Insane story: Woman forced into sex with son
 

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I can not imagine the psychological scarring that this family will have. I just can not think of an appropriate punishment. Since I believe in G-d I just feel that people like this should be killed simply a bullet to the head and then let them go straight to hell for G-d to give the long time suffering that they deserve. There are some crimes where there is no justification no rehab that will ever make these people fit to be among us and no real appropriate punishment outside of death (which is probably to painless from what they truly deserve).

WHAT THE FUCK.

Heinous story. It's weird when criminals break into a place and then dwell, and think of stuff to force people to do. It happened before to a few college students. I mean, usually when someone breaks into a place to steal, they wanna get out as fast as they can, so this is a heinous story, probably of boredom on the part of the ten culprits.

Shocking and sad. Especially considering the age of the two who were caught. I can only hope that "the system" sees the severity of the crime as call for trying them as adults. I imagine boys that young would get paid special attention in prison. THAT would be a good start on justice.....

Sounds like a fetish. Don't judge...

This about sums it up for me... What kind of hell is that family going to have to live through now? I hope they can recover enough to live in some kind or normalcy.:sad:

Methinks the perps will get a VERY similar taste of their own medicine once they're convicted and put in with the general pop.

I know it's wrong, but LMAO!

See, this kind of thing is where the "cruel and unusual punishments" should be allowed. This is an extraordinarily cruel and unusual crime. Honestly, no shit... I think they should be beaten daily until they die. I think shit likes this needs a terribly morbid example made of it. Perhaps they should be sodomized and beaten until they die. Slowly. An eye for an eye may make the whole world blind, but justice sometimes is a bitch.

this is some sick shit- but we should all learn from it-I am in no way blaming the victims, but fuck, I NEVER go to my door after dark without a weapon handy- and NO ONE should go outside of their dwelling, in the dark, with a person unknown to them- especially when that dwelling is in a "crime ridden housing project"- this was pre-meditated as hell, they went looking for a sucker, found one, and did as they pleased- most of the people of the world are revolted by the thought of something like this, but clearly there are some dangerous, sick fuckers out there- and sadly, the key to safety is caution and awareness........

Yes yes. Burn them.

Mob vengence... Yay.

In seriousness, this is a nasty crime. However the defendents are entitled to a trial and selection of an appropriate punishment. To my way of thinking, they are almost insane, by definition.

I definitely do not support this idea of killing them and letting god decide. If that was the case, Iraq would be simple. Just nuke it and let god sort it out. Not nice. Particularly bad if god turned out not to exist (or turned out to be a supporter of Muhammed).

I think the perps should be locked up for life with no possibilty of parole.

our justice system is fucked up, ineffective and poorly concieved- we do not punish well, we do not rehabilitate well, and as a result we have a constant recycling of people through our system- seriously, ask anyone on the street what our prison system is for, and you have a 50% chance that they will say punishment, the other 50% will say rehabilitation......it does not work, and costs billions...... as to the perps in this case, I say punishment is appropriate- and I do not feel that the state has much right to decide their fate- let the victims decide..........in fact, In all cases, I feel that the agrieved party should be able to pick the punishment from a list of (suitably viscious) approved options.........

That is seriously sick, I don't know how people like that can even exist. I think that they should find an island somewhere and just put all these sick fucks on it and they can deal with themselves. Just deport every criminal and sick fucker like that onto the island and be gone with them.

You seem to have a perverse sense of "justice." I won't even call this medieval. It is beyond that. I can only describe it as "Punishment by Anarchist Autonomous Mass-Customization." Would these punishments be made public? Perhaps via the Internet even?

There is a reason victims don't decide on the punishment of the convicted. It's called bias. Certainly the American justice system isn't perfect, but you don't want the alternative. To advocate cruel and unusual punishment is heinous in itself. That is why it's called cruel and unusual. Do you truly want to have the system go Old Testament? Please, put away your pitchforks!

