Double D

I'd like to see better labeling on food in restaurants.
Anyone remember when there was no nutritional info on food bought at the grocery store?
I'd also like to see the pushing for people to *super size it,* go away.
It's simply done in the name of profit.
Most people don't realize that having a burger is an entire meal. Having the fries (of any size) too, is over-eating.
-------------------------------------------

By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Correspondent

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Whose fault is it if you are fat? Yours, or the food industry's?

A U.S. House of Representatives panel heard emotional testimony on Thursday about a proposed law aimed at protecting restaurants against lawsuits from
people who blame fast-food marketing for their obesity.

Critics say it would put the food industry in a special, protected category.

But supporters of the bill say it is time to put an end to frivolous
lawsuits and to make people take responsibility for their own bad eating habits.

The law, proposed by Florida Republican Rep. Ric Keller, would limit lawsuits against the food industry. "This ridiculous trend of lawsuit Lotto in America needs to stop," Keller told the sparsely attended hearing.

"The trial lawyers have decided that restaurants will be the next big tobacco. It's time to stop them in their tracks before they destroy the food industry."

But two lawyers told the hearing that such protection is not necessary.

"If, as the industry repeatedly claims, these fat law suits are truly
frivolous, the industry needs no Congressional protection," said John Banzhaf, a professor of law at George Washington University, whose 1970s crusades against the tobacco industry helped get cigarette commercials off the air.

LAWSUITS FORCE CHANGES

"Numerous articles and reports show that the threat of fat lawsuits has already forced many food companies to begin making significant changes likely to reduce obesity such as healthier menu alternatives, better ingredient disclosure, appropriate warnings, etc."

McDonald's is fighting a lawsuit alleging the company promoted its
calorie-laden food as being nutritious enough to eat every day.

Victor Schwartz, head of the public policy group of the law firm Shook, Hardy and Bacon, and general counsel of the American Tort Reform Association, said it would be hard for a plaintiff to prove a restaurant caused his obesity.

"First, if traditional rules are followed, the plaintiff is going to have to show that it is more probable than not that his or her obesity was caused by food, not by failure to exercise or other lifestyle choices, or genetics," he said.

"Second, the plaintiff will have to show that one specific purveyor of food caused his injury."

The World Health Organization (news - web sites) says obesity is a growing epidemic across the world. Two-thirds of Americans are either overweight or obese, with a higher risk of heart disease, cancer and diabetes.

The restaurant industry argues that it is a lack of exercise and not diet that is causing the problem.

Advocacy groups say restaurants need to be forced into more clearly labeling their foods so people know just how fattening they are, and should make portions smaller.

uncle phil

i fail to see the nexus between food and tobacco...

__________________
"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara
-----------------------------------------
"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
-----------------------------------------
never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.

sixate

I'm sooo tired of hearing people blaming a company/restaurant for being obese. Look in the mirror. That's all it takes to see who's to blame. I think restaurants should be protected from weak people with no self control who feed their mouths until their stomach is ready to explode. Everybody knows that fast food is bad. If you live off of the crap then how can you expect to not gain weight. Then on top of that 80% of people get ZERO exercise. Even worse look at all the people who smoke, drink too much, and do drugs. Fuck, I'm surprised that some drug addicts aren't suing the shit outa drug dealers for ruining their lives.

ARTelevision

As you may know, I am very much in favor of holding fast food marketing in some part responsible for obesity.

I'm also not much of a believer in the myth of personal responsibility. It sounds good and is a useful way to live for those who are strong enough to master it. But to believe that the majority of people are strong enough to resist the massively funded, psychologically engineered manipulation of big media marketing is to be callous and ignorant to the the sad truth of human capability and, in the end, to be an unrealistic idealist and ideologue.

__________________
create evolution

gov135

Obese people = increased heart disease, diabetes (which leads to many problems), bone structure problems, respiration probelms, the list goes on and on. Who pays for the treatment of these people who can't control themsleves? We do - wither directly through taxes that pay for Medicare or Medicaid or indirectly through higher insurance premiums.

