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Old 10-21-2006, 11:20 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Chivalry: Another lost art?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deltona Couple

As far as Chivalry is concerned Sugah, It is not dead as long as I have a breath left in my lungs.
And it might just go out with our generation Deltona. I think it was heading there at the beginning of our generation actually.

Here is the definition of chivalry: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=chivalry

Since we are now in a more modern world I guess the meaning of the word chivalry would come close to this now:

Quote:
courtesy towards women
A few other words that were attached to chivalry were words like, gallantry, honor, generosity, bravery and valor.

I have found that there is one form of service that actually still practices this, and it's the Marines. And I'm sure some of the other services might, but because I have a son-in-law that is in the Marines, I've seen first hand how gallant, courageous and brave these men are. And they still practice such polite manners that most society never uses anymore.

I'm not sure if it was just the womens liberation that solely changed this ideal that women were to be treated equally. I think most of these changes are not really related to either man or woman. You have to remember that technology has been the fasted moving change that has really boomed in the last 50 yrs and is only moving faster. We have become more dependent on technology than any other living source other than water and food.

I personally find it very nice that a young man will open a door for another woman or young lady. But, it's very rare that you see a man/gentleman let a lady have his seat in a doctor's office or any other type of waiting area so she can sit. This is a prime example of chivalry. I think we all play a part in politeness. And I think that is becoming rare in not only women, men.........but in our own children. My children still say, "Yes ma'am/no ma'am/yes sir/no sir." I still practice this myself. Polite manners are just one of the many things that both sexes should practice.

But, now I find that the old fashioned word, such as chivalry, is not considered something in a young man's dictionary. The best model a young girl can have is a father that opens the door for her mother, or classmate who gallantly takes the arm of a young girl at a football homecoming game from having to walk on the field alone because her date didn't show up, or an older gentleman that still has the love in his eyes and the utmost respect for a wife of over 65 yrs at their wedding anniversary by seating her first, pushing in her chair, and then sits himself.

Oh, you say, "But, that happens today." Does it? Maybe it does. Maybe young men are showing respect to their mothers because they had fathers that showed their mothers respect. I know some of you men, or even women, are saying women should be showing respect, I totally agree! And that would be what ladies are to do also. **smirkes**

But, this is about chivalry. It all started a long time ago. Where men were gallant, brave, courageous, courteous, and noble. Is it just that? An old fashioned word for another era gone by? And men should now look at women like themselves---same counterparts? Oh man, I hope this never happens!! LOL! I kinda like smelling different, being softer.........being FEMALE. I'm sorry guys and dolls....but I WANT to be different from men! I want to be held by a strong arm, I like that he smells different from me! I even like that he can be stronger than me. And if I cry, I WANT him to tell me it's okay and hold me while I do. AND that even though I cry, he doesn't think it's a display of my weakness nor does he care but only knows that I just need comforting...........and takes great pride in knowing I am different from him and he finds that he loves this difference in me.

Chivalry. Who practices that anymore? Is it just another lost art that was practiced back through the past? What are your comments to the word chivalry?
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Old 10-21-2006, 12:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I practice it daily. Though I do believe it to be a dying art.
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Old 10-21-2006, 01:11 PM   #3 (permalink)
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What about courtesy towards men? Women are all about equality right? Who's going to hold my door open? Fuck chivalry. It's an outdated concept that should no longer be followed, because women are not princesses. They should not be held up on a pedestal, because they are not any better than men. If women want men to follow the code of chivalry, then women had better get back in the damn kitchen and do nothing except look pretty for guys, because that's what they did in the Middle Ages and chivalry is a medieval concept.


I do, however, practice common courtesy everyday.

Last edited by Carno; 10-21-2006 at 01:15 PM..
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Old 10-21-2006, 01:19 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Ancient Chivalry was reputed to be about the weak protecting the strong, the rich the poor, the educated the unenlghtened, and so on.

By that definition, I try to practice chivalry a lot - I try to help them weaker than me in resorces, in intilect, in training.

I also open doors for women.

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Old 10-21-2006, 01:28 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I do not practice it I live it. I'm honest about everything; I'm loyal, dependable, responsible and respectful. I believe the problem is people have not given up on the chivalry but moreso the idea of respect; too many people in this world seem to believe that respect can be demanded rather then earned;however, all of these qualities make me a nice guy... which means I still lose in the end.
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Old 10-21-2006, 01:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
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If chivalry isn't dead yet, I hope it dies very soon.

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Old 10-21-2006, 03:03 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I think Karno hit the nail on the head. I find that most women are pretty rude towards men and expect alot of unreasonable things. Like they can hit a man for being rude and its fine. I think they get away with alot simply because they are women. I think equal rights has gone a little far and women can get away with pretty much anything just because they are women.

But personaly I start out polite to everyone I meet and depending on how you treat me may change how I act towards you. I love doing things for my woman though, I will open all her doors, I will stand on the side closest to traffic so that she doesn't have to. Stuff like that.
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Old 10-21-2006, 03:26 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I practice Bushido. It's like chivalry with katanas.
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Old 10-21-2006, 04:26 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Chivalry is dead-- And women killed it.
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Old 10-21-2006, 04:28 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I know I cant be the only woman in the world that appreciates things like that
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Old 10-21-2006, 04:41 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Of course you appreciate it, who wouldn't? Women don't have to do anything other than have a twat between their legs and then they can expect men to do things for them. Sounds pretty good to me.
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Old 10-21-2006, 04:53 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carno
Of course you appreciate it, who wouldn't? Women don't have to do anything other than have a twat between their legs and then they can expect men to do things for them. Sounds pretty good to me.
Yeesh. You kiss your mother with that mouth?

