Need Advice for a busted A/C - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

bermuDa · 04-08-2007, 01:44 AM

So, a while back, the Air Conditioner in the guest house stopped working, and I need some advice...

It's actually a heat pump, installed into a window. It basically just has a slider between hot and cold, and two fan settings for heater and a/c. The heater part works fine, but when I try to slide over to "cold" and turn on the air conditioner, the compressor won't turn on. The fan will just blow stale air. As it's starting to get hot back home, getting this thing fixed has become imperative. I've had it for a few years, so I would think that the warranty is up. I don't have the specs, but i'll post them once I get them. The pain in the ass is compounded by the fact that I'm still overseas, and trying to deal with this indirectly through my relatively clueless relatives.

I've briefly talked to the A/C guys who installed it, and they said that it would be better to replace than fix it. I'm not sure if that's true, since the unit I have was not cheap, and it still technically works (at least during the winter). I'm beginning to wonder if it's not just a simple problem with the control panel; if the unit was actually busted, then wouldn't both functions be disabled?

What do you think?

Also, as a bit of an aside, I'm looking to get a small portable unit for mid-sized rooms in the house, since that as yet has no A/C installed. I've been looking at this one and this one, but I know very little about the brands themselves. Any suggestions? Would a 7-9k BTU unit be sufficient?

Cavi Mike · 04-08-2007, 04:30 AM

If what you say is true: 'it's actually a heat pump' than it's not really a heater, it's just a fan that draws in warmer air from outside. Your 'heater' will still work even though the A/C part has stopped working. They may be controlled from the same knob but they are two different systems, much like a car. A/C components aren't just expensive, they are expensive to repair due to the chemicals inside. Proper containment procedures are timely and not cost effective so replacing a unit may be cheaper than repairing.

Rekna · 04-08-2007, 06:43 AM

If you are in a dry region you might want to consider a swamp cooler as they are much cheaper than AC and have a much lower operating cost. But if it is humid where you are then don't consider a swamp cooler as it won't do anything.

bermuDa · 04-08-2007, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavi Mike

If what you say is true: 'it's actually a heat pump' than it's not really a heater, it's just a fan that draws in warmer air from outside. Your 'heater' will still work even though the A/C part has stopped working. They may be controlled from the same knob but they are two different systems, much like a car. A/C components aren't just expensive, they are expensive to repair due to the chemicals inside. Proper containment procedures are timely and not cost effective so replacing a unit may be cheaper than repairing.

Interesting, I'm still waiting on those specs, but I think that's what they called it when I first got it. The weird thing is that when it worked properly, whether it was on heater or a/c, it would make the same sound. Also, it would intermittently stop the motor sound (I'm guessing as it sensed that the room had achieved the desired temperature), and as it would do this hot or cold air would be replaced by room-temperature air blown just by the fans. Now, if I turn on the heater, it still makes the same sound, but the A/C part doesn't click on the compressor, and so all I hear are the fans.

fightnight · 04-08-2007, 12:18 PM

I think that when this kinda stuff happens, it often winds up saving you time and headache to just replace them. If the heat still works, buy an A/C only unit, which would be cheaper, and still use the current one in the winter. Maybe it's just the kind of person I am, but I'd just replace it.

bermuDa · 04-08-2007, 04:11 PM

hmm, I guess that leaves the question of where to put the A/C unit, since the one I have is huge and eats up the only window suitable for mounting.

Also, any recommendations on those units I linked to? Does anyone have a brand preference for climate control? Unfortunately, price is a factor...

scout · 04-09-2007, 02:24 AM

A heat pump is actually an air conditioner that has a reversing valve which allows the refrigerant flow to reverse so that you pick up heat from the outside air and with refrigerant you take the heat in to the indoor air coil. The heat is then removed as the fan blows air across the coil. Most heat pumps have some sort of backup "emergency" electric heat for use during the defrost mode or when there is a problem. If your unit is in fact a heat pump this electric emergency heat is probably what you have been using to heat the home. One of several things could be wrong. You could have a bad thermostat, bad mode switch or of the unit is fairly new or manufactured in the last 15 years or so it probably has a control board that manages all the functions including the defrost and there could be a problem with it. Any of the above functions I would recommend you repair the unit rather than replace it as it will be much tons cheaper to repair rather than replace. If there is a problem with the compressor it isn't necessarily any cheaper but a lot wiser to replace the unit rather than repair because of the warranty the new unit will have. In the long run you will save money. Did they tell you what the problem was or just tell you that the unit needed replaced? If the unit does in fact need to be replaced a cheaper alternative to the heat pump is a air conditioner with electric heat. This typically costs half to two thirds the cost of a heat pump. It isn't near as efficient and will cost you more to heat the house than a heat pump but the upfront costs are considerably cheaper. Hope this helps and good luck!