Once you decide to violate the rights of others... you in turn lose all of your rights. Pretty straight and simple.

There's no need to try to rehabilitate people that commit crimes like this, and letting them live in prison is a burden on the system. I say do away with them.

I second that. :thumbsup:

They'll go to jail for 5 years or so and get out because the victims aren't dead. Meanwhile if you get caught looking at kiddie porn at a corporation you go to jail for 10 years. Or if you're a CEO who signed papers that said your finances were in order when they weren't you go to jail for a minimum of 10 years. These fucks will get out of jail in less than 10 years.

Ya know, George Carlin had a bit where all the rapists, murders, and other lowly scum of society got "banished" to a large fenced in area with no guards, and few buildings and accommodations. The fence would be quadruple layer razor wired and electrified, and food and other sustenance would be dropped in via helicopter. The idea being that these scourges of humanity would sort it out themselves.

I know that is not the general way of our justice system, but prison and rehabilitation as we know it today doesn't appear to be working all that well.

every system is open to abuse- do you really believe that our current system is unbiased- please- all that I advocate is letting the victim have the right to decide, within parameters, what someone deserves- can you really claim that anyone has more right? let us say that your parents were gunned down in cold blood while being robbed- why is it wrong to let you decide whether the perpetrator should be executed, imprisoned for life or flung to a bunch of lions?
the perpetrator decided to commit the murder, and it would be, I think, harder for victims to order a gruesome death than you may think- it would make justice a more personal thing, and something that everyone would be forced to think on......do you claim that you are for instance a christian? a pacifist? think what that would mean in the system I propose........

I don't know what country you're writing from, but that's not how it works in America. Nor should it be.

Our system is deeply imperfect (the imbalance in law enforcement, prosecution, and punishment among the races comes to mind), but it's miles better than most alternatives.

has anyone in your family been the victim of a violent crime- if someone you care for is murdered, you may change your mind about how great our system is....

How would you categorize "crimes like this"? And could this include capital punishment for manslaughter, driving while impaired, and emotional abuse?

This sounds like some form of Communism. I'm not sure if this is the way to go.

actually, it is derived from old scandinavian law- I got it out of a few of the norse sagas- and it does have its flaws like anything else, but it makes the concept of justice personal, and that is something that I think is not a bad thing, and would help our society run better......

It's very easy to be asking for blood and retribution when the crime is particularly heinous. I too am shocked and revolted be the act and hope that the family can rebound and live a normal life. Tall hopes.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

The problem with meting out "an eye for an eye" type justice to criminals who commit horrific acts is the scaling these punishments for "lesser" crimes.

Do we cut the hand off when someone steals an apple? And what if this person is a habitual shoplifter, has a criminal record as long as your arm but hasn't stole anything worth more than $50.00? Both hands and possibly a foot?

Having the victim decide the punishment would create an unbalanced and broken system. While one victim may met out harsh punishment for a particular crime, another victim may feel different and have a lesser sentence for the same criminal activity.

It is too easy for me to feel that these shitbags should get what they deserve. And trust me, I would not shed a tear if these rapists were anally violated every day in prison. But it's not so easy for me to decide what would happen to a drunk on the street causing a disturbance. I may feel that person should sleep it off in the drunk tank. My neighbour may feel that person should have their teeth knocked out. Which is the right course of action?

Yeah. Because what we need in our society is more violence and intolerance. :rolleyes:

In my opinion, the law works best when it's decidedly impersonal. Listen: when somebody puts a ding in my car door, I want to kill them. That's not an exaggeration. Fortunately for all of us, we live in a legal system that seriously inhibits my acting on that reaction.

Our society frowns on sailing around in longboats wearing horned helms, raping, looting, and pillaging the local villages. Perhaps in such a society, a system as (well, I'll say it) barbaric as the one you propose would be appropriate.

I don't think our system is great. It's broken in some fairly dramatic ways. But my inability to order the death or maiming of a person who injures me isn't one of them.

