Wow, Vegas cops taser national guard member... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ziadel · 06-13-2007, 06:16 PM

It's a video...
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8eb_1178867537

Quote:

Operation Iraqi Freedom Hero Solider being beaten and tased by 2 officers at Las Vegas Metro Police Dept. while another Las Vegas Metro Police Officer stands back and watches with his hands in his pockets thru glass doors, then laughs and makes a little skip as he makes fun of the Soldier's fall from the first of THREE tasings with a buddy TSA employee. This Soldier did NOTHING wrong and NO charges were filed against him~ Watch the ongoing investigation on ABC Las Vegas with Ben Deci reporting or on www.ktnv.com

Looks like the Vegas popo is gonna have some explaining tho.

and heres a print story for those of you who dont like the tele.

http://www.lvrj.com/news/6901262.html

Quote:

National Guard Sgt. Mark England came out of a tour of duty in Iraq with just a hand injury from an insurgent attack near Baghdad in 2004.

His trip to Las Vegas last month, however, ended with a police beating at McCarran International Airport that left him with three broken ribs, he said.

"I could understand if I was in Germany or a foreign country, but we're supposed to be on the same side," England said. "If it could happen to me, it could happen to anyone."

The 37-year-old Orange County, Calif., resident said the officer beat him with a nightstick after England got into an argument with a Transportation Security Administration agent who refused to let England take a soda through the security checkpoint last month. England said he also was shocked three times with a Taser before being taken to jail.

Lady Sage · 06-13-2007, 06:25 PM

Perhaps the police officers would like to be shipped to Iraq with nothing but their clubs and pepper spray and told to live for a month. That should be a fitting punnishment.

Willravel · 06-13-2007, 06:38 PM

So they beat him over a can of coke? That's a fishy story. No one deserves a beating like that, especially a hero, but that story is very fishy.

Lasereth · 06-13-2007, 06:48 PM

Not enough information in the article to make a decision on whether it was warranted enough. He did resist the cop and he was a smartass to them. He says he respects cops and was brought up to respect cops. Ok, then don't resist the cop and be a smartass. They went too far but he definitely had a part in the instigation. In my state if a cop places his hand on you and you resist it, you're toast. I can imagine it would be the same in a freaking airport.

ziadel · 06-13-2007, 07:03 PM

I dunno man, where I come from the police serve the best interest of all the people. even the smartasses. I'm inclined to say that if there was a justifiable reason for tasering/beating him in the first place, they would probably still have him in jail.

Ourcrazymodern? · 06-23-2007, 07:23 AM

"I know it sounds weird, but I have a problem being in the military and having some civilian tell me I'm wrong when I actually thought I was right," England said. "If I'm wrong, I'll admit I'm wrong. But it was their attitude they were giving me" that bothered him.

Maybe it was an attitude problem...

xepherys · 06-24-2007, 10:35 AM

I'm pretty sure having an attitude problem isn't illegal, even towards an officer of the law. In fact, this type of thing is happening more and more often lately. There was a story a year or so ago about that college kid getting tased in his campus library.

You know what? Resisting arrest IS a right, as far as I know, if you are being unlawful stopped. Citizens have a right to stand up for themselves if they are abiding the law.

Willravel · 06-24-2007, 11:11 AM

I don't think resisting arrest is a legally defendable right. It is, legally, a crime in and of itself, separate from the reason one is being questioned or followed by the police. I don't agree with it, as it gives the police way too much power, but it is the law. If a cop wants to arrest you for being black, they can. You'll be released, and the police station can easily be sued later, but if you resist that arrest, you're committing a crime.

xepherys · 06-25-2007, 12:11 AM

I always thought they had to furnish you with something more than "you're under arrest". Some basic reason that they believe you've actually broken a law.

The_Jazz · 06-25-2007, 04:37 AM

A couple of notes:

1) Being a war hero doesn't excuse you from being an asshole.
2) This guy got through security, went to his gate to see that he'd missed his flight and went back to security to confront the TSA folks. That means that he had to get on the shuttle train, walk all the way to his gate, get rebooked and then get back on the shuttle train.
3) The guy had an attitude from the beginning:

Quote:

"I know it sounds weird, but I have a problem being in the military and having some civilian tell me I'm wrong when I actually thought I was right," England said.

The police very well could have been wrong here, but blame is a 2-way street. Sgt. England definitely shares in that blame.

