James Kim's body found. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

-Ever- · 12-07-2006, 01:33 PM

I was surprised to not find any posts regarding this family. Apologies if I happened to miss one.

Anyhow, the story says it all and it's pretty heartbreaking. Anyone on the West coast knows Highway 5. It's tragic they got stranded so close to it from a simple incorrect driving decision.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16089354/
and
http://www.cnet.com (where he worked)

Ace_O_Spades · 12-07-2006, 01:57 PM

Made even more tragic by the fact that if he had stayed put he would be alive.

Willravel · 12-07-2006, 02:01 PM

How terribly tragic. My thoughts are with the family and friends.

cj2112 · 12-07-2006, 02:34 PM

This ordeal occured within a few miles of my home, and I have friends that were involved w/ the search effort. The story is pretty sad, the press release today says that the cause of death has been confirmed as hypothermia and exposure. It was difficult to see the impact that the loss had on those involved in the search. My heart goes out to the family, and those that were close to them.

I want say thank you to all those involved in the search and rescue efforts, the amount of time and dedication that those people put in was simply amazing.

Moskie · 12-07-2006, 02:48 PM

I thought this link on Digg was very depressing:

http://www.layoutscene.com/james-kim-path

It shows the path they believe he took. If only he went a different direction to start, or was able to travel a few more hours, he could have made it to that lodge...

jorgelito · 12-07-2006, 03:11 PM

You know, I really don't know why but there was something compelling and particularly wrenching about this story that was so sad. It seems like a lot of people feel that way too. Even the sheriff got all emotional about it. I normally don't get affected by these types of things but this one got to me.

Anyways, rest in peace.

cj2112 · 12-07-2006, 03:21 PM

This was one that Brian Anderson (our county's Undersheriff) wanted really bad, he was definitely emotionally involved in this effort, and to say the least he was crushed by Mr. Kims passing. The mood in here in town has been pretty somber.

feelgood · 12-07-2006, 03:27 PM

Did anybody explain why his pants and clothes were taken off?? Seems kind of strange thing to do in the middle of the winter.

jorgelito · 12-07-2006, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feelgood

Did anybody explain why his pants and clothes were taken off?? Seems kind of strange thing to do in the middle of the winter.

It's been speculated that either:

1. He was leaving a trail for rescuers to follow

or

2. He was suffering from hypothermia and therefore felt "hot", thus stripping off his clothes.

cj2112 · 12-07-2006, 03:43 PM

The way I understand it is that he brought extra clothing with him when he left the vehicle, it wasn't him just stripping while walking through waist deep snow.

ratbastid · 12-07-2006, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj2112

The way I understand it is that he brought extra clothing with him when he left the vehicle, it wasn't him just stripping while walking through waist deep snow.

Although that's quite common in hypothermia cases. "Paradoxical stripping", they call it.

I'm pretty sad about this. I always really admired James' work, both at C|NET and at TechTV before that. He struck a good balance between ubergeekdom and super-nice approachable, good-guyness.

ktspktsp · 12-07-2006, 06:32 PM

That's very sad indeed.. I didn't realize he was so close to the bigger road..

abaya · 12-07-2006, 06:37 PM

I still don't understand why he even left the road... unless it was when he was already hypothermic and therefore not making good judgements. And how they got so far off course, in the first place. So many things went wrong.

So sad. If I were the wife, I don't know how I'd ever be able to move on... absolutely heartbreaking.

longbough · 12-07-2006, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace_O_Spades

Made even more tragic by the fact that if he had stayed put he would be alive.

What I heard (and I'm not sure if it's true) is that the family was found when the rescuers tracked HIS footprints backwards to them in the snow. So maybe he actually saved his family through his death.

Now, why someone would track backwards instead of forwards is beyond me ... unless they lost his trail and decided to backtrack.

cj2112 · 12-07-2006, 08:33 PM

It is believed that he left the road to head towards the creek, hoping that the creek would lead him to a house.

They did not track his footprints backwards, a search helicopter spottes ha female waving an umbrella, and a car, which turned out to be his wife and their vehicle. It was after rescuing his wife and children that they learned that he had set out on foot, and located his footprints.

abaya · 12-07-2006, 08:56 PM

Man, I keep thinking about this story. Goddamn it, I hate hearing about fathers (or anyone) dying in such a preventable way. It makes me so sad. I suppose it's because my own father died tragically a month before I was born, and I have lived through the aftermath of that tragedy for 27 years... it still brings many people in his family to tears, after all this time. It really scars a family, almost irreperably.

