spectre

I'm not one to stifle people's opinions, and I think the only way to grow is to take criticisms and to learn from them. So on that note, this was PMed to me from a member who feels this is important, but doesn't want their name on it because it's a little controversial:

__________________
"Fuck these chains
No goddamn slave
I will be different" ~ Machine Head

ngdawg

A) Take the opinion/post at face value without trying to put a personal spin on the personality behind the words. If there's a personal touch one needs to incorporate, state so, ie; 'in my view' or 'as I see it'.
B) Speak up. If someone thinks what's said is directed at them or negative, ASK!! PM them. A major disagreement/meltdown could have totally been avoided with one simple question.
C) Self-edit. And post sober.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Brightwater

I'm new here, but in general, my advice is to stick to your guns, no matter how unpopular your opinion may be. As a matter of principle, stand up for that in which you believe.

I post unpopular opinions in comments on Digg all the time and know that I will probably get modded down, but I do it anyway. If everyone was afraid to buck the consensus, society would stagnate.

Astrocloud

Um, gee. As long as there are rules posted and they are applied to everyone in exactly the same way -then it really has to be an issue for the mods to decide. The key, I think is consistency.
.

SecretMethod70

Honestly, I'm not really sure I see the problem here.

No, it's not that I think people shouldn't post if they have an unpopular opinion...it's that I think, if you're not expressing something simply because you're worried about how others will respond to it, it's no one's fault but your own. Don't take offense to this - we all do it, and not just on forums - but we'd all do well to recognize that the problem isn't so much with others as it is with ourselves. I self-censor in life all the time in anticipation of what the reaction may be, but that is no one's fault but my own. I do it out of choice. It's a fact of life when dealing with other human beings: a cost-benefit analysis where we must weigh the benefits of expressing our opinion with the cost of dealing with the fact others may disagree.

Now, there are mods here to enforce civility if it gets out of hand, and if someone is rude to you - or another poster - please report the post. (You can do this by clicking the alert icon () on the offending post.) That said, the freedom to express your opinion is not synonymous with the freedom from criticism for that opinion. Just as you are generally free to express your opinion on this forum, everyone else is equally free to tell you they disagree. Personally, I have no interest in that changing. The day when we say "uh-oh, too many people are speaking out against this opinion, better stop that" is the day I'll stop being a mod here.

In short, help us maintain civility by reporting posts that violate the rules and are insulting or attack another poster. If you are responding to something you disagree with, please do so respectfully. Sometimes it's a good idea to step away for a bit and let yourself cool off before responding. Beyond that, you shouldn't expect much else. No one deserves the freedom from being told their opinion is unpopular (and this goes for regular users and mods alike). So please post your opinions freely, but be prepared to deal with the fact other people may disagree en masse. It's a fact of life.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

pig

i agree with secret, without a concrete example of what the op is referring to, i have to answer general sense. i don't see a lot of outright flaming, nor any increase in outright flaming, recently. i definitely would rather err on the side of giving too much leeway to posters and let the users either filter out or ignore posts they find offensive, rather than have an antiseptic conversation where real opinions aren't expressed because of fear of reprisal. i know the op wants to be anonymous, which is fine...but perhaps some sort of example would be useful. otherwise, i really just speak your mind. if you think someone is out of line, simply tell them. some people pm them, i do it publicly in the thread.

edit: additionally, this reminds me of the "what's wrong with tfp" / "C:A" threads of a few months ago, so i'll reiterate my personal opinion that i would hate to see this place overrun by patty cake talk and abject unnecessary pussification, and i know/strongly suspect that it has already cost at least one long-time member whose posts i will definitely miss.

__________________
You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

mixedmedia

If you have unpopular opinions and don't have the cajones to stand by them then, yes, maybe you should keep them to yourself. I've disagreed with many people here and many people here have disagreed with me. The secret is to disagree, passionately even, and then let it go. It's not as if you have any personal stake in anyone here agreeing with you or vice versa.

What I think is most important of all is not to carry grudges and resentment from thread to thread. These kinds of patterns should be put in check when they arise. Otherwise, just talk people. We're just talking here. Not re-ordering the universe.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Cynthetiq

And that is what makes it most interesting when meeting people from here.

Because one has different opinions when you see them in real life you see the human being behind the text. I like the fact that I can disagree with real life friends that don't take offense to the whole tete a tete.