Let a pitbull or something similar chew on their dicks for a while. Then, shoot them in the kneecaps and let that shit fester while sticking rusted nails under their skin in various places every day until death occurs.

While I agree with the desire to just torture these people, I just feel the damage it would do to the people doing it is not worth it. I feel a basic desire to end their existence in a quick fashion, and prey that G-d will take care of the eye for an eye part.

Sure, but for those of us who don't believe in god, physical retribution is the way to go! Besides, whoever volunteers for this torture probably doesn't have a problem with doing it. These pricks deserve worse.

The main problem I have with this is what if they got the wrong guy? That would really suck.

That is why I am against torture and the death penalty. Human error can be fatal.

Of course, there have been plenty examples of mistaken identity and completely innocent individuals have died during torture or were executed. However, don't they have concrete evidence against the assailants? DNA evidence and, if I'm not mistaken, one of them has confessed?

I am not proposing allowing a maiming for dinging a door- there would have to be a scale of what was acceptable- just as with anything- I invision something where death or torture/etc would only be an option for murder, rape, things like that- The codes I drew from dated from the time of Scandinavia being a primitive democracy, and there were a number of things held over from it to our present legal system- the right to a trial by jury of ones peers, for instance, as well as the idea of the community setting a series of possible punishments- but the core of it was that the injured party had a stake in the punishment of the offender- something that I feel would be valuable to us today, due to the widespread disillusionment with the legal system as it stands..... its hard to ignore something that you are an integral part of- and hard to be disinfranchised from a system like that too.......

Internets have porn of this in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1......

/you know you were all thinking the same thing...

Except God doesn't do that eye for an eye thing. Instead, He'd have each of them realize what they had done was evil, they would show their remorse, then they would have a seat next to Him as everyone else does.

And, yeah, let's torture them, since evil begets evil. Of course, the best method for this is to be hanged, drawn, and quartered. And it would be best to let your children watch... it would be a rich moral lesson, especially for the younger ones.

Okay, so what would be a rich moral lesson? Explaining to that kid and his mother that they must forgive their enemies? That violence is bad? These are 14-16 year olds. Cut off their balls so that there's no chance of reproduction, at least.

Forgiveness is more powerful that retribution. Not everyone can see that, though.

:eek: What? Didn't you see Karate Kid II? :thumbsup:

I'd like to see how forgiving you'd be if you or your loved one were put into that situation.

I may sound cruel, but these little pricks need to be taught a painful lesson.

I think it's obvious based on his car ding example. But again, he defers that it be handled by a third party. I tend to agree.

I'm not saying that the mom or the child should be the ones participating in torture, but that a painful action be taken against these pricks by whoever. Even if it's getting gang raped in prison.

add to that Lurkette's situation which we witnessed here a couple years ago. Again, walks the walk that is talked.

No idea what you're talking about.

I gotta agree. Until you're put in that situation, you don't know how you would react. That is definitely some life-altering stuff that would most likely shatter any current concepts or beliefs of justice you have.

Knowing myself, if that happened to my wife and kid, the perps would be LUCKY if I ONLY shot them point blank in the face with a shotgun. If I may quote my former boss...."I have a backhoe that digs down 21 feet. They stop looking after 8 or so."

Personally (and I'm not trying to start a religious slant...) I think God would know the difference between outright evil and retribution.

The short story: A family member was killed, there was opporunity for retribution of some sort, but Lurkette and her family decided for forgiveness instead of destroying another family via retribution.

Do you have a link to that thread?

I don't know if it was a thread, it may be in a journal entry.

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...t=brother+died is the thread wherein she asked members to spread the ashes of her brother around the world.

Okay, here's my $0.02. If my loved one were hit by a car, I'd make sure the driver lost his license for as long as possible, plus served some jail time. If something that was described in the article happened to the loved one, I'm afraid to think what I would do to those people. Push-Pull had the right idea. Shotgun to the face would be too nice of a punishment.

