Plan9

Laundry is the only thing that should be separated by color.

Racism is such a perpetual motion machine. Makes me sick.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

abaya

They could have just made it green or something, really.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Randle2I

As a black man I personally think that the vast majority of black people do in fact need to lighten up, and perhaps even more need to buckle down. We, as a group, are quick to call each other nigger this & nigger that and then try to justify it by saying that "It's not meant in a derogatory way", but as soon as a white person says it, no matter what the intention the guns are drawn & the race card is pulled. That's what most people define as "hypocritical" or what could be called a "double standard". Hell, you don't see white people running around calling each other Honkies or Crackers in their music videos. Black people like to complain about the glass ceiling but then drop out of college at a higher rate than whites. An entire generation of blacks is growing up thinking that they are owed retribution for something that didn't happen to them, you're supposed to learn from the past, not dwell on it. I guess that's just the Bill Cosby in me speaking though, but then again he's not a "real black man".

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Here's the link just in case:

Cynthetiq

Seriously though it's people's right to be a clod. It's people's right to be an insensitive prick. It's their right to be an asshole and inconsiderate bastard.

When you start telling people that they need to straighten up and make like you fit it, it makes it harder to see those assholes and distinguish them from the normal good people.

People can have intentions all they want, but it's their actions that show really what they are.

I don't want to have to weed through a bunch of surface bullshit to find out that someone is an asshole. I'd like there to be tangible easily found signs.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

abaya

Randle2I, thanks for your words, and the video. Personally, I agreed quite a bit with Bill Cosby's assertion, but having worked in North and West Philly for a summer, I can see why his words were irrelevant to a large portion of that city's black population. There's reasons they don't consider him to be a "real black man," I suppose... I'm not saying it's valid, but they have their reasons. It's hard to make sense of that, as someone--me, not black, and being from an upper middle-class background--looking in from the outside.
Yes, as I already agreed above... but it's NOT their right to use that as justification for actual discrimination. Period.
Now, I can agree with you on this note.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Willravel

That's true:
It's right there.

Cynthetiq

You know as I read this I thought to myself about the recent "noosings" and such, "what does discrimination mean now?" much along the lines of the hippy thread.

Because you are right, it isn't justifiable to discriminate, but how is a halloween decoration discrminating against them? Because you are making a hostile environment for them to not knock on your door? They still have the choice to knock on the door. I don't see discrmination until they open the door and then say, "White kid, here's candy. Black kid no candy for you."

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Plan9

Hell, everybody knows monsters are green!

...

Hell, somebody would have been offended.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

dirtyrascal7

While I don't think that any of us here are racist, we all probably have a subconscious preference against other races (or perhaps even our own race). The link below (a study done by Harvard) will test that preference:

Black vs. White Test

It's been a while since I took it, but I believe I had a slight biased against blacks. Feel free to post your own results.

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"Tie yourself to your limitless potential, rather than your limiting past."

"Every man I meet is my superior in some way. In that, I learn of him."

Willravel

I have a slight bias against Neocons.

Ustwo

Thought police, well no, perception police.

I have a bias against socialists, its ok, we have the guns.

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Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

The_Jazz

In that case, I'm going to break out my "I'm an asshole" sign to hang around my neck. No noose, though. I'm clumsy.

Imprecise grammar aside, racism is like poverty - it will never go away. Humans continually divide the world into "us" and "them" groups. Race happens to be one of the easier ways to do that.

This story has many of the telltale signs of Tempest In a Teapot Syndrom (TITS for short). The local reverend started it off by making an assumption. Then other people either made the same assumption independently or listen to the reverend's. The homeowners wouldn't have painted it white if they originally intended to send an offensive message. They tried to remedy the problem, but it was too little too late. Hence my TITS comment. The problem is solved - the dummy is no longer black. The idea that it once was offensive seems to mean that it is now.

For the record, having a black face does not necessarily make this racist in and of itself. A body that has been hung in a tree will turn black from the neck up as it decomposes.

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Cynthetiq

and rightly so!

I know each and everyone of us can somehow show up as an asshole to someone else, we cut someone off, we take too long to pull out our wallets at the checkout counter, we talk on the cellphone instead of to the cashier/service worker but those don't count insomuch as these others do.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Ustwo

You hate us both don't you

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

dirtyrascal7

By the way... wasn't there a South Park episode about this?

