KnifeMissile

I'm really enjoying this whole embedded video stuff so I thought I'd share another one with my colleagues, here on this board. Please watch this video and share your thoughts...

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/S0OWqoBemyE"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/S0OWqoBemyE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

What dissappoints me is the number of people, who are presumably atheists, who reacted poorly to this video. I really didn't think the message was, at all, subtle. Yet, somehow, many people thought it was some sort of attack on reason...
Am I exaggerating how obvious the message of this video is?

Glory's Sun

There's a similar thread being discussing in another section where athiests created a video on YouTube.

I couldn't care less how a person believes, but what strikes me is that chrisitans are commanded to love everyone and all that, yet, here in this video, I see "stupid atheists" and "atheiests are deluded" and making a statement that a book written by man has all the answeres and is the absolute truth. If I were confused about chrisitanity, I would certainly be more confused after watching something like this.

So what is the point of this video?? I have nfi. Perhaps I took it in the wrong way.. but to my credit, I haven't had my coffee yet.

FoolThemAll

Eh, two likely explanations come to mind:

1. They weren't paying much attention.
2. They're just as quick to make exaggerated generalizations as the creator of that video.

I don't see the point of it. It's not particularly funny and it'll only find a receptive audience with those who already agree. Not because Christians are closed-minded to opposing arguments - though certainly a significant number are - but because people don't tend to listen to someone who disrespects them.

All Christians are literal interpretation fundamentalists who don't believe in gravity.

It's a satire of Christians, made by a non-Christian.

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I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.

Glory's Sun

After I watched it a second time I was wondering if this was the case. Either way it was a pretty lame video.

aberkok

I thought it was funny. If you're questioning why they'd make it, don't stop until you've questioned all satire.

"It says so right on page 1!"

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ratbastid

Can't we all just get along? That's what the magic book tells us to do. And it's the rational thing to do too.

Ourcrazymodern?

Way too subtle. LMAO!!!!!

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Lady Sage

Wheres that pen that god wrote that book with?

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pan6467

100% pure satire.

What is sad is that is the rationale of some Christians, you see it all the time.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Willravel

That's frighteningly obvious. Not only did I get it, but my beagle, Jack, got it.

Seaver

I agree; even my dog Kaiser (German Shepard) walked up, looked at it, and walked away.

Calling this subtle is like calling The Colbert Report subtle.

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"Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas

captobvious

I think you're overestimating the sense of humor of people in general - atheists and Christians.

Ch'i

Yes, you greatly overestimated peoples' sense of humor.

analog

wow. sarcasm as subtle as a punch in the face.

illdeviant

Haha. Not all that subtle. Just seems to me that when Christianity and Atheism are in the same sentence people automatically go into attack mode and get all death match-like. Simple satire simply soars right over their heads. Chill.

It sure is good to be an atheist though^^

SaltPork

WOW! that was great! i love stuff like that. subtle? i don't think so.

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It was like that when I got here....I swear.

FoolThemAll

Agree to disagree. But I don't have much use for satire that doesn't make me laugh.

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I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.

Halx

My mom wouldn't get it.

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Rekna

To me it was obvious, but then again I'm a Christian and I know many Christians and because of this I was able to pick out the stereotype that people give us right away. I bet the people that would have the hardest time seeing this satire are those who are hardcore atheist and view all or a majority of Christians like the supposed one in the video.

KnifeMissile

All christians are Bible literalists to some extent...

I thought it was hilarious. I suppose it may be because I was ready for an anti-atheistic argument only to have the video point out, in an utterly self deprecating manner, the circular reasoning of christianity. The sad thing is that if it were only a little more subtle, it would be probably seem genuine to me, that's how coherent I find religious thinking to be...

I think, perhaps, the point of the video is to get theists to watch it with their guard down, at least for a moment. It's really not that inflammatory. All it does is point out, in an innocuous (and humorous) manner, the fundamental issue with orthodox belief...

I don't agree to that...

Seaver

The problem with the video is they base their arguments on facts they know nothing about.