Double D

ART, you put into words what I was sitting here attempting to write. You did it so much more eloquently, though. Thank you.

rockzilla

It's no secret that fast food is bad for you, yet it continues to sell. Even if McDonalds were forced to tell you that a super-size value meal will account for about 75% of your daily caloric intake, while providing nothing in terms of nutritional value, do you think it would dent their sales one bit? People will continue to drive through, super-size it, sit on their asses and then wonder why they've put on 40 pounds. "But it's not my fault!" is the catchphrase of the day, nobody is willing to take responsibility for their own lives. If you go to McDonalds every day, you've got to notice when you've put on a few more pounds before it gets to the point that you're dangerously obese.

I'm not saying that fast food is completely without blame. Marketing any fast food product as healthy is akin to marketing cocaine as "Crack Light". But it seems every month or so, a new study revealing the dangerous chemical additives, growth hormones, or other health hazards associated with fast food makes it's way into the news. Anyone who is so oblivious to not see any of this posseses a dangerous amount of ignorance that should not be rewarded with million dollar lawsuit payoffs.

krwlz

People who sue over shit like this, are the ones that make me lose faith in humanity

Tirian

I gotta weigh in (no pun intended) with the folks who say weight gain is a personal responsibility.

The information is out there. Are people not responsible for educating themselves anymore ? Do you believe everything you see on a television advertisement ?

check out this ... almost all chain fast food places have one.... Ignorance is no excuse for the law including the law of nature.

http://www.mcdonalds.com/countries/u...trition/index.

gibber71

I don't buy this arguement at all.Personal responsibility isn't a myth,it is a lifestyle choice.One of the reasons people succumb to big media marketing is because they are lazy and have become complacent to the point where they have little regard for personal pride.

People have the choice to decide what they do and what they put into their bodies.If they are so lacking in intelligence that they parade around as puppets or psychologically engineered robots,then they deserve every pitfall that comes their way regarding their chosen lifestyles.

In this day and age,if people can't make decisions for themselves and chose to be ruled by mass marketing,then that is their problem and they are solely to blame for it.

Glory's Sun

Amen brotha My thoughts were similar to this. I'm sick of people trying to find a way out of things. Sure the fast food companies advertise. It helps bring people in so they can make profit; but the fact is they don't FORCE you to eat their food. If you know it's bad why eat it? It's like drugs you know they can be harmful so you don't use them. Doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure it out.

BBtB

Okay, listen, if you do not know that fast food is incredibly fatening then please come to my house. I shall beat you with a stick because you are a DUMBASS! Now, I tend to agree with Arts statement but not his conclusion. Most people are stupid and weak. They posses no will power or are just to lazy to use it. I just don't think it should be McDonalds job to regulate these people. It shouldn't be the US goverments job to keep these people alive when they are eating themselves to death either. I wouldn't mind forcing them to be a little more open and clear about the nutrional information. Maybe actully forcing people to take the info (Because its on their website even though the above link is dead, I have seen it in their restaurants both in little sheets of paper that listed ALL their food and the nutrional info and I have seen it all the wall at one but that is obviously not enough) Still though, EVERYONE knows or, should know, that fast food is unhealthy.

__________________
Meridae'n once played "death" at a game of chess that lasted for over two years. He finally beat death in a best 34 out of 67 match. At that time he could ask for any one thing and he could wish for the hope of all mankind... he looked death right in the eye and said ...

"I would like about three fiddy"

Tirian

BBtB that is so weird that the link does not work.

I just went to www.mcdonalds.com, and clicked "search".

Then I searched for "nutrition" and selected the 7th link.

I just did it again and the link was good, so they must just be blocking external linking or something. Simply follow the above clicks to get there.

BBtB

Here is a direct link to the above http://www.mcdonalds.com/countries/u...ion/index.html

Tirian the reason it didn't work is you deleted the .html at the end.

__________________
Meridae'n once played "death" at a game of chess that lasted for over two years. He finally beat death in a best 34 out of 67 match. At that time he could ask for any one thing and he could wish for the hope of all mankind... he looked death right in the eye and said ...