The children were asked to design a flag, and the flag they designed had a man in a noose on it who happened to have dark skin... Chef took offense to the flag until he realized that the children didn't see the man on the flag as having any race at all.

Edit: Ah, here we go... "Chef Goes Nanners".

__________________
"Tie yourself to your limitless potential, rather than your limiting past."

"Every man I meet is my superior in some way. In that, I learn of him."

Plan9

Color words are silly fun. If I'm white, they're black. Not really accurate.

If I'm European American, they're African American... unless either of us is from Brazil, Australia, or Mongolia.

...

Oh, geography is a stupid way to label skin color!

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Bill O'Rights

Goddamn!! That was funny.

Y'know...let 'em fuss. By the time the gears get moving, in this great bureaucracy of ours, Halloween will have long passed, the turkey bones will have been discarded, the Christmas tree will have lost its luster, the snows will have melted, and the birds will be rejoicing us with their spring songs.

Who cares?

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"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Crack

Wow! Me too! I have seen the greatest minds of my generation destroyed by that damn website... wait, that was Neopets... just a bit of a difference.

I don't have much to add, except people are too quick to take offense at anything, people need to be more like my friend Tom. I was walking into work from my car, and my Asian friend Tom that works in another department is walking with me, it's been cold recently, and I look up at the sky and say "bit of a nip in the air this morning"... he just looks at me for a second and chokes up this massive flehemy loogie and spits it out a good 15 feet in front of us, but before it lands he says "There is now!"

We laughed, then he called me a damn cracker.

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Crack, you and I are long overdue for a vicious bout of mansex.

~Halx

Jenna

Because not everything in life is easy. If you want to apply that, you'd have to do it to all aspects of your life. If people would have had that frame of thought back when there was slavery, we'd still see it today.

Take a look at a history book, the hanging and lynching of slaves and black people have been a terrible reminder of the past. Sure, there is a double-standard here. But, if someone had an Indian hanging outside, people would have the same problem. Or a Jewish person.

Jetée

Are we now labeling our holiday decorations with blatant signs of prejudiced hate against any one race/sub-culture?


No? Then, let it be.


After all, this was but an incident involving holiday ornamentations taken to an extreme that was not there.

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

Ustwo

Maybe the white face hanging ghoul is really Jewish.

Someone should call and complain.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Jenna

I totally agree, I'm a really quite adament about equal rights and the Civil Rights Movement, and to see this really makes me feel bad. Not about black people in general, but the people who are doing this to themselves. I wish their great grandparents who fought for their rights could be there to try to stop them...

Hey, if it was a Muslim man out there, I'm sure as hell there wouldn't be anyone calling about anything. I'm just saying there are touchy subjects out there. I don't think there is anything wrong with decorating for Halloween, but make him look like a dark orc, or a green goblin, etc.

Glory's Sun

Why?? Why can't there be black monsters or goblins?? Wouldn't that be racist?? We'd be leaving out a whole class of people by not having black monsters etc. Then we'd have some other minister complain that black people were being left out of Halloween.

People are so goddamn pissy about everything. They *WANT* to take exception .. they want to start shit.. they want to find racism.

I live in an area where people still use nigger quite often and black people think white people owe them for the past. It's so fucking annoying. If people would just be who they are, life would be alot easier. I'm so sick of people living in the past and using it for justification for the present.

This whole story is about a misunderstanding by someone who wanted to take exception because that person wanted to see a racist statement. I can understand if it had a swastika or other emblem on there or if it was supposed to be an actual black man, but seriously, it's a fucking dummy that happened to be black.

Harden the fuck up is absolutely correct.

So basically, people need to shut the fuck up and find out what really is going on before assuming people are racists or quit being damn up in arms when it's within a person's right to be one.

Fuck the racists.. fuck the bullshitters, fuck the assholes.. no wait.. I'm an asshole.. fuck everyone but me.. how's that?

Halx

Gather 'round everyone, let papa Hal tell you a story of great import!

