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why are poor people fat?
d'jever notice lots of "poor" people are fat? why is that? you would think being poor would mean they are starving, and so they would be skinny. a few hundred years ago, being fat meant you were wealthy and well off, a status symbol, and now only the "rich" seem to be able to be thin.
the only thing i can think of is that "poor" people buy cheap food, which is processed, which is unhealthy, which makes you fat. taco bell, mcdonalds, etc, all have $1 menus, you can eat there every day cheaply, and that will make you fat. i use the terms "rich" and "poor" reletively. thing is..i've seen real no kidding poverty. those people were skinny, unhealthy skinny, because they didn't have money for food. they also didn't have a radio, clothes, cigarettes, or a car, or a phone, etc. many "poor" americans are living better than poor folks in other countries. but i see homeless americans (real homeless, the guys sleeping on the side of the road with shoes so old thier feet stick out) who are fat, and i wonder, how can you be fat if you are starving and poor? |
lower income individuals don't have typically have the money to buy proper nutrition for themselves. Two bucks goes a long way at a fast food place, whereas, a yogurt costs a dollar and doesn't fill one up.
Plain and simple, it's expensive to eat healthful foods and when it comes down to having the money to eat or not eat, I understand why someone would choose fast food. And if that's all you're inputting into your body, weight gain is going to happen. |
Starvation doesn't really exist in this country. Even the homeless get fairly regularly.
Otherwise, you're right on the money. Cheap food is processed food and lacking in a lot of nutritional needs. That doesn't mean that folks aren't getting enough calories (the opposite actually), just that they aren't getting the right stuff. That kind of diet will lead to weight gain since the body basically gets high-carb foods without much protein or trace elements. |
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Actually some amount of starvation, malnutrition and hunger does happen in this country and more than you would think. This includes many families who just plain do not know where they next meal is coming from and children are often the ones who suffer, many people in this country actually go to bed hungry. In my work in Human Services, I have seen it for myself. stats: "Hunger Facts: Domestic Hunger persists in the U.S. 35.1 million people—including 12.4 million children—live in households that experience hunger or the risk of hunger. This represents more than one in ten households in the United States (11.0 percent). 1 3.9 percent of U.S. households experience hunger. Some people in these households frequently skip meals or eat too little, sometimes going without food for a whole day. 10.8 million people, including 606 thousand children, live in these homes.1 7.1 percent of U.S. households are at risk of hunger. Members of these households have lower quality diets or must resort to seeking emergency food because they cannot always afford the food they need. 24.4 million people, including 11.8 million children, live in these homes.1 Research shows that preschool and school-aged children who experience severe hunger have higher levels of chronic illness, anxiety and depression, and behavior problems than children with no hunger. 2 " http://www.bread.org/learn/hunger-ba...-domestic.html Thanks, sweetpea |
Maybe it's because some poor people are lazy, which make them both fat and poor. They can spend $4 on McDonalds, or they can spend $4 on a loaf of bread, some sliced meat, and a head of lettuce, and make sandwiches for a week which are a fuck-load more healthy.
How about we examine the choices, intentions, and lifestyle of those who are considered "victims" before we go after third parties with completely baseless accusations of wrong-doing. It is not McDonald's fault if you're fat. It's your fault, because you are fucking eating at McDonald's. |
Sweatpea, I think I used "starvation" incorrectly, although I'm struggling to come up with an alternative. In my mind, it is much more of an immediate health threat and cause of death in the mold of a concentration camp or drought-plagued area.
Your use, which is much more accurate I think, would (again in my mind) be more akin to rural Mississippi in the 40's and 50's when malnutrition was rampant. Quote:
Sliced meat - 1/2 lb at $2.99 per 1/2 lb (the usual grocery store measurement) Head of iceberg lettuce - $1.29 I get $5.17 before taxes. Let's leave aside for a moment that iceberg lettuce has very little nutritional value, although it is the most popular one sold (it is a good source of fiber). Or the fact that the bread would be the highly processed and devoid of much nutritional material. How do you make a half pound of meat stretch for a week without going hungry on 1 meal a day? |
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I disagree with this "poor people have to eat at Rotten Ronnie's" mentaltity.
Not sure what the prices in the US are, but in Canada, if I were to feed my family at McD's, even going with the cheapest options, it's still about $12-13 with taxes for one meal. I could make a big pot of rice and beef, or tuna and pasta, or any number of nutritious, filling meals that would feed us all for several meals for that same money. I don't know what the factual evidence is for the poor being fatter - yeah, I see fat poor people, I see a lot of fat middle class people too. |
I agree with the notion that it has more to do with laziness than anything else. There are plenty of good foods that are cheap... but not a whole lot of good foods that are ready-to-eat. If you watch the food network, you'll see that 90% of the meals cannot be prepared in 3-steps or less.
