Jimellow

I was driving to Barnes & Noble today, and opted to take the highway. In PA, the police generally use VASCAR (timed speed over a set distance) to get speeders, and thus there are often two white lines spaced apart on highways, especially near overpasses.

While I was on the highway today, I was in the left lane, behind a tractor trailer, and after looking back to see if a cop car were camping a common area, I instead saw a helicopter hovering in the air!

I had seens the "Speed Enforced by Aircraft" signs previously, but never really put much belief in the notion that police departments actually spend the money to put a chopper in flight solely to nab speeders.

On my return trip, I opted to take the highway home again, in the hopes of seeing the chopper again. I did, but this time it was very high in the sky, doing a sort of flyover.

I am now curious how this system works.

Does the chopper call down to a car on the ground, who then pulls speeders over? Or does it get liscense plates and mail tickets?

Also, what does the chopper use to get speed? VASCAR? Radar? It's my understanding that only state troopers can use radar in PA, and providing they aren't the ones up in the chopper, I suspect VASCAR would be the method of determining one's speed.

I am mildly curious if I could get a ticket mailed to me, as I am pretty sure I was doing about ten MPH over when I saw the helicopter initially. I am not too concerned about my personal experience, but am curious about how the process works.

I guess my two primary questions are in regards to how specifically one's speed is determined, as well as how the speeder is notified (pulled over, or mailed a ticket).

Interesting stuff. It's made me think about the chances of me being caught, given that the highway was full and my car just one of many. Ironically, there was a point on the return trip that I was going faster, despite me being there to catch a glimpse of the helicopter a second time.

Then again, I suspect it's possible the chopper wasn't there to get speeders at all, but given the fact that I saw it hovering in the sky near a marked speeding area, I am pretty sure it was there for that reason.

I'd appreciate any thoughts, feedback, or even experiences with those familiar with speed being enforced by aircraft. I think I might go for a little drive again, just to see if I can witness this again. It's a first for me, and kind of exciting!

__________________
Desperation is no excuse for lowering one's standards.

Cynthetiq

In California the used small planes because helicopter fuel is quite expensive.

from a local NBC affiliate

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

cyrnel

Are you sure it wasn't a news crew or something? I haven't seen choppers doing traffic duty. That sounds extremely expensive. Small fixed-wing airplanes are the usual recipe, and yes they radio reports to patrol cars just as the cars do to each other.

Speed timing used to be done like VASCAR but I'm sure the revenue from a busy area would support newer technologies. As for restrictions on use of RADAR etc., that's rarely been a hindrance. They either use department equipment and staff - if revenue supports it - or just deputize contractors. As for validity of an airborne reading, remember the responding patrol car will probably have paced you or used other readings before pulling you over.

__________________
There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

The_Jazz

I've been pulled over by an officer in Iowa who had a spotter in a plane - he told me as much. I never saw the plane, but honestly I don't really remember looking either. Speed timing is really the only way that I can imagine being reliable in a plane since radar and laser accuracy could both be disrupted by turbulence. Timing, however, is an absolute, especially if the lines are far enough apart (1/2 mile+).

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

TexanAvenger

I had no idea how the system was run, though I've seen the signs too. That's actually a really interesting system.

Of course, you've destroyed my 'dive-bomb' theory... which I hold to be more 'enforcement' than just relaying to grounds cars.

shakran

i've actually been up in the airplane they use for this. We were doing a story because they'd just gotten the plane. A cop (usually a state trooper because city cops 1) can't afford an airplane and 2) don't have any roads where it would be practical) sits in the plane looking down at the cars. When he sees one that's speeding, he times how long it takes the car to go from one of the white marks to the other. He has a chart on his knee that tells him the speeds for each second of time it takes. He does this 2-3 times and then computes the average of those 3 readings. If they're too far off from each other he tosses them and tries again. (this means it's theoretically possible to beat VASCAR if you radically change your speed every time you pass a white hash mark). Then he radios to the cop on the ground with the description of the car. As the ground unit closes in the plane stays in contact with him, telling him when he's behind the right car and confirming that the right car is pulled over. He then tells the ground cop what the speed of the car was, and goes off to spot more vehicles. There are often many ground cops working with one plane. It's a very efficient system but it has one significant weakness - -- BOTH cops have to testify against you in court, which can often be difficult to arrange. If you get a VASCAR ticket, it's a very good idea to fight it - you might get off on the cop's failure to appear.