It is just so sad to lose anyone like this... and yet, so random, and therefore inexplicable. Maybe that is the hardest truth; that in the end, it was an accident, and that there was no real meaning to be found.

The only strange consolation I can imagine, is that at least they found his body. For my mother, they never found my father's body (lost at sea)... and it has always been a torment for her and his family, psychologically.

Goddamn it all.

analog · 12-07-2006, 11:27 PM

I just don't understand what he thought he'd accomplish by setting out on foot on a long, desolate highway. It's not like they'd just passed something he knew he could walk to (or even try to walk to) or knew something was coming up... he just left the car which insulated them from the cold better than being outside would- at least from the wind, which is one of the worse parts of the cold.

It's sad he died, yes, but I just wonder what he thought he would accomplish by leaving his wife and child, less the body heat of one extra person. Shoulda stayed in there and had some sex... generate some heat.

And I mean that seriously.

jorgelito · 12-08-2006, 12:12 AM

Wow, blame the victim? The guy went to seek help, I don't think one can denigrate someone for doing so. That's what he thought he'd accomplish, seeking help to rescue him and his family. It's not hard to understand.

analog · 12-08-2006, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgelito

Wow, blame the victim? The guy went to seek help, I don't think one can denigrate someone for doing so. That's what he thought he'd accomplish, seeking help to rescue him and his family. It's not hard to understand.

Blame and denigrate him? I did no such thing. I said I don't understand why a person would do that. That's me saying I don't understand why a person would do that, not "he's a dumbass and deserved to die" like you make it sound that I said.

I also listed reasons why I don't understand it- and they're not unusual reasons. Something like not having seen or known of anything for any distance in either direction DOES, in fact, make it difficult to understand why he'd make the choice to blindly advance into the cold wearing normal street clothes- writing that choice off as "seeking help to save his family" doesn't cut it, nor does it make it "not hard to understand". People do lots of what we consider to be stupid things (again, I'm not saying what he did was stupid, I just don't agree with the motivation behind it) in the name of "protecting loved ones", and this does not give a person immunity from future scrutiny of their actions.

I'm glad he felt compelled to save his family, and I do find it heroic that he got so far and pushed so hard to do it- but I don't agree that the way he chose to save his family was to leave the car when he had no knowledge of anything being within any distance, and that they would lose his body heat.

ShaniFaye · 12-08-2006, 04:39 AM

He'd stayed in that car for NINE days before he decided to try to go find help for his family....how much longer do you suggest he should have stayed there?

Toaster126 · 12-08-2006, 05:25 AM

At some point you have to figure that help isn't going to find you unless you are proactive. I think that point is before nine days, honestly.

ratbastid · 12-08-2006, 05:43 AM

I just saw some 3d topo maps of the area. It looks like if the car had made it another few hundred feet, he'd have been looking across a canyon at a lodge that was about 1.5 miles away, and known to walk down the road the direction he'd been driving, rather than trying to backtrack. The lodge was closed for the winter, but it was checked by rescue crews several times, and they likely would have all survived if they'd made it there.

FYI, it appears that James was following an old survival tip: find a stream and follow it downhill to civilization. Unfortunately in this case it wouldn't have worked. That tip is no longer really advised, because people who follow streams often end up having to get IN them at some point, and are more likely to succumb to hypothermia.

DaElf · 12-08-2006, 06:43 AM

Man this guy is straight out of the good era of techtv. He used to describe things so good on fresh gear. He would come onto the screen savers a lot too and describe stuff and tell all the terrible things he would do to the new technology in the labs. Such a tragedy really. I heard that 'a guy' died a few hours from my hours but to find out that it's this guy just makes me feel wierd and I guess sad.

cj2112 · 12-08-2006, 07:15 AM

He had been in his car 9 days waiting to be rescued, they had used all of their fuel, were out of food, and were burning their tires for heat. I would imagine that he was thinking something along the lines of "if I don't go find help, my family is going to die."

jorgelito · 12-08-2006, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by analog

Blame and denigrate him? I did no such thing. I said I don't understand why a person would do that. That's me saying I don't understand why a person would do that, not "he's a dumbass and deserved to die" like you make it sound that I said.

I also listed reasons why I don't understand it- and they're not unusual reasons. Something like not having seen or known of anything for any distance in either direction DOES, in fact, make it difficult to understand why he'd make the choice to blindly advance into the cold wearing normal street clothes- writing that choice off as "seeking help to save his family" doesn't cut it, nor does it make it "not hard to understand". People do lots of what we consider to be stupid things (again, I'm not saying what he did was stupid, I just don't agree with the motivation behind it) in the name of "protecting loved ones", and this does not give a person immunity from future scrutiny of their actions.