Also, I hate to say it... but it also has a lot to do with marketing and packaging. There are lots of commercials for fast food and junk food... but when was the last time you saw a commercial for apples or bananas? These lower-income families fall victim to that marketing because they essentially don't know any better. Education of proper dieting is the first step. Someone needs to teach these families exactly how they can stretch their income further and receive proper nutrition by doing the extra planning and preparation by eating healthier foods. |
There's probably a correlation between income and education. It takes some know-how to be able to plan your diet effectively on a tight budget. If you're poor, you may not be in circumstances which lead you to know that rice and beans are the way to go.
I think there's also a cultural aspect. I wonder how many poor people are fat outside of North America. The dominant flavors in our society are fat, salt, cheese and sugar. If you're brought up on McDonald's it's torture to eat actual beans. Most people probably don't even know what a decent tomato tastes like. |
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As for the difference between an apple and fries... well hell, I try to eat my apples-a-day and all, but DAMN. Hot, salty fries just taste better. I'm not poor, and I'm not fat, but it's still effin' hard to resist McDonald's fries if they're easily accessible. That's why I just try to avoid the place altogether. Living in Iceland, poor people ain't eating McD's though... everything is 2 to 3 times the price it is in the US, which makes a family of 4 at McD's about a $100. Yeah. The rich and middle-class people are the fat ones, here. I don't think it's that much different in the US. Also keep in mind that white-collar workers usually can afford gym memberships and have free time to go running, yoga, etc... whereas if you're a blue collar factory worker putting in 50-60 hours a week, you're not going to want to spend your free time in the downward dog position. Food, sex, sleep. That is about all I have the energy and time to think about, when I'm done at the factory... and I'm not even working half that many hours. |
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i'm a college student, money used to be very tight for me, especially when i had no job and all i was doing for money was day trading, durring those few months where income was sketchy at best, i lived on pasta. i'd pick up a small portion of meat, and a lot of pasta, i can make about a gallon of good meat marinara for about 5 bucks, pasta as we all know is dirty cheep, i could live off $40 a week, it was rough, and it sucked, but i did it. this morning, i had shrimp Alfredo, a quarter pound of shrimp goes a long way if you slice it right, splash of cream, cheep white wine (2 buck chuck), salt and pepper, and were finished at about $5 however, not many people know how to make a good tasting meal for cheep, they'd rather go to a fast food place that tastes 'good' (i can't stand fast food, makes me sick every time) then take the time to make it them selves. remember a lot of the low income families, have 2 or 3 jobs, and have no real free time after work, so fast food is a quick alternative. |
I live in a rather poor neighborhood, most of the people here aren't fat. Take this fact with another, namely that obesity effects people from every socioeconomic category I guess i don't see where the "poor" part happens to come in.
I think a more interesting question is why certain folks find it necessary to lump poor folks together in a package conveniently labeled with tired and misinformed justifications for their poverty. It's like they need some sort of way to blame the poor for their plight instead of the obvious and reality-based conclusion that american capitalism can't function without a broad underclass. "Poor people deserve their position because they are dumb and lazy" seems to be the underlying assumption. Which is why you get answers to the question in the op of the "well, it's obviously because they are lazy and stupid" variety. |
It's about addiction, not just about knowing something is healthy. Many, many scientists (people with bigger brains than I) have stated that fast food may be as addictive as heroine. One can become dependant on the high levels of sugar and fat found in fast food like one might find at McDonalds.
Yes, everyone knows that an apple is more healthy than fries, but if someone wants the fries more than the apple....you get the idea. As someone who is still battling with food addiction (mine was psychological, whereas the addiction to fast food is both psychological and physical), I can tell you it's not as easy as walking to Safeway instead of Burger King. |
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My point was that "poor" people are most likely working too hard for low pay to really have time or care for being "healthy" (and by working hard, they are therefore not "lazy," quite the opposite I would say!). I see it every day in the factory. When you are that tired, and you have no capital to speak of... yes, you want life to be easy. We all do. It's just that most of us (on this forum, I would guess) can afford to make our lives easier AND healthier... whereas many poor people can barely do either one, and comfort is going to take higher priority over health. Poverty demands a focus on the short-term, not on the long-term, because it's simply not financially feasible to think farther ahead than tomorrow or the next paycheck or meal. |
Well, let me say that i'm certainly not not poor, and i eat just fine when i have the time. My diet is pretty healthy, and i generally get a good amount of exercise. I'm still overweight.
