What do you think? "Frat suspended over 'Hood' party"
 

Here's the link to the article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061031/...alloween_party

Basically, a frat was suspended for hosting a halloween party where the guests were asked to wear "regional clothing from our locale" with jewelry including "bling bling ice ice, grills" and "hoochie hoops." The Black Student Union took offense, and then the shit hit the fan.

Man, I just think this is so stupid, on many levels. The frat was trying to make fun of some of the absurd things you'll see celebrities wear, not of any particular race of people. I almost feel sorry for the black community, if they see things like grills and other stupid clothes and instantly associate it with their whole race.

And then they complain about a pirate skeleton on a noose they had, and claim that it was a racial thing. A skeleton. On a noose. With a pirate hat. At halloween time.

Can't we all just laugh about how stupid grillz are? Seriously.

It's reverse racism. Our great great great grandparents owned slaves, our great great grandparents lynched blacks, our great grandparents wouldn't let blacks vote, our grandparents treated blacks like crap, our parents stole their music, and we're not sure what to do. I'm not racist. I've never owned slaves. I've never lynched anyone. I've never kept anyone from voting. I've never treated anyone differently because of race, gender (cept for dating, there I make a gender coice) or creed. I've not kept anyone down....and yet people like me are still expected to be apologists for the sins of our fathers.

If there is racism, stamp it out. If there isn't racism, and you call it racism, it's still racism somehow! What a world we live in.

I definitely don't think a 'hood' party is racist, as there are plenty of ghetto white people in the 'hood.'

And I was totally with you, too.. but then I read the article.

That's pushin' it a little too far. Maybe not fraternity suspended far, but kinda sketchy nonetheless.

but why? If I were to see a skeleton hanging on a noose, I don't immediately think that it must have been a black person hung by white supremecists. Doubly so if the skeleton has a pirate hat on it. Quadruply (i'm declaring this a word) so if it's on halloween!

Yea I haven't seen a pirate in a noose since I was at Disney world.

Well, it sounds like they're doing the right things. The members apologized, the community is organizing a meeting to discuss the issues.

I didn't think it was racist, perhaps at the most, in poor taste. Even the skeleton noose in the context (pirates) shouldn't have been a problem, but the party wasn't about pirates, it was a more..."urban" theme.

While we may not think it's racist, apparently some people do. I think it isn't a bad thing to honor that and at the very least have some sort of dialogue. The wounds of racism are deep in this country, it will take some time to heal. And that's ok.

On the other hand, it's easy to see how the BSU was offended, especially on a college campus environment. The few blacks on our campus were always going nuts and protesting something or other. They even went as far as accusing the university of being racist because there are so few blacks on campus. Same with the Latino students.

I say, let them be and they will figure it out on their own eventually, let them say their peace.

It's ridiculous and it's stupid. People need to grow up and grow some thick skin. "hood" culture is RIPE for parody. Hell, it parodies itself! It thrives on its own absurdity. Flava of Love anyone?

Nooses and skeletons (particularly ones with pirate hats) are VERY TRADITIONAL Halloween decorations. My fraternity held several Halloween parties and, wouldn't you know it, we had hung skeletons at every single one of them. We dressed out budget bucky skeleton up differently from year to year, but so it goes. Nothing about this is bizarre. Nothing about this is racist. Nothing about this is worthy of a lawsuit or is "deeply disturbing."

Welcome to the 21st century, morons. There are more important things going on in the world than looking to be offended by a bunch of college students having a fun party.

I can't wait to sue when a group of black students throw a party mocking the Backstreet Boys. If they have any voodoo heads on sticks, I'll be really offended because my ancestors were explorers who were beheaded by an African tribe.

No.

Really.

At my school Kappa Alpha fraternity was kicked out for 15 years for something similar, though very different. They quite litterally advertised their "Nigger and Hoes" party. Their frat showed up with blackface, and pre-party watermelon with fried chicken was served. It was intended as a fundraiser to prepare their house. Their house has since been sold and demolished, and are most likely will never return to the largest University in the country.

This is completely different in my opinion, just some halloween decorations, a theme party conflicting with some overly-sensitive "you owe me because.." people.

Why is there a black student union?

I think the three frat boys who apologized screwed up. They should have told the Black Student Union to get over itself. This is ridiculous.

Same reason there is a Knights of Columbus, Erin Go Braugh, Student Republicans etc

Ya know, I've always wondered just what the hell the Knights of Columbus was about.... is that like a cult or something? Are they like the Masons?

Flock mentality?

Seriously: this is lame. The party was in poor taste, but I'm sure frats do as bad or worse most weekends. Also, your classic stereotypical pirate is white.

The Knihts of Columbus are a club for Italians. That's what all these groups are, clubs for people who share something in common. Although you may be correct that they are similar to or orginating from some sort of Masonic tradition.

I'm not too clear on what Rotary, Lions, Elk and Shriners etc are but I suspect I will probably have to join one when I get older. I always thought it was just an excuse for middle aged men to get together and drink beer and act juvenile while doing charity.

Well, Carno, you got me curious so I looked it up. I was off (but not too far off) - here is the info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_Columbus

I can see why the black student union would find this objectionable. The language of the invitation dances around it, but it sure looks and sounds a lot like a "dress like a stereotypical black person" party. Upscale universities like Johns Hopkins that have a predominantly white student population and are located in a predominantly black community often have problems with racial sensitivity that go both ways. Duke gets much the same difficulty. Given the pre-exisiting difficulties such schools often have, being a little overly cautious is understandable.