"I would like about three fiddy"

SiN

mhm..thats an interesting view, and if i think about it, i find i do agree to a certain extent...especially this bit -

i've always been a pretty strong believer in personal responsibility...but, i wonder if i'm being narrow-minded in think ing that? i'm a very responsible person, i was raised that way, and also independent and such, so i've always been pretty able to think for myself and ignore as best as i can the silly 'messages' in the media and all that crap...and i readily take responsibility for whatever situation i'm in (sometimes to an extreme, but that's another story...).
anyways, i guess i've always just thought 'it's easy' and so everyone should be able to be like that.
but perhaps not, i wonder if i'm just one of the lucky ones.
and i'm only able to really understand from my perspective, which seems to not quite match the majority of Americans.

i dunno...

on the other hand, i totally hate the idea of sueing over this kind of crap, and all that sort of bullshit. people playing the 'it's not my fault' game...bleh. hate that.

hmm. good thread. good discussion.

__________________

Jesus Pimp

I think don't anyone will give a shit if you put labeling on food in resturaunts. Seriously what good has it done in grocery stores besides make certain interest groups happy? People simply don't give a shit and continue to gorge themselves with junk food.

__________________
Never date anyone who doesn't make your dick hard.

SiN

overgeneralization.

i'm one of those people who's nearly fanatical about checking my labels, mostly for calorie/fat content.

people in the US are lucky, here in Germany not all things are labeled. it's not required like it is in the US.

__________________

Jesus Pimp

You're part of the "certain interest group" Anyway lables aren't going to stop people from getting obease. People and companies need to promote eating healthy.

__________________
Never date anyone who doesn't make your dick hard.

SiN

agreed.

__________________

Double D

I _so_ disagree with this statement. Anyone with any interest in their health reads the labels on the food they eat. In truth, anyone with a dedicated interest in their health doesn't need to read the labels, because they don't eat pre-packaged food!
But like most folks, I'm imperfect so I do partake, and you'd better believe that I read the label before I buy/consume it.

Go to the grocery store on a Saturday, especially. Just hang around and look at what people, especially women (who constitute the majority of the US population- and I'm guessing the majority of grocery shoppers) are doing before they purchase their food. Lots of them read the labels first.

The labeling of the nutritional content of foods has made us better informed consumers- as a whole - not just *certain interest groups.*

rockzilla

I'll agree that the popuation is much better informed than even 5 years ago, yet obesity is on the rise. We may have all the information necessary to eat healthily, but that doesn't mean that we're doing anything about it. With obesity statistics being roughly the same between men and women (about 5% more men are overweight, about 8% more women are obese, and 3% more women are severely obese). Taken from the American Obesity Association. They may be reading the labels, but either they don't understand them or don't put the information into practice. You can buy the lowest calorie cookies on the shelf, but you'll still put on the pounds if you eat the whole box.
It's also interesting to note that obesity is inversely proportional to education level (the less schooling someone's had, the more likely they are to be obese) Someone who never finished high school doesn't stand a chance of understanding nutritional fact sheets and creating a balanced diet without some outside help and close surveillance.
A healthy diet is only half of the equation though. 60% of Americans don't excercise enough, and 25% don't excercise at all. The Center for Disease Control recommends 1/2 hour of walking, 5 times a week as enough excercise, with the amount of excercise once again decreasing with lower levels of education.
Whew, looks like I ended up writing a small essay, so in conclusion, stay in school, and if you're gonna go to McDonalds, at least bike there.

The Answer Man

I agree with the previous posters: how can it NOT be your fault if YOU stuff YOUR face with fatty foods, when you know it's bad for you? Come *on*. This is in no way the food industry's fault. Take responsability for your own life, and if you're to lazy to, well, don't come complaining about it. I don't understand how it has gotten to the point where people seem unable to think for themselves anymore.

Anyways, here in Sweden all products in stores are labelled according to law. They don't list that kind of thing in the menu at a resturant (which is good, imho). But then again, we don't have such a large problem with obesity over here.