I think a more interesting question would be why people who aren't poor are fat. I mean, they obviously have the smarts and the money and the drive, right, so why on earth would they be fat? Could it be that there are other issues at hand? |
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/106000...tarving300.jpg
real poor people are not fat. Freeganisms show that there is plenty of food thrown away http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/07/freegans_tv.php Quote:
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Just fyi, some people can take heroin and not become addicted. Tell you what, have a big mac every day for a week, then see if you crave one the next week. Now imagine you're poor and you find that the best spot to beg is in front of a fast food restaurant, where there's plenty of petty cash and change, so you eat 3 meals a day there. |
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Honestly, it's way more complicated than you think, and the fact that you keep repeating 'idiot' just makes you look insensitive and presumptuous. I'm not saying you are presumptuous, but if you keep insisting that addiction is a symptom of being an idiot, you're not going to make yourself look all that good. Again, I'm not an expert, but I do have some training and some experience with addiction. I can assure you that being addicted to something rarely has something to do with being an idiot. |
Guys, back off.
No one is addicted to fast food. To compare it to heroin is disingenuous. To say that an addiction can be conquered by force of will is foolish and speaks out of ignorance of addiction. |
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Addiction itself is separate from becoming addicted to something. Rather than comment on the hilarious "big mac = heroin" theory you're purporting, let's instead focus on heroin itself. Heroin is bad. It is an addictive substance. Do I want to become addicted to heroin? No. Do I, then, use heroin? No. Is heroin a necessary desire, a "need" for anyone? No. Should, then, anyone use heroin who does not seek to become addicted to it? No. Do people wake up one day addicted to heroin? No. At some point a heroin addict made a stupid decision, followed by another stupid decision, and then another. People who repeatedly make stupid decisions are idiots. I don't feel sorry for idiots when they destroy themselves. That said, I support the legalization of heroin. Quote:
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Seretogis, I'd appreciate your responses to posts other than Will's... e.g. mine, Filtherton, and Dilbert's. Let's have a discussion here, gents.
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Um... Poor people aren't fat.
AMERICAN'S are fat. |
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I swear to god, Americans have become a bunch of whiny victims.
How long before we're told that whining is addictive and people who whine about shit all day long just can't help it? I've heard people bitch that portions at restaurants are too large, but what do they do? They eat every fucking thing that's put in front of them, then bitch that they ate too much. I have no sympathy for fat people - I don't give a shit if it's genetic or not. You're not fat because you have a genetic problem; you're fat because you take in more calories than you burn - it's simple science and transfer of energy. Don't tell me you get fat because you ate one apple. You got fat because you ate 5 twinkies a day for 10 years and your only exercise was lifting the remote to change the channel. Money has nothing to do with it. |
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Speaking to the OP, one who is homeless is bound to have at least some psychological issues, and it's possible that those issues may lead to psychological addictions. If you combine that possible tendency to the possibility of certain unhealthy foods being physically addictive, and you may have an explanation as to why some homeless people are overweight. Homeless people probably are also under a great deal of stress, and their exercise is sporadic at best (some homeless people walk all day, some stand around all day). If you combine poor eating habits with stress and poor exercise, you have a recipe for weight management problems. That's the reason I think that some homeless people may be overweight. |
I see many valid points in this thread, but I think that the one I agree with the most is the point about processed foods. Nutritionally, they can make you fatter because of the high amounts of refined sugars and trans fats, and they are cheap to buy. Although I can also agree with the fact that some healthy foods are cost effective as well, processed foods are also easy to prepare and they taste good. When I was single and had to cook all of my meals all by myself, I often found myself grabbing a quick pizza or sub rather than preparing a salad because it was convenient, especially after a hard day at work. The hit I took for it was that the convienient food was less nutritious. I'm sure lower income people, who probably work more mentally draining jobs (waitress, cashiers, clerks) have little desire to prepare meals at the end of the day, especially if they are coming home to a house with children (and no spouse) or getting ready for another low end job at night just to make ends meet. Some might call this being lazy, but convience can bring peace of mind to those who have little peace in their lives.
About fast food and junk foods being addictive, there is scientific proof that this can happen. Once addicted, it's hard to break the addiction, even with high doses of will power. Withdrawal symptoms are common! Anyone who is interested in the addictive power of McDonalds food should go rent the movie "Super Size Me". Although the story is a bit one-sided, it really makes you think about the harmful effects of fast food. Oh, and I believe that obesity can hit everyone equally (lattes and Haagen-das aren't health food), but lower-income people tend to fall into the trap more easily. |
Yeah, its not a matter of being rich or poor. It's either genetic, or its issues of personality. I can't entirely blame people for taking shelter in addictions...life ain't always easy. I would imagine if people had a choice, they would choose not to be fat, or addicted to crack, or do other self-destructive things. Not everyone has the same amount of mental fortitude, sometimes its hard to have courage. Everyone has a weakness of one sort ot another. In saying that, the choices people do make are their own.