I'm glad he felt compelled to save his family, and I do find it heroic that he got so far and pushed so hard to do it- but I don't agree that the way he chose to save his family was to leave the car when he had no knowledge of anything being within any distance, and that they would lose his body heat.

Analog, thanks for your elaboration, I appreciate it (I always do) but I disagree with you about the motivation. I think trying to seek help to save his family is very good motivation. As others have noted, it seems like they exhausted a lot of options already: ran out of food, heat, fuel etc and had waited already for 7-9 days. I think it's perfectly understandable why he did what he did.

He also went out with many layers (sweater, sweatshirt and two pairs of pants plus 2 lighters to presumably make a fire - something like that, the details are in the various articles).

I think that is what makes this case especially tragic; that they didn't necessarily do anything rash or stupid and even did some smart survival stuff but he still ended up dying. And that he was so close to help.

DDDDave · 12-08-2006, 01:37 PM

This is a sad story. I feel bad for everyone, family, friends, rescuers.

It will be interesting to hear the wife's full story. I know I have several questions...

Did he make several attempts to find a way out... Each day for an hour..out and back...one day north, next day south, etc.

Did he find a clearing and build a signal of some sort....

Climb a tree...

Did they have any winter type preparedness....

Did he have any 'outdoor' experience at all? If not, it can be hard to think of what are some very obvious (in hindsight) strategies.

And my last question, not for the wife, but with all his 'gadgetness', why didn't he have a handheld or car GPS ?????

Demeter · 12-08-2006, 05:09 PM

what if...what if...what if....
doesn't accomplish or change anything.

After 9 days in the elements, scared for his family, for himself, cold, hungry, confused... I don't think anyone can think his actions were 'wrong'.
By that point in time, it's unlikely any person would be capable of a fully rational decision.

This story tears my heart out....

splck · 12-08-2006, 05:56 PM

I love critics.

If he sat there and all four died, people would be saying "why didn't he go looking for help".

cj2112 · 12-08-2006, 07:09 PM

The story gets worse....it appears that the road they turned off onto, the decision that ultimately sealed his fate, had been gated and locked by BLM, and vandals apparently cut the lock and opened the gate.

analog · 12-08-2006, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splck

If he sat there and all four died, people would be saying "why didn't he go looking for help".

Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think anyone here is questioning anything simply because they want to be difficult.

And I have to say, I had not previously read that they were out of food and it'd been 9 days... while I maintain that he may have been better off staying, I will admit I understand and sympathize with his decision, based on now learning this info. So, yes, I can see why he did that, then. Pretty much sheer desperation at that point.

Ace_O_Spades · 12-09-2006, 12:22 AM

I'll be honest, I would have left before nine days... It's just a brutal story that has no happy ending.

No matter how many "what if's" the guy is still dead, and he leaves behind a wife and baby...

bleh... just bad shit.

jorgelito · 12-11-2006, 04:35 PM

Well, apparently a bunch of survival experts have now weighed in on this and have concurred that they would have done the same thing James did. That adds another perspective to the stay or seek help debate.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WEATHER/12/0...val/index.html

Quote:

Survival experts assess father's heart-wrenching choice

By Thom Patterson
CNN

(CNN) -- Survival experts struggled Friday to come to terms with James Kim's heart-wrenching decision to leave his snowbound family to seek help in the bitter cold of the Oregon wilderness.

After the Kims watched their two young daughters go for seven days without proper food or shelter, the father's deadly decision to venture out must have been harrowing, said Randy Servis, president of the National Association for Search and Rescue.

If James Kim had remained in his family's car, he almost certainly would have survived to raise his daughters and continue his high-profile career as an editor at CNET.

"If I'd been up there seven days, I had a seven-month-old child, I probably would have made that decision -- trying to go get help," Servis said. "There comes a point where you ask: how long do you stay with the vehicle? If you've told somebody where you're going to be, then I would have stayed with the vehicle." (Watch why you should stay put and how to make a "desperation trench"Video)

Searchers found James Kim's body Wednesday in a ravine just a mile from food and shelter, police said. An autopsy determined hypothermia as the cause of death. (Full story)

Wilderness survival expert Cody Lundin said James Kim chose to break the cardinal rule in the search-and-rescue community: stay put.

"Mr. Kim made a gamble and he lost, and it's an unfortunate situation but that's the way it is," said Lundin, a 20-year instructor of survival skills. "When you put human nature together with Mother Nature, anything goes."

