abaya

This thread stems off a point I made in the thread on immigration ("Letter to the Editor") regarding identity. It brought up the question for me of what identity actually means to people, including the role of nationality. So I thought I would ask here:

How would you answer the question, "What are you?" or, "What do you identify as?"
What are the symbols that mean something to you? Is your language or flag something you define yourself with?
How about religion? Gender? Sexuality? Being human?
What is at the core of your SELF, the core of what forms your worldview, the stuff that means the most to who you are?

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Willravel

I'd usually respond, "Oh, I'm just some guy."

Family man, altruistic, friend, defender.

skier

While it is easy enough to describe what i am- Student, son, skier, gamer, boyfriend, canadian, white, bilingual, latvian, etc.
as for who I am, and what i really identify with at my core? my beliefs. My self does not depend on an association to a cultural group; I am simply a person trying to live according to the moral guidelines i've set for myself.

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"Asking a bomb squad if an old bomb is still "real" is not the best thing to do if you want to save it." - denim

snowy

I am a 24-year-old half-Dutch, first-generation American, Episcopalian, Pacific Northwestern liberal, who likes sushi, lattes, beer, and Volvos.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

abaya

Good stuff so far. But I forgot to answer my own question... what are the things that shape my current identity?

I am a human being and a woman. My parents were immigrants, and so is my husband. There are five languages and countries among us. I have two passports and I am from rural-suburban Seattle. I am trained as a teacher and as an anthropologist. I am a former evangelical, and I am not an atheist.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

MageB420666

Me = Apathetic and weird.

I try not to identify with any one group cause then that group tries to lay claim to me and tell me what to do.

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Apathy: The best outlook this side of I don't give a damn.

Jinn

I'm not really sure I do I could do it justice with text. I'm not "white, male, college-educated." I'm dynamic enough that there aren't enough adjectives to describe what is "me," and I'm sure that the descriptions you all have thus given hardly describe you as I'd percieve you if I met you.

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"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

abaya

I'm not talking about a description of one's personality... I'm talking about what you *identify* as... there's a difference there, to me. My description was not about how I present myself as a person... it was about the things that shape my decisions and the way I see the world. What determines my biases and opinions, if you will.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Carno

The idea that one's identity can be understood simply by listing words is kinda objectionable to me. Hopefully nobody is as shallow as a bullet list of adjectives strung into a couple sentences.

Halx

You tell me. I'm interested in knowing how I appear to others because it directly affects my ability to lead.

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[Don't Feed The Animals]

abaya

Look, I'm not looking for some massive psychoanalytic breakdown of all the factors that make you what you are. I am just wondering what the major influences are on people's expressions and opinions... the things or events that form a person's worldview. Was not intending whatsoever to "reduce" people down to a list of adjectives... give me a break.

For me, those things boil down to a handful of things... and yes, there are a ton of other minor influences, but I can say that most of my opinions are informed by the things that I mentioned earlier. 10 years ago, the major things were very different for me, and my opinions were drastically different as a result. My identity was in flux for a good number of years, but I feel like it's finally settling down some... and yes, I can use some words to describe those things. That's all.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

powerclown

Downtown, I'd be known as "honky".

mixedmedia

sentient bag of bones with a vagina...progenitor of three additional sentient bags of bones with vaginas...currently residing centrally in the western hemisphere...likes to read, listen to music, watch movies, talk about politics and think bad thoughts

sorry, couldn't help it.

...but seriously, I haven't a clue what my identity is...at least not in any easily expressed fashion. I don't relate to any ethnic group. I'm not sure where my ancestors came from. I am not religious. Come to think of it, I've pretty much always been anti-group.

A loner. A rebel...Dottie.

Actually, my description above probably comes closer to the truth of how I identify than anything else I might be able to come up with.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

roachboy

identities.
yikes. now there's a problematic category.
if this is linked to the other thread on immigration/migrant workers, then what would follow is that these categories are (a) ideological and (b) are imposed on Others as a marker of their exclusion. so it is not surprising that folk who do not experience that exclusion find the matter of category assignment to be problematic.
that's how this business operates: so to the objection that they dont express one's complexity....the answer is: well of COURSE they dont.

anyway: i lived in france for quite a while and fond myself being identified initially as american..which meant that i could nto speak french, was rich and kinda stupid.....then as an american leftist...which was better but had the perverse consequence of making me into a curiousity. so i would find myself being introduced to folk in that way by people in my neighborhood, and the feeling would always creep in that the line between introduction and what a carnival barker does was very thin.