__________________
I don't have enough imagination for sig.

Janie

Chalk me up for another believer in personal responsibility. Perhaps I don't understand the urge to eat that some people have, or their misunderstanding of the nature of food (just becase it's low in calories, eating a barrel of it isn't going to do you any good, as rockzilla stated). Or perhaps I have common sense on my side....

__________________
cheers to the motherland

ARTelevision

SiN,
Your willingness to even consider my view is appreciated and speaks well for your open-mindedness.

My real point is there's a very big self-righteous factor in the standard positions folks take on issues like this. It makes people feel good to take a position which makes them sound all strong and solid about their own ability to resist advertising.

(The fact that they are often soft touches to many ad pitches for products which they think they want or need is not the issue here. That would rise to the level of self-righteousness as a cover for hypocrisy and I'm not touching that at the moment.)

I just don't feel anything is gained by granting people big props for making themselves feel good by taking positions like this - positions which don't reflect any comprehension of the true state of the population and it's general inability to resist multi-million dollar behavioral modification engineering; positions which ignore the statistics; positions which ignore the fact that it is children who are most at risk because they are targeted most highly and succumb most readily; positions which don't deal with the latest studies that reveal fully 1/3 of the nation's youth will suffer from obesity related diabetes before they reach adulthood; and positions which, when this is even acknowledged at all immediately blame bad parenting - another scapegoat that ignores the reality that children are raised by cultures not by parents.

This type of self-righteous, feel-good stand will never do a thing to improve our culture or our population. It is rampant today, because people who are themselves brainwashed are taking their last sad stand against ever admitting the fact that they have lost the battle...

__________________
create evolution

BBtB

I am sorry but I DO blame parents. I mean maybe if they drug their kids away from the tv for awhile and shoved a (preferably classic) book in their hands they wouldn't be subject to so many of these mind controling devices.

I do agree that, sadly so, most people just let the sea of culture push them around in the tide. I do however think that, as either one of these rare strong willed people who are able to ignore advertising as a whole or one of the arrogant ones who just denies its hold, we shouldn't be protecting all these people who are just to damn ignorant for their own good. I mean what IS the solution here? Do we allow all these people, who are eating themselves to death either out of Ignorance,stupidity or laziness, to become millionaires and run a (semi) legit business to the gound? Of course I also don't think people should be suing the tobacco industry.

__________________
Meridae'n once played "death" at a game of chess that lasted for over two years. He finally beat death in a best 34 out of 67 match. At that time he could ask for any one thing and he could wish for the hope of all mankind... he looked death right in the eye and said ...

"I would like about three fiddy"

gibber71

To an extent I agree but would I go so far as to say we are brainwashed and controlled by mass marketing. Maybe,maybe not.If I need something,I'll buy it.I don't need constant advertising to tell me what to buy.

To be fair though,the barrage of advertising does influence people to think if they want or need something.Take a look at grocery store flyers.One may have enough soup in their cupboards but see a good deal and buy more.They might even look for more deals when they necessarily wouldn't have.Is advertising working in this instant? Sure it is.Will people remember the store doing the advertising? You bet they will.

But the defining line is if people decide to buy something or not in which they are being made aware of. Everyone is susceptable to mass media marketing and are bombarded with the daily barrage of everything available to man.We can't escape that. But just because of this bombardment, it doesn't mean we are completely brainwashed.

We can run off a thousand company names we are all aware of,but do we all collectively subscribe to them? Some people do,some people don't. Again in fairness,if the day does come in which we purchase something because we remember the advertising of a certain company,then the advertising has worked. Often times it is not the want or need for something,but the neccecity of our purchase.

I'm not defending mass marketing,but it is the people who think they want and need whatever the product being advertised is. Is this marketing very clever to the point where in most cases it seems as though people can't live without the product being advertised? Sadly,but yes. But the onus is still on the consumer to say yes or no to whatever is influencing them. The ultimate decision rests with them.

