shesus

"It was an urge. ... A strong urge, and the longer I let it go the stronger it got, to where I was taking risks to go out and kill people risks that normally, according to my little rules of operation, I wouldn't take because they could lead to arrest." —Edmund Kemper.

I've always been fascinated with what makes people tick. Mental illnesses has been something that I've done some independent research on and eventually want to pursue my PhD in Child Psychology since that will go with my other degrees.

I believe that serial killers are mentally disturbed with possible schizophrenia or multiple personalities. However, after I read the quote above, I wonder if maybe sometimes it is an urge that they can't control.

People are fat because they can't control their urges to eat. I don't want to delve on that topic again because it's already been discussed in another thread, but it's an example.

I had a friend who slept all day because he had the urge to sleep all the time. People that know me know that I sleep A LOT, but this guy made me look like I had insomnia.

People are alcoholics or drug addicts. because they can't control the urge to drink or do the drug.

BUT wait, those people are addicted to alcohol, nicotine, or the drug of choice. Well, that brings me to the question: Is murder addictive? I know that one would have to get a rush taking another life. The adrenaline would have to be pumping through the system after the act is finished.

I know, murder isn't something you take into your body like alcohol and the such. It's an action. Well, I've heard people say they're addicted to running or other exercise because of the rush they get. People are addicted to extreme sports or other activities because of the rush.

I'm curious as to what others think about this or know about this.

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MSD

I do things that are supposedly addictive, but I can and do stop doing them when I want to. I'm also obsessive-compulsive, but I can curb most of those behaviors when they will be distracting, harmful, or undesirable. With the exception of some rare cases, I firmly believe that failure to fight addiction is due to weak willpower, not physical or chemical dependency on an action or substance.

When it gets to the point that the compulsion is to commit murder, I think it's possible that the imbalance and mental defect is so severe that either the understanding of why that behavior should be avoided or the ability to avoid that behavior is absent.

hambone

If I am not mistaken, from what I read about serial killers, the "rush" you describe is sexually related. It seems that they experience a sexual pleasure from the murderous acts.

That said, I suppose this could get addicting. There are sex addicts, could this be a horrible manifestation of that?

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abaya

Yeah, this is what makes it psychosis instead of neurosis, or at least that's my very limited understanding of mental disconnects from reality...

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shesus

MSD: I agree that addictions generally do show lack of will power although people that have addictions will argue that point. I did, but now that I've stopped smoking I see that I just didn't have the will to quit all those years. Yet, some drugs, like heroine, are very addictive which is why rehab is around although not always successful. Which is why I agree with you that it can be addictive to people with mental illnesses.

Hambone: Many serial killers actually are charged with rape or sexual assault charges also. What I also find interesting is that many victims are prostitutes, couples, or gay men. There was actually a man in Australia that was completely 'normal' until his late 50s. Then he became obsessed with hitting elderly women in the head with a hammer and strangling them with their own undergarments.

Strange cases like this lead me to wonder, what happens in a person's brain to make them do things like this?

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Halx

From personal experience, I'd say murder is very addictive.

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Jinn

Oh certainly. I can't think of a thing in this world that isn't 'addictive,' it its broadest sense. If you enjoy it, so much so that you'd be willing to do it more than once - you can be addicted to it.

Drugs
Alcohol
Sex
Video Games
Killing
Porn
TV
Eating
Karate
Dancing
Reading
Posting on Forums

EVERYTHING can be addicting, murder included.

The only thing that separates the billions of things humans can become addicted to is their societal acceptance and their ease of addiction. I'd say murder is low in acceptance and medium/high in ease. Reading is high in acceptance but medium/low in ease. Drugs are low in acceptance but high in ease.

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hambone

This makes sense to me.

And I think a big factor could be that when one of these activities negatively affects others it is that much more unacceptable.

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analog

Often, a serial murderer's compulsion is tethered to a God complex... they believe that they are basically "god" because they control when people die.

