Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community (https://thetfp.com/tfp/)
-   General Discussion (https://thetfp.com/tfp/general-discussion/)
-   -   You or the Government: Who should protect you? (https://thetfp.com/tfp/general-discussion/125360-you-government-who-should-protect-you.html)

Cynthetiq 10-08-2007 05:48 AM

You or the Government: Who should protect you?
 
Quote:

Dangerous Sealer Stayed on Shelves After Recall   click to show 

With all the recalls as of late from toys to ground beef, bagged salad to baby carriages, how are you to protect you and your family? Is the government responsible? the companies? you?

Personally, I'm not sure when it comes to chemical items such as this sealer product. I'm always leery of any chemical based items and generally don't like to use them if I can avoid it. I'm happy to pay someone to do the work and let them take the risk or at least have better exposure as to what items are risky when it comes to household chemicals. I even recently stopped using Liquid Plumbr and now use a small auger/snake to clean out the drainage system.

Food is an interesting point for me as I've been studying the food industry for the past 2 years and I'm amazed at what I've discovered. From the manufacturing and distribution, I'm seeing these massive food recalls because major manufacturers are consolidated and distribute their base products across multiple factories.

I already don't buy too much processed food products when it comes to meat included items. My biggest worry is that I do eat out a considerable amount and I cannot vouch for where they are getting their meat products.

I don't think that the government can do much to protect me but to just get the word out. Somehow though I need to be able to see this information easily, simply, and regularly.

highthief 10-08-2007 06:03 AM

Unless you are growing your own food, it's pretty well impossible to completely protect yourself against known hazards.

I think the various regulations and potential punishments (from fines to lawsuits) tend to keep the majority of food producers in line.

ratbastid 10-08-2007 06:53 AM

To answer the question in the title (though not actually posed in the OP), I think it's clearly the government's responsibility to protect citizens against injuries caused by faulty products. One way that can happen is through damages recovered through the civil court. Product regulation is another way. The market just isn't successful at self-regulating this sort of thing.

Not to threadjack, but... I really wish my government would put the effort spent protecting me from terrorism into protecting me from foodborne illness or injury from faulty products. I'm VASTLY more likely to have my lungs burned by grout sealer than I am to be hurt by anything a terrorist might do.

ubertuber 10-08-2007 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid
roduct regulation is another way. The market just isn't successful at self-regulating this sort of thing.

Not only that, but market correction is generally reactive rather than proactive. These are the sorts of problems I'd rather take care of BEFORE people get hurt.

Val_1 10-08-2007 09:06 AM

Thankfully, Gov't intervention is rarely needed, and companies do take it upon themselves to perform voluntary recalls of dangerous products. They are aware how harmful bad press and a lawsuit can be. And, as hightheif pointed out, you would need to maintain a pretty sizable database at home to protect yourself against every known harmful agent out there.

mixedmedia 10-08-2007 09:29 AM

Just like with government regulation of workplace safety and waste disposal/management, govermental oversights of industry have always been enacted for a reason. Because industry's interests differ from those of consumers/employees/surrounding communities and the balance of power to cause change is very uneven.

I believe that government should take an active role in protecting US citizens from the excesses of industry at all levels.

Willravel 10-08-2007 09:39 AM

This is an excellent case against people who have a similar view to, say, Ron Paul, who tell us that government regulation doesn't work. Without the FDA, who's to prevent things like poison in food? While I recognize that the current incarnation of the FDA has very serious issues with inability, whether that can be attributed to gross misconduct, mismanagement, or simply not having enough funds and personnel.

I do very seriously believe that regulation of products is absolutely necessary, and that the corporations of the country and the world, if left to their own devices, would not regulate themselves. I do believe, based on precedence, that many corporations are satisfied to put profit above the welfare of not only the public, but their own customers. To anyone who would sell a stick filled with carcinogens and addictive chemicals that they know to cause cancer is proof in and of itself.

albania 10-08-2007 09:54 AM

Yea but cigarettes are cool as is evident by James Bond smoking.


Anyway, should there be more government control on food and other commercial goods? Maybe, a case can be made for it, but certainly the world today isn't Upton Sinclair's world. I guess then it's a matter of degree. What level of risk are you willing to accept vs how big of government do you really want? Some things are going to be risky no matter what. I prefer to accept the fallibility of manufactures of food and other products as one of those risks that never really goes away. So from my point of view it's best just not to think about it.

The_Jazz 10-08-2007 10:41 AM

Companies have a duty not to put hazardous products into the marketplace.

The vast majority of companies are responsible and accomplish exactly that. One thing that I noted as I read the article was the mislabeling. That is a big part of whether or not a product is hazardous. Wood chippers, for instance, are very obviously harmful products if misused. If, for instance, you stand on the loading bed of a running wood chipper and kick brush into it while a truck is towing the chipper down a road (3 HUGE no-no's in the user manual), then it is not the company's responsibility if all your family has to bury is a sponge.

Material Safety Data Sheets provide the expected results of human exposure to any given substance, from complex petrochemicals down to water. From the article, it looks like those were ignored by the manufacturer. That is a huge problem.

As for the recall, it was an uninsured loss (almost certainly), so no one stepped forward with the money to pay for it. Everyone drug their heels to get the other guy to pay for it, and more people got hurt. Bodily injuries are very insurable, and these folks all have actionable causes against Home Depot and the manufacturer, along with anyone else involved. It's interesting (to me) that Home Depot has a notoriously competent risk management department and that they didn't react better to this, especially given that it seems their name appeared on the product.

There are a number of product liability attorney's salivating over this. The ignored recall just adds to the projected payouts here.

In terms of government involvement, I think that the CPSC needs to be better funded, but that the first line of responsibility should still lie with either the manufacturer or importer. In my world of insurance (and this is very very close to what I do), importers are viewed as manufacturers unless a series of very strict tests are met. As an importer, you need to know whether or not the product you are bringing in is dangerous and what is in it. Not bothering to find out (I'm looking at you RC2) is just moronic, especially when the tests to do so are generally cheap.

I do not think that it is feasible for the CPSC to test every product in the US, and almost all testing, especially the best quality testing, is done by independent agencies (UL) or related-industry agencies (the Insurance Industry crash tests). Depending on the government to test and monitor every single consumer product, though, isn't such a good idea, although they should have the ability to follow through better than they did.

Willravel 10-08-2007 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albania
Yea but cigarettes are cool as is evident by James Bond smoking.

That is a conundrum. :confused:

highthief 10-08-2007 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel
That is a conundrum. :confused:

I don't think he's lit up in the last 3 or 4 films, mind you.

Ustwo 10-08-2007 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highthief
I don't think he's lit up in the last 3 or 4 films, mind you.

Couple more films and they will have him channeling Allen Alda.

squeeeb 10-08-2007 06:32 PM

i don't believe or trust the government all that much, so as far as i'm concerned, it's up to me to protect myself. the government doesn't care about me, and why should they? i alone am not a majority. when it comes to food, i'm sure the different food groups pay big money for their "scientific findings" to come out as they need to be ok for the government to say "yup, looks good to me." the term "close enough for government work" isn't just a pithy saying.

i've worked in the bowels of the government. i see the people who are government employees. i wouldn't leave my safety up to them no matter what.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:26 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360