Lundin said he very well could have made the same decision under similar circumstances.

"If I thought I could make it back to where there was people, I might have done that," he said. "Because if no one was looking for them, they could have been there for weeks or months and they could have died in that car." (Watch the treacherous routeVideo)
Leave a 'game plan'

Lundin said one of the most important rules he teaches students is to always give someone their itinerary information, including departure and arrival details. If travelers go missing, the person with the itinerary should alert authorities, Lundin said.

"Leave a game plan so if you screw up then someone's going to be looking for you and they have to know where to look," said Lundin. "If you do get lost, adequate clothing and water can save your life."

The Kims became stuck in snow November 25 while traveling home to San Francisco after a Thanksgiving trip to Portland. They attempted to take a shortcut over roads that can be impassable in winter. Temperatures at night hovered near or below freezing. (Watch Kim's heartbreaking journeyVideo)

The parents ate berries, authorities have said, while feeding the children baby food and crackers. When their meager food supply ran low, Kati Kim -- who was nursing the younger child -- breast-fed both children. After several days James Kim left his family to seek help, promising to return if he did not find anyone. Kim's body was found Wednesday about a mile from the lodge, where he could have found shelter, warmth and enough food for months, authorities told The Associated Press.

Kati Kim and the couple's daughters were found Monday when searchers saw her waving an umbrella. She had just set out on foot when they were found, authorities said. The three spent a night in the hospital and were released Tuesday.
Survival ABCs

Experts say the three rules for survival if you plan to be traveling in a wilderness area are as easy to remember as ABC:

* A. Always tell someone where you're going, said Ken Brink of the Colorado State Parks Department. "If you tell people where you're going, and when you get in trouble you stay put, there's a very high possibility that we can find you within 24 hours. Not always, but usually."

* B. Be prepared -- Think of the worst possible scenario and prepare for it.

* C. Carry a survival kit with extra clothing, non-perishable food, and drinking water. Also, when assembling the kit, be aware of three key necessities: shelter, fire and signaling. (Extreme weather survival tips)

Servis said survivors should be prepared to burn tires to create life-saving heat and to signal searchers, as the Kims did.

"Let the air out of your tires and burn the spare tire first," Servis said. "A tire will burn from 12 to 24 hours and put out heat and black smoke. Use a little gasoline from your car and a road flare or battery jump cable to ignite the tire."

ktspktsp · 12-11-2006, 07:33 PM

They're now saying he walked 16 miles, not 10. Wow..

http://archives.seattletimes.nwsourc...&date=20061209

After 9 days, I can only imagine I'd be trying to do the same thing.

biznatch · 12-12-2006, 01:41 AM

RIP James. He did great reviews, and seemed like a kind person in general.
I think that was very brave of him, to risk his life for his wife and daughters, when he didn't know that he'd come out of it alive.
These sad news make me want to pay much closer attention to the survival shows on the Discovery Channel, and to be as ready as I can for any situation.

abaya · 12-12-2006, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ktspktsp

After 9 days, I can only imagine I'd be trying to do the same thing.

Yeah, but hon... in that case, as with every time we take a trip anywhere longer than an hour, you'd have a handful Google maps of every major and minor route through the area, and perhaps would not have gotten stuck in the first place. At least, I'd like to think so.

I guess, for me, I understand how people get lost and die on backcountry trails, hiking trips, that kind of thing. It just boggles my mind that someone could get so lost on a road, with a car, unless somehow their car got wrecked in a ditch, and was thus useless for helping them turn back down the way they came? I guess I don't know the details of that.

And yeah, for a gadget and technology man, it IS amazing (and sad) that Mr. Kim did not have any kind of GPS or map technology, I guess. I am still waiting to hear more from the wife, about how exactly they turned onto this road and decided to keep driving when it was obviously snowed in, unplowed, and probably a bad idea. Why not go back to I-5 (a major artery) and find a hotel for the night? So many questions.

jorgelito · 12-12-2006, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaya

Yeah, but hon... in that case, as with every time we take a trip anywhere longer than an hour, you'd have a handful Google maps of every major and minor route through the area, and perhaps would not have gotten stuck in the first place. At least, I'd like to think so.

I guess, for me, I understand how people get lost and die on backcountry trails, hiking trips, that kind of thing. It just boggles my mind that someone could get so lost on a road, with a car, unless somehow their car got wrecked in a ditch, and was thus useless for helping them turn back down the way they came? I guess I don't know the details of that.