Y'see, I was walkin' along with my buddies after lunch, heading back to the workplace. My co-worker Jordan is half-black and is never slow to quip a blatantly racist, sexist or generally stupid remark, but today he was on relatively good behavior. In conversation, the subject of fried chicken came about and it sparked my memory of a website I had been browsing.

"That reminds me of this website I was browsing. The domain was 'negrophonic,'" I started.

"Negrophonic, eh? Wish I had thought of that," replied Jordan.

"Well, the background of this website has a bunch of flying watermelons. Watermelon after watermelon."

Jordan chuckled and instantly suggested, "you know what would be better? If went watermelon - chicken - watermelon - chicken."

This of course made me laugh, but no good joke goes unappreciated. Immediately from behind us erupted the angered yelling of a black man in dirty salmon-colored sweat pants and a ragged pair of Uggs.

"Watermelon chicken? Watermelon chicken? Mothafucka, do you know I'll fuck you up?!?"

His following words were not totally clear because I was laughing uncontrollably at this point. My buddies and I were already crossing the street and I was doubling over with hysterical laughter. The man stayed on his side of the street but he yelled after us.

"Watermelon chicken! Mothafucka, you better not come back here. I aint afraid of prison!"

What made it a little more humorous was the fact that he was standing in front of the Manhattan detention complex. So as I was stumbling down the sidewalk, keeled over with glee, that sad example of humanity was strutting perpendicular to us on his side of the street, still yelling.

"Watermelon chicken."

It was funny. Really.


So, the moral of the story is... pride his HILARIOUS.

(As an aside, I'm going to be real blunt here. Of all the people who are loud, obnoxious, thuggish, threatening and generally unpleasant, black people make up 90%. There are some slimy and shitty white, hispanic, indian and asian people, but whenever I'm made to feel uncomfortable because of the outward behavior of another human, 9 times out of 10 that human is black. That's not racist, that's pure happenstance.)

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[Don't Feed The Animals]

abaya

Well, I'd have to say that in a region such as the one where this scene took place, environment counts for something. People (especially children) are not immune to their physical environment, quite the opposite. Otherwise, I mean, do you think it's well and good for someone to burn a cross in their yard, since it's private property and they can do whatever they like? I'd say no, if that was my neighbor (whether or not I was white, black, other), I'd probably raise a fuss, too. And I doubt anyone here would argue my right to do so... but I could be wrong.

The problem here is that hanging a fake body in a tree is certainly not the same as burning a cross in a yard, not by a long shot. But again, as MM said much earlier, *given the local context*... putting a dark-faced body in a noose and hanging it in a tree is still pretty poor judgment, in my opinion. I don't know about the white-faced fake bodies (personally, I find the whole idea of fake-hangings rather disturbing, no matter what color the faces), but yes, even the appearance of hanging a dark-faced man in a public place in that particular region does affect the environment... kids walking by, associating dark faces with being hanged, thinking it's okay... and then growing up to perhaps be the kids who hung nooses in the schoolyard where the Jena 6 event took place. It's not a far stretch, if you ask me, not in that area.

So no, it's not direct discrimination... but I do think it creates an environment that doesn't contribute anything to helping people from different groups to get along better and improve their neighborhood. (Are some groups of blacks guilty of that kind of behavior, too?... in sabotaging their own neighborhood enviroments? Definitely. You won't find argument with me there.) And I am just not a fan of creating negative environments, period. But that is very much my personal bias, I realize that... until I get elected to public office.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Jenna

Monsters and goblins and orcs are all fantasy characters.... they're not people, and they've never existed.

Cynthetiq

My point is that YOU bring the baggage with you. You carry it with you wherever you go and that is how you filter the world. I didn't give it to you by putting up my halloween decoration (i'm not putting any up i'm way too lazy to do so.)



What came to your mind when you saw this photo? KKK?

If you were from Spain you would have exclaimed Nazarenos!!!!

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Jenna

I'm confused...?

Glory's Sun

Exactly.

But that doesn't mean they can't be a certain color. If it's a fantasy character .. which obviously it is since it wasn't a real person hanging, then why should it matter what fucking color it was? It doesn't. Except to idiots who want to see things all one way.

Crack

I am an asshole.