Again, it's all about respect, agreeing to disagree, and at the end of the day, letting it all go. Hopefully through all of that, maybe we get to learn something about someone else, ourselves, or things we thought we knew only to have our eyes opened to a different point of view you never thought you'd have.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

ShaniFaye

Everyone having the same opinion is boring....as long as you're not into hurting children, abusing women or animals your opinion is valid with me, whether I agree with it or not

good lord, if I can survive the atheism threads and admitting I slept with my 1st cousin when I was younger....I can deal with just about anything

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Lady Sage

I agree with the masked OP. There are many times I am forced to hit the back button because of a select few people who would try to pick a fight with me even if it would totally debunk their normal stance on things.

Some people need to grow up!

__________________
If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open.
It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper
Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch.

pig

can you give any examples LS? or prefer not to? i'm not really sure what the op is referring to, so its hard for me to put this in context.

__________________
You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

roachboy

in general, i agree with much of what has already been said.

the pm device is helpful.
sometimes take what i post in ways that i do not understand or they interpret something in ways that i did not mean.
pm is a back channel for straightening things out.

communities require maintenance: there is no reason we should rely on the mods to do it for us.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

abaya

SM has hit it right on, if you ask me. I thought this place had actually become *more* civil lately, not less... and anyway, it's still just an internet forum. Does anyone really need to take anything personally, here? And if so, the PM trick tends to work most things out, whether with the offending person or with a mod who can mediate.

I mean, sure, some posts might ruffle my feathers... but that's kind of what I like about this place. People calling my bullshit and challenging me to answer them in an intelligent, defensible manner. That's what brings me back here... it's not some faux-polite place where everyone is nicey-nicey. People are as real as they come, here. And I like that about TFP.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Halx

I'm going to bring up the "flaps" thread as an example. Recently, a user has posted a fairly opinionated view of what large labia signify. The response from our users has been negative. Now, it's fairly civil, but there is a hint of condescension. Not enough to take action on. As a moderator, you sort of wish people would disagree without inserting the downtalk. It's a good example of an opinion that one would assume nobody with some worldly experience could agree with, yet SOMEONE has it. Go figure.

On the other hand, you have to applaud the person for posting their opinion quite unabashedly. There are some people on the forum with relatively level-headed opinions that are scared to post. In the end, all you have to figure is that it's their problem, considering the gall of the poster in my example. If people had bigger balls, this place would be much more interesting.

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-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

ubertuber

Every one has their own philosophy about moderation, flaming, etc. For me, if someone is being a jackass and dancing on the line, I'm likely to leave the offending comment there. After all, it's sort of a monument to that person's level of discourse - a warning for the rest of us, so to speak. In my mind, leaving those things out for every one to see is way more embarrassing than the edit. The egregious shit I'll take out if it's likely to cause more trouble than the warning is worth...

TFP is mostly a civil place. I think it's kind of like high school in that being on the inside is mostly a state of mind - just choose to participate and it'll work out. I do notice that people seem to be taking the easy way out rather than stating their opinions in optimal terms, but that's just life. The internet is like the real world in that respect, and in one other: not everyone is going to think you are as special and smart as your mother does. People will disagree with you and they might even think you're stupid. Who cares?

__________________
Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

The_Jazz

I've thought about the topic of this thread for the last month or so, and I find myself agreeing with our mystery member up to a point but vehemently disagreeing beyond that point.

Since I was asked to be a part of the staff, I will admit to changing my posting habits. I no longer log on to solely look for a good discussion or to revisit an earlier disagreement. Now I find myself first reading with the guidelines in mind and then as a member. I've stopped myself from posting in threads where I think I might have otherwise expressed an opinion because my role as a moderator comes first. And you know what? I'm ok with that. It may be different for the rest of the staff, but it's what I need to do for myself.

That said, I think that there are a lot of posts that closely approach the violation point. I can think of one thread where I may have been close myself. With that, I agree with the OP.

I strongly disagree that this is a problem, however. The bounds of good taste and manners are variable from day to day and person to person, and what is perfectly acceptable in one situation is a bannable offense in the next one. By my own estimation, about 40% of what I post is in Politics, and the folks there have to express an opinion if they're going to post anything at all. Honestly, that's the most difficult portion of TFP to moderate IMO, as hinted at by the OP, but I think that in the last few months Politics has, by and large, been a relatively friendly place than in the past. Part of that is, of course, some missing personalities, but a much larger part of the equation is the higher level of civility generally apparent there.

