Orange

I think some of you are kinda shooting at the wrong angle. Sure, the scrotum is just the name for a human body part, and should not be considered something "bad". However, one could really question why, of all body parts, the author decided to use that one? To teach them the name of part of a male genetalia?

Is it wrong? No. But you can't say that the author didn't stop to think about choosing this body part for a specific reason. Wether it be defiant against the more conservative type person, or any other reason for that matter. If you ask me, it would be just as popular a book if the author had just went with a leg or something. This is just asking for trouble.

smooth

seems to me that the author already stated the story was based on a true event. that was posted a few replies back.

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"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

Orange

Regardless, no one was stopping the author from changing a few things. Usually stories based on true events are not 100% accurate.

smooth

I don't understand your respones.
You first claimed that it wasn't wrong or anything, you were just curious why the author chose to use the word scrotum.

I explained that the author just used an event that happened next door.

Now you want to know why he didn't change the facts?
Who knows? Maybe because it's funny because its taboo.
Lots of young boys are giggling and holding their nutsacks right now.
Big deal, I don't really care why authors choose the words they do, that seems like a ridiculous standard to me.

I guess if you're so inclined, you could write a story about being bitten on the kneecap. This author chose a ballbag. Next week, someone will get hit on the tit by a volleyball...who knows.

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

Orange

How do you get that I thought it was wrong from my second response? I just said the author could have changed a few things to avoid obvious drama.

Here is how I think. There are two people sitting on a plane. One person thinks the word crap is ok to say in public, the other one doesn't. Really, the word crap isn't anything to get worked up over, but you should still respect that other person and not say it. Will you die if you don't say crap? Unless you will, you probably should just not say it. It is a question of respect, nothing else.

Ourcrazymodern?

Wow...
Let's watch our language!

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

shakran

Why should the author have to change anything? If you don't like what someone has to say, don't buy their book. But unfortunately some people take that a step further and try to prevent ME from buying their book as well. That is atrocious.

This society will be much better off when people realize that they have no right to force everyone else to subscribe to their own personal morals.

As long as what you want to do does not harm someone else, you should be able to do it. If you want to write an entire book with nothing BUT the word "scrotum" in it, he should be able to do that without anyone trying to stop him from writing it or trying to sell it.

Let 'em vote with their wallets.

mx5me

Um, what? Where to start... How about with your assumptions: 1. The librarians who opposed this book are women. 2. The women who oppose this book are sexually attracted to women. 3. Sexual attraction to women results from hating or being fed up with men. 4. If the book referred to a female organ, there wouldn't have been an uproar. 5. The "choice" to be homosexual results from ignorance of facts and reality. 6. Book banning hasn't been attempted on grounds of excessive violence or racism. 7. You'd know if your teacher was a lesbian.

I'll cut the list off there. Unless you can give some evidence of a link between "militant lesbians" and book banning, then this was just an ignorant rant. That isn't harmless because it detracts from the real issue and attributes problems to unrelated people or groups of people. Maybe you can attribute the next social problem to the Jews and the great Jewish Conspiracy. Such logic was seriously harmless during the 30's.

Charlatan

I am pretty sure the key here is the if you don't like reading the word scrotum to your kids... don't buy the book.

It's that simple.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Bill O'Rights

It's not my kids that I'm worried about. I would certainly never expose thier innocence to such debauchery.
It's your kids that concern me. It's only a matter of time before your little deviants, with thier filthy language, come into contact with my own children. Then they might even go so far as to start forming thier own ideas and thoughts. It will be complete and total anarchy. Chaos will rule supreme.

Then, the next thing you know, words like "penis", "anus", "vagina" and *gasp* "scrotum" will be brought into the lexicon and lose all shock value. Where will we be then, huh? Millions of pre-adolescent children would have nothing to titter about. Think about that, why dontcha.

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"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Willravel

It was a rant, but nothing I've ever done, am doing, or will ever do will be ignorant.

After I wrote, it, I realized that some of it could be offensive, so I wrote my second post.

It was meant to be an exaggerated reactionary explosion at the story. The honest truth is, I really don't care. If I met one of these people on the street, I'd probably just chuckle at them and hope they would somehow realize that they have way too much time on their hands. If it happens at my daughter's school, I'd simply go in and have a calm, rational discussion with them. If they weren't able to see that their move was somewhat hypocritical and very illogical, so be it. My daughter can read what she wants at home (within reason). These people only control a small library. Public libraries will continue to hold a plethora of books, not to mention the Barnes and Noble's, Boarders, and Amazon.com's of the world. You can get a book if you want to read it. If my daughter wants to read “The Higher Power of Lucky,” by Susan Patron, this year’s winner of the Newbery Medal, she can go right ahead.

Ourcrazymodern?

will? You obviously know the power in words, and use them well. I'm wondering about ever, will ever. These sound a bit extreme.

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Charlatan

I hadn't thought about the absence of tittering masses.

What was I thinking? You are right, as usual.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Ourcrazymodern?

The tittering will surely continue, with changing focus.