Precisely. College campuses are filled with groups that share a common interest getting together for mutual support. It's nothing new, and does support one of the purposes of a college education, social networking.

I find it boring and pretty silly, but I've seen it all before. Having attended way too many Duke University parties to remember, I do remember how people would mention they hoped that it wouldn't cause a shitstorm. Regardless of a shit storm or not, those were some damn good parties.

Exactly. This is a college full of rich white kids (presumably) located in a mostly poor black area. These rich white kids had a party where the theme was (basically) "make fun of the urban black kids you see outside of campus" and you people don't understand why the black student union got ticked?

It's totally fair to debate whether or not the response and subsequent discipline was justified but if you can't even see why people might get upset you are out of touch. How many white celebs and kids wear grills and over the top bling? Do the ones that do typically get made fun of for trying to look black? Be honest, that type of fashion is largly black-oriented.

Would asians be offended if there was a kung fu party and everyone wore buck teeth and bamboo conical hats?

This is stupid. What made this an issue was the skeleton, which unless it had a friggin' afro wig on it, isn't racist. People are just scared of having the racist label on them. I don't think the skeleton decoration was intended to be racist, and you certainly can't prove it was.

This is stupid. What made this an issue was the skeleton, which unless it had a friggin' afro wig on it, isn't racist. People are just scared of having the racist label on them. I don't think the skeleton decoration was intended to be racist, and you certainly can't prove it was.

See, here's the problem. I went to UPenn, which is in the middle of West Philadelphia. It's a bad neighborhood. If you're stupid or unlucky, it's a dangerous neighborhood. You spend a lot of time dealing with people begging for money, with groups of people staring you down while you walk down the street, with local employees all but refusing to serve your scrawny-white-entitled-ass but GOD FORBID you respond to any of that, because then you're a racist. Ever been walking to class when a pack of thirteen year olds tear down the sidewalks on their bikes shouting epithets, catcalling and blasting music? Each of them doing their best to play chicken with every pedestrian so that someone can run into someone else and they can start trouble?

Town and gown is a tough dynamic even under "ideal" circumstances. It's a lot tougher when there are racial differences and economic differences to exacerbate that. It's not fun to have a neighborhood look at you like YOU personally are the man who is keeping them from succeeding. And, as these poor bastards found out, there's not a damn thing you can do about it without people screaming "ENTITLED, INSENSITIVE RACISTS!"

Sure, they didn't have a My Little Ponies party. They picked a theme that had something of an edge to it, probably because it's something that they encounter and think about every day, so they thought, on a night when everyone's dressing up and doing crazy stuff, they'd play on it and dress up and do crazy stuff. My fraternity had a hotel party where we had a room what was themed "Wiggers" to make fun of white kids who act all ghetto and we wore baggy clothes and drank malt liquor. Does that make us racist or culturally insensitive?

The "victims of discrimination" can make people feel pretty victimized, too. My family, in its entirety, came to the United States after slavery ended. They were peasants in their countries of origin; some more distant relatives were serfs. They worked hard. They learned English. Their descendants are all professionals or are in academia. Why do I deserve to face daily hatred and scorn from the people around my school's community because of the simple fact that I'm white and academically successful? It's frustrating and, over four years (as you can tell), you can develop some pretty strong feelings about it. This party was an outlet for that feeling. Being suspended over it is absurd. The black student union of course has a right to protest if they're offended, but for the school president to feel "deeply distrubed" is stupid, as are any administartive and/or legal consequences.

Frostbyte:

Let me see if I'm getting this right. It's ok to make fun of them because they are dicks to you? Also, please note the difference between individuals being dicks and a college-sponsored organization being dicks.

Toaster:

I don't think that the skeleton is all they are mad about. Did you miss that the whole party was a parody of urban black youths?

As a side note, fraternities are not "college-sponsored." At best they're "college-recognized" and at worst "college-tolerated." They are not in any way spokesmen for the university. They're organized, exclusive groups of friends. In every group of friends I've ever been in, we made fun of people who were dicks to us. I'd be pretty shocked if you and everyone else here didn't.

The black-face party by the KA Order is a good example of a problem. This party is not a problem. It's a joke. You don't have to attend. You don't have to laugh. They wanted to laugh about it with their friends. Everyone else is looking for trouble and ways to be offended and the school is looking to appease people who are overreacting.

frosstbyte: when were you at penn?

There's a difference between being upset with the specific people who have caused you offense and mocking the larger group to which they belong, as if a characteristic like race or economic status made everyone in that group responsible. I dislike homophobes, but don't mock all straight people just because those who've targeted me for various reasons were straight.

Oh, I strongly disagree. Giving the party a blatantly racist name and theme is good reason for the University to withdraw official recognition. "It's a joke" doesn't excuse blatant bigotry.

"college-sponsored", "college-recognized", "college-tolerated" whatever, same difference. You have to recognize the difference between a couple of co-workers being dicks and a franchise of a company being dicks.

You are drawing a comparison between you and your friends to a nationally organized group. There is a big difference.