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Anyway, sounds like you're a pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps type. If we expand this to the international level of poverty analysis, you'd strike me as being in the modernization camp. Chalk me up to being a world systems/dependency theorist, which I take as meaning we're fundamentally opposite in our viewpoints on the topic and therefore will not yield any ground in such a debate. So it goes. Quote:
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I think the whole issue revolves around people taking responsibility for themselves. If you're fat, realize why you are fat and fix it. Do you have to work to do that? Hell, yeah. But if people don't want to buy and consume healthy food and move the body in some way, then they will stay fat. And that is not only an unattractive sight, but carries many health risks. Survival of the fittest I suppose... Even if a person is working crazy schedules and is pulled every which way...how hard is it to make a pot of beans and rice? Yes, you do have to open the can and boil the rice and wait about 20 minutes. I guess that is exhausting for some people. Don't like beans and rice? There are a ton of cheap 30 minute or less meals that are extremely tasty and healthful. The main reasons that I see, in no particular order, are: 1) lack of nutritional education 2) lack of self-control/discipline 3) laziness 4) genetics Lack of money isn't the issue..healthy food is actually somewhat cheaper, as has been mentioned earlier in this thread. Quote:
Generational poverty is what I'm most familiar with. The parents are poor, they realize that their lives are shit too late and want better for their children. However, they don't know how to help their children because they didn't try in school and don't have the education. The kids see that in their parents and instead of thinking, "Wow, I don't want to be like my mom or dad." They think in their child brain, "My parents ain't got no education and we do fine." Then they grow up and realize too late that they should have taken advantage of the free education...and hence the generational cycle. So while people may be trying, they are trying too late. People who hit a bump in the road and find themselves flat broke have the resources (i.e. education) to get out because they tried in the past and are still trying now. While it might take a while to dig out, the past accomplishments help. |
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My point was that, in general, lower-income families are also less educated. I wouldn't be surprised if a large percentage couldn't fill out a food pyramid or even tell you the main food groups, so I highly doubt they are going to know what a balanced diet looks like... which means they are more susceptible to marketing because, like I said, they essentially don't know any better. They just know they're hungry and that a Super-Sized Big Mac Meal sounds delicious. Fast food marketing spins their product to look tasty and desireable. They know the nutritional value is lacking, so they don't talk about it... they try to appeal to people in other ways, such as cheap pricing and quick service... and it works. But you're right, that is exactly why Subway DOES mention their nutrition information in their marketing. It's a competitive advantage they have over McDonalds, Burker King, etc. However, I would much rather own a McDonalds franchise than a Subway franchise... any day of the week. |
Good point, dirtyrascal. I've never even seen a commercial for apples (cept for those trendy iPod commercials).
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Why is is that the only poor people who are fat live in the Western world. You certainly don't see too many fat poor people in third world countries. That would tend to indicate that there is a factor other than just being poor, for instance perhaps it is more about the type of food that is easily available to poorer people, the culture within the lower socio-economic classes or the education of poorer people.
Then again, perhaps it is not that poor people are fat in the west, but that fat people are poor because they are too bloody lazy to get off their fat arses. |
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Also, a big mac does fit in the food pyramid. Meat, vegetables, dairy, and maybe fruit (again the tomato), it's all on the big mac and french fries (potatoes...er they're supposed to be anyway) are vegetables. The important thing they don't understand or don't care about is that the grease and processed goodness of it all is making it unhealthy. Anyway, it's not so much that they don't know that the food is unhealthy, it is more that they don't know how to cook. It's amazes me how many people don't know how to cook and opt for take-out or pre-made foods. Of course, to cook you have to be able to read and do math...lack of education can hinder you from doing this even if you have the measuring cups. Plus, if you are poor, do you really have the $50 to toss out for cheap pots and pans? It's expensive to get kitchen supplies. |
There are other factors too.
1. If you aren't eating enough or healthy, doesn't the body store whatever food you do eat as fat in anticipation? 2. Some of the fat poor people (homeless people) may have a disease too. I'm not too sure, but I think there may be some disease or condition that causes a person to bloat or store fat even though they don't eat well or regularly. Kind of like the starving African kids with the distended bellies. 3. Eating poorly is a direct result of getting in a bad cycle. I have occasionally gone through this. When I am working too much, don't have enough time and exhausted all the time, I turn to McDs etc. Tyring to buy a little time at the expense of my health. During that cycle I look like crap - skin is bad, poor energy levels, and feel like crap from all the fat clogging my veins. So it's not much of a stretch to see why poor people could end up in this situation. During one of my college years, I always gained 5-10 lbs during finals week. I would essentially not shave, bathe or change clothes for a week, staying up all night studying, and eating crappy. I looked like a homeless guy. On addiction. I think cigarettes are the most addictive besides coffee. Heroin addicts quit heroin before they quit smoking. Quitting takes will power, discipline and commitment. |
First off, I don't think it is just lower income people in the West that are fat. Obesity is a problem across all income strata.