And yeah, for a gadget and technology man, it IS amazing (and sad) that Mr. Kim did not have any kind of GPS or map technology, I guess. I am still waiting to hear more from the wife, about how exactly they turned onto this road and decided to keep driving when it was obviously snowed in, unplowed, and probably a bad idea. Why not go back to I-5 (a major artery) and find a hotel for the night? So many questions.

They already explained this. They pulled on to a road that was supposed to be closed but vandals had opened it again. We don't know that is was "obviously a bad idea to drive down it".

I guess we will have to wait and see.

DDDDave · 12-12-2006, 01:41 PM

This whole story just keeps turning in my brain.

I finally went to the Portland Oregonian website and read all the stories and it still boggles my mind.

I saw a little news story on 'Inside Edition' or something where they retraced their exact route. After they left the Denny's at 9:30 pm they passed at least (2) 4'x8' signs with big red warnings 'Road closed in winter. Roads are unplowed.' How can a grown man with a wife and 2 little girls proceed down a basically impassable road at night and drive for 4 hours. (They 'stopped for the night' at 2am) ??? The wife said they had to stop several times to 'remove rocks from the road' so they could get past. I know my wife would have been like 'WTF are you doing??? Turn around'. I read that when he tried to back up he had to open the door because the snow was so deep on the windows. When the door was open the snow came in so they decided to just continue on. Hello, where is your head man? The road that they eventually turned down was supposed to have a gate but didn't. But then they still travelled almost 15 miles. 15 miles on an unpaved unplowed road in the middle of the night in a snowstorm. Come on man, look in the back seat. I don't want to crucify the guy because I'm sure he thought he was doing the right thing, but a Volvo station wagon is not a snowplow. One of the locals said he only would drive down that road in the middle of the summer and even then it was difficult driving.

I try to imagine the desperation he felt after 5, 6, then 7 days with no food. Evidently they built a fire everyday, but the wood was difficult to gather and was frozen. It seems that once stuck, he did an admirable job keeping his family alive and together. But why were you there in the first place. It is not as if your plane crashed or your boat sank and you were marooned through no fault of your own. Can you imagine the tremendous guilt he felt for their predicament?

Imagine the wife. They are stranded in the car for 7 days. Say it again, 7 days. (Most of us cannot go 7 hours.) Little kids, no food, freezing temps, no searchers, no nothing. Finally, she kisses her (insert descriptive adjective here) husband goodbye at 8am as he heads off for help. He says 'I will return by 1pm.' 2 days, yes 2 more days, later he has not returned. She, and virtually every female I know would be panicked, frantic, hysterical, (take your pick). She finally, in what was pure desperation, takes the two girls and heads off into the snow. Then, by what was surely the grace of God, a helicopter appears and spots them. They trudge back to the car where the helicopter can land and are rescued.

The rescuers at that point follow James' tracks in the snow and find him 15 miles, 15 miles!, from the car. When they found his body it was soft and limp. Rigormortis sets in after death and then after about 48 hours goes away. The ME said it appeared he had been dead for two days. IOW, he died the same day he set out for help. So, so, sad. Imagine his thoughts. His mind had to be so clouded by hypothermia he couldn't even think straight.

When you are in pilot training they teach you that it is not usually one big mistake that gets you in trouble, but a series of what don't seem like bad decisions at the time, that do you in. There was only one mistake here, not turning around immediately after realizing that they had missed their turn.

Ego, overconfidence, or the opposite-lack of respect for a dangerous situation. I guess we'll really never know.

abaya · 12-12-2006, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgelito

They pulled on to a road that was supposed to be closed but vandals had opened it again. We don't know that is was "obviously a bad idea to drive down it".

Vandals or not, have you seen an unplowed mountain road in the middle of winter? It's clearly NOT meant for driving. All I am saying is that to me, if I had turned off of the largest interstate on the west coast and found myself driving up an unplowed road that was clearly unused and full of snow, I'd be thinking, "Damn, this is a bad idea... I'm turning around."

DDDDave sums it up here, actually... this is exactly what I was thinking when I read the story. I know I-5. I've seen those remote mountain roads. And that's why I really don't understand what he was thinking. Did his wife object, I wonder? Was he unfamiliar with the Oregon mountains? I just don't get it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDDDave

After they left the Denny's at 9:30 pm they passed at least (2) 4'x8' signs with big red warnings 'Road closed in winter. Roads are unplowed.' How can a grown man with a wife and 2 little girls proceed down a basically impassable road at night and drive for 4 hours. (They 'stopped for the night' at 2am) ??? The wife said they had to stop several times to 'remove rocks from the road' so they could get past. I know my wife would have been like 'WTF are you doing??? Turn around'. I read that when he tried to back up he had to open the door because the snow was so deep on the windows. When the door was open the snow came in so they decided to just continue on. Hello, where is your head man? The road that they eventually turned down was supposed to have a gate but didn't. But then they still travelled almost 15 miles. 15 miles on an unpaved unplowed road in the middle of the night in a snowstorm.