So for people who found this offensive: can you suggest a way to make fun of people like Flava Flav, who are begging to be mocked, without being racist? or are we not allowed to make fun him and the fashion trend of people like him, because he's black and majority of people who partake in these fasions are black?

look, these people are making fun of a retarded fashion trend. nothing more. if you interpret that as being racist, then you're fishing for an argument when there should be none.

I thought everyone knew this already: if you are white you are not allowed to say or do anything that could possibly be construed as anything other than apologism to any minority or you are a RACIST.

I'm SAS05.

When it's prefaced by a description that amounts to "dress like a poor black person", that's a problem, and is bound to exacerbate the already existing animosity in the area, which gives the school a good reason to discourage such behavior.

When you openly mock others, particularly those with whom there is preexisting hostility, you should expect that their getting upset is a foreseeable and reasonable consequence.

Exactly, people are fishing for arguments. They're looking to be offended. It's stupid to look for reasons to be offended. I can spend all day looking for things to piss me off, but it'll get really old really fast because something happens literally every second. It was a party poking fun at a culture that these kids-and lots of others, including people who are part of the culture-find entertaining and ridiculous. It has a little edge to it, but, at the end of the day, it's not overtly racist or hate-filled or violent or destructive.

I bet you no less than 100 parties with similar themes happened over Halloween weekend. People pounced on this, so now it's a big deal. If they hadn't been looking to be offended by something, it would've just been another party that some people thought was offensive and didn't go to and some people thought was hilarious and relished every moment of it.

it wasn't prefaced by "dress like a poor black person". It was prefaced by dress in a style that happens to be popular with poor and rich people of every race, but typical of less affluent neighborhoods. Again, it's time for the Black Student Union and the NAACP to get over themselves.

I don't know - I just read the article in the OP. Based on what I've read about this and what's been revealed in the thread, I can easily see how the BSU would be upset, but I don't agree with the position of the University on this. I definately think the skeleton aspect is a situation where an offended party is seeing what they want to see. If it was the only Halloween decoration at the party, maybe...maybe I could see it...particularly if it didn't resemble a pirate (which apparently it did). I don't think the party was really the best idea, but I don't think they should be suspended for it. I guess I pretty much see this as a freedom of expression situation, and I think that encouraging kids to have a healthy respect for the freedom of expression is one of the best things about college. It's one of the only times that people get to experience it to that degree, and then the rest of their lives they have to work to determine how they can assimilate freedom of expression into their lives in the real world.

In short, I'd guarantee that at least some of the members of this frat were/are either blatantly or socially racist - but I don't think the specifics of this situation warrant the reaction its receiving.

edit: i just remembered that i had some friends who threw a "Trailer Park" party about a month ago. Everyone wear a fake mullet, women wear fake stuff to look like they're pregnant, drink bud light, etc. If that were college sponsors, would the WTU (white trash union) have legitimate reason to have the party shut down. Would the university care? What would the reaction to this party be if it were thrown by the BSU, or Alpha Phi Alpha?

edit had to correct a their/they're issue. God, I'm one of those people...

Some people just need to stop playing "victim" and get over themselves.

Well, that's quite a bit different from what I said.

How do you know they're "looking to get offended?"

forget it......

My inference from the available facts leads me to believe that given the option to ignore something they disliked or to make a big stink about something that some college students thought would be a good theme for a party, they decided to make a big stink about it. It's about picking battles. They chose this battle, and, from the facts I have, I can't imagine why they care that much. I have a very hard time believing these people are personally offended that some of their fellow students were making fun of grills and bling. It's far easier for me to believe they are looking for a fight or for some reason dislike this fraternity and were looking for a reason to give them grief.

This has happened before. I think someone of moderate importance (can't remember who) protested some new reality TV show featuring "poor white trash" and "hick rednecks" (an offensive epithet to me at least) and I think was successful in shutting it down. Anyone else remember this?

I can see why they might be offended, but there's really no way to put myself in their shoes and understand how they felt, so in the absence of any reason to think they were looking to be offended, I assume they genuinely were offended. Vocally opposing what you perceive to be prejudice is generally a good thing. It may have been an overreaction in this case, colored by previous tension, and I probably wouldn't have drawn the line where they did, but I'm not in their shoes.

One person's opposing prejudice is another's overreacting to a small thing. I prefer to err on the side of courtesy.

Sure it's a question of freedom of expression. On both ends. The frat is free to have the party themed this way, and the black student union is free to say they don't like that theme.

jorgelito, I knew axl rose would find some way to stay in the limelight. ;) seriously, i'm don't think i'm poor white trash, but some could make an argument for the "hick redneck" part - but i don't really feel offended by the terms. Then again, I grew up in suburbia, so I'm not really at the far end of the hick thing.

My cousins are. They might actually be offended to be called a hick. Interesting, I'll have to ask.

gilda i agree totally - i think. if it were up to me, based on the limited amount of information i have about this one incident, i don't know that i'd take the actions that the university has. no question the bsu has the right to voice / file a complaint.


i actually do think it would make a difference if the sponsoring frat had been a traditional black frat like alpha phi alpha, or if the sigma chi frat had thrown it together with a black frat. (i'd pay to see the guys from sigma chi approaching the alphas about that idea :love: )its never really going to play well to have a bunch of white kids making fun of black culture, particularly in a city full of black people.

i wonder what the reaction would have been if alpha phi alpha threw a trailer park party, and really took it to extremes of making fun of caricatures of white culture in the middle of a rural white area. i'd bet that wouldn't cause any problems

/sarcasm

And if it did, I'd be saying the same things. It's a party. There are funny stereotypes. I think people just need to get over themselves about it.

