Halx

I'll be honest. I've never been able to look at Jesus on a cross the way many people do. When I look at it, I see violence, public spectacle, forced grief and a little temptation in the form of a scantly clad man. And this was just my first impression, not something I've built up over years of being a religious skeptic. The first time I saw a crucifix, I really felt uncomfortable. Hell, I still feel uncomfortable when I see the large ones. I always feel like, "Hey, that's kinda gruesome... does it really have to be that huge and.. graphic?"

I get the reasoning behind it and all, but that doesn't change the instant evisceral emotions that it causes. Now, not to say anything more than the words following, but if you spent your day staring at a naked dude with no dignity but a strategically placed sash, regardless of what it means emotionally, do you think the image itself might bend your brain a little? Think "A Clockwork Orange."

(Warning: The following paragraph contains tongue-lodged-firmly-in-cheek humor. Not to be confused with sarcasm. Be warned.)

In the same way, I admit that working in the porn industry and handling thousands of naked pictures every day really warped my perception of women. By "warped" I don't want to say that I became a chauvanistic sexist... because I was one BEFORE I ever had that job... I want to describe how much importance a physical presence became part of my desires and expectations. I mean, if being raised by 3 women doesn't condition you to be a he-man woman hater, you're a pussy yourself. Add the constant judgement of "that's hot" "that's ugly" to every image you see and your standards change faster than the MPAA's weblog software.

We're already vaguely familiar with this subject, thanks to Art's Mass Media Mind Control thread, but I'd just like to bring into view the evisceral images we allow into our lives quite intimately. Whether it be a naked martyr-on-a-stick or a gaggle of greased up girls, the more we acclimate ourselves with visual images, the more our lives begin to follow after them.

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Ch'i

I am unsure what exactly you would like us to discuss. You have probably stated it, but the question eludes me. Would you mind elaborating?

KnifeMissile

If Jesus were executed in the twentieth century, we'd be wearing electric chairs around our necks...

Val_1

Crucifixes do seem to put the focus on the method, rather than reason. Speaking of crucifixes, something I always thought was funny (and there may be a reason that I'm totally unfamiliar with), was that in the 10 Commandments (which are supposed to be the actual words straight from god) it states no graven images. But, the catholic church removed that commandment, then adorned their churches with tons of graven images. Seems like editing god. Weird. I'm not judging. Just wondering.

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Lady Sage

Brilliant thought. Just think... if Jesus came back tomorrow and saw the device of his death around millions of necks...

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Astrocloud

Just for you Hal.

politicophile

Yeah, I never really got the whole crucifix thing either. It always seemed pretty clear to me that making images of Christ without the express written consent of the NFL was strictly prohibited.

But hey, if Christ suffered really terribly before he died, he must have been the son of god, right?

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SaltPork

The crucifix is more a Catholic thing than any other religion. I recall NEVER seeing a crucifix in any Protestant church I went to. Having grown up going to Protestant churches, whether Presbyterian, Baptist, or Congregational, there were only ever crosses..no Mary, no Jesus on a stick, no holy water. Just good old fashioned God, his boy, and the spook. Now that I'm married and could care less about religion, i let my wife do the choosing. She chooses the church of the holy pedophile down the road, and that poor bastard hangs from the cross, bleeding, looking sad, but it's all okay, because the priests are touching the kids, stealing the offering and Mary looks innocently on. Gruesome indeed.

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shakran

Now THAT'S funny.

guthmund

I'm uncomfortable with the whole crucifix thing as well because...well, it seems an awful gruesome and horrible moment to celebrate. I would think his resurrection would be the thing to celebrate, yes? I mean everyone dies, nothing special about that.

I also--and I'd never admit this in real life because it's just too stupid--get a bit uncomfortable because there really seems to be a lot of eroticism trapped in those giant Jesus crucifixes. That is to say, Jesus is always well defined, usually pretty buff and that sash is just one stiff breeze from flying open and, to be honest, that makes me a bit uncomfortable because...well, I shouldn't be thinking of Jesus' dork in church and yet it always seems the logical ending to that particular trail of thought.

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Daniel_

I remember some commedian (but not exactly who) that compared the felings of Jesus looking down at the world and seeing crosses with the reaction one would have expected if one went up to Jackie O the seventies and told hor how much they loved JFK and proved it by showing her a little gold riffle round their neck.

The crusifixion was a brutal, horrific form of torture and execution. The crusifix was not the original symbol of Christ. In the first generations of x-tianity the symbl was the fish (because the letters spelling the greek word for FISH :

It was only later x-tians that adopted the cross. I always assumed it was a bit of a persecution thing - early x-tians wanting to moan about how tough they had it.

For the richest organisation on the planet, they sure have a big chip on their shoulders about poverty.

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KnifeMissile

That was the late and great Bill Hicks. Here's a YouTube link to an act he did where he made that joke. It's exactly 7:00 minutes into the video, if you just want to skip to that particular joke...

He's made another comparison between Jesus and JFK. He likes to talk about the JFK assasination a lot, even in his acts, and he has this to say about it:

MSD

According to Christian doctrine, the act of dying on the cross was Christ's sacrifice to give mankind salvation for eternity. It's not glorifying death and violence, it's an in-your-face reminder of Christ's suffering. This is what your savior selflessly allowed to be done to him for your sake.

kurty[B]

I thought the act of bleeding from every poor in the Garden of Gethsemane was giving mankind salvation. Dying on the cross just happens to be a morose and disgusting way to die that certain Christian doctrines decided to glorify. Personally, I think it's a grotesque display and justifies violence in the name of the lord. I think a symbol to show Jesus being a "healer", or great example would be more beneficial.

Carno

Bleeding from every pore? What the fuck?

Is that in there?

flstf

I think the more we see of something the more we become used to it and the less power the image has. Someone viewing a crusifix for the first time probably gets quite a negative jolt. Someone viewing nudity and pornography probably gets exited at first then it just becomes boring. If everyone ran around naked and engaged in sexual acts openly we would probably long for the days when this stuff used to excite us more.