__________________
Crack, you and I are long overdue for a vicious bout of mansex.

~Halx

Jenna

I didn't see a full picture of it, the one that I did see, was from far away and you could only see it's back. Now, if it in fact, did look like a black person hanging, then yes, I think the NAACP and black community has all the right to be upset. If it doesn't, then I think it's an over-reaction.

Glory's Sun

They do have the right to be upset.. just as that person has a right to hang the display for halloween in their yard.

They also have the right to inquire about the situation before making assumptions and a huge deal over nothing.

It's halloween..people put up macbre decorations.. people should know that by now. I understand and see the "poor taste" argument.. but people have a right to poor taste just as much as good taste; *IF* that's even viable in this article.. which I think isn't.

dirtyrascal7

Well said!

Actually, it took me a second to even see the man in the hood... I was trying to figure out what professional sport that trophy was from. lol

(It's been a long week)

__________________
"Tie yourself to your limitless potential, rather than your limiting past."

"Every man I meet is my superior in some way. In that, I learn of him."

The_Jazz

I am Spartacus.

And an asshole.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Cynthetiq

Here's a better photo of Nazarenos from Sevilla Spain



Again, instantly KKK?

Of course not knowing that they are penitents trying to absolve sins for Holy Week.

jenna, my point is that YOU have any filters, that's the example since you stated seeing something like this makes YOU feel bad about this situation taking into consideration the history YOU are adding to it.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Ustwo

Why do I think we would see a very different reaction to this statement if I posted this

Sadly this is my experience as well, I try not to dwell on it beyond the incidents itself though.

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Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Halx

I was careful with my wording. I wanted to state that not all black people are this way, just that of all the people who are this way, most are black.

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abaya

Cyn, you're proving my point exactly. This is what I was talking about with regards to environment, in a particular region. Sure, those white-hooded dudes are harmless *in their particular context,* (in this case, Spain) which does NOT consider them to be threatening figures whatsoever. However, put them in a different context, that of the American South, and YES, they white hood give much offense, and rightly so. This is where something called cultural relativism (anthro 101) comes in. You look at something IN ITS OWN CONTEXT before you even get close to judging it.

What you are doing is projecting something completely out of its own context, and testing Jenna by asking what her interpretation is, *based on her own context.* I don't see how this helps prove any point of yours, to be honest, and I don't see its relevance to the OP's issue at all. The article is not about a fake body being hung up in a tree in Spain, or Norway, or wherever... and the NAACP get pissy about it from the US... which would, indeed, be absurd (which is the analogy you seem to attempting to make). The issue is about a fake body, very similar to a lynched one, being hung up in a very particular area of the American south, which has a very particular history and context, where YES, the imagery DOES still have power. I mean, come on! Is it really so hard to understand?!?! Seriously, WTF people.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

analog

Heck of a thread we've got here.

Someone finds something offensive. You don't think it is, as it wasn't intended that way- you insist it remain, because you find the posturing of the other side to be ludicrous.

Now... is it so terrible to just take down the damn decoration? People say and do things that offend others all the time, having no idea they would offend. Is it really that important that you win every argument about what you intended that you can't just take a fucking chill pill and take it down? Is it really hurting anything?

It's not like we're talking about making a statement or observation that means something to you. It's not like you were making an expression of your right to free speech on some subject of personal/religious/political/etc. importance, and someone asked you to stop because it offended them. This isn't a war against free speech, it's a holiday decoration. If someone is so would up on a halloween decoration that they instantly go into hardcore-defense-of-my-rights mode, their priorities in life are seriously out of whack (unless we're talking about some decoration/religion thing, but then that's more about the religious aspect and not merely the decoration).

Having said that- anyone who sees that someone else truly meant no offense by doing or saying something, and insists it remain because nothing was intended, then grow a thicker skin and get over yourself already. The rest of the world does not exist to placate to your delicate sensibilities. We're not all walking around just waiting for the next opportunity to apologize for the next minor slip that shatters your glass house and rips your thin skin from head to toe.

Both sides need to have a little bit more respect for themselves. Feelings of insecurity and victimization are what cause a lot of this posturing to begin with.

Jack The Lad

'All we need is a voluntary, free-spirited, open-ended program of procreative racial deconstruction. Everybody just gotta keep fuckin' everybody 'til they're all the same color.' Bulworth (1998)

It would make things so much simpler, wouldn't it?

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