The funny thing is piggy, I'm not even white. However, I do think fair is fair so I don't think it's nice to use derogatory terms about ANYONE. So if the 'n' word offends me, then faggot and white-trash-redneck-hick offends me too (assuming these are epithets).

By the way, I think your interfrat part idea is brilliant (seriously) with more thought and planning. Maybe if they tweaked the theme a bit though. Like Aerosmith and RUND DMC? (work with me here...)

~~

When people employ stereotypes they shouldn't be surprised when the targets take exception. I think people need to be a little more aware of how their actions affect others.

"Faggot" is definitely an epithet when used to describe gay males or transgendered people, either directly or by implication.

Thanks Gilda, but I was actually just trying to be very neutral in my tone. Hopefully my post made sense and not cause confusion.

Oh for pity's sake. If the black community doesn't like whites mocking stupid getto/hood/urban behavior then perhaps they shouldn't behave in such a steriotypical way? The kids were being stupid. The whole theme was not with an intent to mock blacks but rather a chance to dress up and act like someone else - isn't that one of the main ideas of Halloween?? To be up in arms about this will only irritate that issue more. Good of the kids to at least apologize though I personally don't think they HAD to.

First of all, that version of "Walk this Way" is one of the best things I've ever heard. Maybe I just grew up at the right time. In fact, anything from Raisin' Hell is pretty whip-ass.

I always try to understand how redneck and hick are derogatory, but I never really feel they are. Maybe it's because I'm essentially inside the group, so it doesn't register with me. Kind of reminds me of a while back when I was driving downtown to get a drink with 3 puerto ricans, a black guy, and a white girl from Texas. One of puerto ricans was visiting, and I think he was a little astonished to be around a quasi-diverse group in SC, and made some comment on it. One of the other Puerto Ricans said something to the affect that we in a car with 3 spics, after which the black guy said some about adding one nigger, and the girl from texas said something about having two crackers. Everyone was laughing, no hard feelings - if anything those moments tend to lighten everyone up - but what I noticed is that I personally felt almost no tension about the cracker bit - I mean, I just don't care - whereas there was a noticable tension as soon as the words "spic" and "nigger" were uttered. I understand all of it, but I still don't equate "redneck" or "hick" as being quite on par. I guess I might be mildly irritated if someone of a different ethnicity called me a "hick," but I think it might more be irritated that they would expect that to be insulting to me, in the sense that I'd be dissapointed that they couldn't come up with something better.

I've seen plenty examples of white southerners getting sick of people referring to them as hicks and rednecks because of their accents and other aspects of their culture. Don't pretend that it's just minorities that get offended by stereotypes.

Why was the BSU upset? I don't know. It's not as if media makes it seem like the bling culture is the majority of black youths and the members of the BSU probably don't like being associated with a culture that presents itself in that fashion. I'm shocked SHOCKED that the BSU was offended.

It's 2006, I think it's pretty easy to tell if something has the potential to offend people. It's really not that hard. Therefore, if you can tell that a theme might offend outsiders, why go through with it? It's about being a conscientious human being and trying not to do things that will offend people. Sure, maybe the BSU was a little thin-skinned here and they suffered from sandinthevaginitis but the fact is that it should have been easy to see that the party might offend people and to just do it anyways is dickish.

The university might also be taking this more seriously because it wasn't just a random party by random students but by a fraternity. There's a good posibility that this fraternity may be a torn in someone's side and that might be another reason for really hyping it up...

Don't laugh, as a former Greek on campus, it really does happen.

Is this honestly how you feel?
Or...is it more about trying not to do things that will offend certain select groups of the minority du jour?
Think about it carefully before answering.

Hey, I believe you. As I said, I've got a lot of family that lives out on farmland, that hunt alot, confederate flags all over the place, etc. I imagine they would take offense to redneck / hick thing. However, I do feel that given the difference in the relatively modern American experience, that the level of insult given with redneck or hick (which are not strictly racial, but cultural - ie. you can have black hicks - its just commonly used), is much less than what I perceive blacks and hispanics perceive as the use of the previously mentioned racial slurs.

there is alot of politics around symbolism at colleges. i suspect it follows from a whole range of factors, one of which i think is that students run into fundamentally new ways of thinking about the world around them at univerisity, many of which are far more historically and politically oriented than they seem to have run into in the "what is real is rational" no child left behind backwater that is most high schools. the way in which these approaches to the social world are taught is via texts---so the effective politics--and often the conceptual frames--condense around words, around signs/signifiers--and amongst students who feel particularly strongly about the questions they encounter and the factors they discover, it is not surprising to find a kind of heightened sensitivity to symbolic politics.

personally, i think that this is in the main a good thing, though i wish that it would form the basis for a different, more active and militant public political life outside campuses as well, but one can dream i guess.

at any rate, conflicts over symbols are not necessarily empty, they more often than not resonate with or are linked to political questions in the outside world. i think there are few downsides to having the experience of political organization. i like that campuses are noisy places and that students (in particular) gather information, disseminate it, and stage actions. i think it is a good thing that they will make noise, take over the manicured greens, rattle the place.