Show me where in the bible it said how old the world is. It's not in there, it was MUCH later on a theologist came up with the date. It's not in dogma in any religion out there, it's not supported by any church. The gravity is false claim? Show me one church who present that as dogma. This video is similar to making the argument connecting the people who create anti-military web pages (which count and cheer every US death) with atheism as a whole because a few of them are.

It's unnesessarily condescending, that is the problem with it. Point out your issues why you don't believe in a God, but don't put out pompus videos like this and then tell us to lighten up isn't going to spark some magical debate. How many religious people have inspired a good debate with you by starting off every sentence calling you a monkey and say you're going to hell? None? Oh, maybe you should lighten up then.

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"Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas

Yakk

But I am a monkey who is going to hell[1].

All of the cool kids are. Together, our collective coolness will freeze hell and turn it into an arctic paradise, very much like Scandinavia. The former brimstone lakes will provide us with sanaus, and we will riff on monty python jokes for eternity.[2]

...

Speaking of which, picking up satire takes practice. Monty Python provides the practice and training required. The insufficient penetration of Monty Python into the collective consciousness of humankind causes videos like the above to be misinterprited.[3]

...

I just realized -- a faith-based-hell believer who doesn't believe in evolution would think that I'm a non-monkey who is going to hell. Whew, dodged that bullet!

Now I'm gonna stop making jokes, and answer a question seriously:
I can tell you some reasons why I don't have a belief in a particular class of God -- will that do? In return, can I request your reasons why you don't believe in Allah and the Words given by him to his Servant Mohammed? Or Vishnu and the Sanskrit texts. Either will do.

So, why do I lack belief in the God-of-the-Christian-Bible.

Here is some attempts to analyze the bible as a historical document:
http://www.bible.ca/tracks/dp-age-bible.htm

There are parts of the bible that, if literally true, require that God is playing tricks on us: the chronology of the creation of the universe looks nothing like the physical record that is inside the universe.

So it could be a test of faith, or it could be a symbolic description.

Even the age of the earth is based off of explicit descendant lists in the Bible. The exact value might be a bit hard to pin down... but it does provide an overview of the chronology of the Earth.

You can get around this by saying that "parts of the bible are symbolic", but if the bible is a symbolic book that is not meant to be treated literally, which parts are not symbolic? How do you pick the symbolic and not symbolic parts? Is there any cause to believe that the Jesus story was meant to be taken literally? The ten commandments where meant to be taken literally? The god figure mentioned was meant to be taken literally?

Now, don't get me wrong. I believe in the Bible. It is a mass produced book that is all over the world. It contains myths and stories passed down from generation to generation.

The Bible is written as if it where a historical document, yet nearly any part of it that can be checked against history seems to be purely symbolic. So shouldn't I simply hold the entire Bible, from the creation story, to the Jesus story, to the End-Of-The-World story, to the God story to be nothing more than a symbolic myth and an account of what people once believed to be true?

There are very few religions surviving in the world from even 300 years ago. The religions around today have recreated themselves in an attempt to survive overwealming evidence that they where wrong. The same can be said of the early Christians, who took "the end of the world will be in your lifetime" literally. Today, many people who call themselves "Christians" believe in the literal story of Jesus and the literal existance of God.

So we have a bunch of popular young religions that don't stick to their guns in what they claim is The Ultimate Truth that must be taken on Faith, citing a book that contains large amounts of unmarked symbolism as some kind of evidence, who happen to be somewhat popular around where I grew up (to the extent that I was taken to the local God-In-The-Christian-Bible priest for coming of age rituals, weekly ritual cannibalism, etc).

If I wanted to schmooze and use religion to gain social/economic status, I could see using the popularity of the local religion as a method. Other than that, I don't see any cause to have any belief in the Christian-God-From-The-Bible.

Is that a sufficient answer to your request Seaver?

Footnotes:
[1] Where hell is defined as the absence of God. As far as I can tell, I go there every day, as I detect no presence of God.

[2] Assuming Q-M multi-universe theory is true.

[3] It also saves our lives from far too many shrubbery references. Worth it? I report, you decide.