"hurry hurry step right up and see this amazing Freak of Nature..."

on the other hand, living there forced me to deal with my own americanness, which i thought i could slip away from only to find that everything i did and said seemed to demonstrate it. it was not--and still is not--a category i identify with or in terms of: but in my sense of personal space, in how i carry myself, in how i dress and speak, i am it. i guess.

the assignment didnt come from me simply because the category doesnt function for me as it does socially in another country.

i did find it strange that as people got to know me a little, they would create a little space for me to the side of the stereotypes rather than wonder about the stereotype itself. but you see this happening all the time, everywhere, it seems: x is a good exemplar of category 1, which is generally understood to be a negative category, deginating folk that "we" are predisposed to not like, not for any particular reason, but mostly because they are not "us"....i dont know why this happens. maybe there's something unnerving about others because they accidentally reveal the arbitrariness of the "us". and that, apparently, is not good.

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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

World's King

I'm the King.

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

hambone

Okie Dokie.

I am first off, a follower of Christ. This is not just a religion to me, or a group to associate with. It shapes who I strive to be through my thoughts and actions. It permeates my character, so I suppose this would be in the forefront when attempting to define my identity.

I have a distance in my views of things. By this I mean, I try very hard not to view things from the perspective that the rest of my life choices have placed me in. I instead try to view things from a step back, to try and see the whole picture, and moreover, understand situations, or people, or things. Some may say this clashes with the stereotype of 'Christian', which is why it is more than a religion for me.

I am content. It takes very little to please me. I like most things, most people, most places.

I love. I do not agree with everyone by any stretch, but I can honestly say I do my best to express love to all I meet. Differences can divide, but they don't need to.

I am cautious. I question everything. I base my beliefs and values on tested experience and am stable in them. However, I desire to know more at all times. I like to be challenged in my beliefs, since if my beliefs are correct, a challenge will strengthen them, if they are wrong, a challenge will allow me to change them.

I am more interested in you than me. Using the word 'I' so much here is uncomfortable. I would rather know of You.

I suffer from low self esteem. Its a up and down situation and has gotten much better since I met my wife, but it is still present and does affect my thoughts and actions.

That is the best I could come up with in how to describe what makes me Me.

__________________
"Like liquid white from fallen glass,
Nothing to cry over"

abaya

I agree. A Christian asked me the other day, did I know what I believed anymore? I told her, No, not really. But I know what I *don't* believe in. And I think that's just as valid a form of identity as having "beliefs," I guess. Same thing with identity...

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Daniel_

Mmmmmm. Vagina....

------------------------------------------------------------

For myself?

I consider myself, English first, British second, European Third (for nationality).

I'm a father and a husband, I'm heterosexual, white and overweight.

I'll get back to you if anything else occurs to me.

Forgot to add.

I'm an atheist. I was raised by atheist parents who sent me to a Church of ENgland school, and I was (until 18) a member of my local Scout group - I went to Church (by choice) most weekends for over 10 years, and one day I realised I knew the words, I believed in the morality, but I could not honestly say "I believe in God and Jesus".

I admire belief in others, but I have none.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

Manic_Skafe

I am exactly as much the physical embodiment of a lottery drawing as I am the same as everything else. Existence is an absolute contradiction. I am the negation.

__________________
"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

Wilkerson

I'm a wild mixture of cultural backgrounds and religions. Add to this being first generation and second generation and unknown generation. Grandfather on Mother''s side was European born, Grandmother was born in the U.S.A. and Mother was born in Europe, although a different country from where her Papa was born-yes, I know it's confusing and because of this I consider myself at the very least tri-generational as a U.S. citizen. My father was 1/2 native American (in those days they were called American Indian) and 1/2 other.