this extends to conservative organizations even, though i would hope that conservative students would be less exactly like their talk show counterparts, would be less absolutely in line with the conservative talking points of the moment, would be more independent intellectually and discursively, but hey maybe servility is a skill as well. but it doesnt matter so much: what does matter is the experience of organization building and political mobilization. you would think this an important set of skills were the united states anything like a functional democracy, woudln't you?

that said, i dont think it follows that every action is equivalent as action, every protest a great thing because it is a protest. in the hopkins case, it is pretty clear that you have a stupid fraternity party based on a kind of meathead provocation as its theme, the invitations for which floated into the supercharged space of symbolic politics that is the public sphere at that school. it seems to me a passing conflict the significance of which is being magnified here by it being the topic of a thread.

in general, i an not a fan of fraternities: i think them floating islands of organized stupidity. they function mostly as retrograde extensions of high-school based modes of sociability. they throw stupid parties. they consume bad beer. they listen to bad music. but i guess they serve a useful function--folk forget that university functions as a theater of a complex developmental phase and that it is difficult to keep one's moorings as one passes through the system and so maybe it is reassuring to have a space to be a meathead at and about parties---it is surely a good thing to have alternatives to living in a dorm and eating the appalling food that most universities dump on their students--and it is a good thing to be provided with a space for creating networks of friends that can then have adventures. so i can see why fraternities are ok for the folk that pass through them, but i still dont like them. too many have too dense a history of doing really stupid things.

since frosstbyte brought it up.....

at penn, which is a school i know WAY too much about, the greek system as a whole was is much about a reinforcement of the class order from which the student population was drawn as anything else. they seem to be about reinforcing a sense of class position when other aspects of their education tend to force students to re-evaluate their sense of social identity. and in that, the system served a pretty foul function: it doesnt really matter so much what you learn or what you think, what matters is how much money mummy and daddy have, what your background was as a function of how much money mummy and daddy have, your class-specific modes of sociability, based on how much money mummy and daddy have, and whether your particular embodiment of your class position "fits" with the template of a particular frat. so dont worry so much if you get to penn and find that you are not as elite as you imagined yourself to be in high school--all this academic stuff only goes so far--remember, kids, that your class position can be determinate of your identity---what you wear, how you carry yourself, your abilities at bonhommie--these things matter.

i found frosstbyte's posts in this thread to be very very strange in that they seemed to be a totally unself-conscious repetition of the narcissism of penn frat life---why would anyone take offense at stuff that "we" do for "us"? it is not about "them"......our parties, their stupid themes, they are "our" jokes--the parties are about bad beer, bad music and class-specific mating rituals--if you dont like it, dont come to the party, dude.

it is as if the primary institutions within the university that reinforce social class as determinate (within a university that effectively does the same thing objectively as a function of admission criteria and tuition levels and--in particular--the relaxed admission standards for legacies) are in some bizarre private sphere and should not be held to account for anything, much less for affronts generated by their actions at the level of symbolic politics.

and this is, at bottom, why i find fraternities to be foul: they generate and sustain the illusion that class is not a political issue, that it is not a public sphere matter, that it---and its effects---are private matters. that class position is about "us" and not about the relational system of which it is necessarily a part. this seems to me the underlying problem that surfaces through what i take to be a fairly insignificant political flash at hopkins, and what i saw running through frosstbyte's posts as well-which i single out only because he references my alma mater and so brought a space that i know altogether too well into this...

It could be worse. It could be the Black Student Organization at my school that has meetings every month with banners strewn everywhere. The banners? Oh, they say, "Black Student Organization meeting -- Thursday at 9:00 PM. Come celebrate your diversity. Blacks ONLY."

Sure enough, there's a club at my school that only allows black people admittance, and celebrates how black people are different than others during the meetings. And people wonder why crap like the OP's article happen. Diversity is the fucking cancer of our planet.

I concur, imagine if we had a white student union? Things would get militant.

As far as the party goes, I see no problem there. I find grillz and the rest retarded. I cant help it if some black people like them, im going to make fun of it regardless of race.

I've used it so much, that I'm starting to get sick of this phrase but...

NO WHERE IN THE CONSITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES, DOES IT SAY THAT YOU HAVE A RIGHT NOT TO BE OFFENDED.

Get over it people, racism won't go away until people, all people, stop throwing it in the spot light, let it go, and move the fuck on.

Nor does it say you can't object when you are offended.

I disagree. Throwing a spotlight on it and saying "This is wrong," is the single best way of combating bigotry.

There are many white student unions: Daughters of the Confederacy, Erin Go Braugh, Polish Student Society, Italian Student Union, Lithuanian Student Union, French Club, Hellenic Students on Campus, Armenian Student Union, Turkish Student Union, Swedish Student Union, Germanis Student Society, Oi Aussie Student Club, Ros on Campus, etc..etc....

There's nothing wrong with a Black Student Union

Wow, this is a great quote. Do they not see the irony here?

I disagree. Diversity can be abused but overall I think diversity is a good thing.

For what it's worth, the GLBTA organization at my school welcomes straight people. We have several straight members. The same was true at the schools I went to for undergrad and grad work.