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

Seaver

You can point out all you want fringe elements and form your opinion about the faithful all you want. I'm not here to convert you, I'm not here to discuss faith.

I don't believe all of the Bible. I don't believe in Noah and the Ark, I don't believe God made Eve from Adam's Rib. I don't believe in most of Genesis. Now you will point out how if some can't be taken literally than none of it can. Unfortunately you miss the entire point. The Bible tells us there is a being greater than us, whom wishes us to be good to one another, and will right the wrongs of the world in the end. That if we live right, love one another, and try to make the world better we will live happily ever after.

You see this as childish, maybe it is. However I'd much rather believe in this than believe there is no point our existence other than some sort of evolutionary hick-up, and in the end all we'll be is a dead body.

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"Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas

skier

agreed... And even if you were completly sarcasm impaired the end says the video was inspired by richard dawkins, an evolutionary biologist and staunch critic of creationism.

There is no excuse for those who take this video at face value and your opinion of them should be lowered as such.

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Yakk

Could you explain why you don't believe in Krishna and the Sanskrit texts, or Allah and the book of Mohammed? I asked you before, and I am curious. What standard do you use to pick a God?

Why don't you believe God made Eve from Adam's Rib?

Why don't you believe in Noah and the Ark?

All right. Why that particular God and not Allah, Krishna, Coyote, Mars, Odin or FSM?

Do you believe in any of the Commandments in the Bible? If so, which ones?

Do you believe in the life, death and ressurection of Jesus? If so, why?

Do you believe Jesus made water from wine? Do you believe Jesus brought Lazarus back from the dead? Do you believe that the person Jesus was a fabrication?

I don't know is a valid answer. I'm just curious.

What standard do you use for "good" -- is it Bible based? It probably isn't solely based on the Bible, because I doubt you are in favour of stoning people to death for eating shrimp.

Ah, belief in a just world. I feel that believing that "all goodness will be rewarded" debases goodness, and turns it into nothing more virtuous than a long-term bond purchase at a decent rate.

You mean "live, after we die, happily ever after", is that correct? Why Jesus/God and not Buddist Nirvanah?

Is this an example of Pascal's wager -- one may as well believe X about the universe? Or something else.

One can mischaracterize one's opponent's position easily. As an example:

"The toy of a omnipotent diety in a matrix-universe built for the dieties amusement."

Merely an evolutionary hickup is like calling a diamond "merely soot, rearraged".

...

So, would you accept any belief structure that would grant you something you can call meaning?

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

KnifeMissile

Just out of curiosity, what "facts" did "they know nothing about?"

This is another example false association.

The video never made a generalist statement about all theists. It was a caricature (although, in many cases, it was merely an impersonation) of a fundamentalist christian. You are the one who is taking it as a statement on all christians. The only statement it makes is the one you take from it...

According to your described standard of discourse, satire will never be a valid form of communication. I think what you call "condescension" is merely humour. It does everything you propose it should do but with the novel technique of doing so from the point of view of its opponent. Your example at the end of your paragraph, here, doesn't appear to be analogous to anything discussed in this thread, so I'm not sure what you were trying to say with it...

If you want a good piece of theistic satire, here's one for you:

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QERyh9YYEis"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QERyh9YYEis" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Willravel

Just out of curiosity, what if I find meaning in believing that you're a 6 year old Chinese girl named Ling who loves anime? Does that make you a 6 year old Chinese girl named Ling who loves anime?

DaveOrion

I must agree, but what some see as childish others see as inspirational. I simply dont want to live in a world without God, without meaning, where everything is catagorized and disected by science (much like this board). Some see that as enlightened, but I see at as boring, morose, and totally lacking in imagination. Science cant answer the most profound questions, while philosophy at least tries.

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KnifeMissile

I vehemently disagree with you.

Why does a lack of God rob you of meaning? Doesn't it take more imagination to give yourself meaning than it does to get it from some external source? Especially if you get it from some badly written book... I think discovering the strange and bizarre properties of the universe to be more exciting than reading the Bible over and over again. All the attributes you assign to science I would give to religion, instead...

