The new citizenship test: Would you pass? - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

KirStang · 02-25-2011, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

But it's not citizenship. It's residency. Big difference.

Well, generally, unless your mom is a U.S. Citizen, or you were born in the U.S., you need a green card before you can apply for citizenship.

In other words it's a necessary stepping stone to getting citizenship.

Sorry for getting this thread off topic.

The_Jazz · 02-25-2011, 08:36 AM

I don't see your point, KirStang, flawed as it is (your dad can be a US citizen too).

Residency is residency. Citizenship is citizenship. They're mutually exclusive. Residency may lead to citizenship but not necessarily. The rights and obligations are very different for each.

KirStang · 02-25-2011, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

I don't see your point, KirStang.

Residency is residency. Citizenship is citizenship. They're mutually exclusive. Residency may lead to citizenship but not necessarily. The rights and obligations are very different for each.

The point is, investment in many countries completes a big step on the path to citizenship. It is not per se "not true." Rather if you were loaded and really wanted US citizenship, you can invest the requisite money, get the green card, wait a couple of years, then get citizenship.

Point being, citizenship can be acquired through investment...

Quote:

flawed as it is (your dad can be a US Citizen too)

Only if they meet physical residence requirements (something like 5 years after reaching the age of 14) and legitimate the child or somehow agree to provide financial support. Hence why I said 'generally.'

Cynthetiq · 02-25-2011, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KirStang

The point is, investment in many countries completes a big step on the path to citizenship. It is not per se "not true." Rather if you were loaded and really wanted US citizenship, you can invest the requisite money, get the green card, wait a couple of years, then get citizenship.

Point being, citizenship can be acquired through investment...

Well, if you can't get here legally, you can't do it either. Those countries with full immigration quotas can't invest here to get residency or citizenship. A Mexican cannot just buy a property and get on the path to citizenship.

Having financial means can make the difference of getting a visa to stay here to get to the green card point, but I think that there's a big difference to the idea that just because you can invest in property, company, American stock, you can get a path to citizenship.

KirStang · 02-25-2011, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

Well, if you can't get here legally, you can't do it either. Those countries with full immigration quotas can't invest here to get residency or citizenship. A Mexican cannot just buy a property and get on the path to citizenship.

Having financial means can make the difference of getting a visa to stay here to get to the green card point, but I think that there's a big difference to the idea that just because you can invest in property, company, American stock, you can get a path to citizenship.

I think you may be confusing family based immigration with investment based immigration. Also remember, it has to create 10 permanent jobs, so buying land won't fly.

IIRC Congress sets aside something like 10,000 investment visas a year, many which end up unused.

So, a Mexican with millions of dollars, who thinks he can start a business in the USA, can apply and legally obtain a immigrant visa.

---------- Post added at 12:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:57 AM ----------

USCIS - Green Card Through Investment

Quote:

Green Card Through Investment

Entrepreneurs (and their spouses and unmarried children under 21) who make an investment in a commercial enterprise in the United States and who plan to create or preserve ten permanent full time jobs for qualified United States workers, are eligible to apply for a green card (permanent residence).
Up to 10,000 visas may be authorized each fiscal year for eligible entrepreneurs.

You must invest $1,000,000, or at least $500,000 in a targeted employment area (high unemployment or rural area). In return, USCIS may grant conditional permanent residence to the individual.

For more information, see Section 203(b)(5) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) and 8 CFR 204.6 (see the “INA” link to the right).

The_Jazz · 02-25-2011, 09:03 AM

KirStang, I think that it's important to emphasis the "path to citizenship" part, as in there's more than that one step. There are a lot more, and as Cyn pointed out, there's a lot more to it than simply opening a qualifying business here.

That said, I think it's interesting how someone that I keep waiting to spam us has gotten us off on this tangent. Remember this is the same guy that said that

Quote:

Any person can apply for naturalization and may be eligible for citizenship

Read more: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/tilted-...#ixzz1EzUQegTX

and seems likely to spam us with some sort of St. Kitts imigration/tourism links as soon as possible.

levite · 02-25-2011, 09:05 AM

10/10. Although I did have to formulate two different answers based on what Question Five might be, since it was unclear if they wanted rights of US citizens as opposed to elsewhere, or rights of citizens as opposed to resident aliens.