I don't know what you are getting at here. IMO, I don't see what is so hard at looking at a theme and deciding on whether or not people might take offense to it. Also, you left out the other part about people needing to not get so offended by everything (why?).

It goes both ways, people need to be more sensitive about what they say and they also don't need to get their panties in a bunch about what everyone else says.

And not a one of those cater to white american males specifically. Polish, Italian, Femails, Lituanian, French, etc etc....

Now if i started a "American Causcaison Club" and only allowed people that have had the past 5 generations within the US, as citizens, for males only, I garaun-fucking-tee I'd catch some hell for it.

And not all Black Student Unions cater to only black males specifically. My brother was in the Black Student Union at his school.

The list above "caters" to their respective groups. And you can start an American Caucasian Club if you wished as long as it was in accordance to university policies and guidelines.

On another note, the Jewish Clubs at our school ARE Jewish only. I tried to sign up so that I could go to Israel but was denied.

I suppose, but I bet a group for white american males gets a supremist tag pretty quickly.

But its a moot point, as I'm not going to sway you.

we called them "pimps 'n hos" parties. We had people from several different races attend. We also had strippers. I wish I was still in college.

No, no not at all, your point is well taken and I do see it as plausible, actually highly likely that a group would get that tag. I just wanted to point out that there were other aspects as well and such.

jorgelito, krwlz

i agree with the white supremicist tag on the A.C.C. - and what's more, it would probably be pretty accurate. to think that it would be is to ignore the history of race relations for the past several hundred years. i'm not a white apologist, by a long shot, but the facts are that predominantly white europeans took over the world and put everyone in chains? why? because they could, and that's what you did back in the day. (we still kind of do that these days too) its a natural thing that the group that hasn't been oppressed for hundreds of years probably won't need a club to establish their identity and feelings of equality, the non-tradionally dominant groups miight. it doesn't really bother me.

damn right. friends of mine have also thrown "golf pros and tennis hoes" and "white trash beer bash" parites as well. people need to lighten up.

feh, i guess the real problem was the fact that it's a frat throwing the party, and that frat has private governing bodies to answer to. maybe this is along the same lines as watching porn at work: it's not illegal, but it will still get you fired.

LOL @ gilda changing the name of the party to make it sound more offensive.

Poor black people can't afford grills or bling. Bling and grills are not race specific either are baggy clothes. You see that sort of fashion on T.V. on multiple races including asians and whites. Since when do clothes represent a race anyway?

The skeleton had a pirate hat on. In my life I don't think I have ever seen a black man wear a pirate hat except maybe at an amusement park some where. Unless that is some new black urban craze than them using a skeleton on halloween is not racist.

This whole thing is ridiculuos. These black kids at the university were obviously hoodwinked into complaining by an over powered racist black man. DAMN THE BLACK DEVIL. I'm gonna go watch W.E.T. TV now.

This is 100% retarded.

I am really speechless that a pirate skeleton in a tree is being equated to a lynching.

Just as someone stated above, one of the most fundamental skills that college graduates acquire is the ability to network - the suspension of the frat as the subsequent result of their actions, whether you believe them to be racist or not, is justifiable enough simply because their party succeeded in alienating not only the members of the Black Student Union but what is apparently every single person living in the local area.

I wouldn't go so far as to assume these students are racist but they surely could've helped me (along with the Black Student Union and the school administration) believe that they weren't - if their comical style of dress was to truly be indicative of the "regional clothing from our locale" then they seem to have a very limited (and seemingly racist) perception of those that live in the area of the school.

Had they not added with their fliers that the party was themed after those from the area then the sentiments expressed by the Black Student Union would be nothing more than an overreaction.

And while some may realize that they have so little an argument to stand on that they search for parallels between the effects of the party and the fact that the Black Student Union is oriented towards black students "and is thus just as exclusionary" - even if the Black Student Union was so exclusionary that it was open only to the blackest of all black students it'd still succeed much more in uniting those few students than the mockery and exclusionary overtones of the party could ever allow for.

I'm surprised that you even have the time to type this when you've apparently dedicated yourself to surveying all black people - everywhere. Please continue you statements as justified as the one I've quoted above as you're apparently the expert.

This thread has left me thoroughly disappointed. Simply put, I thought the TFP was better than this.

But don't you get offended if a male opens a door for you?

More importantly, assuming that making fun of someone who jams a bunch of metal in his mouth and wears his pants beneath his ass makes you a bigot, does a person have a right to be a bigot?

P.S. Don't watch "Pirates of the Caribbean." The first one has skeletons hanging in one of the very first scenes.

Disney shouldn't get away with that.

wow!! if the shoe was on the other foot and there was a black frat who had a redneck/trailer park trash party and people were dressed up the way they see poor white folks, would any of you not be offended? just a hypothetical question. don't jump down my throat. i just want some HONEST feedback from the people who think it was dumb for the BSU to get offended.:cool:

I would not be offended if a black frat had a "Hillbilly Halloween" party, as a matter of fact, I think it's a great idea, but even better would would be "Halloween in the Hamptons", where they dress up like the stereo typical Biff and Muffy rich white people. I really think people need to stop looking for a reason to be offended.

It wasn't a "make fun of Flava" party. It was a "make fun of black people" party.