Xazy · 06-25-2007, 04:41 AM

Article

Quote:

O.C. soldier to sue Las Vegas police over arrest
Sgt. Mark England, recovering from broken ribs and bruises, seeks help of ACLU over airport incident.
By ERIK ORTIZ
THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER

STANTON – The physical scars are healing for a National Guard soldier beaten, bruised and struck with a Taser gun by Las Vegas police officers. But nearly three months later, the incident still rankles.

Unable to redeploy to Iraq because of injuries received March 10, Sgt. Mark England has enlisted the help of the American Civil Liberties Union in Nevada and a Las Vegas attorney for an impending lawsuit against the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department.

The Internal Affairs Bureau is reviewing the actions of two officers at McCarren International Airport, where England, 37, said he was hit so hard with a baton that he suffered three broken ribs and numerous bruises to his hands, arms, forehead and leg.

"I can't believe I made it all the way back from Iraq, and this happens to me here, at home," England, a 14-year soldier who served as a combat medic in Iraq, said in an interview in his Stanton home.

Bill Cassell, Las Vegas police spokesman, declined to comment last week on the investigation because it is ongoing, although the department has previously said the officers followed policy.

But England, who claims he was never physically aggressive toward the officers, said they were out of line. He's since been on radio talk shows, had his story on Internet blogs and appeared on a Las Vegas news station featuring footage of the incident taken from airport surveillance cameras.

"We've got evidence that doesn't make this a 'he said, she said' case," said Lee Rowland, staff attorney for the Nevada ACLU. "It's clear that Sgt. England posed no physical threat to those officers, and certainly from all the facts we have, there was no cause to use the Taser."

England was in Las Vegas for a vacation with a friend before a planned second deployment to Iraq. He was catching a flight back to Orange County when he tried to pass through a security checkpoint carrying an opened soda, a practice he's done at other airports, he said. But Las Vegas allows only drinks bought after the checkpoint.

England said he exchanged words with a TSA supervisor, who had claimed to be an Army lieutenant. When England, who was not in uniform, asked to see his military ID, the man refused.

The supervisor then let him go catch his flight, but England missed it and had to rebook. Still uncomfortable about the earlier exchange over the military ID, he sought out the TSA supervisor and asked to speak with a superior.

A Las Vegas police officer at the scene asked to see England's boarding pass. England said as he dug into his pockets he pulled out a dollar bill, at which point the officer threw the money to the floor. England asked him to pick it up.

The officer then tried to handcuff England, who said he rolled away on impulse. That's when the officer drew his baton and told him to get down, England said. Airport surveillance shows the officer swinging at England, who stands 6-foot-3 and weighs 200 pounds, and then a second officer on scene aiming a Taser at him.

Without warning, England said, darts hit his right forearm and abdomen. The officers told him to roll on his stomach, but he couldn't.

"I wasn't trying to stand back up after I got Tased," England said, "mainly because I couldn't."

After getting hit by a Taser a second and third time, England said, the officers were able to handcuff him. Paramedics checked him out and he was taken to a police substation, then the Clark County jail.

England said he was arrested on suspicion of violating airport rules and resisting arrest, although no charges were filed.

England's wife, Julianna, said she was shocked to see what had happened to her husband. The couple not only wants to see the officers fired, but also the establishment of more stringent Taser policies, as proposed by the ACLU.

Meanwhile, England isn't sure when he'll be redeployed to Iraq. He's undergoing physical therapy.

"It tears me up inside that I'm not there," he said Monday, after a doctor's visit. "It upsets me that they took a soldier out of the fight."

I agree the response was out of line, but he first did bring a liquid through, he did use the F word, he did go back and he did resist arest (an attempt to be handcuffed) by "rolling away."

It is hard to come to total judgement without all the facts. So I am going to reserve final judgement until we hear the police side.

dksuddeth · 06-25-2007, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

I don't think resisting arrest is a legally defendable right. It is, legally, a crime in and of itself, separate from the reason one is being questioned or followed by the police. I don't agree with it, as it gives the police way too much power, but it is the law. If a cop wants to arrest you for being black, they can. You'll be released, and the police station can easily be sued later, but if you resist that arrest, you're committing a crime.

there are some courts, including the supreme court, that would disagree with you. In fact, Texas law specifically states that lethal force can be used against law enforcement in very specific circumstances. There is alot of this that happens in parts of Illinois, especially just outside chicago, where the police will arrest you 'just because'. As for suing departments for wrongful arrest and other crap, forget it. There are very few courts anymore that will rule against the police in these instances citing bullshit 'public safety'.