Secondly, it isn't just fast food that is the issue. The issue is processed food. I cannot find the statistic now but I was reading recently that the average person needs roughly 1500 calories per day. To purchase 1500 calories of healthy, fresh food, costs around $5.00 to $6.00. To purchase the same 1500 calories in processed foods... $1.50 to $2.00. Have a look at the supermarket the next time you are there. Have a look at how the food aisles are set up. Where are the healthy foods in relation to the processed foods? How are processed foods marketed vs. fresh? Processed food is not only higher in calories, it is usually ready to consume (marketed as time saving). High in the ingredients list of most processed foods is High Fructose Corn syrup (or other starches and sugars derived from corn). The US subsidy of the farming industry has left you with a massive surplus of corn that scientists have worked hard to find uses for. It has been used in everything from Coke and Cereal to Bread and Canned Goods. The interesting thing is that it frequently isn't being used as a substitute for a previously used ingredient (like substituting cane sugar for corn sugar) but rather is being used in addition to the other substances (e.g. it is added to the top of mass produced bread to make sure it goes that lovely shade of golden brown). The end result is higher calories and lesser quality foods at cheaper prices. I haven't even got into the ideas of portion control, high starch diets being cheaper than low (i.e. pasta, potatoes, etc.), the deep fryer vs. baking, junk food for snacks... etc. The whole food supply and how it is consumed is problematic in the west. Food is cheap there. Bad food is cheaper. You can eat excessive calories and stuff yourself and still be on a budget. This has nothing to do with your income level. |
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Thing was, there usually wasn't ANY shelf space for healthy food, because it didn't exist. Tasty Kakes were readily available (typically 20+ grams of fat in one muffin!), as was whole milk, white bread, non-baked chips, Stouffer's full-fat frozen dinners, high-sugar cereals, non-diet soft drinks, full-fat franks, and the like. There was usually some overripe, if not rotting fruit and tomatoes, though the supply of potatoes and onions was decent and plentiful. There was maybe one "supermarket" in the whole area, and you had to walk a hell of a long ways to get there (or take the bus... neither of which are very fun in 90+ degree weather with very high humidity). My job was to check and see how many low-fat, healthy options there were for people in low-income areas. It turned out that there were almost none. In a few places, on the margins of the ghetto (near the gentrifying areas, or around colleges like Temple or Penn), there were shops with some healthier foods. But otherwise, it was all shit to eat. Occasionally I would find a loaf or two of whole-wheat bread, some good bananas, and low-fat milk... but these were usually on the edge of expiration, and when I asked the owners about why they didn't stock more, they said that the stuff never sold well and demand was low. People didn't seem to know or care about the healthy food, and it was usually more expensive anyway. They went with what they knew, what they grew up with... the Stouffer's meatloaf, Tasty Kakes, and gobs and gobs of high-fructose corn syrup, as Charlie said. Now, this gives some evidence to the cultural debate and education levels, but it also points to income and the inability of many of the residents to afford the big supermarket and the means to get there. You could argue that they could kill two birds with one stone by walking 30 blocks to the supermarket and burning calories in the meantime, but shit... in a Philly summer? I don't think I'd even make it. Maybe it's culture and education. Maybe it's the built environment and the unwillingness of city planners to create a healthy living space and access to decent food in low-income areas. Maybe it's all of the above, added up with something else altogether. But I saw it with my own eyes. And I don't know how many of us would act so differently, given the same circumstances. |
Calorie to calorie, yes it's cheaper.