I'm not going to go so far as to say they should be punished for what they did, but it was a pretty ignorant thing to do and if they caught some flak for it, well boo-hoo. If one of my kids was involved in something like that they'd certainly get the pointy end of my opinion, too. Funny thing though, my kids would find such a party to be distasteful and would say so because that's the way they were brought up. It's the way I was brought up. My parents grew up in the South in a world where black people were fair game as the brunt of white people's jokes, including in their own families. They made a point of breaking that cycle of racism with their own kids much to the chagrin at times of my grandparents. Too many people have lost touch with exactly how ugly a mark racism has left on America in our all too recent past. I think the sensitivity on this issue should not only be expected but also called for.

As other people pointed out, imagine if a black fraternity had a "dress like rich white kids" or "dress like a redneck" party. I don't think there would be a single complaint whatsoever.

My school has no fraternities/sororities, but upperclassmen live in houses off-campus, typically 4-7 people in a house, and "house parties" dominate. Well, there was a "Thug party" where the costume theme was the same as this party. It wasn't Halloween, though. No complaints.

I think there are just some overly sensitive people. If the black group cares about racism, do they know how hypocritical it is for their student government group to even exist? Or how some of their members are probably getting a free ride because of a "Martin Luther King Jr. Scholarship"?

Or the varying reactions you would get if this happened:
A white student saw a random black person crossing the street and yelled, "You nigger!"
A black student saw a random white person crossing the street and yelled, "You cracker!"

Spot on. And what's worse, people like me, who's great great great grandparents lived on a different continent during that time and took no part in such racist behavior are ALSO expected to be apologists. THAT's what pisses me off.:mad:

No. Where did you get that idea? I'm usually pleased with this, regardless of the sex of the person doing so, because doors can be difficult for me if I'm carrying something.

Sure. Those who are the targets of the bigotry have an equal right to voice their objections.

The Pirates of the Caribbean movies make fun of black people? I must have missed that part.

I didn't change the name. I described my interpretation of the intent, clearly identifying that description as my own words.

It has nothing to do with being apologists. It has to do with not being ignorant turds. If you're not behaving that way, then who exactly is asking you to apologize? I'm 41 years old, have lived in the south all my life and never once have I been asked to apologize for America's racist past.

What if the party were one in which people dressed up like "Injuns" and danced around with feathers and tomahawks making fun of Native Americans? Or how 'bout portraying them as alcoholics who live in trailers? That's funny, ain't it? Whoo boy, what fun! How about a party making fun of gays and lesbians? I have a funny suspicion that those parties would give people a little more pause. Why is that?

For smartass white kids in college to have a party mocking any minority group is just plain childish and stupendously ignorant and an open invitation for whatever grief any offended group wants to pile on them in my opinion. Don't want to be bothered by it? Then grow the hell up.

Correction: you live in Florida :D

But seriously, I agree with this entirely. The students would have to aware that they were skating a pretty thin line with this party theme. Its not really a stretch to percieve racism inherent in this situation.

I live in Florida now, but my people reign from Gawgia, honey pie. ;)

and also...

I'm glad you understand. We seem to have developed a knee-jerk under-reaction to racism against blacks. It's a cultural thing I don't quite understand.

How do you feel about the fact that a school organization called the "Black Student Government" is allowed to exist? Is that racist? Or how about the fact that every member of said group is probably at the school on a scholarship that isn't merit based?

Racism pisses me off. I'm from the south, lived much of my life on the "wrong" side of the Mason-Dixon, and have had to explain to many times that I CAN have this accent and not be a member of the KKK. So when I see people who talk like me, and look like me, go out of their way to prove to the world that people that look like me and talk like me are racists, I get pissed. It's hard work to undo all that negativity.

These kids were STUPID. The theme of the party was surely offensive. I would love to actually be able to see one of these invitations. I was unable to look at the link in the OP because yahoo said it didn't exist anymore. I looked for the article, but I don't know which college it was at and apparantly there were SEVERAL issues with people dressed in offensive costumes at frat parties this last Halloween. I looked into the one at Hopkins University.

Did the invitation actually say "dress in regional clothing such as bling bling, grills, etc" If so then doesn't it stand to reason that this type of dress is not unusual in the region? I'm not sure I see a point to dressing up in "costume" on Halloween to look like the neighbors do every day. If not, then I'm not sure I see where anyone got offended.

Suspending the kids was out of line unless their charter says they won't be racist. Discrimination is against the law (unless your a white male protestant, then your fair game). Racism is not. However stupid these kids were, anything above and beyond a protest of their actions is inappropriate.

That last sentence could've put Stretch Armstong to shame.

As far as I've ever known of them, there hasn't even been a Black Student Union that's exclusive only to blacks. As I said before, student unions don't exist with the purpose of being exclusionary but to unite any group of students with a common interest or background to share the college experience from a similar perspective.

...

Do you realize that what you are saying can easily be interpreted to mean that NO person of non Caucasian race could possibly EARN a scholarship?

You know quite well the point he was making and that he was exaggerating when he made it. There's no reason to twist people's words to make them say things they're not.

That isn't to say the point is right or well-taken, but he was making a point about race-based scholarships, not about how smart or meritorious members of a particular race are in comparison to another.

It was very presumptous to assume that most black students were there on a non-merit based scholarship. I would like to see evidence of that. Whatever point he was trying to make about race-based scholarships (which is very debatable - as a minority, I never received a race-based scholarship) was completely erroneous.