I follow no religion, do not dwell on ethnic or cultural background for defining me, I consider myself a soul hanging out in an Earthbound shell, sent here for the purpose of research. Years back in an afterschool history program, our motto was We are here for learning and fun. That is how I define my being-I am here for learning and fun until my education and work visa on earth expires and I am reunited with the great collective of souls.

Ourcrazymodern?

I'm a humanist. Other isms hold no interest for me and I struggle every day to understand my fellows. Go figure.

Mmmmmm, Vagina. Thanks Daniel, and with a capital V, no less!
(The same thing sprang into my mind when I read mm's post...hoping that doesn't make me a sexist!)

__________________
BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

JumpinJesus

Great thread, abaya. I find it fascinating to learn how people identify themselves.

I had the benefit (or misfortune) of growing up in a household that placed absolutely no importance whatsoever with cultural identity. We were not religious so there was another area with which I had no connection.

As I grew older and began forming an identity for myself, I found that I didn't care to be identified as British-German-French-American. It means nothing to me to identify with a nationality. Even calling myself "human" seemed too contrived, as if I were making an effort NOT to be labelled. I began to believe that I just am.

My thoughts and opinions are based on the idea that I have one go at this world; what I do with my time here is up to me, not a cultural or religious imperative.

__________________
"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

shesus

I don't know who I am really. I am a white woman, which typically doesn't work for my advantage as a teacher when those are the first quotas to fill up. But I don't think of myself in term of race although I am aware that I'm a woman.

I grew up Baptist. I don't believe in organized religion anymore and I feel the gap of something missing...just not sure what yet.

I'm definitely American in the fact that I've never been out of the country, but I don't believe or agree with a lot fo American beliefs and customs. I often feel like a tourist just going through the motions of what society expects from me.

Yea, I think I would be a lot more complete if I knew who I was and what I identified with. My biggest stressor is money so that is a symbol that has a negative or positive reaction on me. No positive reactions lately though.

I guess I would be a human that is driven by money and searching for something to believe in and hoping I find it before I die. I'm a lot more than that, but that is the first thing that came to mind.

**I'm under a lot of extra stress right now though so these thoughts are probably skewed by cloudy, tired thinking. Since I don't know who I am, I tend to change a lot depending on outside circumstances. One day I want to be content and calm...that's my life goal.**

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I heard you sold it

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aberkok

My ethnic background is Turkish, but not having ever lived there and for most of my life thinking my Turkish relatives were lame, I don't really identify that much as a Turk...although now that I'm an adult, I'm more open to it.

I lived in England for 4 very formative years and also in part to me being born there, I identify with the English, sometimes more than I do with the Canadians, which is ultimately what I am.

Getting out of ethnicity, I identify largely with musicians. I am dedicating my life to this and am often around others who have done the same. I speak the lingo.

But it's always changing and gaining elements of one thing and losing another. I guess it's like the old question... if a boat has a piece of it replaced and repaired every few months, after 20 years, is it the same boat? Over the last month I've gained several new aspects of my identity... gym attendee, food and food politics enthusiast, Battlestar Galactica super-fan. No doubt some of the things I so strongly identify with now that make me who I am will be lost.

Oh yeah and don't think you could slip this one by me, MM:

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mixedmedia

...and a woman cool enough to have an Edward Gorey avatar.

Sorry, I got excited...as you were.

I was hoping someone in the know would come around.

Although I think it actually goes more like....I'm a loner, Dottie, a rebel.

You're alright, aberkok.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

hrandani

This is a major reason why therapy doesn't work for a lot of people, because while you can break something down into a science, people cannot communicate on that level. Labels don't work.

For instance an anthropologist would tell you I'm a hick back of the woods white male misogynist Texan with a liberal streak and shades of a anti-authoritarian complex, I certainly wouldn't identify myself as such, nor would it be readily apparent to anyone meeting me. What I do identify myself as is more or less pointless.

abaya

Naw, a psychologist or sociologist might call you that. That's what their jobs and methodologies are. An anthropologist would say you're human, then start asking you questions and observing how you interact with others and go from there.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Charlatan

This is a really hard question for me... I tend to be rather zelig like in the way I think about myself. I fit into a lot of different pigeon holes.