I've been in a situation closer to that poor womans then I would ever wish on another living being. Vengence won't make her feel better, it won't help her get over it, it won't make her able to look her son in the eyes (providing the torture done to him hasn't blinded him) again.

Nothing will ever remove the burden that she's now living under. Torturing those boys is infact not going to help her in any way shape or form, all it will do is make society feel like it's doing something.

There's a reason that the majority of legal systems in the world allow punishment to be passed out by an objective person / collection of people.

1) so that the victims don't have to live under the guilt and horror of not only their own suffering but knowing that they caused the death of another human being ( all very well to decide they should die now but they might feel differently in 5 years)

2) Incase a mistake is made. Numerous cases over the years have been appealed or new evidence has come to light which proves that the person in jail was not actually guilty.

I know that people want criminals to pay and I agree with you, they should. I know that the legal systems all over the world have problems. It's alot easier to find the problems in these systems then fix them though.

And I support the Victims right to make a decision- if the victims want to not pursue vengence, then that is their right- if they feel that they could live with condemning another person to death, then that too, is their right..........I know victims who will sleep better when their attacker is put to death- not for revenge, but for the knowledge that that person cannot hurt anyone else , ever, if they are dead........

thats the nost shocking thing i've heard in a long time.
good case for capital punishment, sick sick sick

Have you ever read any Greek tragedies... or perhaps even some of Shakespeare's? I will repeat: evil begets evil. Vengeance leads to vengeance leads to vengeance. You kill my brother, I kill yours, you kill me, my father kills you, your father feeds my father's children to my mother. Where is the justice?

And as far as having knowledge that the person cannot hurt anyone else... that is what incarceration is for. There are several reasons why capital punishment has fallen out of favour. Think about it.

the cycle of violence can have a start and an end- the murderer in my personal example started it by killing two innocent people- it will end with his death, hopefully when he runs out of appeals.... but if allowed to I would end his life in a heartbeat- to use your analogy you have to believe that vengeance is evil - that to want to harm those that harm you is wrong- I have never, and will never, subscribe to a philosophy of turning the other cheek, because it does not work- stupid violence and over-reactive revenge is are a bad idea, but if harmed I will feel quite justified in harming someone back within reasonable proportion, indeed more than they harmed me- as this will tend to prevent further injury to me. I stress again that vigilanteeism is not what I advocate, nor reprisals out of proportion with the crime- but revenge is perfectly acceptable to me on principal and in practice......

So you're saying that if someone committed an evil act on you, you would return the evil? What do you mean by "reasonable proportion"? Do you mean "equal proportion"?

If someone commited a violent, evil act on me, I would not feel bad about doing something bad and violent to them- I would not rape someone who raped me, for instance, but I would surely shoot them dead without loosing sleep- and as to reasonable proportion, I feel that what they did and then a little more should be about right- this is meant to deter people who hurt others, so a little more visited on the perp seems like a good idea.

Are you a viking? :uhh:

I'm another person who thinks th cruel and unusual punishment clause shouldn't apply to cases like this. It might not make the victims feel any better, but it would make me feel better for knowing that they didn't get away with something.

For rape that is forceful, unwanted and violent my punishment would be to allow rats to eat the testicles of the violaters, while they are still attached. I would think that rape cases would decrease for some reason.

Consider yourself lucky that I wasn't around when the constitution was being written.

Amen to that.

And what would happen if you got the wrong guy? Should their family and loved ones now be able to dispense the kind of torture and punishment reflecting the pain and suffering you caused them by torturing to death the wrong person?

If you don't think this is possible, just look at the thread where a mob killed an innocent passenger of a car that accidentally hit someone.

Yeah, believe it or not, there actually is a thread going on right now where people are being extra sensitive not to offend others who may enjoy such activities. In fact the title thread was changed so as not to offend.

And isn't there compelling evidence that capital punishment is not a deterrent to homicide? Why would this sex crime be any different.