Also, have you thought about just installing a typical ducted system rather than have a hodge podge of window shakers and portable units? The portable units you have linked still need to circulate outside air that's why they come with 71" hoses. The portable units are primarily designed for short term use. By the time you install a new window shaker and buy a couple portable units you will be near the cost of a typical ducted system or multi-evaporator non-ducted system like you see here. There are several manufacturers of ductless systems I just pulled up the Sanyo site because it has a pretty good overview of some viable alternatives I would be considering rather than the hodge podge of shakers and portables.

pig · 04-09-2007, 04:04 AM

in addition to scout's questions, can your relatives verify there is no refridgerant leak?

bermuDa · 04-09-2007, 02:36 PM

Thank you for the detailed explanation! That confirms some of the vague inklings I had about the unit. The problem started long before I had left, and I looked all around the unit and found no leaks that I could detect. I believe I simply explained the problem to the A/C people over the phone, and they automatically suggested a replacement, which to me seemed like a backhanded form of robbery.

I will forward your responses to my folks and see that they get a proper repairman to come and look at the unit. Thanks!

Also, the main house already has ducting, and as far as I know, just needs an A/C unit installed. We revamped the heating system a while back, but held off on putting in the air conditioner because of the cost. I'm going to tell them to just put their money towards getting a bigger unit that uses the ducting system they spent so much on already.

docbungle · 04-09-2007, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bermuDa

Also, the main house already has ducting, and as far as I know, just needs an A/C unit installed. We revamped the heating system a while back, but held off on putting in the air conditioner because of the cost. I'm going to tell them to just put their money towards getting a bigger unit that uses the ducting system they spent so much on already.

Be sure that the furnace is "A/C Ready." Some older furnaces will not support a condenser (Air Conditioner) without additional electrical work. Sometimes a new furnace is even required. The furnace is what moves the air through the home, be it cool air or hot air. A coil will also need to be purchased in addition to the condenser for a central air system to be functional.

The sizing of the condenser is also important, as an under- or over-sized condenser will be a lot less efficient and productive than a properly sized unit.

bermuDa · 04-10-2007, 05:20 AM

If it's not A/C ready, we were flat-out lied to by the men who replaced our furnace (within the past few years). According to the folks, it should only be about a grand for the house unit.

I'll post any further details as they arise.

scout · 04-10-2007, 07:13 PM

It's none of my business but a grand sounds pretty cheap. Even if it's only the condensing unit it's still pretty damn cheap. If I was you I would be terribly suspicious of a quote that low. Depending on the size of the unit that is needed for your home that sounds cheaper than the actual wholesale cost on everything. There has to be a catch somewhere or he's getting one helluva deal on equipment. Hope it's true for your sake. Good Luck!

docbungle · 04-10-2007, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scout

It's none of my business but a grand sounds pretty cheap. Even if it's only the condensing unit it's still pretty damn cheap. If I was you I would be terribly suspicious of a quote that low. Depending on the size of the unit that is needed for your home that sounds cheaper than the actual wholesale cost on everything. There has to be a catch somewhere or he's getting one helluva deal on equipment. Hope it's true for your sake. Good Luck!

I agree. Even for a bargain-brand condenser, "a grand" is right around cost for a 13 SEER central a/c unit & coil for a small home - around 850 sqft or so. (including minimum installation materials).

bermuDa · 04-11-2007, 06:07 AM

Thanks for the heads up, fellas. I'll pass it on.

04-08-2007, 01:44 AM	#1 (permalink)
bermuDa don't ignore this--> Location: CA	Need Advice for a busted A/C So, a while back, the Air Conditioner in the guest house stopped working, and I need some advice... It's actually a heat pump, installed into a window. It basically just has a slider between hot and cold, and two fan settings for heater and a/c. The heater part works fine, but when I try to slide over to "cold" and turn on the air conditioner, the compressor won't turn on. The fan will just blow stale air. As it's starting to get hot back home, getting this thing fixed has become imperative. I've had it for a few years, so I would think that the warranty is up. I don't have the specs, but i'll post them once I get them. The pain in the ass is compounded by the fact that I'm still overseas, and trying to deal with this indirectly through my relatively clueless relatives. I've briefly talked to the A/C guys who installed it, and they said that it would be better to replace than fix it. I'm not sure if that's true, since the unit I have was not cheap, and it still technically works (at least during the winter). I'm beginning to wonder if it's not just a simple problem with the control panel; if the unit was actually busted, then wouldn't both functions be disabled? What do you think? Also, as a bit of an aside, I'm looking to get a small portable unit for mid-sized rooms in the house, since that as yet has no A/C installed. I've been looking at this one and this one, but I know very little about the brands themselves. Any suggestions? Would a 7-9k BTU unit be sufficient? __________________ I am the very model of a moderator gentleman.