What do you consider "the most profound questions?"

What's really strange about your opinion is that it's quite unique, even among theists. While pious people obviously feel the same way about God and religion as you do, few of them see science the same way you do. Most see science as the creative endeavor that it is, as well as a means for helping us live our lives. When did you first establish this opinion of science? How did it come about?

Seaver

I never said me believing in a God makes the God exist, which is what that implies.

Allah IS God, so is Yaweh, etc. The difference is in the names which represents the different belief structures. I tend to follow my own conscience in what I wish to believe, and so borrow aspects of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. I don't believe in Krishna because I don't. No justifications can be given.

Believe it or not I do believe in Evolution. To steal from South Park, maybe it's an answer to how and not why.

I don't believe in Noah because it follows way too closely an ancient Babylonian text to be a coincidence. Also a single boat (especially with the ancient technological abilities of the time) could not carry 2 of every creature. If God had intended it to be so (an argument against my logic), he could have just re-created them all. I believe it is, like many of the Genesis stories, are moral fables handed down to teach us lessons. Faith and determination turns a lowly drunk into the savior of all the animals in the world.

No where in the Bible does it say to stone people who break the rules of Kosher dining. You're thinking of the Torah.

My morality is my own. While I will say unafraid that the teachings of my religion has influenced me, my morality is still my own. I find nothing wrong with homosexuality, even though the Catholic Church declares it an abomination unto God (another Torah hand-down, not Bible). Fortunately for people like me, the bible states that one must look unto himself for God will show us the way (sorry, don't have the verse off the top of my head). In other words God will show us what is right, regardless of what is preached or written.

Because I've gone through times in my life where everything fell apart. I was physically crippled, my Grandfather died, I was kicked out of the military (flying was the only thing I ever wanted to do), and was heavily in debt due to the military demanding payment for the college they (up to this point) paid for.

I did not find it comforting reading up on black holes. I did not find it comforting believing there is no meaning to this life other than to procreate and die so other generations can inherit.

Amazingly my life turned around after, in prayer, asking God to help me. It's still far from perfect, but I'm happy. No, I do not devote my life to him. Hell I can hardly ever make it to Church. However I did enjoy the feeling that there was someone to turn to beyond my friends and family (who did help greatly as well).

This is not a logical argument, but it is strong to me regardless. There is a quote, "There are no atheists in foxholes." When the chips are down most of us find our faith. As I said maybe it's childish, maybe it's ignorant, but it's strong and gives us strength in return.

Because I don't look good in orange robes :P

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"Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas

DaveOrion

Why do you ask so many questions??? Really obtuse, sophmoric questions at that. If I didnt know better, I'd think you were trying to get under my skin. I see art as creative, not science. You know, right hemisphere vs left hemishere, logic & reason vs art & imagination. Why would think that I read the bible over and over??? Thats strange...... and as for a profound question, I suppose that would be different for all of us.

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KnifeMissile

I ask questions to better undrerstand your position. That's part of communication. I can't help if they "get under your skin."

You have a very simplistic view of the world. Let me tell you a story. Where I am, I'm surprisingly famous for what I'm about to tell you...

I was in a cafe called the Enchanted Forrest. It was fairly far away from campus but it had sofas and was run by a bunch of raver kids. I was drinking tea and studying calculus when a pair of attractive girls sat beside me. They struck up a conversation by asking me if I were studying for a test. Sadly, I had to admit to them that I had no test coming up and I was just studying for fun because I found my course so fascinating. In particular, I was trying to prove the *three hard problems without the help of the text book (I still needed the least upper bound axiom). Anyway, they asked me why I liked math so much. I told them that I thought it was "so expressive..." They thought that was a weird description of math so I felt obligated to show them how expressive mathematics is. I continued to prove to them that &#x221A;2 is irrational, as an example of the expressive power of mathematics. That was more than ten years ago. To this day, stories of a guy who picked up using the proof of the irrationality of &#x221A;2 still circulate campus. Sadly, my name is no where in the story. I'm just referred to as "they guy who..."