From "Red Dragon", about a serial killer (yes it's a movie, but the reasoning is real):

Will Graham: He's not going to stop.
Police officer: Why?
Will Graham: Because it makes him God.

MexicanOnABike

It is addictive. Why else would videogames be fun? You kill and kill in every game. I was addicted to UT for a while. it's relaxing to kill someone.

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mixedmedia

If you read up on serial killers you often find quite a few things in common:

Sexual and/or physical abuse.
Abuse of animals in childhood.
The inability to empathize.

I tend to think that the impulse to kill again and again is more closely associated with fetishistic behavior than addictive behavior. More a compulsion than a need. But I'm certainly not an expert.

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777

Well, acorrding to Dashielle Hammette, author of a few crime novels, private detective, and served in WWI, murder gets to you in one of two ways, it makes you sick or you get to like it.

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shesus

Analog: Yes, most people do think they are doing a service for god or are god themselves. Which is why I think some killers, or at least killers that are of this train of thought, have schizophrenia. Many people who are schizophrenic claim to get messages from god or angels.

MM: There was a student once who I'm waiting to see in the news. He should be about 16 now since he was in 3rd grade when my team teacher had him. We aren't sure if he was abused, but he definitely was a creepy kid. He would torture wounded animals on the playground. He would whisper our names and throw the worst tantrums I've ever seen. He would vandalize cars. The last straw was when we found numerous pictures he had drawn of him killing the teacher. He was one of the reasons I started my research because I was baffled by why a kid would be like this.

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Psycho Dad

meh... But then again I quit smoking very easily too.

My wife attended a lecture on the BTK killer shortly after he was caught (it was actually scheduled before he was apprehended). She wanted me to go but I declined. Damn i wish I would have gone now. From what I gather, he just got an ego boost thinking he was smarter than all those looking for him all those years.

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powerclown

Sometimes violent people kill repeatedly for profit, their skillset an ideal fit for the job. HBO did a documentary on mafia hitman Richard Kuklinsky, where he was interviewed in jail by a psychiatrist sitting across from him. The bottom line, according to the shrink, was that he was a typical homicidal sociopath...and that it usually starts in childhood with these guys. YouTube has videos of the entire interview.

alicat

Hal,

I question whether murder is nearly on a par as far as "ease" goes with drugs. Maybe as far as the actual execution of the action but certainly not in regards to the possible ramification's.

This I completely agree with. If the victim was a hermit with no one who cared about them (the Uni-bomber comes to mind as an example, of a hermit, not a victim) then it would not register with the general populus. The inverse is the people harmed by him who actually had support from loved one's willing to fight for their cause.

Not to open another can of worms , I think it's quite common knowledge (I might be wrong though), that there are countless "average" american's murdered everyday for every Chandra Levy or Laci Peterson, that don't come to the public's attention. I guess I don't have an answer to the question after all and am talking through a vodka haze...

That and Andy Dick just showed up on my T.V. screen, thus sending me to bed. Night all.

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Shauk

all i know is that if I ever crossed that line into killing someone that i'd probably have less of a hesitance to do it again. experience can lead to efficiency, familiarity.

mixedmedia

Perhaps. Or you could be haunted by it for the rest of your life and never kill again. You hear those kinds of stories, too.

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PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

shesus

Or in turn, commit suicide.

I think that crimes of passion are different from serial killings. Although, maybe a person who killed out of passion could turn into a serial killer.

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Shauk

nah, i'm just thinking if i could disregard my reverence for life, because i'm all too well aware of mortality having the drawback of "one chance to live, or if i could get over my constant "walk a mile in the other person shoes" mindset, I'd probably just go with the feeling of superiority over other people since most the douchebags I meet in my day to day interaction here in north idaho have thier own special place in hell reserved next to the jerry springer crowd.

in short, i revere life, i hate people. I'd be a repeat offender if I didn't hold life dear.

Elphaba

Great topic shesus. I think you will find in your continued research that schizophrenia is not causal in creating a serial killer. A paranoid schizophrenic might kill under acute psychosis, but it is not a planned event with the intention of continuing to kill. The vagaries of "multiple personalities" serves defense lawyers, but there is little clinical evidence of the disorder.