The part of your quote that I bolded is part of whats wrong in this country today. People forget that those police are public SERVANTS and not some higher class of people that have been hand chosen to supervise the lowly civilian, namely you. If more people would stop being servile and start acting like actual american citizens, we wouldn't have to deal with this shit.

Darklight Adept · 06-26-2007, 12:11 AM

what annoys me about this, is that when I went thru McCarran the Saturday before Father's day, the TSA guys pulled my bag aside and refused to let me take my 2 SEALED 16 oz bottles of Dr. Pepper inside. But after the tram ride away from the TSA station I could BUY THE EXACT SAME THING.

This whole matter is over irrelevant shit.

The TSA dude was nice to me tho, he told me I could go back behind the TSA station, drink my soda, then come back thru if I wanted to. Soda was warm from being in my bag for 8 hours prior to that tho.

Menoman · 06-26-2007, 09:57 AM

I don't really see a point to this thread, seems like people are out to vilify police or authority figures too much lately. There are times for that kind of quest. Someone who is one of those 'elitist military' smartasses who resists arrest?

Not one of those times.

I'm fine with not being able to take some soda into an airplane, it's really not that unbelievable that someone could carry a substance onto a plane, not only explosive but perhaps biological.

westernredneck · 06-26-2007, 09:21 PM

For more acurate UP TO DATE info on this story go to~

www.myspace.com/boycottlasvegas

Baraka_Guru · 06-27-2007, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westernredneck

For more acurate UP TO DATE info on this story go to~

www.myspace.com/boycottlasvegas

I found this site a bit frightening. Perhaps we should go elsewhere for accuracy.

The_Jazz · 06-27-2007, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westernredneck

For more acurate UP TO DATE info on this story go to~

www.myspace.com/boycottlasvegas

Accurate? You're kidding, right?

Accuracy means the complete details, not one side's version of events. This site is propaganda, nothing less. The address tells you that before you even open it.

Jinn · 06-27-2007, 06:51 AM

ANY SITE THAT USES ALL CAPITAL LETTERS TO PRESENT THE "ACCURATE" TRUTH PROBABLY ISNT VERY ACCURATE.

Bill O'Rights · 06-27-2007, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westernredneck

For more acurate UP TO DATE info on this story go to~

www.myspace.com/boycottlasvegas

Oh, brother...

Well, westernredneck...I also noticed, amongst all of the other clutter on that site, that you have a link there hawking assorted bits of jewelry and clothing. You purport to be "supporting the troops with faith". Fine. But might I recommend supporting the troops with something a tad bit more tangible than "faith" and ribbon magnets. How about donating a fixed percentage of your proceeds to veteran based organizations, such as the American Legion or the V.F.W.? Just a thought.

EaseUp · 06-30-2007, 06:11 PM

There was a youtube posted within the last few days where a guy filmed his seven hours spent sitting on the tarmac on a Delta "flight."

I don't understand why anyone willingly flies anymore.

mobboss · 07-01-2007, 08:51 AM

did anyone see the video of the cop choking and then wrestling the skateboarders?

Willravel · 07-01-2007, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westernredneck

For more acurate UP TO DATE info on this story go to~

www.myspace.com/boycottlasvegas

If that page is any indication as to the personality of the national guard member, I'm not surprised he was slapped around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Article

A Las Vegas police officer at the scene asked to see England's boarding pass. England said as he dug into his pockets he pulled out a dollar bill, at which point the officer threw the money to the floor. England asked him to pick it up.

The officer then tried to handcuff England, who said he rolled away on impulse. That's when the officer drew his baton and told him to get down, England said. Airport surveillance shows the officer swinging at England, who stands 6-foot-3 and weighs 200 pounds, and then a second officer on scene aiming a Taser at him.

Without warning, England said, darts hit his right forearm and abdomen. The officers told him to roll on his stomach, but he couldn't.

So here's how I see it:

Officer: May I see your boarding pass?
England: *hands him a dollar bill, belligerently* (England = disrespectful prick)
Officer: *drops the dollar bill*
England: "Pick it up!" (defiant, disrespectful)
Officer: Alright, sir, com with me. *tries to handcuff England*
England: *quickly jerks away* (resisting what may have been an arrest)
Officer: *pulls baton* "get down on the ground!"