* The three hard problems in calculus are the intermediate value theorem, extreme value theorem and mean value theorem.

What's the point of this story? I like stories...
The point of the story is that science and mathematics require a great deal of imagination and creativity to do. They are expressions of ideas, just like any prose, poem, or song, with the caveat that they must conform to reality. It is every bit as creative as any of the arts...

I didn't think that you repeatedly read the Bible, in particular. I was referring to orthodox theology. You know, "bible study," rather than academic theology, where you study religion in an historical context. I was rebutting your claim that religion takes more imagination than science...

If you are honest when you say that the "the most profound questions" "would be different for all of us" then how can you say that "science can't answer the most profound questions?" Perhaps, for some of us, it can!

You do realize that my question was not directed at you, right? Not that there's anything wrong with that, I just wanted to make sure you weren't confused...

I had almost the opposite reaction. I've lead a depressingly painful life that would surely drive most people in my position to suicide. However, it all turned around when I was finally able to attend university to study mathematics. After giving myself to rationality, I was finally able to achieve happiness.

This is not a logical argument, mostly because I was a reasonable person long before university and religion had nothing to do with the problems of my life. The point of my story is that religion needn't necessarily be the solution to tragedy. There are many ways to find strength. Personally, I think the most powerful way to do this is to not kill yourself...

Well, in all fairness, you did say this:...which suggests that you'd rather believe what's comforting than what's true. Incidentally, this is a popular sentiment among theists...

You also speak of the Torah as if it weren't part of the Old Testement. What's the distinction for you?

Seaver

The Torah is the Old Testament. The Bible is the New Testament.

Yes, it is a chronological story line, the Bible expands on the Torah. However, if you take the time to read it, God is completely different in the New Testament. In the new God is concerned with forgiveness and loving thy neighbor. In the Old he's mostly fire and brimstone. The VAST majority of attacks people have on Christianity actually come from the Old Testament. Homosexuality, slavery, the killing for eating shrimp, etc. are all aspects and duties of the Old Testament. No where do you see Jesus calling for anyone to be stoned.

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"Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas

DaveOrion

Why would an atheist want to understand something they dont believe in??? They wouldnt and dont. They only want to ridicule and scorn the believer, because to them its childish and foolish to believe in God. I will say that some atheists attempt to disguise their ridicule with scientific jargon and analytical double talk. Others make no attempt to hide their disgust for the believer with references to God as the 'flying spagetti monster'. Seaver may want to play your game of 20 questions, but the atheists will never be satisfied with his answers and this game becomes endless.

Actually the Torah, sometimes refered to as the Book of Moses, is the first 5 books of the old testament. But I do agree with your interpretation of the Old and New Testaments. The 'new covenant' is written in the heart and not on paper, so that the individual wants to be righteous for righteousness sake, not because of a set of laws which attempt to dictate obediance to God.

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Yakk

Got it.

So you are a Theist because it makes you feel fuzzy -- understandable.

You are a Christian because it is what you are used to.

That seem like a reasonable description?

You seem to be using a varient of Occam's Razor to determine if a Bible story should be believed. That a fair interpritation?

Calling the Old Testament "not the Bible" is a matter of definition. And a strange one, in my experience. But at least now I understand how you use the words.

So you place more faith in the New Testament than the Old Testament?

Romans 1?

Not that it matters much -- as you have stated, you don't view statements in the Bible as having any real authority.

And you found that reading religious texts, and picking passages to believe in, made you feel better. Makes sense.

That is because you didn't shave your head!

Thank you very much for describing why you do, and don't, believe various things.

Note that I have found in mathematics some of the most creative, enjoyable, fun passtimes. Anyone who has strived and managed to figure out a really tricky mathematical proof would not think that it isn't a creative endevour.

I don't believe in the alternate history worlds created by Harry Turtledove, but I do enjoy learning about them. Just because something is fiction, doesn't mean it isn't interesting.

I'm not asking in order to be converted to your belief or convinced that your belief is right: I'm asking to understand your belief and why you hold it.