There are probably a number of ways that one can become a serial killer, but I believe powerclown hit on the most common variety. Homocidal sociopaths, or the person with an extreme version of "Antisocial Personality Disorder," tend to be the more well known of the serial killers. Ted Bundy and Gary Ridgway are good examples from my neck of the woods.

These individuals believe themselves to be superior to all others (god-like as analog suggested), and therefore not subject to cultural norms. An extreme form of APD would allow for the killing of others as another expression of their power.

Here is a link to APD diagnosis, if you are interested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisoc...ality_disorder

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shesus

Elphaba: thanks for the info and I'm going to look into that a bit further later on.

As for multiple personalities, it is often used as a scapegoat to try to get someone off for reason of insanity. However, there was one case that spurred my interest in this area. When I was living in Ohio, there was a local crime section. I found a book about a man named Billy Milligan. This man had many personalities and was diagnosed. His voice would change and he had different skills with each personality. It was an interesting book and I believe they're making a movie about him now. Anyway, he was a serial killer around Athens and Columbus, Ohio because of his mental illness.

Has anyone known anyone that was schizophrenic or multiple personality? I realize that is topic changing, but I'm more into the psychology of things than court cases. And I'm sure that no one knows any serial killers...but if you do that would be interesting to hear about too.

Also, as I read through the posts, I wonder what gives someone the god-like complex. What occurs or is the turning point htat makes a person say "I'm god and it's my duty to rid the earth of *insert whatever type of victim*"?

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Sion

Murder By Numbers

Written by sting & andy summers


Once that youve decided on a killing
First you make a stone of your heart
And if you find that your hands are still willing
Then you can turn a murder into art

There really isnt any need for bloodshed
You just do it with a little more finesse
If you can slip a tablet into someones coffee
Then it avoids an awful lot of mess

Its murder by numbers, one, two, three
Its as easy to learn as your abc
Murder by numbers, one, two, three
Its as easy to learn as your abc

Now if you have a taste for this experience
And youre flushed with your very first success
Then you must try a twosome or a threesome
And youll find your conscience bothers you much less

Because murder is like anything you take to
Its a habit-forming need for more and more
You can bump off every member of your family
And anybody else you find a bore

Because its murder by numbers, one, two, three
Its as easy to learn as your abc
Murder by numbers, one, two, three
Its as easy to learn as your abc

Now you can join the ranks of the illustrious
In historys great dark hall of fame
All our greatest killers were industrious
At least the ones that we all know by name

But you can reach the top of your profession
If you become the leader of the land
For murder is the sport of the elected
And you dont need to lift a finger of your hand

Because its murder by numbers, one, two, three
Its as easy to learn as your abc
Murder by numbers, one, two, three
Its as easy to learn as your a, b, c, d, e

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Elphaba

Shesus, I have had many schizophrenic clients, both in and out patient. (PM me if you want to know what the "paranoid's" were like). I never had a "multiple personality" client before DSM-IV, and they became a regular client type after DSM gave a tentative classification. Short story, if it is in the DSM, insurance can be charged. Suddenly I had dozens of MP's and that speaks to the corruption of the psychiatrists and psych hospitals at the time.

I emphasized the lack of clinical (controlled research) evidence for this disorder, and it is the anecdotel case studies with which most people are aware. Case studies such as the one you mentioned are problematic for a number of reasons. You can easily surmise one of them, given the sudden flood of MPD's following tentative recognition by the APA. MPD has become the excuse for bad behavior by all sorts of people, including celebrities. I will remain very doubtful until there are replicated research studies that authenticate this disorder.

I encourage your search for knowledge on this disorder, and I hope you will view what you find with a critical eye.

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Plan9

Lies, all lies!

Hahaha...

(does katas in his sleep)

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SirLance

The rush of combat always got to me. As terrifying, as hard, as intense as it was, I fucking miss it.

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