Sidenote--One possible solution is to legislate supposed fair advertising practices.I think some measures are already in place but the fold is being stretched greatly.There is a difference(flagrant at times) between showing hit,happy people and families being portrayed as the norm eating in some shit restaurant and the local businessman advertising his computer specials or furniture deals of the week to the consumer.Sure the later may put hip,happy people in their commercials too, but I don't think it is as grossly misrepresentative as the former.

sixate

I don't think I'll ever agree with you on this one art. You basically say that parents have nothing to do with their kids being obese and becoming diabetic. If parents were doing their jobs properly they would make sure that their kids ate a well balanced diet. When I see a fat kid I want to punch the parents because what it comes down to is the parents don't know how to tell their kids NO, and they just give in to every little dumb thing the child wants. I don't think that has anything to do with environment.

Obviously, fast food places advertise and target kids, but every object we buy has a target so how is food different? That's a no brainer, but if parents weren't so damn lazy they would teach their kids what is good and bad for them. When I drive in a busy area where I live i see 6 gyms in a 5 mile stretch of the road. They all advertise on TV and in the paper almost as much as fast food places. So why are so many people overweight? It's rather simple. It's 100 times easier to be lazy than it is to work hard. People are lazy. End of story, and I'll never feel sorry for the weak.

gariig

This topic brings up a lot problems with our society and how we do things. One problem with the guy sueing..you don't need millions of dollars! You need about 100K to go to a fat camp for six months and learn to eat a proper diet and join Weight Watchers.

As far as labeling, it only helps if you are conscious of it and know how to take that information and apply it. As stated before, it's great you bought Snackwells at 10 calories a cookie, but going home and eating the bag with "no-sugar" added gallon of vanilla isn't healthy. Also, companies mislabel there food as healthy. Being "Low Fat" doesn't mean it is healthy. For example, Bennigan's(a family type resteraunt and pub) has a "Fit" dessert that is only 6g of fat. That is great, know how many calories? 1000 plus. That isn't healthy! Most people can only eat 1800-2400 calories a day! Super sizing is another problem, you can add almost 700 calories to a meal for 30 cents!

What we need done is several different things. One advertising does need to be changed. We need fat people eating a Big Mac on our commercials, not some skinny little twerp. I think that gives the illusion of being healthy, "If they are fit and eating a Big Mac, so can I" problem. Public schools NEED to teach proper nutrition, I'm not talking something stupid and easy like the food pyramid..I'm talking fool out calorie counting, how to e xercise, and reading information labels. Also, resteraunts need to advertise calorie counts for their food. An Awesome Blossom (its an onion that is battered and fried) at Chili's has something like 2500 plus calories in it!

Most importantly, people just need to want to be thin and diet and take pride in their lives. If you don't have pride for yourself, no government is going to give or teach you too.

Gariig

Double D

This type of aggressive thought pattern is REALLY frightening.

Double D

Several times, Snackwells brand has been used as an example. *No-fat* cookies are not worth eating. Better to have 2 regular cookies and be satisfied. In re: eating a gallon of ice cream, do you truly believe that this is what an average fat person does? How many fat people are you aquainted with?

It's commendable that you seem to have an almost encyclopedic knowledge of fat & calorie counts. However, only living things can be healthy. Food can be healthful or unhealthful.

It's great too, that you have a purpose for fat people.

This is not realistic in the current environment of the American school systems- they are not going to find money for the suggestions you make, when they are in the midst of laying off teachers and cutting out art, music & gym class. A suggestion I think could be implemented is replacing unhealthful vending machine items in the schools with more healthful fare ( juices, water, fruit, crackers).

Er, I'm confused, which is it that you want, labeling or no labeling?

If it's this easy to get thin, don't you think more people would be?

So this whole thing is a question of *pride?* How does a fat person get this pride, when there are a slew of *people,* that feel that a fat person is a weak-willed, stupid person?

Tophat665

Of course it's my fault that I am fat. Don't be silly. I eat too much, I drink too much, and I drive a desk all day and read all night. That said, if they want to tax me more because of it, I submit that my obesity costs this country far less than the backwards-ass medieval beliefs that pass of religion in vast swathes of this country (and this country's government.)

Tax self-righteousness.

You can have my Quarter Pounder with Cheese when you pry it from my cold, dead hand.