12-07-2006, 01:33 PM	#1 (permalink)
-Ever- Junkie Location: San Francisco	James Kim's body found. I was surprised to not find any posts regarding this family. Apologies if I happened to miss one. Anyhow, the story says it all and it's pretty heartbreaking. Anyone on the West coast knows Highway 5. It's tragic they got stranded so close to it from a simple incorrect driving decision. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16089354/ and http://www.cnet.com (where he worked) __________________ Embracing the goddess energy within yourselves will bring all of you to a new understanding and valuing of life. A vision that inspires you to live and love on planet Earth. Like a priceless jewel buried in dark layers of soil and stone, Earth radiates her brilliant beauty into the caverns of space and time. Perhaps you are aware of those who watch over your home And experience of this place to visit and play with reality. You are becoming aware of yourself as a gamemaster... --Acknowledge your weaknesses--

12-07-2006, 01:57 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ace_O_Spades The Death Card Location: EH!?!?	Made even more tragic by the fact that if he had stayed put he would be alive. __________________ Feh.

12-07-2006, 02:48 PM	#5 (permalink)
Moskie Pure Chewing Satisfaction Location: can i use bbcode [i]here[/i]?	I thought this link on Digg was very depressing: http://www.layoutscene.com/james-kim-path It shows the path they believe he took. If only he went a different direction to start, or was able to travel a few more hours, he could have made it to that lodge... __________________ Greetings and salutations.

12-07-2006, 03:27 PM	#8 (permalink)
feelgood Free Mars! Location: I dunno, there's white people around me saying "eh" all the time	Did anybody explain why his pants and clothes were taken off?? Seems kind of strange thing to do in the middle of the winter. __________________ Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

12-07-2006, 06:37 PM	#13 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	I still don't understand why he even left the road... unless it was when he was already hypothermic and therefore not making good judgements. And how they got so far off course, in the first place. So many things went wrong. So sad. If I were the wife, I don't know how I'd ever be able to move on... absolutely heartbreaking. __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran

12-07-2006, 02:01 PM	#3 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	How terribly tragic. My thoughts are with the family and friends.

12-07-2006, 02:34 PM	#4 (permalink)
cj2112 Unbelievable Location: Grants Pass OR	This ordeal occured within a few miles of my home, and I have friends that were involved w/ the search effort. The story is pretty sad, the press release today says that the cause of death has been confirmed as hypothermia and exposure. It was difficult to see the impact that the loss had on those involved in the search. My heart goes out to the family, and those that were close to them. I want say thank you to all those involved in the search and rescue efforts, the amount of time and dedication that those people put in was simply amazing.

12-07-2006, 03:11 PM	#6 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	You know, I really don't know why but there was something compelling and particularly wrenching about this story that was so sad. It seems like a lot of people feel that way too. Even the sheriff got all emotional about it. I normally don't get affected by these types of things but this one got to me. Anyways, rest in peace.

12-07-2006, 03:21 PM	#7 (permalink)
cj2112 Unbelievable Location: Grants Pass OR	This was one that Brian Anderson (our county's Undersheriff) wanted really bad, he was definitely emotionally involved in this effort, and to say the least he was crushed by Mr. Kims passing. The mood in here in town has been pretty somber.

12-07-2006, 03:43 PM	#10 (permalink)
cj2112 Unbelievable Location: Grants Pass OR	The way I understand it is that he brought extra clothing with him when he left the vehicle, it wasn't him just stripping while walking through waist deep snow.

12-07-2006, 06:32 PM	#12 (permalink)
ktspktsp Addict Location: Reykjavik, Iceland	That's very sad indeed.. I didn't realize he was so close to the bigger road..

12-07-2006, 08:33 PM	#15 (permalink)
cj2112 Unbelievable Location: Grants Pass OR	It is believed that he left the road to head towards the creek, hoping that the creek would lead him to a house. They did not track his footprints backwards, a search helicopter spottes ha female waving an umbrella, and a car, which turned out to be his wife and their vehicle. It was after rescuing his wife and children that they learned that he had set out on foot, and located his footprints.

