Infinite_Loser

Basically, I have a twenty page paper on anti-dumping due Tuesday for my "International Trade and Politics" class. I've already analyzed my case study, the arguments from both sides and the effects on the economy and domestic producers. The problem is that I've already finished the paper and wound up with a whopping 7.5 pages (8.5 if you count the works cited page), making me 12.5 pages short of the minimum.

So I figure that I can do either one of two things:

1.) I can turn it in as is and hope for the best or
2.) I can add a shit load of filler, but probably end up with a crappy grade because of it.

I'm really leaning towards option #1, but a few of my friends who have had this guy's class before said that he's really strict about the page minimum thing. So ummm... Yeah. Any suggestions?

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hiredgun

Being a few pages short is one thing, but being less than halfway there is bound to cause you some trouble. Are you sure you've done enough research and devoted enough space in your paper to discussing the issues in detail?

Also, is it 7.5 before or after double-spacing?

Dilbert1234567

Double spaced right? Is it to late to go and talk with your professor about it, most of my professors let me take my paper to them before the due date and get advice on it. My English professor would rather have 1 page of great work, than 20 of pure BS.

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lt1s10

I've had professors that went both ways. A few were sticklers for page count even when it meant I had 5 or 6 pages of utter crap. All it did was waste the time it took to read and write it. The giant load of crap in my paper didn't affect my grade either way.

Others were just fine with it being short if I discussed everything in enough detail to clearly communicate my ideas.

If you have enough time to talk to a TA or the professor about it before it's due then I would see what they think. If not I would probably add the filler because others have that impression of the professor.

Infinite_Loser

Yeah, it's double-spaced. I actually did a lot of research and put some time in effort into this paper (At it's 40% of the final grade) and all I could come up with was 7.5 pages. I really, really, really don't want to add a bunch of filler and BS because I'm afraid that if I do it'll affect my grade but, as I stated earlier, people have already told me that he's a nut-job for page count. Anyway, I contemplated asking him about it, but he already told us that he doesn't like to give any type of help on the papers before they're do and that it's up to us to decide whether or not we're happy with the final project.

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feelgood

Enlarge the font by .5 or maybe 1 if you're pushing it

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analog

Ask the professor. You'll likely be told "it's due tomorrow, you waited too long to ask" or "that's not even half, there's no way you've done enough research."

That is unless the 20-page minimum isn't that strict. Either way, i'd ask.

shakran

post the paper in here. Let's see where we can bulk it up

MageB420666

I'd always ask the professor, the worst he or she can do is laugh in your face and fail you right then and there.... Or they could give you advice on what to do.

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Tamerlain

You're always better off asking your professor, even if you think you know the answer. The people you've spoken to who have told you he's a real stickler for page count may have been in a different situation than you are.

At the very least he should be able to tell you where you're missing information. Profs usually have a good idea of how much information you should need to discuss the topics they assign, so even though you think you've got a lot of research and have a good paper, you may be missing something.

-Tamerlain

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JStrider

use the tahoma font... it takes up more space... and several times I've been told or had a note on a paper that says "good font" or something to that effect

I usually tend to get my point across pretty concisely, so my papers always come up a bit short and I have to add filler.

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Randerolf

Use Courier new if the font is not specified. Its a very a professional looking font. (It's what journalists use to make sure that they meet space requirements).
All letters in courier new take up the same amount of space.
All letters in courier new take up the same amount of space.

Redjake

COURIER NEW!!!!!!!!!

If you must add content, go back and read the paper, and add one sentence to every two sentences of topic/discussion. It's not that hard actually. I've had to do it before.

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Pip

Graphs! Lots of graphs!

And make slightly wider margins... >

Since the teacher is strict with page count you should aim for 20 pages. Those friends who have taken this class before, have they done similar papers and could you look at them to gauge the level of fluff/information needed?

Moskie

blockquotes!