England was not cooperating with the police and his behavior was escalating and was becoming confrontational. You can't behave that way with police officers. I don't care if you're a vet or Jesus Christ, you just don't do that. I dunno if he deserved the taze and such, but he was being a complete asshole.

ziadel · 07-01-2007, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mobboss

did anyone see the video of the cop choking and then wrestling the skateboarders?

Yes I did, that was extremely disturbing.

heres the video of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH6AYVn2yw4

Willravel, I feel sorry for you, I really do. A cop cannot arrest you for being black just because he wants to. You are not obligated to allow police officers to arrest you unlawfully.

Willravel · 07-01-2007, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziadel

Willravel, I feel sorry for you, I really do. A cop cannot arrest you for being black just because he wants to. You are not obligated to allow police officers to arrest you unlawfully.

I go along with the bullshit arrest and sue the department for $1m? Yeah, things are going to be rough in my brand new Porsche. I hope you do feel sorry for me when my lawsuit makes police stations crack down on stupid gestapo police tactics and I actually help other people out there.

This guy wanted to treat the cop like shit so he did. Again, he didn't deserve the assault at all. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying was that he was an idiot not to follow simple instructions, and to act like a jackass to the cop. You don't fight the police head on. They can just shoot you. You simply use the system set up and teach them respect by showing them justice.

ziadel · 07-01-2007, 01:48 PM

I dont think you would be the first one to sue the cops, and yet I still read about them pulling asshat stunts almost daily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

They can just shoot you

Yupp, and I can just shoot them too. It's funny how where I live since I can openly carry shooting iron, all encounters I've had with the police while wearing my peice entail them being extremely polite and courteous. When I'm not openly carrying my firearm, they cop an attitude.

Willravel · 07-01-2007, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziadel

I dont think you would be the first one to sue the cops, and yet I still read about them pulling asshat stunts almost daily.

But has it gone down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziadel

Yupp, and I can just shoot them too. It's funny how where I live since I can openly carry shooting iron, all encounters I've had with the police while wearing my peice entail them being extremely polite and courteous. When I'm not openly carrying my firearm, they cop an attitude.

Quote:

In Nevada, you may carry a loaded or unloaded firearm on your person without a permit so long as the firearm is fully exposed (known as "open carry"). An example of open carry is when a handgun is carried in an "outside the pants" hip holster. Full or partial concealment (such as a purse, jacket, etc.) is considered "concealed carry" and is discussed below.

Turns out that being able to carry openly means exactly jack in the case above.

If you shoot a cop and survive, you're going to be in prison for the rest of your life as a cop killer. If they kill you, they get investigated and are back on the street in no time because you shot at them, excusing their firing upon you.

Act tough, but face reality.

ziadel · 07-01-2007, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

But has it gone down?

has what gone down? the instances of police abusing their authority? No like I said, I read about asshat cops pulling idiotic stunts almost daily.

And people have shot cops and not gone to jail Willravel, just because someone has a badge doesnt grant them carte blanche. There was a case of this just recently where a cop had a little road rage and threw down with a citizen, citizen plugged cop three times and it was cleared as a good shooting.

I'm not advocating shooting police officers at all. I'm just trying to point out to you that you dont have to allow a cop to violate your rights just so you can sue them post incident.

Willravel · 07-01-2007, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziadel

has what gone down? the instances of police abusing their authority? No like I said, I read about asshat cops pulling idiotic stunts almost daily.

Do you have any statistics?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziadel

And people have shot cops and not gone to jail Willravel, just because someone has a badge doesnt grant them carte blanche. There was a case of this just recently where a cop had a little road rage and threw down with a citizen, citizen plugged cop three times and it was cleared as a good shooting.

Just because someone signed up for the national guard out of high school doesn't give them cart blanche to mouth off to cops in an airport.

Do you have a link to that article?

ziadel · 07-01-2007, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Do you have any statistics?

Nope. Not gonna waste my time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Just because someone signed up for the national guard out of high school doesn't give them cart blanche to mouth off to cops in an airport.

Do you have a link to that article?

Just because someone mouths off to a cop, doesnt mean the cop can taser you.

Theres the story about the guy plugging the cop.

http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_159164139.html

Heres the kicker tho, I havent heard of the cop being charged with anything, and if its a justifiable shooting then the cop is guilty of a felony, no if ands or buts about it.