12-07-2006, 08:56 PM	#16 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	Man, I keep thinking about this story. Goddamn it, I hate hearing about fathers (or anyone) dying in such a preventable way. It makes me so sad. I suppose it's because my own father died tragically a month before I was born, and I have lived through the aftermath of that tragedy for 27 years... it still brings many people in his family to tears, after all this time. It really scars a family, almost irreperably. It is just so sad to lose anyone like this... and yet, so random, and therefore inexplicable. Maybe that is the hardest truth; that in the end, it was an accident, and that there was no real meaning to be found. The only strange consolation I can imagine, is that at least they found his body. For my mother, they never found my father's body (lost at sea)... and it has always been a torment for her and his family, psychologically. Goddamn it all. __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran

12-07-2006, 11:27 PM	#17 (permalink)
analog Banned	I just don't understand what he thought he'd accomplish by setting out on foot on a long, desolate highway. It's not like they'd just passed something he knew he could walk to (or even try to walk to) or knew something was coming up... he just left the car which insulated them from the cold better than being outside would- at least from the wind, which is one of the worse parts of the cold. It's sad he died, yes, but I just wonder what he thought he would accomplish by leaving his wife and child, less the body heat of one extra person. Shoulda stayed in there and had some sex... generate some heat. And I mean that seriously.

12-08-2006, 12:12 AM	#18 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	Wow, blame the victim? The guy went to seek help, I don't think one can denigrate someone for doing so. That's what he thought he'd accomplish, seeking help to rescue him and his family. It's not hard to understand.

12-08-2006, 04:39 AM	#20 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	He'd stayed in that car for NINE days before he decided to try to go find help for his family....how much longer do you suggest he should have stayed there? __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

12-08-2006, 05:25 AM	#21 (permalink)
Toaster126 Extreme moderation Location: Kansas City, yo.	At some point you have to figure that help isn't going to find you unless you are proactive. I think that point is before nine days, honestly. __________________ "The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand) "The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

12-08-2006, 05:43 AM	#22 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	I just saw some 3d topo maps of the area. It looks like if the car had made it another few hundred feet, he'd have been looking across a canyon at a lodge that was about 1.5 miles away, and known to walk down the road the direction he'd been driving, rather than trying to backtrack. The lodge was closed for the winter, but it was checked by rescue crews several times, and they likely would have all survived if they'd made it there. FYI, it appears that James was following an old survival tip: find a stream and follow it downhill to civilization. Unfortunately in this case it wouldn't have worked. That tip is no longer really advised, because people who follow streams often end up having to get IN them at some point, and are more likely to succumb to hypothermia.

12-08-2006, 06:43 AM	#23 (permalink)
DaElf Tilted Location: Washington	Man this guy is straight out of the good era of techtv. He used to describe things so good on fresh gear. He would come onto the screen savers a lot too and describe stuff and tell all the terrible things he would do to the new technology in the labs. Such a tragedy really. I heard that 'a guy' died a few hours from my hours but to find out that it's this guy just makes me feel wierd and I guess sad. __________________ I'm sitting at my desk right now waiting for you to reply to the above message.

12-08-2006, 07:15 AM	#24 (permalink)
cj2112 Unbelievable Location: Grants Pass OR	He had been in his car 9 days waiting to be rescued, they had used all of their fuel, were out of food, and were burning their tires for heat. I would imagine that he was thinking something along the lines of "if I don't go find help, my family is going to die."

12-08-2006, 01:37 PM	#26 (permalink)
DDDDave Addict Location: Sarasota	This is a sad story. I feel bad for everyone, family, friends, rescuers. It will be interesting to hear the wife's full story. I know I have several questions... Did he make several attempts to find a way out... Each day for an hour..out and back...one day north, next day south, etc. Did he find a clearing and build a signal of some sort.... Climb a tree... Did they have any winter type preparedness.... Did he have any 'outdoor' experience at all? If not, it can be hard to think of what are some very obvious (in hindsight) strategies. And my last question, not for the wife, but with all his 'gadgetness', why didn't he have a handheld or car GPS ????? __________________ I am just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe... "Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you have imagined." - Thoreau "Nothing great was ever accomplished without enthusiasm" - Emerson

12-08-2006, 05:09 PM	#27 (permalink)
Demeter Psycho	what if...what if...what if.... doesn't accomplish or change anything. After 9 days in the elements, scared for his family, for himself, cold, hungry, confused... I don't think anyone can think his actions were 'wrong'. By that point in time, it's unlikely any person would be capable of a fully rational decision. This story tears my heart out.... __________________ I am not bound to please thee with my answers. William Shakespeare

12-08-2006, 05:56 PM	#28 (permalink)
splck it's jam Location: Lowerainland BC	I love critics. If he sat there and all four died, people would be saying "why didn't he go looking for help". __________________ nice line eh?