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Kaliena

1.) Block quotes
2.) courier new, or arial
3.) go into the fonts and change the actual spacing between each letter. You can expand it by .2 I think at the most. After that, it's visably noticeable. It's an easy expander without messing with the main stuff (margin, etc)
4.) if you do mess with the margins, 2.1

Trust me, all the .whatevers do make a difference.

Let other people read your paper and if they go "explain this" or "what does that mean", add block quotes.

:-D

That should buff it without really fluffing it.

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Mister Coaster

I was always good at coming up with good-sounding filler BS. Add some "senarios" that would prove or disprove each opposing viewpoint. That could easily add 2-3 pages each.

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Intense1

Have you gone to websites of the various English speaking newspapers in Asia to get their slant on the dumping issue? I remember from my seven plus years in Japan all the articles about beef and oranges, not to mention the incredibly controversial rice issue. Try the Japan Times, Mainichi Daily News, and the Daily Yomiuri, circa 1986-1990.

You can bill it as the view from the other side......

There's also a possible slant about how the Japanese were always so highly anti-rice importers (don't want cheaper rice dumped) until their own rice crop failures necessitated imports from Thailand and Australia in the early/mid 1990's. Now there was a real conflict! I remember all the TV channels had live news reports following the import rice barges all the way into port, with constant commentary. The Thai embassy also printed up a recipe booklet to help the Japanese know how to cook Thai rice.....

You might also try the Bangkok Post or The Nation for articles about Thai rubber.

Sorry if you've already done this.

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Daniel_

A really nice legible professional lookign font that is present on most systems is Century Gothic.

It has a very rounded open look, and as such takes up a lot of space.

It sems odd to get an asignment with a fixed number of pages - I always used to get a fixed number of words.

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The_Jazz

Changing the font and margins to more than double what you've got is going to be pretty obvious. If you had a page to go, it might be worth it, but as it stands, I think that you'd cause more problems than not if you go this route.

I say talk to the professor and do more research. It seems to me that you've missed something major given the output that you've gotten. Maybe you should look at the arguements for dumping and get to the counterarguements that way.

Good luck whatever you end up deciding.

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jorgelito

Dude, professors can spot BS a mile away. Don't mess with the margins or font. The only time I ever did that was when I went over the limits.

The standard:

Times New Roman
12 pt. font
1" margins

soccerchamp76

I agree. Changing the margins, font, spacing is a middle-school trick.

If your teacher wanted a 20 page paper on a topic, and you only have 7.5 pages of topic, you obviously did not research deep enough. If you had 18 pages, it would be a different story.

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Toaster126

Lol... this is a reminder of why I hate school so much. He's done a good job, but the arbitrary limit has not been reached, so he has to do dumb shit to his paper in order to turn it in.

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Infinite_Loser

Sorry for not responding earlier. This is the first time that I've checked this thread since last night. Anyway, I didn't get a chance to speak to me professor but I did get to speak to the TA who grades the papers and she says that she doesn't grade so much as on length but on content, but to be wary about it being too short. I showed her what I had and she really didn't give me any extra insight as to whether or not it's fine as it (As she said she couldn't do that).

Anyway, I've just decided that I'm going to leave it as is. It's not worth my time worrying about it anymore.

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Sultana

Umm, sorry, but we have no idea whether he's done a good job or not.

Ihave to say that if one hasn't even reached half the minimum length requirement, I have to wonder if the appropriate amount of effort has been given. Generally, professors have an idea of how many pages are needed to plumb the depths of an assignment.

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kutulu

That's what I was thinking. They may not care if you were a page or two short but 7.5 pages is only 37.5% of the minimum requirement. Font sizes and margins are for amateurs. Any professor (or TA) worth their pay should be able to spot that with no problem.

thingstodo

What a simple yet elegent option! Far too many times we are afraid to ask. I have more employees than I care to mention that never take the time to clarify my expectations. More often than not I'll move a little if their due dillegence supports something different.