__________________
Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

sixate

I can understand why you'd say that, but don't you find it frightening that many parents have zero control over their kids? To me that's frightening.

rogue49

You are an adult.
You should know what is good for you and bad.
Take responsibility for your decisions.

If you cave into cravings & convenience,
Then you have no one to blame but yourself.

When going for a pizza, or a Quarter Pounder
you are kidding yourself, if you think you are getting a good nutritional value.
It is filling and it tastes good, that's why you're buying it.
This is not right or wrong, just fact.
But this is YOUR choice.

It's a no brainer; understand the consequence of your actions & choices.
Its part of being a grown up.

Why should the government have to hold your hand,
and say "no, no, no....you know this is bad for you."
Get real.
We have better things to legislate.

XenuHubbard

It should depend on the marketing employed by the company.
The CEO of McDonald's in Sweden was on TV and claimed that a Big Mac meal was a perfectly healthy and balanced part of a diet, as long as "you have a salad or something for dinner".

But personal responsibility is also a great part of this.
And I kind of agree with Sixate. I'm a smoker. I know it's bad. I have no right to sue anybody. But my grandmother should be able to; she's a smoker, and was one when the tobacco companies knew it was bad, but nobody else did.

And hey, all you Scientologists out there, keep smoking.
L. Ron Hubbard "proved" that smoking prevents lung cancer.

__________________
The above was written by a true prophet. Trust me.

"What doesn't kill you, makes you bitter and paranoid". - SB2000

lurkette

I'm hearing a couple of different ideas here and I don't think they're necessarily mutually exclusive:

Art et al. are saying that lack of personal responsibility is not the only reason for obesity. People are bombarded every day by ads for food that looks and tastes good but that is horrible for their health, with no mention of consequences.

Pretty much everyone else is saying that people should know fast food is bad for them and if you eat it to the point where you get fat, it's your own damn fault.

I think both of these lines of thinking are true - it's up to the individual to decide what he or she eats, (or what their kids eat) but it's incredibly difficult to make healthy choices in the face of SO much temptation, and a lack of information about food content and appropriate nutrition. I see no reason why people shouldn't eat fast food once in a while. Face it, McDonald's fries are yummy. I ate some for lunch yesterday. But then I had a salad for dinner. I definitely think that food producers should be held responsible for providing accurate nutritional information about their products (claiming that a Big Mac Meal is healthy and balanced is laughable; again, once in a blue moon won't hurt you but if you're eating it every day you're probably going to put on some poundage), but that people should also be held responsible for making healthy choices. If a person has all the information they need about how to lose weight/not gain weight (more calories out than in, healthy balance of fats/carbs/protein) and they still choose not to eat healthily, there's not much you can do about it, and I don't see why someone else should be to blame. Since obesity is really a public health crisis in the US at this point, we ought to expect everyone, fast food and other food manufacturers included, to make it as easy as possible for people to make healthy choices, regardless of the impact on the company's bottom line.

__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

Double D

Love it. Great bumper sticker idea.

From your stance, it sounds as if as a child you had the experience of being under complete control by your parents.
How was that done? Instilling respect (if so, how ?) Harsh punishment? Fear?
How do you plan to have complete control over your children, if you choose to have them?

I breast fed both my children- which some studies say tends to result in kids with less of a chance of getting fat.
That was the only time I had any semblance of complete control over what they ate. When food is offered to a baby, he/she can chose to eat it or not.
*Not* means spitting it back at you - repeatedly. As they grow, they become more involved in their food choices and very much more influenced by all around them.

I was a divorced mom - no child support- trying to better myself through college education.
We were poor (subsidized housing, food stamps, et al.)
Even then, things like fresh fruits & vegetables, lean cuts of meat, cost a lot. Try filling up your grocery cart with them now and see what your bill is.
I did keep healthful foods in the house, but about twice a month, my son and I walked to Wendy's, about a half mile away, because he either enjoyed the food or wanted their current promotional kids meal item.
The point is, it was a special treat going out for a meal together, that I'd scraped together $5 to buy us.
Another poster in this thread cited Bennigans and other restaurants of that price range. My son and I never saw the inside of that type of restaurant for a number of years, unless it was someone else's treat.