12-08-2006, 07:09 PM	#29 (permalink)
cj2112 Unbelievable Location: Grants Pass OR	The story gets worse....it appears that the road they turned off onto, the decision that ultimately sealed his fate, had been gated and locked by BLM, and vandals apparently cut the lock and opened the gate.

12-09-2006, 12:22 AM	#31 (permalink)
Ace_O_Spades The Death Card Location: EH!?!?	I'll be honest, I would have left before nine days... It's just a brutal story that has no happy ending. No matter how many "what if's" the guy is still dead, and he leaves behind a wife and baby... bleh... just bad shit. __________________ Feh.

12-11-2006, 07:33 PM	#33 (permalink)
ktspktsp Addict Location: Reykjavik, Iceland	They're now saying he walked 16 miles, not 10. Wow.. http://archives.seattletimes.nwsourc...&date=20061209 After 9 days, I can only imagine I'd be trying to do the same thing.

12-12-2006, 01:41 AM	#34 (permalink)
biznatch Junkie Location: France	RIP James. He did great reviews, and seemed like a kind person in general. I think that was very brave of him, to risk his life for his wife and daughters, when he didn't know that he'd come out of it alive. These sad news make me want to pay much closer attention to the survival shows on the Discovery Channel, and to be as ready as I can for any situation.

12-12-2006, 01:41 PM	#37 (permalink)
DDDDave Addict Location: Sarasota	This whole story just keeps turning in my brain. I finally went to the Portland Oregonian website and read all the stories and it still boggles my mind. I saw a little news story on 'Inside Edition' or something where they retraced their exact route. After they left the Denny's at 9:30 pm they passed at least (2) 4'x8' signs with big red warnings 'Road closed in winter. Roads are unplowed.' How can a grown man with a wife and 2 little girls proceed down a basically impassable road at night and drive for 4 hours. (They 'stopped for the night' at 2am) ??? The wife said they had to stop several times to 'remove rocks from the road' so they could get past. I know my wife would have been like 'WTF are you doing??? Turn around'. I read that when he tried to back up he had to open the door because the snow was so deep on the windows. When the door was open the snow came in so they decided to just continue on. Hello, where is your head man? The road that they eventually turned down was supposed to have a gate but didn't. But then they still travelled almost 15 miles. 15 miles on an unpaved unplowed road in the middle of the night in a snowstorm. Come on man, look in the back seat. I don't want to crucify the guy because I'm sure he thought he was doing the right thing, but a Volvo station wagon is not a snowplow. One of the locals said he only would drive down that road in the middle of the summer and even then it was difficult driving. I try to imagine the desperation he felt after 5, 6, then 7 days with no food. Evidently they built a fire everyday, but the wood was difficult to gather and was frozen. It seems that once stuck, he did an admirable job keeping his family alive and together. But why were you there in the first place. It is not as if your plane crashed or your boat sank and you were marooned through no fault of your own. Can you imagine the tremendous guilt he felt for their predicament? Imagine the wife. They are stranded in the car for 7 days. Say it again, 7 days. (Most of us cannot go 7 hours.) Little kids, no food, freezing temps, no searchers, no nothing. Finally, she kisses her (insert descriptive adjective here) husband goodbye at 8am as he heads off for help. He says 'I will return by 1pm.' 2 days, yes 2 more days, later he has not returned. She, and virtually every female I know would be panicked, frantic, hysterical, (take your pick). She finally, in what was pure desperation, takes the two girls and heads off into the snow. Then, by what was surely the grace of God, a helicopter appears and spots them. They trudge back to the car where the helicopter can land and are rescued. The rescuers at that point follow James' tracks in the snow and find him 15 miles, 15 miles!, from the car. When they found his body it was soft and limp. Rigormortis sets in after death and then after about 48 hours goes away. The ME said it appeared he had been dead for two days. IOW, he died the same day he set out for help. So, so, sad. Imagine his thoughts. His mind had to be so clouded by hypothermia he couldn't even think straight. When you are in pilot training they teach you that it is not usually one big mistake that gets you in trouble, but a series of what don't seem like bad decisions at the time, that do you in. There was only one mistake here, not turning around immediately after realizing that they had missed their turn. Ego, overconfidence, or the opposite-lack of respect for a dangerous situation. I guess we'll really never know. __________________ I am just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe... "Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you have imagined." - Thoreau "Nothing great was ever accomplished without enthusiasm" - Emerson