Helicopters are rarely used because they're a lot more expensive to run (and buy), their pilots are a lot more expensive to pay, and they have to land more often to refuel.

Jimellow

Thanks for the replies.

I assume it could have been a news chopper, as the roadways are quite busy around here with the holiday season still in full swing, and maybe they were taking a photo for a news story, or even a traffic report.

This was definitely a helicopter, and the reason I suspected it was police-related was due to it being hovering back and up behind a spot where there are speeding lines, and a place I've seen police sit before clocking speeders.

I did go out again and saw the helicopter in the far distance - even made a few rounds on the same road - but didn't see it as close, or hovering, again.

Personally, I don't see the logic in using a helicopter to hover over a spot a crew of police cars could just as easily access. It's not a stretch of open road, but instead a four lane (two lanes are almost standard around here) road that splits and has many exits along the way. I have seen police cars out in abundance (once saw five with cars pulled over at once), but I didn't see a single police car in any of my travels investigating this, and again, the roads were quite busy, so it seemed like a congested time to get speeders.

I am most curious about the ticketing aspect if it was in fact an police chopper, primarily because I did not see one squad car anywhere. And no one was pulled over or in the process of being pulled over at all. And generally, this did not seem like a stretch of road conducive to getting speeders via aircraft.

Initially I had the egotistical notion that I was spotted at the precise time I was speeding (this is on the second trip), solely because I saw the chopper, when in fact I was only speeding for about 1/4 mile before yielding to a faster car behind me. I am not sure what the chances are of being picked out of a "herd" in this case, but realistically I probably don't have much to worry about. Though I am curious if a ticket might be in the mail, as that is a practice I am not familiar with. I've received speeding citations before, but every time I've been pulled over and issued it physically; never receiving a ticket via the mail, or other means.

I did not ever suspect it could be a news chopper, yet when I made the return trip to check it out, I did see what I initially thought was a rather large radar gun on the side of the chopper, when in reality it very well may have been a camera.

In reality, I am not as concerned about a ticket as I am curious about the whole procedure. When I speed, I fully understand that there are consequences, specifically paying a fine and receiving points. This is also why I generally don't challenge tickets in court, as I don't feel I have ever been innocent of a speeding violation when I was cited for one.

I have this feeling that I would like to call someone locally and ask about this, if only to qwell my curiosity. I suppose I can't call the police and ask if they had a chopper up today getting speeders, but there is this lingering feeling of uncertainty that makes me wonder what exactly I had seen, as I've never seen a chopper so close while driving before.

One last question regarding the ticket being mailed. Would that be a feasable way of ticketing drivers? In the replies here there seems to be a trend of the pilot and officer on the ground working together, and if tickets were mailed solely on the basis of a pilot writing down a plate number, would that be a strong enough method to warrant practice by law enforcement? I know there are those that challenge tickets in court, and on that basis, it seems to me that having a man in the sky being the sole factor in determining a speeder at a single point in time, seems like it might not hold up too well. Again, I've never taken a ticket to court, so I am not familiar with the process, but I'd be interested in hearing thoughts regarding this as well.

Overall, very informative thread so far. I've always thought that the signs on the road indicating aerial monitoring were put in place more as a scare tactic than anything, but it's both refreshing and enlightening to find this is not necessarily the case. As a brief aside, in this case there was no "Aerial monitoring" sign for miles, if there is one at all. Is such a sign required to pull people over? I would imagine not, as I don't see why police officers would have to announce the methods by which they are getting speeders, unless that too comes back to the appeal process in court?

__________________
Desperation is no excuse for lowering one's standards.

cadre

I'm under the impression that there are still only a small number of states where it is legal to send traffic citations in the mail. My state being one of them. However, I have never heard of citations being given just from an aircraft but rather what Cynthetiq's link describes. I've also never heard of citations being mailed from anything other than the photo radars that are either built into roads or on vans.

__________________
My life is one of those 'you had to be there' jokes.