I am

• an educated, white male
• a father and husband
• a Torontonian
• a Canadian
• an expat
• the short, pudgy kid that eveyone picks on
• my mother's son
• an angry young man who isn't so angry or so young anymore
• a funny guy
• a voice
• a horny, sick bastard

The list goes on. From day to day any one of these descriptions can sum up who I think I am.

The neat thing is that I am all of them (and more) at the same time regardless of what I might be thinking or what others are perceiving.

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

hagatha

This is pretty deep stuff, I actually had to think. Hmmm...
-Canadian
-Artist
-Western European heritage
-Spiritual but not religious
-Surprisingly brave
-Loyal
-Forgiving
-Funny
-Forthright
-Loving

I think that's a pretty acurate self assessment.

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Thats the last time I trust the strangest people I ever met....H. Simpson

abaya

Neat indeed. That's the idea I'm trying to explore with this thread. What are some of the words you'd use to describe part or all of you, all at once, regardless of your own or others' opinions... because those are the things that manifest themselves in your biases and the way you see the world. Or at least, that's my idea of identity (which clearly not everyone here agrees with... though I'm going with roachboy as to an explanation of why).

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

maleficent

I am me...

__________________

Daniel_

"I Am (I'm Me)" perhaps?

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

Cynthetiq

only human

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Gilda

I am

• Grace's wife.
• Sissy's sister.
• an immigrant's daughter.
• a person, a woman.
• broken.
• a teacher and scholar.
• homosexual.
• a spiritual person.

__________________
I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that.

~Steven Colbert

Ourcrazymodern?

[
"Even calling myself "human" seemed too contrived,"

.[/QUOTE]

You have got to be kidding!("PS) all those typing on these keyboards are...human. Keyboards, contrived?

---are you an alien?

__________________
BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

Baron Opal

I am an American Baron of gothic heritage trying to find the balance point between helping people, even those whom I despise, and leading people, even those content to be sheep.

Seeker

I identify with a journey of spirit.

I sort of identify with Kahlil and Jesus, although I'm not trying to *be* like them or follow in their footsteps...

If that makes sense.

__________________
To those who wander but who are not lost...

~ Knowledge is not something you acquire, it is something you open yourself to.

AbigailAlfano

I am my childrens' mom.
I am my husband's soul mate.
I am a singer, and a do-gooder.
I am a ham!
I am deadset on making people smile.
I am an animal lover. I am a sucker for puppies, and kittens.
I am smart and I am fit.
I am spoiled.
I'm a hippy.
I'm a goofball.

Chimera

I am American by birth, but really have no Idea what that means. I like the Flag of my country, but do not worship its cloth. I love what the core of my country stands for, but rarely see it in practice, thus I cannot shed the frustration created by limitations of mind found in American Government. Though I can trace my roots in America back to the early 1600's, I don't see this as anymore American than someone who's parents became citizens in the 1990's.
I am not religious by most standards, as I find the very Idea of supporting "One God" distastful. I am Male, quite attracted to females, and generally considered to be Human....by most who know me. My worldview is complex, as I would hope most are. I tend to look at the future as a guide (three kids), and consider current direction in the context of how it will treat my children. Something of an environmentalist, I try to be low impact where possible, and worry somewhat about what I am doing to the planet they will live on in 100 yrs.
Of all the things this reality has placed before me.....I value my wife above all things, but consider the children a part of her in this regard.

ngdawg

I am the granddaughter of immigrants who had rather fascinating stories they seldom, if ever, told.
I am the first daughter of two people who came from such diverse backgrounds that, for a short time, my mother was disowned by her parents for marrying my father.
I am the mother of children who came to me through the wonders of science.
From the moment of my first breath, I was unnormal and have given up trying to be normal.
I am a cynical patriot.
I am such a procrastinator, even my hair hasn't gotten around to getting gray yet.
I was raised Catholic until my mother realized how Jewish she truly is; I do not believe in God.
I am intelligent, stupid, mature, childish, attractive, ugly, caring, nonchalant.
I'm just one person trying to play the game the best she can with the cards she's dealt.

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