Of course it's presumptuous. It was an exaggeration. I'm quite sure soccerchamp doesn't actually think that every black person at the school is on a non-merit-based race-based scholarship. The point he was making (which is not at all erroneous, even if it was somewhat clouded in his exaggeration) was that if you made a "WASP Male Scholarship Fund" you'd catch a lot of grief for being a misogynist and a racist. However, female only or race-specific scholarships are relatively common and are well-accepted. That double standard does exist and was the point soccerchamp made. Respond to that point, not the exaggeration on its face.

Ok, I see what you are saying now. On the matter of racebased scholarships, I don't really see the problem as it is a private matter. If it was publically funded then I would have a problem with it. You could argue that there are white scholarships such as the Daughters of the Confederacy, Sons of the Confederacy scholarships, etc. Also, scholarships tend to break down into 2 different categories: merit and need based. It also depends on who's funding the scholarships. If some tycoon wants to fund "x-group" only then no big deal, it's his money. They do that already.

When I applied for scholarships , there were some interesting categories you could check. Descendants of the Mayflower, Descendants of the Settlers of the West (my school is in California), Armenian Ancestry, etc..

On the why don't white people get the same treatment for scholarships? And why does the BSU exist - the WSU would probably be thought of as racist?"

ie. who do you think would actually show up for a meeting of the White Students Union?
Paint it how you will, that statement smacks of racism. "Shit, he was just making a point..." Oh, well ok then. As long as a point was being made, we'll just characterize all blacks in college as undeserving of the opportunity. Is anecdotal evidence ok? Why not, our standards are so high; the saludatorian at my high school was a black female, as I believe was the 5th person in our class. Both got academic scholarships to go to school.

As far as race-based scholarships go, I think we're approaching a point where economic situation of the family is a more accurate way to distribute college funds. However, to think that in a couple of generation this whole race issue in America is going to be magically cleared up is crazy. No question about it - race-based scholarships are definately discriminatory; however, it used to make a lot of sense to tie need-based scholarships to race, and now (given generational poverty) its still pretty strongly correlated.

I hear this kind of ridiculous argument all the time. Blacks are a minority whose culture is not reflected or represented in its entirety within mainstream society, therefore, sometimes they form their own organizations. It is not reverse racism. They only seek to stake out a place of their own within cultures that default largely to the white majority.

Um if you dont want people to make fun of you for wearing your pants around your knees, wearing tons of gold chains, and having gold teeth, then MAYBE you shouldn't do it. It's not the fraternity's fault that the culture they chose to dress up as, is a culture that thrives on making itself look as ridiculous as possible. Its kind of like shooting fish in a barrel.

I'd say it was racist if they were doing stuff like dressing up as poor, or implying that they were under educated, or implying that a race of people was lower than their race. But from what I gather, all they were saying was "we think you guys have a funny sense of fashion".

I want to be clear, because it probably sounds that way...I do not accuse these college kids of being racist, at least not in a literal sense. I'm not under the opinion that they held this costume party out of a hatred of black people. My concern is that this party is indicative of the general ignorance and indifference society has been garnering over the last couple of decades toward the issue of racism against blacks. It is still a sensitive issue whether you like it or not. And it has not gone away. Spend a little time in the rural south and you will see what I mean. And I'm not so naive as to believe those are the only areas in which it still exists. I've sat through many mind bending conversations with people from all over who don't consider themselves racist but complain about the NAACP and even BET(?!), coolly disregarding the very real purpose and circumstances that led to the formations of these organizations (ie, a very real and prevalent racial bias and a lack of media outlets that come from a black perspective). There are people my own age whose parents were brought up in a society where racism was institutionalized and stereotypical portrayals of them in popular culture were totally acceptable. Yet, what? They aren't getting over it fast enough? I think I might have a little chip on my shoulder, too. Anyone would. And I think I would be on the lookout for it, too, maybe even sometimes where it wouldn't exist. So what? Sue me.

I hate to think this, but I can't help it. And I'm just going to say it because I'm getting over a flu, I feel like crap this morning and I don't much care what anyone thinks of it. When I contemplate just what it is that makes people these days apologists for subtle racism, the only thing I can come up with is that white folks still don't like it when black folks get "uppity." If they'd just shut up and live quietly within the parameters left to them by hundreds of years of oppression, humiliation and mockery then maybe white people would be able to pity them with more sincerity and conviction. Is that it? If anyone has any other ideas I'd be glad to consider them, but it's the only thing I've come up with.

Say what, honkey?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29..._jefferson.jpg

haha! Thanks for making me laugh this morning. I needed that.

Disclaimer: The original link to the article isn't working, so I am basing my opinion on this matter on information posted by others.

I disagree. People have a right to their opinion (including the opinion that some activity is offensive or racist) but the rest of society has no obligation to take these opinions seriously. And automatically giving credibility to anyone with a complaint sounds like a great way to drastically increase the number of complainers.

Is this alleged "under-reaction" specific to Florida, or is it happening all over the USA or even the world in general? My experience has been that the racism mostly likely to receive an under-reaction is bigotry against white people. That's not to say that bigotry against blacks is never ignored or that every instance of bigotry against whites becomes a major issue, but it seems to me that white people are expected to tolerate a lot more mocking and mistreatment than non-whites before their complaints are considered legitimate.