Electricity, lethal injection, rats chewing on testicles... they all sound pretty bad to me. What is the homicide rate like in Texas these days?


Try here for starters.

Apparently capital punishment is not even enough of a deterrent to "white collar" crime. China executes the most people in the world, even for things like corruption but it hardly stops them still.

i avoided reading this for a while because i knew it would upset me, and seriously, hearing that kind of stuff affects me to the core. i can't believe anyone would be that sick.

and using a condom?? wtf is the point of that? maybe they were afraid that if she got pregnant they would definitely be found guilty...but...ugh...

people are so sick...

no, I am not a viking, nor to my knowledge related to any- and I do not advocate mob violence- at all, anywhere- what I do advocate is granting the victims of a convicted violent criminal the right to decide his punishment, within parameters agreed upon by the community- harsh parameters, to be sure, but we are not talking about a lynch mob here- we are talking about the rights of the injured party to see justice done by their own hand if they so choose.......

So victims can choose from sentencing options set out by a jury or judge? That sounds patronizing to the victim, does it not?

Have you ever been a victim? I think you would find that many of them could handle this fairly well- and would welcome it......

Actually, yes, I have been a victim, and while at one point in my life I might have considered such an opportunity, this is no longer the case. The reason? I know it would do nothing but worsen my own situation. I cannot justify taking responsibility for someone's punishment based solely on the fact that I was the victim--especially in cases where punishment is severe. What is wrong with "an eye for an eye" is not merely what you do to others, it is what effect it has upon your self.

The reason why victims should not be given this power is due to the emotional stock they have in the situation. Justice should not be fueled by emotion, it should be based on reason.

you are entitled to your opinion, but I in my experience do not agree with it..... to each their own, and good luck....

Just out of curiosity, what would you consider to be a reasonable punishment for the assailants in this case?

not directed at me, but in my opinion, death- the people who did this are not going to reform, or be rehabilitated- the victims should decide the manner of their death....... or if they want, decide not to kill them in the hope they will reform.....

Whatever is in accordance with the laws of that jurisdiction; assuming they are considered reasonable within certain degree by, say, standards outlined by the United Nations.

I would say that, with the particular heinousness of these crimes, that sentencing should include many years of incarceration, but I imagine the rules are different if the accused will be tried in a juvenile court. (This is altogether another issue up for debate.)

Whether the guilty decide to spend their sentences brooding in anger or passing the time with remorse is entirely up to them. I know the victims didn't choose to be victims... but the assailants won't be able to choose the consequences--the outcome of their actions will be handed to them.

Your opinion is worrisome to me. How low should the death penalty go? ...and would the victims be able to skin the victims alive? Gouge out their eyes? Would this be televised? Would that restore harmony to society?

Your idea of justice isn't only sad, it is illogical. You condone wanton violence as a response to violence. This isn't justice, this is madness.

I'm from America and have a pretty basic understanding of the law to know this isn't how it works. I just have a fairly practical view of the justice system. In my opinion this is how the punishment/rehabilitation system should work....

If you are proven guilty, then the jury should first decide on whether or not they think you can be rehabilitated into a useful member of society.

If they think the guilty can be reformed, you're sent to a prison that specializes in reform and offers programs such as counseling, rehab, and job skills training. All the while you must work most of the day towards keeping the place running to earn your food, electricity, water, etc.

If they do not think you can be reformed, then the guilty is sent to a prison where the focus is on keeping the guilty seperated from the public. Like the reform prison, you have to earn your food and water. But there is no air conditioning, no electricity, no tv's, no creature comforts... just simply existence. I dont really see how someone who was found, unreformable, would be sentenced to only 10 or 15 years. Most likely only people that traditionaly get either sentenced to death or life in prison would be sent to these prisons. This being the case, you can life until you're no longer able to do the work to support yourself. Or to avoid the expense of keeping some one locked up for the rest of their life, you can simply shoot them and get it over with.

