sprocket

My girlfriend and I bumped into the original owners last night.

We found some stray dogs quite a ways from our house, but in our neighborhood, a little over a month ago. A ~2 year old black lab and her half lab, half-pitbull puppy, estimated at about 2 months old. A tiny little guy. We have a fenced in backyard and decided to keep them there till we figured out what to do.

We decided against taking them to animal control, as these dogs had no tags at all, and unless they are claimed in 3 days they are put to sleep. Pitbulls are even more problematic because it is illegal for animal control to adopt out dogs that have any pitbull blood at all, so its really a death sentance unless someone claims them. I checked around various lost dog websites looking for a posting regarding these dogs as well as checking around the neighborhood for any lost dog signs.. we see them quite frequently, but nothing for these two.

There is a non-profit, no kill animal shelter here called Project HALO and decided to see if they had room for two more. My girlfriend is good friends with one of the volunteers there, so she got in touch. They said they might have room and she would get in touch after the weekend was over. I'm sure that was really a ploy to let us get attached to the dogs (she knows we are dog people as they really try to encourage people to take the dogs in instead of sending them to the shelter. She came back and said they could take them, but if we wanted to keep them, they would provide financial assistance to pay for the vet bills, including things like de-worming, vaccinations etc. We decided to hold off for a while, and keep them while we continue to check around and see if we could find the owners. We were also walking the dogs daily around the neighborhood, and hadnt bumped into anyone claiming the dogs.

A week later we went ahead and made an appointment at the vet to get them fixed, vaccinated, check for worms, diseases etc. The appointment wouldnt be for two weeks. I kept looking around a few more times up until the appointment, but still couldnt find anyone that had lost a mother and her puppy, so we went through with it. We got them fixed, they both had some bad cases of round worms, and the mother had hookworms too. At this point we had decided to keep them.

We had begun slowly integrating them into our lives, and bringing them inside (neither are housebroken ). Fast forward a couple weeks (we've had them for a little over a month now), as we were on our way home from walking the dogs at a park we've been taking them too, a latino lady in her driveway stops us and says that these were her dogs!! This is on our street and is actually only about 2 or 3 houses down from us on the opposite side of the street!

Communication was pretty bad, she obviously didn't speak much English so there wasn't a whole lot I think she understood.. but she really wanted the dogs back. I guess she had seen us walking to the park and mentioned something to her husband about it (who we didnt ever see). She mentioned to us that he had basically said they are our dogs for all intents and purposes and if we didnt want to give them back there was nothing they could do.

She seemed to want to work out that maybe taking one back and lettings us have the other. As it turns out, they had gotten the lab pregnant and sold the puppies, but kept just the one. Before this point, I had already kind of demonized the previous owners in my head, seeing as how they didnt have tags on their dogs, both dogs obviously weren't very cared for and had bad cases of worms, not housebroken etc, so we had already decided the owners got what they deserved, and the dogs got what they deserved.. a better home.

Needless to say, the whole thing was very awkward. I got their phone number and pointed my house out to her. I told her that we are going to finish the walk, and if she wants to talk to me, she can knock on my door anytime, and we would think about what to do. We left with both the dogs.

I know if the shoes were on the other foot, I would definitely be insisting on getting my dogs back, but at the same time, I feel pretty justified in keeping them since, they didn't seem to be very cared for. I got the impression they had the dogs more as a way to make some extra bonus money by breeding them, and selling the pups. My girl has already become extremely attached to the dogs, and really is not OK with the idea of giving them back, and I dont want to either.

What would you do?

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mirevolver

If they had registered the dogs and gotten tags for them, then this would be a cut and dry case that you must return them. Even if the dogs had rabies shot tags, that would be proof of ownership. However, since they didn't get tags for the dogs, they really have no proof ownership, unless they happen to have a pedigre certificate for each dog, but even if they do, that is not a clear proof of ownership.

I'm guessing by your mention of the dogs having worms, you took the dogs to see a vet. Did you register the dogs? If so, then the law says that they're your dogs and giving them back becomes an ethics issue.

The lesson to be taken away from this is, register your dogs.

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Bill O'Rights

If you feel confident that you did everything that is reasonable, in locating the "owners", then I'd say that you have some furry additions to the family.

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The_Jazz

While I completely agree with BOR, I'm not convinced that you did all you could to locate the owners. Personally, I think you should have posted your own "found" flyers.