I've posted this elsewhere, but my mother always taught me that it's rude to discuss religion or politics with anyone. Given that those discussion is a part of the charter of this site, it is impossible that feelings will never get hurt. When they do, however, it is important that the staff know about it, as Secret pointed out above:

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...24&postcount=6

I will never agree 100% with anyone here, but honestly, I don't want to. One of the reasons that I started posting again here after a couple year's layoff was because of the differences in personalities, beliefs and interests. If we all agreed on everything, this place would be boring.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

mixedmedia

I've had bigger arguments on "issues", like politics, with members of my own family than I've ever seen on display at TFP, whether I am involved in them or not.

But I'd like to think that we can argue like a big noisy family and still be able to let it go at the end of the day like that. Maybe that's just pie in the sky thinking, though.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Exscinded

From this thread ->

From the "TTC" thread in parenting ->

I almost want to think I'm reading from two different people who share the same name, but it's the same ShaniFaye in two different threads during the same time frame (these were posted at 10am and 5pm on the same day). The words in the one thread are different than the actions exhibited in another thread. Which speaks loudest, the actions or the words?

Infinite_Loser

Really, I don't know how anyone can disagree with these two sentences. Maybe it's because people are typically blind to those actions which they frequently participate in...

__________________
I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me.

Dilbert1234567

How about we just think before we post; if it does not produce a positive contribution to the thread don't post it.

Calling someone on their beliefs when you think they are wrong is great, as long as it is done respectfully.

We have to remember that sometimes we all slip up, instead of hitting someone back, just let it roll off your back, if the person keeps hitting you and provoking you, inform a moderator, feeding the problem does nothing.

And yes I am well aware of the irony... I do screw up sometimes too, so please don’t go and point it out; I’m well aware of it.

__________________
Donate Blood!

"Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen

Menoman

More than once I've posted my true opinion on some things. As per the rules there has been no straight up flames thrown at me(well mostly). Though the snide remarks are always an opponent. It doesn't help I've never been one to beat around the bush, I'll just throw out my opinion in whatever words come to mind.

This is nothing new and it's been that way since shit, I've been here a long fuckin time.

Anyway, I don't let it bother me. Mostly because what I end up thinking, and not typing is "Nice, another idiot who thinks he is the judge on morals/decency/whatever topic at hand"

The flaps thread is an excellent example. Go back and look at basically any racism/nazi/abortion/child support/cops beating criminals/about 100 examples thread we have had here in the last 2 years and I garrentee you'll find a plethora of the same situation.

It's a problem if you allow yourself to fall to the level of someone who has to post like that.


Not exactly sure how to combat that type of thing... many times I'll agree someone attempting to sway someones opinion may seem like degrading the opposition in whatever circumstance. It would be a difficult judgement call every time it occured.

So basically, human nature, to get offended if someone disagrees with you. We all wanna be correct. Some people try to build their opinion up, so it stands out from the rest as the best choice, while others will try to knock the rest down so theirs is the only one left standing.

__________________

ShaniFaye

.

sorry? I fail to see you point here?

Are you saying I shouldnt have posted my opinion on the shit they were giving a new member for using TTC instead of typing it out and not offering anything productive to the thread and turning it into a discussion about using shorthand some people are not familiar with? There is a difference in posting an opinion on the thread topic and being disrespectful to a new member who might not have any idea that "TTC" isnt widely known, I've seen it on every board Im on....except TFP. The mods should have handled that when it was posted and they didnt...they let it stand and then didnt do anything about either when people started giving her crap. Its a perfect example of a thread being derailed because people, who I know have a brain, couldnt take the time to either use the back button or figure out what she meant

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

SecretMethod70

re: moderating, it needs to be said that we are not omnipresent nor omniscient. Simply put, if people do not report posts, then there are going to be plenty of things that slip through the cracks. We do our best to handle situations as we come across them, but concerned users also have a responsibility to help out by reporting posts.

First, there is the obvious problem that there is no guarantee a mod will even read the offending post. Secondly, the mods are all human too. One mod may read a post and not see what is wrong with it while another may read it and see something that needs action. Reporting posts is the best way to point *both* mods to the post in question so that the situation can be seen from multiple viewpoints.

I can't speak for the rest of the mods, but I'd much rather be getting reported posts that don't actually require action than not getting reported posts that do.