Note that I am not a caracture of a human being with one and only one motivation. Very few people are. People are extremely complex and full of wonderous and amazing worlds.

Satisfied? I can understand someone's choices and beliefs without agreeing with them.

You can have a discussion where the goal isn't to come to agreement. I can talk to someone and be indifferent to them changing their minds, even if I think they are wrong, and not believe that there is any chance my mind will be changed. Not all communication is evangelical.

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

KnifeMissile

As DaveMatrix pointed out, the Torah is only the first five books of the Old Testament. However, I understand that all you're saying is that you follow the New Testament instead of the Old one. To its credit, the New Testament is certainly light years ahead of its predecessor but it's still no bed of roses. For insance, Jesus still supports everything his father did in the Old Testament, like in Mark 7:10 "For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'" If you read it in context, it still sounds like he's advocating the death of disobedient children. I guess Jesus can't go against his father or else he'd have to die. Wait a minute, he did die and it was quite a horrendous death, too. Maybe God was punishing his son for undoing all his hard work in the Old Testament?

I'm guessing that you don't think highly of atheists...

You're seeing things too narrowly. "Why would an atheist want to understand something they don't believe in?" Really? This is inconceivable to you? Uh-oh, there I go again with all these questions... I'll try not to pose so many questions to you since it's evident that you find them offensive, although Lord knows why...

I don't understand your contempt for the Flying Spaghetti Monster. shakran also found it insulting but I don't understand why other than, perhaps, that it exposes a fundamental flaw in religious reasoning but I don't see how that's something to get upset over. I mean, if I'm wrong about something, I'd sure as hell want someone to point it out to me. Leaving me in ignorance isn't going to help me, ever... However, I'm now really going too far on a conjecture. I'd ask what, specifically, is so wrong with the Flying Spaghetti Monster but, you know...

Just so you know, I'm happy with Seaver's answers. He had the courage to reveal things about his life that I'm not prepared to detail...

Willravel

As far as my story, my dad is a pastor and I didn't become an atheist until I was in my early 20s. I already understand religion pretty well from living neck deep in it for over 2 decades, going through seminary, building youth programs, and studying for hours a day. Not only that, but when I started questioning my faith, I ran all around town questioning every religion I could. I've read the Qu'ran from cover to cover, twice. I have copies of a dozen religious texts on the shelves of my mini-library, spanning many religions.

Consider this: why would someone living in the present want to understand history? Why would someone who lives in the US want to study China?

Supple Cow

Wow, I've never seen this kind of response from political satire. I don't think that the satire was too subtle - I think anything can be a touchy subject when it hits close to home.

I'm not going to get involved in this argument (it's not exactly just a discussion anymore), but I'll throw in my two cents. What I don't get is how meaning has to come from a higher being or how not believing in a higher being robs life of meaning. If anybody in this thread is looking for meaning that doesn't come from a god or a religion, they should read some Ayn Rand. The Fountainhead or Atlas Shrugged in particular. I'm not being facetious or trying to rile people up - I am just giving my personal experience. I was raised Catholic, went to catechism and read the Bible on countless nights with my mother, but I could never accept the faith. It never felt right to me. Not even for a minute. Not even as a child. The closes thing to a holy book in my life is Atlas Shrugged. Just like Seaver turned to religion in his hardest time, I turned to the philosophy in Ayn Rand's novels. Adopting these beliefs saved me.

DaveOrion

Consider this, Had you 'not' been raised that way and were an atheist now, would you still want to learn all about Christianity??? Doubt it. All I've seen from you is utter contempt, now I understand why. You had it shoved down your throat.....my experience was just the opposite.

__________________
Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

Willravel

Actually, I almost certainly would. I'm fascinated by theology. I just happened to be neck deep in it so my interest was satiated (until I started to realize how destructive actually being in the faith was). I still study religion now, as a militant atheist. It brings a new dimension to the field of study, I'll admit, but I'm still studying as much as ever. I don't have contempt for anyone as much as sympathy. I've been there: in the illusion of security and understanding. I once argued with my biology teacher who was, bless her heart, trying to teach evolution to a pastor's son.