ratbastid

Thank you.

Elphaba

Does that mean you are sure of your cock?

I honestly don't understand the source of the recent friction among members, but there appears to be a sensitivity to perceived criticism. (Is there some possible way that I or anyone else have the *opportunity* of taking more offense?) This thread along with a couple of others has gone...umm (searching for a politically correct use of words)...down the friggin' toilet.

There seems to be a recent tendency toward confrontation among the members. I would give a damn, but my interests and support of tfp have become niggardly, at best.

jorgelito

I know what you mean. Pull up a spot at the bar here with me Elph and have a beer. Let's just call a spade a spade eh?

KnifeMissile

I don't understand your confusion. If you're going to come in here, or any other thread, and disagree with someone, they're obviously going to respond. No one's going to lie around while you criticize what they say. They're going to defend themselves, as well they should. What the hell else are people supposed to do when they're attacked? You can just sit back and "take it" if you want but I, for one, will stand up for myself, thank-you-very-much! No one's going to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about...

flstf

The same people who would get upset over the use of niggardly and assume the word has anything to do with race.

What I never quite understood about this story was why were those offended by the use of this word so quick to assume the person using it wanted to utter a racial slur. You would think they would realize they just heard a word that sounds something like a racial slur but give him the benefit of the doubt until they know the meaning. I mean, in the context the word was used, did they really think he intended to use a racial slur working for the government of a city that is over 90% black?

Elphaba

Make it a triple of whatever you are drinking, jorgelito.

KnifeMissile, please join us, if you wish. There is a chance you didn't understand my meaning or intention. I am not the best communicator, by far.

aKula

I don't see that in this thread at all. People have taken up positions which, though similar in agreeing that the response was too severe, differ in regard to whether the advisor should have been more careful in his choice of words. I don't really see anything that confrontational in this thread.

As for me I can agree that he should have been more careful in choosing his words but more to protect himself rather than because of any umbrage others may perceive.

__________________
"I am the wrath of God. The earth I pass will see me and tremble." -Klaus Kinski as Don Lope de Aguirre

KnifeMissile

I think I understood your meaning and intention. The question is, did you understand mine?

shakran

This is the legacy that political correctness has wrought. I knew we were in trouble years ago when I covered the appointment process for a superintendent of schools. All the candidates were men, yet one idiot on the committee flew into a rage when someone mentioned the qualifications "he" should have. I saw then that we were on the path toward language that must not offend, even if in order to avoid offense we must be inaccurate in the language.

It started innocently enough at first - people tired of saying "he or she" every 5 seconds replaced it with "they" even if the subject was a single person.

Now we've gotten to the point where simply saying what you mean, even if none of the words are offensive, can get you fired simply because some brainless fool decided to take offense anyway.

Why do stories like this piss me off so much? Because it's absolutely ridiculous that I risk my career every time I open my mouth because I never know when some mockery-of-Darwin might be in the audience and decide to get offended.

Sultana

Well, criticizing/evaluating/debating what someone has to say does not automatically imply an attack.

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

ratbastid

As one of the people participating in the discussion here, I can say, I haven't felt even a little bit "attacked" in this thread, and it was never my intention to "attack" anybody. There's nothing personal here. There's some disagreement and discussion, but it's totally not personal. I think of shakran as a buddy, and I've got room for my buddies to disagree with me.

Of course, when they do, they're wrong...

Sultana

Ahh, my darling little ratbastid, I did not think you guilty of attacking.

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

KnifeMissile

Indeed, I really wasn't implying that it did...

Bill O'Rights

And, in my not so humble opinion, many could stand to benefit from embracing this little bit of imparted wisdom.

Well said, Sultana. Well said.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Eweser

Benefit of the doubt doens't seem to be given like it used to. It's not "innocent until proved guilty" anymore, it's "guilty until proven innocent and then you still might be doubted".

Most of the time, it seems to me, that people are looking for something to get offended about, and want to be the first person to bring "into the light" for their 15 minutes in the spotlight (however large or small that spotlight might be).

__________________
"Whoever wrote this episode should die!"

Gilda

I still see it as a bit different. Yes, this fellow should have been able to use "niggardly" without repercussion, and those objecting should have dropped the objection as soon as it became apparent that they were the ones in error. I agree completely.

But this is a person in a situation where a little forethought would have seen that this innocent mistake was one that held the potential for the very good possibility that the word would be mistaken as being or being related to "nigger".

With "call a spade a spade", there is no parallel because "spade" is not primarily, on its face, a pejorative. I'd never heard it used in that way before this thread. The pejorative would be a tertiary meaning, with the primary being shovel and the secondary being the shovel-shaped pips on playing cards.

That said, I'll probably avoid using that particular phrase because of its potential to cause offense, not that I ever have that I remember.

Gilda

__________________
I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that.

~Steven Colbert

KnifeMissile

Just so you know, the saying "call a spade a spade" is based on the fact that a spade is not a shovel...

flstf

I agree. I also think that the more racist one is, the more likely the word niggardly will be perceived to be a racial slur.

I have to laugh when I think of what those offended must have thought. Did they think he was saying that the miserly funding was characteristic of black people so he used a racial slur to get his point across in the meeting? They must have little regard for this man to assume he would insult them this way.

Sultana

I have to imagine the offended parties didn't remotely consider the context. One word was heard, and nothing else mattered after that.

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

Lindy

Perhaps he (Mr. Howard) should have told them not to get their knickers in a bunch. Or, would that have been offensive as well? I doubt that that crowd (the Mayor's ignorant and poorly educated but probably perfectly diverse staff) would give a white person the benefit of the doubt about some word that just sounded offensive. When it comes to race, white people are always guilty until proven innocent.
Lindy

KnifeMissile is correct,a spade is not a shovel. A spade is pointed, a shovel is not. That is because a spade is for digging. A shovel is for, well, shoveling. Anyone who has done much of either knows the difference. I guess education is where you find it. As a girl growing up on a farm, I knew that difference long before I had a high school diploma, bachelor's or master's degree.