As an aside, I took a look at the TTC thread and I do want to say I don't see anything particularly hypocritical in ShaniFaye's statements (and even if I did, I think Dilbert hit the nail on the head: no one is perfect). There are multiple issues with the thread, not the lease of which is a very weak opening post. On the other side of things, it is true that once "TTC" was deciphered, that probably should have been the end of that discussion. Then again, flipping sides once more, had the opening post been more substantial, I suspect it would have been much easier for people to find something else to discuss in the thread. Let this be a lesson on the importance of reading the guide to creating new threads. It's not there simply because we want to create rules, it's there to help you all get the best results from the discussions you want to start.

Bringing this back to reporting posts, there's no reason to limit the feature's usage only to specific posts which violate specific rules. If you think a thread is getting unreasonably derailed (as opposed to simply following a natural flow of discussion), click the report post link for the opening post and explain the problem as you see it.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

mixedmedia

And thinking a little further about the "flaps" controversy.

If someone says something mind-jarringly obtuse and insulting, I'm not sure why people here who know better should pussyfoot around their post and pretend to be gracious about it. In that particular example, I think the response corresponded appropriately with the tone and timbre of the offending statement. After all, other contributors to the thread made similar observations without drawing fire. Maybe through trial and error she can learn to express herself with more tact.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

abaya

I have been thinking much along the same lines, lately. Opinions are opinions are opinions. If you are going to be open to the expression of one person's opinion (no matter how obtuse, etc), you have to be open to other people expressing their own opinions just as strongly. To censor one kind of opinion just because it's in reaction to someone's else's initial opinion doesn't make sense. It's all relative, other than sticking to a handful of basic rules of posting etiquette (which is what makes this place go 'round).

Personally, I've never felt held back by anyone, mod or member, in this place. I've no doubt pissed a lot of people off in my time here so far. Does it matter to anyone other than me? No. Do I care? Not for very long, if at all. TFP requires a bit of skin thickening... so be it. It's good practice for real life, after all.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

lurkette

I think there are several things going on:

1. people reacting to the way in which an opinion is stated (e.g., "I don't like mushrooms" vs. "mushrooms suck!!!" or "people who eat mushrooms are stupid")

2. people reacting to the reasons behind someone's opinions and trying to persuade them of the illogic/faulty reasoning behind those opinions ("I don't like mushrooms because it's not right for people to eat fungi" or "Mushrooms suck because my brother ate mushrooms once and got sick")

3. people reacting to opinions they don't like and getting borderline pissy about it ("oh yeah? well people who don't like mushrooms are idiots")

IMHO, the first two reactions are valid. It's fine to take on someone's opinion if it's stated poorly or in a way that is insulting or demeaning, based on faulty reasoning, or if you simply want to present an alternative viewpoint for the person to consider.

The third one is throwing sand in the sandbox.

It doesn't do much to elevate the discussion to reply to an immature or poorly-worded statement with an equally immature or poorly-worded statement.

If you feel you're being attacked, look at whether the person is really attacking vs. just challenging. Also, look at whether they might have good reason to attack you. Did the way you said something come off as an attack, a blanket statement, just plain dumb?

Also, you may want to consider why your beliefs are unpopular. Are they simply unconventional? Are they poorly-founded? Do you have information that other people don't that led you to your conclusions? Use the challenge (or, if you're on the other side, the unconventional belief) as an opportunity to re-examine your opinions and either crystallize or alter them.

If you're challenging someone's post, be sure you know what it is you're challenging about it (the wording vs. the sentiment vs. the reasoning) and be clear about that in your own statements.

__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

shakran

Thank you. Ya know every once in awhile this place reminds me of my time served on my high school speech team. I was in a category called group deliberation - you get 8 people together in a group to discuss an issue and what should be done about it. You ALWAYS had someone bringing up idiotic ideas - the strategy there was that no one was supposed to say anything that could possibly insult or offend another member of the group, so if you start coming up with dumbassed ideas, you can bait the other guys into finally saying the ideas are crazy. Needless to say, I didn't do very well in that category.

I never liked the concept that you can't call people out when they're saying something obviously obtuse.

A good example would be dksuddeth's thread advocating the easy removal of judges. I said the idea was crazy. I said that because it IS crazy. I'm not worried about hurting dksuddeth's feelings here - he's a big boy now and can take it. We're not dealing with little kids around here - we should be able to state our opinion without a lot of nailbiting over whether or not we might possibly have hurt someone's feelings.