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eribrav

I've always puzzled over how many of the administrators I work with can take a simple concept, that should be easy to explain in a single page memo, and make it into a 10 page epic of absurdity.

At least now I know where they learn to do it.

highthief

Yeah, graphics are really good - maps, charts, etc.

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Elphaba

I'm curious as to why you asked the members of tfp for their opinion and time, when you had already made up your mind to cut this paper in half? I assume you will share your grade on this paper for those that took the time to respond to your topic.

Your chosen forum name says much about you imo.

snowy

From a college student and future English teacher:

You should have a title page with the title of your paper at the top, your name, your class's abbreviation, and date much lower than that.

Your paper should be formatted like this: 12pt font, Times New Roman, normal margins, double-spaced. You should cite your sources as your professor has requested, and if they haven't said anything or expressed a preference for MLA or APA, use in-text citations and a Works Cited page that conforms to either MLA or APA standards.

Purdue's Online Writing Lab has helped me beyond belief: http://owl.english.purdue.edu/

My advice? Add block quotes AND FORMAT THEM CORRECTLY. Not only do they take up a lot of room, but professors love to see that you correctly cited all of your sources. The biggest problem I see in academics is either 1) either not citing correctly or enough, or 2) not providing enough evidence via good quotes and citations.

If your paper is too short, the likelihood is that you haven't provided enough evidence for your argument.

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soccerchamp76

I'm not sure how hard this is to understand: Writing a 20 page paper in 7.5 pages means YOU DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION OR RESEARCH TOP BACK YOUR OPINION/TOPIC!!!

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Yakk

So, what not to do:
1> Ask for advise and then don't even listen to it before the due date on advise.

That is just rude.

2> Write a 7.5 page paper for a 20 page essay.

Did you do any analysis for your paper? Did you include an appendix of analysis?

Is every one of your points and claims backed up with external research? Are the external research sources properly documented?

Did you look at the issue from more than one angle? For every issue in economics, there are hundreds of positions on it, some more popular than others.

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

Infinite_Loser

Who said I didn't listen to the advice I was given? And, for the record, I didn't decide to "Cut the paper in half". The reason which I said I couldn't be bothered worrying about it was because I had already talked to the TA who said that there was nothing wrong with my paper being short, but just to be sure that I had covered everything. I wasn't going to sit here and just add BS to my paper to meet an arbitrary length requirement.

Anyway, I'll tell you the grade when I get it (Though it won't be for a few weeks).

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Elphaba

I would appreciate that.

Intense1

So why did you even ask us for help, IL? What, you get your kicks from this?

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FoolThemAll

Well, it sounds like IL asked for advice prior to talking to the TA and discovering the TA's less-than-strict view on paper length. And even after that, he may have still considered the advice given. Consideration doesn't necessarily mean acceptance.

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jerseyboy

Length requirements tend not to be arbitrary, professors know how much text it takes to discuss a topic in the proper level of depth. And even if the professor's length requirement was arbitrary I doubt they'd miscalculate to the point of requiring a 20 page paper where only 7.5 was sufficient.

Good ways to lengthen your paper while also making it easier to read are to add headings and subheadings to the text to denote the different sections. If you are having trouble doing this then chances are your papers ideas are jumbled and poorly organized. Have you also included introductory and conclusory sections of your paper. You may see this as filler, but it really makes a paper easier to read, just going into the analysis can leave the reader stranded. That being said, the best way to lengthen a paper is to state the obvious. While a certain point may be obvious to you because you have labored over the research, to a reader who has spent less time with the specific subject matter of the paper things might not be as clear.

One last point regarding the TA. They might have said they dont really care about page length, but once they have a stack of papers all around 20 pages and you turn in one only 7.5 pages long something is going to be going round their head. They may be appreciative of something shorter to read, but chances are if there are inadequacies in your paper they will be magnified.

Yakk

Ah -- my apologies. I thought you had implied "I posted, and didn't get around to reading the thread until 3 pm the next day".

That was my misunderstanding.

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.