With that said, I also agree that you have a new fuzzy family. Everything about the condition of the dogs,, lack of tags, the pit bull mix and the lack of flyers from the previous owners screams "irresponsible". If you want to give them (or one) back that's your choice, but I don't think that's necessarily what's best for the animals.

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Terminal Frost

I think you should keep the dogs. I think I would if I were in your shoes. It doesn't sound like the woman (and especially her husband) really care to much whether or not you keep the dogs. Also, as you stated before, the dogs were not registered and not well taken care of.

Ourcrazymodern?

Keep them if you want them! sprocket, I don't even understand the question.

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JustJess

It's pretty simple in my mind. They've been with you over a month with no efforts from the owners to re-claim them until now. They were mistreated. They are now well treated.

The hell with the other owners. You're better for the dogs.

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shakran

Yup. you keep 'em. Sounds like you're taking care of them, and they weren't. If people want to get a pet, they need to be responsible for that pet. There's no way in hell I'd let any dog go back to a home where they got worms and ended up straying off at 2 months. That's appalling.

I also don't like backyard breeders. The more we keep dogs out of their greedy little hands, the better.

Willravel

They were neglectful owners. If they can show that they'll be good parents to the dogs, then by all means. For now, they have no legal right, and they clearly would be harmful to the animals. If they want the dogs, they can act like responsible owners for once.

sprocket

Yea, when we took them to the vet we got them rabies shots, all the standard vaccinations and had them fixed. Project HALO has a partnership with several vets here, and all the work was paid for by them. From what it looks like, the original owners never did any of that. Like I said, at that point we had made the decision to keep the dogs, and had had no luck finding the owners. Funny thing is we walked the dogs daily, right in front of their house for the entire month+ that we've had them.

I wasnt able to get the backstory from the lady, I dont think she understood much of what I said to her. For all we know they could have picked up the dog as a stray, themselves, and knocked her up.

While I dont think its good to breed bad blood between neighbors, I dont really intend to give the dogs back unless there are extreme circumstances. I'm still debating at this point on whether I should call the husband and explain things. I didnt tell them we fixed the dogs, I wonder if they would even want them back after that.

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ngdawg

Oh, definitely tell them you had them fixed!!! And dewormed, etc. If you think they'd have trouble understanding what you say, write it in a note and let them find someone to translate it.
They're your dogs. Don't feel guilty.
When a friend of mine lived up the street, she was upset with the neighbors for the way they treated their Lab-she was tied to a tree 24/7, fed there....
Hearing the dog whine was just too much for her(she had two large dogs of her own), so she talked to another friend who said she'd like to have the dog...my friend went under the cover of darkness, untied the poor thing and they put her in the other woman's car...the first owners mentioned the dog 'running away' and nothing more was said. Just like some people shouldn't breed, some shouldn't be allowed to own a pet.

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Sultana

They're running a #*&$% puppy farm, no way would I return them, although they're likely to just go out and get some more.

People who carelessly breed pits and pit mixes should be hurt. With death sentences hanging over their heads, that's irresponsibility of large proportion. I'm trying to choose my words carefully, because this infuriates me to no end.

I'd be very tempted to alert the authorities if they continue the puppy mill.

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Glory's Sun

I agree to a point, but in court the burden would be on the previous owners to post flyers etc. to do all in their power to get their dogs found.

So basically, they are yours as no small claims court would ask you to return the dogs. Even if they did rule in her favor it would be for a dollar amount, not the actual dog.

Puppy Mill?? I didn't read anywhere in the OP that the lady was running a puppy mill. There's a <b>HUGE</b> difference between a dog getting knocked up in your yard and having hundreds of dogs in tiny cages.

I'm also curious as to your true stance on the pit statement.. are you saying that pits are bad or just a big responsibility?? I don't think breeding a pit is bad.. just owners who are careless.

Sultana

OK, maybe a puppy mill is a bit of a stretch, but it sounds like backyard breeding to me.

And regarding pits, I love 'em. I fostered one for 6 months. I resent people who carelessly breed and contribute on many levels to the many problems the dogs already face.

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The_Jazz

Gucci - to clarify, I meant morally, not legally. I should have clarified, and you're 100% IMO about the legal burden.

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Elphaba

If for any reason you feel an obligation to return the dogs, you should be compensated for your expenses. That might also end their continued interest in having the dogs back.

Personally, I think those are some lucky pups to have found you.