I know political correctness has been a fun and entertaining little concept since the 90's, but what it boils down to is the idiotic human desire to sugarcoat reality. If an idea is crazy, then dammit, say it's crazy. It seems some people want TFP to become a syrupy sweet love fest where everyone gets along and no one ever argues - I can't even count how many times I've seen a poster complain that people fight in the politics forum. Well, yeah. Of course they fight in the politics forum. That's what makes politics fun. If you don't like it, don't go into the politics forum. Some of us do enjoy a good healthy debate, and comprehend the difference between saying someone's idea is stupid or crazy, and calling that someone a moron. We manage to be able to say the former without lowering ourselves to the level of saying the latter.

Now if anyone here thinks what I've said is stupid, please feel free to say so, right here, out in the open. I promise I won't be offended, I won't cry, and I won't leave the TFP in a huff, never to return.

ARTelevision

I can report to you that staff considers these issues on a daily basis.
It's one of the most basic things we're about here.

*

This thread is a good example of civil discourse.

Thanks,
Art

__________________
create evolution

Sultana

Exactly. Along with wanting to keep TFP from becoming PC incarnate, I also do not want it to be a place that suffers fools gladly.

I think the key is to avoid personal attacks--even if you feel you have been personally attacked initially. There are other, more sophisticated, community-minded, and effective methods of dealing with perceived personal attacks. Don't lower one's personal standards for either intelligent discussion, or perceived personal attacks.

There is still always a place for respect for the person, if not for the opinion or the method of stating an opinion.

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

Daniel_

That seems a little harsh.

Shanni has said tat if you have odd opinions you are still worthy of discussion, but at the same time, she has said "don't be rude to new people for things you all do in other threads".

Her views are consistent, even if you don't totally agree with them.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

Dilbert1234567

With regards to TTC:

it took me just about 5 minutes to figure out what the OP was talking about with Google, the reason I gave it 5 minutes instead of brushing it off was its a brand new member, unfortunately, everyone piled on complaining and I think we lost a new member, as of yesterday, she had not returned to the board. We’ve got to remember that new members are not thick skinned yet and don’t know the rules, they will fuck up, and if we don’t correct them in a decent manner, they will leave.

With regards to Flaps?:
It is the same case as with (fuck it we all know who were talking about) bloody_rose20 she's new, I think calling her on her opinion was justified, however, when everyone else in the thread piles on it's intimidating to new members. Now if ShaniFaye starts making fun of guys who's left ball hangs lower then their right, let's all berate her and hard, but for the entire forum to go after a new member, it's going to kill off the new members quickly.

One rude, berating comment every now and then is fine, as long as it’s justified, but a continued slur of them is not.

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Donate Blood!

"Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen

Cynthetiq

while that's somewhat true Dil, sometimes people just don't like to be corrected not matter how or why.

I don't recall the long standing member anymore but last year that is exactly what happened. They just couldn't take any kind of moderation even if it's just about posting guidelines, I believe the person wrote so much as to the effect of "I'm an adult and I don't need to be corrected anymore." So it's damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Maybe the thread should have just been locked from the beginning instead of Charlataan's attempt at some humor and levity to coerce more out of the OP.

I'm pondering the one rude berating comment every now and then.... and for some reason even the spirit or idea of it doesn't seem right but I get what I think you are driving at...

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

SecretMethod70

It should be said that she hasn't returned since posting the thread. She hasn't seen a single one of the responses yet.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Dilbert1234567

I understand and they have to be dealt with accordingly. But new members should not be thrown to the dogs quite as quick.

I’m not saying be rude every once in a while, we must accept that it will happen, if we don’t push the envelope, this would be a boring place, and if we push it, we will not always be 100% civil; it is just an impossibility.

__________________
Donate Blood!

"Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen

Cynthetiq

here's what really needs to happen to everyone in some shape or form at some point in time even if it's just a little levity...


audio may be NSFW

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Dilbert1234567

or that...

__________________
Donate Blood!

"Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen

Lady Sage

Could, prefer not to though.

Edit: Rest of post deleted due to seemingly poor wording.

__________________
If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open.
It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper
Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch.

Daniel_

Too bloody right.

I told her about my balls in confidence.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

World's King

I'm a big fan of Jew jokes.



Just thought I'd share.

__________________
heavy is the head that wears the crown

Halx

Harden the fuck up, TFP!

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[Don't Feed The Animals]