The people who committed the crime in discussion definetly don't show any signs of any future worth. Therefore I see no point in investing in keeping them alive.

Madness? This. Is. SPARTA!


But seriously, you think that human beings have come far from the middle ages where public executions were common place and even a form of entertainment. I don't necessarily want to say that you're wrong, because there is certainly a level of advancement, but people will always be people. That means that we, as humankind, will always want bloodshed in some type shape or form. While I do recognize a higher level of civilization, the primal instincts of brutal retaliation are still within us. This is why I am not surprised in the least by the responses here that propose torture or some form of killing.

yikes... kids are too crazy now a days

Eleanor Roosevelt: “Justice cannot be for one side alone but must be for both.”

No they won't.
Especially in Florida.

These guys are going away for a long time.
If that's part of your concern, feel assured that their punishment will be severe.

It is not turning the other cheek. Turning the other cheek leaves you vulnerable.
What people hope to do by putting criminals in jail is stopping those criminals from hurting you, or other people, again.
Revenge will bring more revenge. At least with prison, you're safe from the guy.

The English tried that once, but the convicts didn't 'deal with themselves.' Instead they all started saying 'g'day, mate' and spending a lot of time at the beach.

The problem here I reckon is one of separating the visceral response. This is an atrocity and there's a very real, emotional reaction involved. I think, however, that ratbastid has demonstrated in his car example that it's not always (or even very often) a good idea to follow through on the emotion.

Capital punishment is an issue that I'm not going to go into here, except to say that I don't support it.

Aside from that, objectivity is absolutely crucial in determining what the appropriate resolution is here. You and I don't have all the facts, we don't know exactly what went down. We have a decidedly and understandably sensationalistic news report. Sensationalism sells, but it rarely offers the whole truth. Maybe one of the boys is an essentially good kid who got caught up in the mob and found himself too deep to back out. Maybe there's hope for one or two of these guys. Or maybe they're all sociopathic monsters who should never again see the light of day. There will be more arrests; it's entirely possible that someone not involved in any way will end up being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't have any of this information. How can I possibly suggest what an appropriate punishment would be?

Fire, I don't know what your experience was, but it sounds very sad. Nevertheless, you will not heal until you learn to let it go and be okay with what happened. I know that's going to sound strange to you, but it's true all the same. I hope that when your attacker is punished it'll give you some peace, but I don't think that's particularly likely.

It saddens me a bit to know that there are people who are that afraid for their lives, whether it's a justified fear or not.

It makes me think twice about being social or neighborly. Who knows what people are packing behind those doors?

We have home invasions here- and my neighborhood has had a few since we bought the house- I own a home based business that has had a store front downtown, and we do local sales events, and we sell weapons- so quite a few people know that I might have cash / and or easily pawnable stuff on hand- my wife's mother was murdered, by a very bad man, who prior to this stalked my wife and her mom for about a year, and at one point assembled a bomb to blow them up (this is a matter of record from his trial) several of his friends testified to avoid jail time for helping him, and are still wandering around- Finally, my best friends are mostly active duty cops, deputies, or leo professionals of some stripe, and they will all state simply, that the police cannot protect anyone- they have no ability to effectively do anything until after a crime happens- call 911 all you like, it takes precious time for them to arrive- so yes, I follow a security procedure that involves being prepared if i answer my door and some nut job tries to force their way in - incidentally I also know and am on good terms with my neighbors- who are quite nice people really......and I do not, i should state, brandish a weapon to anyone who comes to the door after dark- having it does not require that anyone know it. the suggestions that I made are also, btw what the average neighborhood watch will tell you- except that they will say that you should not answer the door at all after dark - I would go with that too, except that 3 years ago a battered woman rang my doorbell at about 2am- I answered the door (armed) and called the cops for her- as bad as things can be, I try to give a shit and help when possible, but that same desire to help those in need was the very one that was exploited by the rapists in the case that started this discussion, and anyone would do well to become aware of basic personal safety rules......