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

snowy

Just to note, most 4-year-olds I know are familiar with the word "scrotum." But that is because they are raised to not be ashamed of their bodies, and to know the correct words for body parts--ALL of them.

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cyberdiva

I think there should be a big sticker on the front of the book that reads "this book contains the word scrotum" ...I'm joking

I always find that the opinion on issues like this tend to be split based on a lot of individual preferences. For example teaching kids proper body part terms is a pretty popular thing to do nowadays. Women generally feel more strongly about these sort of issues because we're more emotional creatures and stereotypically we worry more. I can definitely see the point in saying "if you knew there might be backlash, why would you even go there"

analog

That would be hilarious... and scrotum would be in huge letters, for all who pass by it to see. lol

Willravel

...and a picture.

Ourcrazymodern?

probably in a dangerous red

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

Miss Mango

I wasn't for a second suggesting that I would let my kids look around on the internet until they found porn. I was suggesting that they'll learn more there than from the book. It still doesn't mean that putting the word 'scrotum' in a children's book is acceptable. I'd be willing to leave that to sex education lessons, and, yes, to playground chat and the inevitable 'extracurricular information' my children might happen upon. You can't control everything your kids do and pick up, it'd be naive to presume you can. I learned the word 'fuck' when I was 10 from a schoolmate. Yes, it would have happened eventually. My parents couldn't have prevented that, it happened away from their control. But, easygoing and relatively liberal as they were with regards to my upbringing they would have wanted me reading a children's book containing that word.

As for 'twisted and unbalanced'... I shouldn't have used the word 'twisted'. But 'unbalanced' illustrates the point I was highlighting there, which was that some of the above posts are bordering on suggesting that it's actually beneficial to the child's development to read the word 'scrotum', using this flimsy argument as some sort of defence for using it, which is simply a bad, bad argument. And back we come to the statement that nobody here (at least, nobody who didn't encounter inappropriate language in books as a child) grew up unbalanced as a result of that. The argument suggesting that it might benefit my child is totally nonsensical, and about as strong as wet tissues for supporting the use of the word.




I agree with and support free speech, contrary to what my previous post may have suggested, but I also endorse common sense. Banning the book would be a bad thing to do, and I actually believe that censorship would also be a bad move - if it were on the part of anyone but the author herself. I'm not against the schools which have decided not to put the book in their libraries. And if I were in charge of a school, that's the decision I would take too. But I think that if a school's willing to let their children read the book, go ahead. I'm not going to go all-out book-burner, because I think that's too far and irresponsible. I would say that the author shouldn't have written that, but if there's going to be a change to the book it should be the author's decision and nobody else's.

If my first post gave you the impression that I was for banning the book or even forcibly censoring it, I apologise, because that's not my stance. My thoughts on everything involved including what I'd do if I were a parent faced with this, which are all I intended to put across, are that if people don't mind their children reading the book, okay. I wouldn't let my kids read it not only because of the use of the word but also because there are thousands of other books out there which they can read which I'm not bothered with at all. You can call it hypocritical because some books I'm fine with might contain themes which are arguably worse... I'd say that's a part of a much larger debate which has no place in this thread. If I were the author, I'd seriously think about why I was including the word 'scrotum' and whether it was really necessary (and I find myself wondering about her reasons for using it), but, creatively, it's her decision to use the word and I can disapprove but it's not my place to force that opinion upon her or anyone else.

I hope I've made my points clear, and I'm sorry if you miscontrued anything I said.

Bear in mind, of course, that having not read any part of the book, what I think about the situation would be heavily based on the actual words. So what I'm saying comes with that caveat. But I'd put money on my opinion being largely the same if and possibly when I do read it.

smooth

I suspect that had it not been for this thread, or had the point not been brought to your attention, and you had read the book, you would have glanced right past the word without a second thought. You might not have even noticed the word was even in there and had to re-read it if someone had come to you later.

That's how insignificant one word is in a story, and how our mind works when we're reading through a bunch of material. Possibly different had you been reading it aloud...but not by much.

At the risk of poisoning someone's mind, I'd be interested for a member here to hand the book to a teen and see if the kid even takes notice of the passage. I bet not.

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

shakran

ya know, it struck me. Today there was an article somewhere (I can't keep track all the time 'cause I read dozens of newspapers and wires per day) talking about 14 year old pregnant girls. 14! Babies are having babies and we're trying desperately to hide the fact that body parts have names from them. Got news for the censorship crowd - the kids already know about sex. They probably know more than you about sex. It's time we stop worrying about hiding sex from them, and start having mature discussions about it with them. Maybe then we can reverse this trend of little kids having children.

Charlatan

I see no way in which the use of the word or even talking about a scrotum or testicles can be, in any way damaging to a kid.

All I am hearing is prudish people who appear to be afraid of their bodies (I may be wrong on this so someone please educate me as to why telling my kid that the wrinkled sac below his penis is called a scrotum).

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Orange

Bah, what kids? Im more worried about the single librarians. They shouldn't have to see these words! It might hurt them...