Fast food is cheap...that is partially why there is a connection between low income folks & fat.

Originally posted by lurketteComment on the on the much quoted *public health crisis.*

Personal example: I carried a lot of weight at several points in my life. Unless I was desperately ill, I wouldn't see a doctor because whether I had the flu or an earache, it was BECAUSE (I WAS) FAT. A visit to the doctor's office meant belittlement & shame. Trust me, things have not changed. Many fat folks do not seek treatment for diabetic symptoms for ex., because they are afraid of the stupid-ass doctor. So the fat person lets their health condition worsen, until it IS a crisis.

I agree that being fat is not an optimal condition for one's body- certainly it is not good for one's psyche, given the rampant anti-fat hysteria (found right here on these boards.)

But do you all think fat people want to be fat? That it is simple to lose weight and KEEP IT OFF?

Not a single diet has proven, long-term (5 years plus) benefits.

Even self-mutilation through bariatric surgery, Fobi pouch, etc. only has about a 25% success rate long-term and they come with a host of permanent side effects, not to mention it is major surgery, not covered by insurance (that's if a person has health insurance).

Only 5-10% of people who lose weight, have kept it off long term. Weight Watcher's average weight loss per individual over 2 years is 6 pounds.

BBtB

Okay I feel the need to step in for sixate real quick and mention that I do not think he ment TOTAL control over kids so much as SOME control. Its true too. Parents today are showing less and less control over their own kids. Harsh punishment is unneeded (except in rare cases) but punishment IS. To many parents today see telling their children to go to their room or to go sit in the corner as harsh punishment. Instilling respect? Thats a good place to start. On how so.. How about being a respectful person. Thats all it would have taken my parents despite they are not really.

While you can't ever have COMPLETE 100% control. You can sure have 98.65% control. I mean up untill your child goes to school you SHOULD be buying almost all of what they eat. The only exception at that point is while they are at a babysitter. And if its a babysitter you use alot YES I would recommend seeing what they are feeding them. If its something you disaprove of then tell the babysitter that. Bring food from home if you have to. Once they start going to school you should still have alot of control. You can still control breakfast and dinner and if you really want you can make them brown bag it for lunch. They may not be the most popular kid in school but they also wont have a heartattack at 30.

In the end though you are right. You can't be there all the time. But you can instill the little bit of knoweldge of consequences for their actions.

__________________
Meridae'n once played "death" at a game of chess that lasted for over two years. He finally beat death in a best 34 out of 67 match. At that time he could ask for any one thing and he could wish for the hope of all mankind... he looked death right in the eye and said ...

"I would like about three fiddy"

Double D

My own quote:
I edited this to express myself more as I'd intended. Thank you, BBtB for your comments.

sixate

My mom did have control of my environment when I was a kid. She kept things away from me that were bad for me. She was smart enough to do that without harsh punishment or fear. I was never hit in my life by either one of my parents. A good parent doesn't have to hit their kids. She taught me respect through a lot of patience. I probably won't have kids because I don't have the patience and I'm way too selfish. I wouldn't bring a kid into the world until that changes.

My mom was also divorced and didn't have much money. Actually, if it wasn't for my grandparents letting me and my sister live with them I would have been homeless for about a year. So that's no excuse either. My mom lived in a hotel and still spent every evening with me and my sister. She cooked a good meal every single day no matter what. No excuses ever. Of course we had pizza and crap like that at times. Everyone does, but it didn't happen much. The problem is most parents take the easy "cheap" way out. How can a parent say that they care about their children when they take the "cheap" way out every single day? Let's face it. There are a ton of parents that do that.

Even after all the stuff that my mom did my sister turned out to be a lazy blob. So maybe I don't know shit. Or maybe my sister has always been a lazy pile of crap. That sounds about right. I've known that ever since I was a kid. At least my sister doesn't put the blame elsewhere.

Double D

sixate, your mom sounds like a great mom. You speak very tenderly of her. You sound like a terrific son. Thank you for taking the time to reply.