Full to full? That's another story. An apple has, on average, 81 calories. A Big Mac without cheese has 576 calories. Imagine you had a choice: 1 Big Mac, or 7 apples. Which would fill you up more? I'd guess the apples. 1 Big Mac = 7 apples 6.6 bananas 7.5 heads of lettuce 9.6 pears apple = $.56 per (at Safeway), x 7 = $3.92 I'm not sure how much a Big Mac is, but I think the point is clear. You can get more healthy food for cheaper. |
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http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/ma...a17c0e&ei=5070 Here are some other things to consider: our food supply systems into the inner cities of the United States do not work well. The availability of fresh produce in those areas is low. Consider NYC: most produce found at local bodegas is badly bruised and low-quality. Where is a poor person supposed to get their greens? This has led to an expansion of the NYC Greenmarket program, and allows users of food stamps to purchase produce at Greenmarkets. As far as I've read on the issue, that is really the only place for low-income residents to get good produce--the other choice is Whole Foods, and obviously an apple from Whole Foods is going to cost a lot more. The fact is that it's a combination of lack of resources, lack of time, and lack of education about nutritional options and programs. People who work 40+ hours a week are exhausted at the end of the day, and and so they want to have foods that are easy to prepare. As Charlatan already pointed out, these prepared foods (the kind you find for cheap in the center aisles) are not the best nutritionally, but they are easy to make and don't require much skill. Lack of money leads them to choose something cheap, lack of time leads them to choose something fast, and lack of skill leads them to choose the easiest option. The fact is, modern American society is too busy working to learn how to cook--and this extends up into the middle class, as evidenced by the proliferation of outfits such as Dream Dinners and Super Suppers, and it's evidenced by a recent piece by Dr. Gupta on CNN about blaming working mothers for childhood obesity (Dr. Gupta's piece concluded that it was a variety of factors). Economically speaking, the United States is putting a lot of people between a rock and a hard place regarding food quality and security. We are subsidizing hundreds of acres of crops that are going to do nothing but make us fat (thank you HFCS). With the decline in secure blue collar labor, the squeeze is on lower middle class families to have two working parents in order to make ends meet. Additionally, we are only beginning to increase access to locally grown crops and quality produce everywhere. Those of us who live in the suburbs take our sanitized Safeways for granted. The fact is, a great number of people in our country do not shop at Whole Foods or Safeway. They shop at Wal-Mart or the local corner store, because the first is cheaper and the second is easier and the most accessible. When you're exhausted, poor, and stressed out, you take a break where you can get it. |
The idea that poor people are lazy is offensive. Taken to the next logical step you'd say that the poverty is self induced. A myth propagated by the rich to cover their responsibility.
Wealth causes poverty. The so called Third World wasn't poor until capitalism invaded and took its toll, sucking the life out of every country it bestowed with its benevolence. You're not convinced? History will back me up but be careful of which historian you trust. The Roman Empire, The British Empire The Empire of the US they're all responsible. Greed and capitalsim are one in the same, they oppose democracy it's their enemy. |
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Here's the real question...
If farm subsidy didn't exist, and processed foods were not cheaper would the poor be able to afford to eat? If we had to pay the "real" cost of food, would the American way of life collapse? |
actually being fat in other countries is becuase of inflammation, thats why they are really round in the stomach
atleast when you are poor and can't afford food |
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Also, I too believe that this whole issue isn't just about poor people. I think your risk of being overweight or obese is increased by a number of factors. Here's one example; below is an interesting list of stats: Quote:
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Re: To topic starter...
Well, think of it this way: Maybe they aren't poor and "fat," but poor because they are "fat..." I mean, I eat fastfood a lot, and it adds up quickly! A practical meal from Jack In the Box or McDonald's is $6.00 or more... |
Having worked for 2 supermarket chains, I'll tell you what the cheapest food is...it's not rice and beans, it's Top Ramen. It's store brand macaroni and cheese and store brand vienna sausages and store brand Hamburger Helper and Rice a roni. It's certainly not fresh produce and it's certainly not lean cuts of meat or quality cheese or milk. If you want cheap cheese, it's pastuerized processed cheese food. Store brand canned veggies are cheap too...but canned veggies have very little nutrition, though plenty of people don't know that. It's the same cost to buy a box of store brand cookies or crackers as 2 or 3 good sized apples, and if the cookies are on sale...it's cheaper. More "exotic" produce like melons, plums, oranges, decent tomatoes, actually pretty much anything but bananas, potatoes, or onions, are even more expensive than the apples (unless they are on sale). If you are looking to feed your family and get the most for your money, then that's what you buy...processed, easy to prepare foods that are full of fat, sugar, and preservatives.
When I was a cashier, I got to know a lot of my customers fairly well. I worked in a low income area, and many of the people held two jobs to support their families. Most weren't lazy; they were stressed, tired, and trying to make their dollar stretch as far as possible, regardless if they were fat or not. |
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I don't know if I am really buying the whole argument that poor people are fat. Where is this information coming from? If you see a fat person who is poorly dressed, it doesn't mean they are poor necessarily. I don't recall walking into a grocery store and thinking that the healthier foods are more expensive, in fact I think they are cheaper.