04-08-2007, 04:30 AM	#2 (permalink)
Cavi Mike rightUp Location: San Fran, NY USA	If what you say is true: 'it's actually a heat pump' than it's not really a heater, it's just a fan that draws in warmer air from outside. Your 'heater' will still work even though the A/C part has stopped working. They may be controlled from the same knob but they are two different systems, much like a car. A/C components aren't just expensive, they are expensive to repair due to the chemicals inside. Proper containment procedures are timely and not cost effective so replacing a unit may be cheaper than repairing. __________________ pearls ain't free

04-08-2007, 04:11 PM	#6 (permalink)
bermuDa don't ignore this--> Location: CA	hmm, I guess that leaves the question of where to put the A/C unit, since the one I have is huge and eats up the only window suitable for mounting. Also, any recommendations on those units I linked to? Does anyone have a brand preference for climate control? Unfortunately, price is a factor... __________________ I am the very model of a moderator gentleman.

04-09-2007, 02:24 AM	#7 (permalink)
scout Psycho	A heat pump is actually an air conditioner that has a reversing valve which allows the refrigerant flow to reverse so that you pick up heat from the outside air and with refrigerant you take the heat in to the indoor air coil. The heat is then removed as the fan blows air across the coil. Most heat pumps have some sort of backup "emergency" electric heat for use during the defrost mode or when there is a problem. If your unit is in fact a heat pump this electric emergency heat is probably what you have been using to heat the home. One of several things could be wrong. You could have a bad thermostat, bad mode switch or of the unit is fairly new or manufactured in the last 15 years or so it probably has a control board that manages all the functions including the defrost and there could be a problem with it. Any of the above functions I would recommend you repair the unit rather than replace it as it will be much tons cheaper to repair rather than replace. If there is a problem with the compressor it isn't necessarily any cheaper but a lot wiser to replace the unit rather than repair because of the warranty the new unit will have. In the long run you will save money. Did they tell you what the problem was or just tell you that the unit needed replaced? If the unit does in fact need to be replaced a cheaper alternative to the heat pump is a air conditioner with electric heat. This typically costs half to two thirds the cost of a heat pump. It isn't near as efficient and will cost you more to heat the house than a heat pump but the upfront costs are considerably cheaper. Hope this helps and good luck! Also, have you thought about just installing a typical ducted system rather than have a hodge podge of window shakers and portable units? The portable units you have linked still need to circulate outside air that's why they come with 71" hoses. The portable units are primarily designed for short term use. By the time you install a new window shaker and buy a couple portable units you will be near the cost of a typical ducted system or multi-evaporator non-ducted system like you see here. There are several manufacturers of ductless systems I just pulled up the Sanyo site because it has a pretty good overview of some viable alternatives I would be considering rather than the hodge podge of shakers and portables. Last edited by scout; 04-09-2007 at 02:49 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

04-09-2007, 04:04 AM	#8 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	in addition to scout's questions, can your relatives verify there is no refridgerant leak? __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

04-08-2007, 06:43 AM	#3 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	If you are in a dry region you might want to consider a swamp cooler as they are much cheaper than AC and have a much lower operating cost. But if it is humid where you are then don't consider a swamp cooler as it won't do anything.

04-08-2007, 12:18 PM	#5 (permalink)
fightnight Insane Location: The lovely Northeast	I think that when this kinda stuff happens, it often winds up saving you time and headache to just replace them. If the heat still works, buy an A/C only unit, which would be cheaper, and still use the current one in the winter. Maybe it's just the kind of person I am, but I'd just replace it.

04-09-2007, 02:36 PM	#9 (permalink)
bermuDa don't ignore this--> Location: CA	Thank you for the detailed explanation! That confirms some of the vague inklings I had about the unit. The problem started long before I had left, and I looked all around the unit and found no leaks that I could detect. I believe I simply explained the problem to the A/C people over the phone, and they automatically suggested a replacement, which to me seemed like a backhanded form of robbery. I will forward your responses to my folks and see that they get a proper repairman to come and look at the unit. Thanks! Also, the main house already has ducting, and as far as I know, just needs an A/C unit installed. We revamped the heating system a while back, but held off on putting in the air conditioner because of the cost. I'm going to tell them to just put their money towards getting a bigger unit that uses the ducting system they spent so much on already. __________________ I am the very model of a moderator gentleman. Last edited by bermuDa; 04-09-2007 at 02:49 PM..

04-10-2007, 05:20 AM	#11 (permalink)
bermuDa don't ignore this--> Location: CA	If it's not A/C ready, we were flat-out lied to by the men who replaced our furnace (within the past few years). According to the folks, it should only be about a grand for the house unit. I'll post any further details as they arise. __________________ I am the very model of a moderator gentleman.

04-10-2007, 07:13 PM	#12 (permalink)
scout Psycho	It's none of my business but a grand sounds pretty cheap. Even if it's only the condensing unit it's still pretty damn cheap. If I was you I would be terribly suspicious of a quote that low. Depending on the size of the unit that is needed for your home that sounds cheaper than the actual wholesale cost on everything. There has to be a catch somewhere or he's getting one helluva deal on equipment. Hope it's true for your sake. Good Luck!

04-11-2007, 06:07 AM	#14 (permalink)
bermuDa don't ignore this--> Location: CA	Thanks for the heads up, fellas. I'll pass it on. __________________ I am the very model of a moderator gentleman.