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sprocket

Yea for right or for wrong, I guess at the time when we found them, I felt like I really didnt want the real owners to find them, even though we hadn't come to a decision yet as to whether we would keep them. Love dogs, but they are a huge responsibility and really had to think hard about whether we were at a point where we are able to properly take care of them. Yea, there was some pre-judgement on my part about the owners, but my conscience doesn't seem to bother me to much about that. I know shit happens, dogs escape, sometimes it cant be helped, but I wonder if they've ever been to a vet in their life.. The puppy sure hadnt.

It's common in puppies in the southeast to have worms and all that stuff, but the mother had them too, which would mean, they didnt have her on heartworm medication or anything. Luckily she was negative, and the puppy isnt old enough to have them yet. The puppy's belly was so big from all the round worms, it practically shrank to half its size after he passed them. He was probably born with them, passed along from the mother.

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Infinite_Loser

So why are you going to keep them, then?

It seems to me that you're trying to rationalize your guilt and are just looking for people to tell you that it's okay to keep the dogs.

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Sultana

Because if they were his dogs to start, he would have wanted them and looked for them and treated them better.

It seems to me you are looking to pass judgement.

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Infinite_Loser

There's no judgment passing here.

The OP stated that if the shoe was on the other foot, he'd want his dogs back. Given the fact that he feels this way, then it's hypocritical for him to keep the dogs (You know... Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you), wouldn't you say?

It seems to me that this thread is nothing but a shallow attempt at rationalizing any guilt he's feeling for keeping the dogs.

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shakran

No. If the shoe were on the other foot he would want the dogs back because he obviously is someone who actually takes care of the dogs. That's not the case for the dog's backyard breeder.

Furthermore, he said he would WANT the dog back. You're right that the dog's backyard breeder probably WANTS the dog back. I WANT to be president of Earth. Doesn't mean I've earned the right. This dog's backyard breeder may WANT the dogs back, but that does not mean she deserves them.

We're not talking about a chair or a bicycle here. A dog is a living breathing creature, and it would be morally reprehensible to turn that living creature over to a situation that is obviously neglectful.

Superbelt

Well vet bills add up. So do toys and food and all the other things a dog needs.

You could probrably get her to shup up and leave you alone quite quickly by itemizing what those dogs have cost you to this point. I know the no-kill shelter paid for much of her medical bills, but that should be added to the cost and seen as something they should be reimbursed for in a 'donation' kind of capacity.

If I found a dog to be neglected, and the fact that she wasn't fixed to begin with is reason enough to me, I wouldn't care how much she wants the dog back.

sprocket

Here are the dogs btw,

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Ourcrazymodern?

Thanks for sharing the pictures. The mom looks a lot like my dog, and the pup is really cute.

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stevie667

Don't take not being tagged as a bad sign, when we lost our cat (also was picked up by someone round the proverbial corner) it wasn't tagged. First thing we did when we got it back, besides giving it a week long hug, was tag and chip him. Sometimes you don't even consider the fact that your pet might bugger off until it actually does.

If they were ill and not housetrained (i don't keep dogs myself, but i'd still imagine this would be one of those things unless they lived in a garden), then those are two factors which would weigh more heavily.

keep open lines of communication, but if you do believe you have given them a better home, and bear in mind you have stated your own subjective beliefs as to the level of care provided by the real owners, then don't be afraid to be a little stubborn.

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Destrox

At this point the only solution would be:

Inform the true owner of what all you did with the dogs.
Require FULL payment + more for taking care of THEIR pets.
About a week later call animal control on them for illegal breeding.
Arrange pickup of the dogs.

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oFia

If the shoe was on the other foot you wouldn't have let your dog and her puppy run loose and get worms. So, it's different.

I would keep the dogs. And they are cute too.

mirevolver

It's not so easy. One of the dogs is half Pitbull, if animal control gets involved, the Pitbull mixed dog may never be seen again.

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Menoman

Basically the BIGGEST thing someone can do to piss me off, (really Im' hard to piss off too, very hard actually) is mistreat a pet animal.

I'm no PETA retard, I hunt, kill animals and eat them.

If you mistreat a fucking pet I'll beat your head in with a baseball bat.




So gratz on the dogs, I wouldn't let them even lay their eyes on those dogs again.

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lindseylatch

I skimmed, so I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this,
but there are generally rules regarding picking up strays, and there's usually a time limit before the dog actually legally belongs to you. Check with your local animal control.
The owner would have to prove that the dogs belong to her to get them back, often a picture will do the trick.
I doubt medical bills will be reimbursible, especially since you neutered the animals, and I doubt she wanted that. Shots, etc. maybe.
Very cute, btw.

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