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8kg. $7.69 ($0.10/100g) Unico Black Beans: 398ml $0.99 ($0.18/100ml) (Prices in $CDN) ...so, 100ml of rice (doubles when cooked) and 100ml of beans would cost $0.28 and could possibly be one serving. This would be even cheaper if you bought a large bag of dry beans instead of canned. I don't recall seeing many deals for $0.28 boxes of mac and cheese (which require added milk and oil). And a serving of Ramen or sausages don't have the same balance of nutrients as rice and beans... they might even be more expensive than the rice and beans in this case, too. If people shopped in bulk and planned ahead, their food costs would plummet. |
pornclerk says:
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A university here is working on that- we're trying to explain nutrition, cheap and fast but healthy recipes, and how to stretch a meager amount of food benefit dollars- but it's hard to make some of the ideas stick. I know just how easy it is to buy ramen and have a quick, crappy, nutritionally empty meal rather than cook the rice and the beans. Back to the OP, though- this really is part of the problem. The "bad" food is easier and tastier, and you don't have to work for it. |
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http://jech.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/59/8/670 (Conclusions: Obesity, diabetes mortality, and calorie consumption were associated with income inequality in developed countries. Increased nutritional problems may be a consequence of the psychosocial impact of living in a more hierarchical society.) http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1448278 (from Finland - findings showing it's not just low income that's linked with obesity, but in fact obesity is linked with income as a gradient. Results. Compared with their normal-weight counterparts, obese women with higher education or in upper white-collar positions had significantly lower income; a smaller income disadvantage was seen in overweight women with secondary education and in manual workers. Excess body weight was not associated with income disadvantages in men.) http://www.nber.org/digest/feb03/w9247.html ("The incidence of obesity is most prevalent among those sectors of the workforce (chiefly low-end wage earners, women, non-whites) whose real income has fallen even as more hours are devoted to work.") It's not just in the US - I found studies from Thailand, Finland (above), the UK, Canada, etc. We're not just making this up based on anecdotal evidence. Quote:
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Any time that you look for convenience you will be sacrificing something for it. This is true of anything. Use an ATM? You sacrifice practically all customer service you would receive if you went into a bank and spoke with a bank teller. Buy pre-sliced, pre-cooked sandwich meat? You are sacrificing some healthiness thanks to preservatives and such in exchange for being able to take it right out of the package. Anyone who understands that "nothing is free" will comprehend this trade-off. Unfortunately Welfare-State programs reduce our most-poor to a state in which they expect things for free, and feel they are entitled to them. Therefore, they do not understand the notion of trade-offs, of positive and negatives, of working to better themselves physically and economically. :) |
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Hey... I just woke up... And I never said I was perfect. |
Personally, I think that the whole Atkins bullshit has something to do with it. From listening to my average intelligence parents talk about how fruit is bad because it contains carbs, and a big greasy pile of bacon is ok. I can completely understand why there are so many fat people out there. These people who eat at McDonalds and think they are doing themselves a favor by throwing out half the bun are just fooling themselves and buying into another simple but wrong solution.
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seretogis says:
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Stagnation suggests laziness, and lack of forethought / determination / intelligence. If I did nothing but go to work at 9am and leave at 5pm, doing the same job over and over for 10 years, I would be lazy. Luckily, I constantly have a project or three going on the side in hopes of expanding my skillset and becoming a more valuable asset to myself in the process. A relevant link/story: http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/The-Indexer.aspx click to show Quote:
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So let me rephrase for you ;) : "d'jever notice that lots of <s>"poor"</s> people are fat?" The reasons have been discussed throughout this thread many times. Although, addiction is probably too strong a word ... habit is a better word ... poor eating habits. Taco Bell's Crunchwrap Supreme is awesome (I love 'em) ... but the 700+ calorie cost is just not worth it to me (not to mention the artery clogging). Yet, I see people eating them every day at lunch. Add the 32 oz. of Mountain Dew that most students drink and you're talking a 1000+ calorie lunch. Then there's the snacks and Starbucks drinks. You get my point. These kids can AFFORD to eat healthy; presumably they have a pretty good education since they are going to this particular school and yet they STILL eat badly. |
it seems to me that there is abundant information already in this thread to show that what is clearly lazy and stupid is the idea that anything about either poverty of obesity--not to mention their intertwining--can be explained by saying that the poor are lazy and stupid.
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Blaming the poor for their own plight is a tasty little ideological morsel that lets us all off the hook and blurs the lines of a complex situation. Every time we get into this argument it always comes back to the same face-off: Argument 1: people are 100% responsible for their own situation; Argument 2: social factors overwhelm individual choice, making it harder to choose your own path.
IT'S ALWAYS BOTH/AND, PEOPLE!!! It's a poor excuse for a society that doesn't have some kind of back-up plan for when Plan A (100% personal responsibility) doesn't work, and it never will. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes (say, an average-intelligence kid born into a dysfunctional family with limited means) and see how much indomitable free will you feel like you have. It's difficult to make educated choices that are in your best interest when the options and information at hand are somewhat limited by institutional and social factors beyond your control. |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem convinced that "poor people" are, in effect, lazy and stupid. |
Seretogis, how do you explain fat rich people? Obviously they aren't lazy or stupid because they are rich, so how come they're fat?
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It doesn't take a "lot" of food to make someone fat; just bad food and not enough exercise. Forget expensive fast food; all processed foods are the same--they all contain fat, corn syrup solids, HFC or tons of salt (if not ALL of the above). It has very little ... if anything at all ... to do with the socioeconomic status. Can you clarify what you mean by "poor" and "fat"? I'm guessing you're not talking extreme or abject poverty nor morbid obesity here. |
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I live in a trailer park and dont even have a car, im pretty sure i qualify as poor, and im pretty damn thin...dont stereotype us. :P
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I think I can clear this up.
lolololol poor people ARE fat aren't they hahaahaha damn fatties |
I could not have said it better!!!!!
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Not like that
Weight gain or over weight is not related to poorness but it is related generic DNA and mental state of mind, daily activities, age factor etc..
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Now for a little perspective...
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http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u...ru/trends6.gif Source: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention: National Center for Health Statistics. “National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey.” 2002. (Table 70). I've crunched some numbers for you for clarity: First column: overweight % Second column: obese % Less than $20,000 30% 24% $20,000 or more 35% 21% $20,000 - $34,999 35% 23% $35,000 - $54,999 35% 24% $55,000 - $74,999 36% 23% $75,000 or more 37% 18% Isn't it interesting? Weight problems are pretty similarly distributed across income levels here. I know this data is six years old, but I doubt the percentages have changed drastically in that time. So, yes, there is some connection between being both fat and poor, the specifics of which might be different than those causing weight problems in rich people. For example, I would suggest the following are somewhat unique in poor people: lack of free time, no money for gym memberships and other cost-bearing exercise activities, lack of access to health-care providers, etc. And I'm sure poor food choices is one as well, but the reasons are varied, I'm sure: too tired, too depressed, lack of education, etc. These factors make junk food look more appealing, don't they? So what about the rich people? I think many of us don't tend to see many fat rich people mainly because we don't see many rich people, period. *Tongue stuck firmly in cheek* I can't say my daily activities and hangouts allow me rub elbows with the rich too much. I think they're too busy milling about in the upper-class societies and gated communities. Poor people are more visible because they don't magically transport themselves from floor 32 of the office tower to their suburban monster house via shiny, rapid BMWs and Lexus (Lexi?). |
Well I guess that sort of ends the thead then, doesn't it?
All I was getting at was that you can't disprove a generalization by saying "I'm in that group and I'm not that way" the same way you can't really prove a generalization by pointing out a small number of non-random examples. Maybe we should be talking about all of the borderline offensive things people said before somebody found a chart and threw some numbers up here. Aw, heck, I'm sure there are still a handful of people who are going to argue vehemently that those numbers don't hold any water. :expressionless: |
Supple Cow, if you had taken the time to think about what I posted, you would find that it was supportive of both your and safronlove's posts. It points out that the "poor correlation" isn't a nebulous "fat/poor connection" but real factors that are likely affecting that group (eg. specific activities, state of mind, etc.) At the same time, it illustrates that the being poor "cause and effect" isn't necessarily true because the poor aren't the only ones who have these issues.
So, no, it doesn't end the thread but puts it into perspective: what is it about the poor that contributes to their weight issues? How does this differ from the other classes? What can be done? etc, etc. [Nice tone, by the way. Well played. Was that retaining water pun intentional or no? :)] |
We could put up all the charts and graphs and neat statistical crunches to try to determine why a certain group of people are obese and yada yada yada.
Leave it to us to overthink a simple problem. We eat food for energy. Energy in food is measured in calories. Once that energy is taken into our bodies, we convert the food energy into motion. Any excess of energy is stored in our bodies as fat. If we take in more calories than we use, we get fat. It doesn't matter if we have a slow metabolism, genetic predispositions for obesity, fat cousins, food allergies, whatever. The same thing is still true: if we take in more calories than we use, we get fat. It doesn't matter if we're rich, poor, middle class, marxist, capitalist, socialist, etc. The same thing is still true: if we take in more calories than we use, we get fat. It doesn't matter if we eat nothing but twinkies and zingers or apples and oranges, the same thing is still true: if we take in more calories than we use, we get fat. The only real question is: how dumb do you have to be to not understand this? It's not the economy, stupid; it's science. |
http://www.xkcd.com/store/science_shirt_front_thumb.png
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sure you can say science, economic classes... but that only works in the USA or better yet, places where poor aren't poor compared to the rest of the world's poor.
Black Eyed Peas singer Apl did a song called the Apl Song. When I was in Manila just after Katrina hit, that's the OP is what people asked me, "How come your poor people in the US are fat?" They could not understand it at all. We have "poor" people who have cable TV, microwaves, a building over their heads, where in contrast, many poor in India or the Philippines live in shantys or mud huts, those that happen to have a TV steal electricity and cable signal. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ila_shanty.jpg Quote:
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its probably more because poor people look like trash normally, and dont take care of themselves, therefore they are more memorable than the fat people who aren't poor and take care of themselves.
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Poor Americans are fat. This is not the mold for the world.
I've seen midget skeletons with burnt skin in Afghanistan. Might call them kids. |
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