06-13-2007, 06:25 PM	#2 (permalink)
Lady Sage Mistress of Mayhem Location: Canton, Ohio	Perhaps the police officers would like to be shipped to Iraq with nothing but their clubs and pepper spray and told to live for a month. That should be a fitting punnishment. __________________ If only closed minds came with closed mouths. Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open. It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch.

06-13-2007, 06:48 PM	#4 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	Not enough information in the article to make a decision on whether it was warranted enough. He did resist the cop and he was a smartass to them. He says he respects cops and was brought up to respect cops. Ok, then don't resist the cop and be a smartass. They went too far but he definitely had a part in the instigation. In my state if a cop places his hand on you and you resist it, you're toast. I can imagine it would be the same in a freaking airport. __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

06-13-2007, 07:03 PM	#5 (permalink)
ziadel Myrmidon Location: In the twilight and mist.	I dunno man, where I come from the police serve the best interest of all the people. even the smartasses. I'm inclined to say that if there was a justifiable reason for tasering/beating him in the first place, they would probably still have him in jail. __________________ Ron Paul '08 Vote for Freedom Go ahead and google Dr. Ron Paul. You'll like what you read.

06-23-2007, 07:23 AM	#6 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	"I know it sounds weird, but I have a problem being in the military and having some civilian tell me I'm wrong when I actually thought I was right," England said. "If I'm wrong, I'll admit I'm wrong. But it was their attitude they were giving me" that bothered him. Maybe it was an attitude problem... __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

06-24-2007, 10:35 AM	#7 (permalink)
xepherys <3 TFP Location: 17TLH2445607250	I'm pretty sure having an attitude problem isn't illegal, even towards an officer of the law. In fact, this type of thing is happening more and more often lately. There was a story a year or so ago about that college kid getting tased in his campus library. You know what? Resisting arrest IS a right, as far as I know, if you are being unlawful stopped. Citizens have a right to stand up for themselves if they are abiding the law. __________________ The prospect of achieving a peace agreement with the extremist group of MILF is almost impossible... -- Emmanuel Pinol, Governor of Cotobato My Homepage

06-13-2007, 06:38 PM	#3 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	So they beat him over a can of coke? That's a fishy story. No one deserves a beating like that, especially a hero, but that story is very fishy.

06-24-2007, 11:11 AM	#8 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	I don't think resisting arrest is a legally defendable right. It is, legally, a crime in and of itself, separate from the reason one is being questioned or followed by the police. I don't agree with it, as it gives the police way too much power, but it is the law. If a cop wants to arrest you for being black, they can. You'll be released, and the police station can easily be sued later, but if you resist that arrest, you're committing a crime.

06-25-2007, 12:11 AM	#9 (permalink)
xepherys <3 TFP Location: 17TLH2445607250	I always thought they had to furnish you with something more than "you're under arrest". Some basic reason that they believe you've actually broken a law. __________________ The prospect of achieving a peace agreement with the extremist group of MILF is almost impossible... -- Emmanuel Pinol, Governor of Cotobato My Homepage

06-26-2007, 12:11 AM	#13 (permalink)
Darklight Adept Crazy Location: Houston, Tx	what annoys me about this, is that when I went thru McCarran the Saturday before Father's day, the TSA guys pulled my bag aside and refused to let me take my 2 SEALED 16 oz bottles of Dr. Pepper inside. But after the tram ride away from the TSA station I could BUY THE EXACT SAME THING. This whole matter is over irrelevant shit. The TSA dude was nice to me tho, he told me I could go back behind the TSA station, drink my soda, then come back thru if I wanted to. Soda was warm from being in my bag for 8 hours prior to that tho.

06-26-2007, 09:21 PM	#15 (permalink)
westernredneck Upright	For more acurate UP TO DATE info on this story go to~ www.myspace.com/boycottlasvegas

06-27-2007, 06:51 AM	#18 (permalink)
Jinn Lover - Protector - Teacher Location: Seattle, WA	ANY SITE THAT USES ALL CAPITAL LETTERS TO PRESENT THE "ACCURATE" TRUTH PROBABLY ISNT VERY ACCURATE. __________________ "I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

06-30-2007, 06:11 PM	#20 (permalink)
EaseUp Upright Location: SoCal, beeyotch	There was a youtube posted within the last few days where a guy filmed his seven hours spent sitting on the tarmac on a Delta "flight." I don't understand why anyone willingly flies anymore.

07-01-2007, 08:51 AM	#21 (permalink)
mobboss Upright	did anyone see the video of the cop choking and then wrestling the skateboarders?