Still, easy test, I thought.

Cynthetiq · 02-25-2011, 09:20 AM

Thanks, I wasn't aware of the $1M investment for creating a business.

Any figures of how many actually get dispensed in this manner? That means there's 50,000 jobs created every year but this action.

KirStang · 02-25-2011, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

KirStang, I think that it's important to emphasis the "path to citizenship" part, as in there's more than that one step. There are a lot more, and as Cyn pointed out, there's a lot more to it than simply opening a qualifying business here.

That said, I think it's interesting how someone that I keep waiting to spam us has gotten us off on this tangent. Remember this is the same guy that said that

and seems likely to spam us with some sort of St. Kitts imigration/tourism links as soon as possible.

Sorry, it was my fault--you know how lawyers are.

I just wanted to clarify the little known provision. Again, did not mean to sidetrack the thread from the citizenship test (which I would probably fail

)

Strange Famous · 03-05-2011, 04:15 AM

Anyway, in my opinion it is utterly irrelevant that someone seeking to settle in the US understands or cares about its constitution

The appropriate things to test are:

Can they speak and understand the language they will need to use?
Do they understand the laws and customers they will be expected to live by?

_

If someone comes in from Netherlands to be a research scientist, what possible vaue or difference to her views on the "Federalist Papers" have? Simply making people sit an exam on arbitary information about the structure of government serves only the function of not letting in people who cant be bothered to revise.

Hektore · 03-05-2011, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

Anyway, in my opinion it is utterly irrelevant that someone seeking to settle in the US understands or cares about its constitution

The appropriate things to test are:

Can they speak and understand the language they will need to use?
Do they understand the laws and customers they will be expected to live by?

err...

The Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the United States of America.

Strange Famous · 03-05-2011, 09:43 AM

The laws that matter are to do with property, personal protection, etc... it isnt relevant how many members are in the house of representatives.

I doubt 1 in 100 UK citizens could tell you how many MPs there were in the UK parliament, how many peers in the House of Lords, how many MSP's etc etc...

The constitution doesnt make much of a difference to normal people's lives, even though it is considered a semi-religious document in the US.

02-25-2011, 08:36 AM	#42 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	I don't see your point, KirStang, flawed as it is (your dad can be a US citizen too). Residency is residency. Citizenship is citizenship. They're mutually exclusive. Residency may lead to citizenship but not necessarily. The rights and obligations are very different for each. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

02-25-2011, 09:05 AM	#47 (permalink)
levite Minion of Joss Location: The Windy City	10/10. Although I did have to formulate two different answers based on what Question Five might be, since it was unclear if they wanted rights of US citizens as opposed to elsewhere, or rights of citizens as opposed to resident aliens. Still, easy test, I thought. __________________ Dull sublunary lovers love, Whose soul is sense, cannot admit Absence, because it doth remove That thing which elemented it. (From "A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning" by John Donne)

02-25-2011, 09:20 AM	#48 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	Thanks, I wasn't aware of the $1M investment for creating a business. Any figures of how many actually get dispensed in this manner? That means there's 50,000 jobs created every year but this action. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

03-05-2011, 04:15 AM	#50 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	Anyway, in my opinion it is utterly irrelevant that someone seeking to settle in the US understands or cares about its constitution The appropriate things to test are: Can they speak and understand the language they will need to use? Do they understand the laws and customers they will be expected to live by? _ If someone comes in from Netherlands to be a research scientist, what possible vaue or difference to her views on the "Federalist Papers" have? Simply making people sit an exam on arbitary information about the structure of government serves only the function of not letting in people who cant be bothered to revise. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

03-05-2011, 09:43 AM	#52 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	The laws that matter are to do with property, personal protection, etc... it isnt relevant how many members are in the house of representatives. I doubt 1 in 100 UK citizens could tell you how many MPs there were in the UK parliament, how many peers in the House of Lords, how many MSP's etc etc... The constitution doesnt make much of a difference to normal people's lives, even though it is considered a semi-religious document in the US. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas