Push-Pull

OK, during a search for something else, I came across this gem of a page. To fully appreciate it, be sure to visit the other pages numbered at the bottom of this link.....(WARNING can be VERY, VERY GRAPHIC!!!!!) http://modblog.bmezine.com/category/extreme/page/5/

Now, as a person who is both tattooed (3" triangular celtic knot on nape of neck) and pierced, (prince albert, currently 10g) I can say that I understand someone who also is pierced and/or tattooed. However, looking through the link posted above, I have to say that for me there is definitely a line that gets crossed in a spectacular way for some of these "body mods". Now, I can see someone getting an implant under their skin. I can see tongue splitting. I can even see scarification. But what I don't fully understand is metallic screw on inserts, super heavy tats, piercings the size of hubcaps, and even worse, amputation. While I certainly won't preach against them, I have to wonder what drives these modifications. But what about amputation? How is that a reasonable "body mod"?

So the question I pose is this.... What is your "line" that divides body mods from mutilation? Does such a line exist, or is it simply in the eye/mind of the person viewing them?

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"No laws, no matter how rigidly enforced, can protect a person from their own stupidity." -Me-

"Some people are like Slinkies..... They are not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." -Unknown-

DAMMIT! -Jack Bauer-

ngdawg

Mutilation, to me, can't be reversed. Tats, most piercings-they can be healed or reversed, either with laser or time. Stretching a lip or surgically changing a body part(why anyone would want to split their tongue or insert bumpy stuff is beyond me) is a lot more permanent, changes the complete look of the person...and usually not for the better. Hell, never for the better, IMO. It's as though the thinking is "I'm ugly, so I'll just up the ugly factor a few notches with these surgically inserted titanium balls in my cheeks".
One of the things I've seen and can't get over is corsetting-surgically (or not so surgically) inserting eyelets into the back or chest and then weaving ribbon or rope and pulling it together. *shudder*

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Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Daniel_

I find these type of things very odd.

And that is the key.

In the sixties it was enough to grow your hair over your collar to have people think the world was ending.

In the seventies it was required to wear extreme clothes, or coloured and sculpted hair.

Three decades after punk, and you have to cut the end off your cock and wear it hanging out of your fly to have people be startled by you.

People (predominantly young men, but not always) like to create fear and suspicion in those around them as a way of asserting power and identity. Body mods are a very extreme way of setting the bar for getting into your clique REALLY high (in financial and personal terms).

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Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
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World's King

The girl with the split tongue... That's just plain fucking hot. I'd pay for her to give me head.

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

Push-Pull

I'd be lying if I said I didn't agree with you.

And good point about the shock value being inflated over the years. It does seem that it has "gotten worse" over time, doesn't it? I mean, even something fairly mainstream like ear piercings weren't as common back in the 60's, and you didn't many see tongue or lip piercings until the punk movement.

OK, 'nudder question....at what point does a "body mod" become a mutilation? Is it "irreversible" like ngdawg said, or something else?

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"No laws, no matter how rigidly enforced, can protect a person from their own stupidity." -Me-

"Some people are like Slinkies..... They are not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." -Unknown-

DAMMIT! -Jack Bauer-

Daniel_

I thnk that's "eye of the beholder" stuff.

Mutilation is a seriously motive word - personally I'd use it for anything that's nsty to look at and hard to reverse/repair.

I'm wondering how long it will be before someone works out a way to replace skin with something transparent so you can achieve a "flayed man" look.

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╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

Plan9

Wow, I want to look like beefaroni, too.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Kush

I'm really fascinated by a certain amount of body modification, but mostly when it's part of the body that can heal or take a fair amount of abuse. But when it's self induced infection to force a hospital amputation, that just angers me. If that person were to die due to internal infection, then frankly they fucking deserve it.

Also: cervical piercing. Is there really any point?

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I like this forum. A lot.

Manic_Skafe

I've got my tongue pierced and a few tattoos and while I'm still completely in love with my tattoos, I really don't care too much for having my tongue pierced. And it stems mostly from the fact that my tattoos have a story behind them and something communicated through them. When people ask why I have my tongue pierced I usually just tell them that "well I was 18 and really wanted it"...

And it's the same for these "bod mods". I can understand scarring if it's done into a particular design but the random scars (like the cheeks of the guy in the first picture), implants, and extremely gauged lips and ears is where I draw the line. They communicate nothing but pretension and a desire to be looked at strangely.

Soon enough, looking like Ephialtes from 300 will be cool.

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"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

JStrider

I really think that if you have it done on your own and of your free will its not mutilation

When I think of mutilation I think more of things like forced female genital mutilation something that is forced upon someone.

If its done of your own free will its just decoration or a modification

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-=JStrider=-

~Clatto Verata Nicto

Dane Bramage

I'm not so sure about the "shock value" argument posted above. I read some of the articles over at the bmezine.com website and no one talks about that. It gets them high... I guess it's that some of them get off that way. I certainly don't know the whole story.

I myself find it terribly odd. I don't understand it one bit. I honestly don't even consider piercings to really be modifications. To me, they are just adornment. Split tongues, cutting off the head of your dick... voluntary amputations... now that is a modification.

To each his own, man. I'm gonna gonna judge. I just wonder what they will think of themselves when they are 60. Maybe they won't think anything. Dunno.

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Every passing hour brings the Solar System forty-three thousand miles closer to Globular Cluster M13 in Hercules — and still there are some misfits who insist that there is no such thing as progress.
Kurt Vonnegut - Sirens of Titan

Charlatan

How is this different from cosmetic surgery?

I see a time not to far in the future where cosmetic surgery and the body mod community meet in the middle and we start to see some very radical body modifications.

The more these things occur the less "weird" they will seem to be.

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

World's King

Our bodies are Temples...



I redecorated.

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

uncle phil

/me respects his "temple..."

__________________
"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara
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"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
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never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.

snowy

This is certainly the scholastic definition...

No, what this is is not mutilation. But whether or not it's a phenomenon that disturbs me...that is another question. Yes, it disturbs me, because I don't understand how these manipulations of one's body are supposed to be attractive or an enhancement of one's appearance. I understand piercing, and I understand how certain piercings and certain jewelry enhances one's appearance and expresses one's self. But this...this is completely foreign to me, but it still isn't mutilation. It's manipulation of one's body, and that's a personal choice.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Sion

I see these extreme body mods as weaknesses to be exploited in a street fight. I'm betting if you rip someone's lip/ear/nose plate out, you'd take most of the fight out of them.

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He's the best, of course, of all the worst.
Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz

I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin...

Plan9

Exam Question goes:

Our bodies are our: ____
A: Temples
B: Dumpsters
C: Rotting Meat Robots

You're a "sociopath", too!? C'mere, lemme give you a big hug!

...

Hooah, Sergeant. Airborne.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

uncle phil

no belt?
pants around your knees?
good luck, suckah!!!

__________________
"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara
-----------------------------------------
"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
-----------------------------------------
never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.

noodle

It's the photo entitled: "Guess this Anatomy" (that I initially passed and went back to because I thought I was all smart and shite and knew right away...) that ended that website browse for me. Parts of my body shrieked in sympathy.

On another note, further down the page... do I even want to know what "ball exposure play" is?

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Ourcrazymodern?

It seems so many of these fellow human beings look back when I'm looking at them oddly as if to say "Why are you looking at me oddly...don't you dare judge me...you're oppressing me!" that I know I have far to go to achieve any sort of understanding.

They also tend to scare me a little.

My body serves more as an altar than as a temple. But it seems to me a tool altered to lesser functionality (like the tongues) is JUST PLAIN WRONG.

As I said, I just don't get it.

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

lurkette

I dono, I think there's a sort of bizarre elegance to this level of body modification. It certainly makes a statement. The body as medium, the extremity of it as a form of art. People who do this are simultaneously extremely off-center (from the rest of society) and completely self-contained and centered, if that makes any sense. They've taken complete control of their appearance and identity and made it entirely their own. I find it fascinating.

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"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

Charlatan

I completely agree with Lurkette... and further to my point, as it becomes easier to do (cheap and pain free) there will be more and frequent body mods.

I like the future that William Gibson painted in his short story Johnny Mnemonic, where gangs like the Lo Teks completely differentiate themselves from the mainstream by radically altering their bodies in a visually low tech fashion (as opposed to those who do so in a high tech and societally acceptable fashion).

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Nisses

Mutilation or maiming is an act or physical injury that degrades the appearance or function of the (human) body, usually without causing death.

So I guess if you look at it as injury, then no, it isn't mutilation. The rest of it is spot on tho. So in comes the personal POV to gray and blurr the line of
And if I pass them on the street, I usually do stare, and keep staring when they stare back...

Personally, I find it rather sad and shortsighted to do such things on yourself as shown on the site of the OP.

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Moderation should be moderately moderated.

optik_nerve

Not that I'd ever do it cause I'm too much of a pussy but the magnets in the fingers would be a pretty cool thing to have...

cyklone

Body mods have been around a long long time; ones that come immediately to mind are those amongst primitive tribes and the chinese (strapping feet). Those seem to be associated with either rite of passage or masculinity and femininity. I'll be damned if I know what is behind some of the things you see these days. Perhaps it is still associated with sexual adequacy or the lack of.

Boo

While I respect a persons right to "decorate". I also look at the long term implications of their choice.

I was getting my truck washed the other day and there was a VERY decorated guy about 25 there. He was frustrated that he could get interviews for better jobs but never got called back. As a manager soon to be, I would not hire him either. Not even to work in my warehouse. I cringe every time I look at him, what about my customers aversions to it?

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Back button again, I must be getting old.

World's King

There are some hot fuckin' girls on that site.

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

evilbeefchan

I always considered modification becoming mutilation when it causes permanent damage, specifically rendering useless something that once was functional. I'd say Finger removal/ DIY penectomy (pg13) would fall under that category.

Saw IV is going to have a really hard time impressing me, now.

Charlatan

Boo... in my mind, if you are going to mark yourself so thoroughly that it becomes a detriment to being hired in the conventional workplace you really have to be sure that this something you are really prepared to do.

I agree with you. I wouldn't necessarily hire the guy either (though I might for a warehouse job). I think people just need to realize that like anything in life, there are consequences to your actions.

If you are looking to mark yourself as Other, be prepared to be treated as such.

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Ourcrazymodern?

Beautifully put!

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

Plan9

NICE! And I thought everybody hated Johnny Mnemonic because of the movie.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

MSD

There is a man on that page who had a testicle removed and sewn onto his chest. Enough said.
Magnets can't stand up to the abuse of being in the hand, and most are rejected before they get enough use to break.

Ustwo

Condensing doing this sort of thing into one word....

Dumbasses

Seriously how fucking stupid do you have to be? How big an attention whore? How much do you want to get back at daddy?

In some medical future, this sort of thing could be 100% reversible, so you could have 'fun' with your body in that respect without fucking yourself over for life.

This is not that medical future.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

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Crack

damn kids...


that about sums it up.

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Crack, you and I are long overdue for a vicious bout of mansex.

~Halx

Ustwo

Nah...

Dumb kids.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.