Also, where else would a 'twat' be located?
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Old 10-21-2006, 05:29 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Im trying really hard not to be offended by that comment


Its not working
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Old 10-21-2006, 05:53 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Hey guys, let's keep it civil in here. ^^V

I believe the issue with chivalry is that it is not uniformly accepted. One might practice chilvarous behavior with his ex girlfriend and be rewarded by a thank you and such, however, with another girl, practicing chivalry may end up getting him scolded. Thus, for us men, who know when to practice it, and when not to?

Personally, I like to do it, the majority of women I have gone out with appreciate it. It's nothing serious, less of an "I think guys should protect/provide for girls" than a "sweet something."

My 2 cents.
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Old 10-21-2006, 07:43 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I practice it from time to time. And by that, I mean that I forget to do so most of the time. Like opening doors for gals, I forget to do that all the time. In fact, I'm learning to appreciate having gals open the door for me. There also seems to be this subtle race to the door...

Lately, I've noticed that in the work place, some people don't practice it if it's part of a woman's job. Like this one time I was working in a warehouse, none of the gals want you to lift anything for them, unless it's too heavy for just one person. This one gal in particular, every time she asked me to move a large package (which happened to be the heaviest things I've ever had to lift), it was so hard for her to ask. Like she was asking if she could borrow my car and keep it.

On the other hand, when I was working in the mall, this one gal was recently promoted from secretary to a manager. She saw me pass by the office and asked if I could help her move her effects to her new office. Now all her stuff was in a box that was smaller than a micowave, and it held 2 mugs, a few pens, some hand lotion, and a box of tissue with a pink knitted cover on it. Sure, she could have carried it herself in one hand, but I had a moment, so I "helped" her out.
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Old 10-21-2006, 08:10 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The whole "who opens the door" thing seems laughable today and you really need to take that issue in the context of the 60's and 70's. Small civil gestures (not to be confused with "Chivalry") were routinely accorded to the "weaker sex". In order to confront the entire patriarchal society within which women lived, baby steps were necessary. I am capable was addressed in so many small ways that eventually led to serious changes in the treatment of women where it mattered most; economically, politically, educational opportunities, and entry into a much broader range of job market opportunities. And yet, women still earn less than men with the same qualifications, for the same job.

Is there a single woman here at tfp that personally fought for the equal treatment of women? Is there a single woman here that would trade the progress of women's rights since the 60's-70's, for the "chivalry" of an opened door?"

I can't believe so much is now being taken for granted by the young women of the current generation. The petulance of the young men that don't believe they are shown sufficient respect by women is another surprise. Dayum, people, you get what you give.

I honestly do not see much self-respect, and rarely mutual respect, among many of the members of tfp. Well, this post has likely pissed off everyone. A deserving response to the OP, in my opinion.
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Old 10-22-2006, 12:10 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Women are not women anymore. They are men with a vagina. That is what we are taught. Thank you womens rights parade you ruined the fun of being different sexes. Now it's just fucking and who gets to wash the dishes after sunday dinner.

Womens rights say women are equal but then you look at these things.

open the door for us
we want different sports
we want to get more free money for college
we want to get hired instead of men

I say unisex bathrooms. Dress like 1984 Macintosh commercial. If we're gonna do it let's do it all the way. LETS BE EQUAL

This is what I hear from the news and from some women. I have also heard women I know say 'men are just better than women' which shocked me and I don't fully agree with. I would like it to be where women do what they are meant to do and men do what they are meant to do. If you're thinking "well what do you think men and women are meant to do?" I think they are meant to do what they did up until 1960's America for thousands of years. But to my disappointment I do not live in those times so until we are there; you are men with vaginas to me. So much for chivalry. Open your own door thanks.
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Old 10-22-2006, 06:30 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Wow. I had no idea there was such bitterness towards the "weaker" sex. **smirkes**

In this world today it is all about "Me, Me, Me". I really didn't notice it until around the late 80's and early 90's. Because of this, and it all can't be blamed on either sex, because both of them are the product of this. So now we have the breakdown of what was defined as a "traditional" family. That is no longer common ground anymore.

As a few commented, the traditional family went out pretty much in the 1960's. My father was a farmer. Pretty traditional. My mother stayed home with my brothers and I until I was in the second grade. Farming was not going to provide what the family seemed to need alone. So, my mother went to work.
The same for myself, I was working when I met the Boss, had our two children, and I'm still working.

By some of your responses above, I'm amazed at how women are described today. It seems that some of the world has a jagged edged sword. I'm not sure if it's the climate in which you live or because you are surrounded by a different environment than some of us. Interesting though.

I'm all for progress. But something so simple as common curtesey, to simply vanish in todays society towards each other, is very saddening. When I help an older woman with her groceries or an older man with the door, I feel great. If I live long enough, that will be me oneday. By the comments made from a younger generation, I guess I will be on my own.

Elphaba asked if there were any of us single women from the 60's and 70's that are posting here. I am a youth from that generation. I'm not single, but then again, I didn't choose to be. The only kind of sign I ever carried during a protest, not that it was a protest--but more of an awareness of a bygone era, was a sign that read: "I'm proud to be the daughter of a farmer." But, then again, my father was a great example to my brothers, me, to my daughter and son, and also to my husband. I'm hoping that it doesn't die with my children or my chidren's children.

We all set examples to someone. Hopefully, I will always set a good example. I once asked my teenage children, after having a disagreement with the boss about who was the head of the household, "Who is the boss in this house? Who has the final say? Who do you think is the leader of this family?" Neither child paused. "Daddy is Mama." I laughed at the look on their father's face. It was priceless. Just because he wasn't home much, for he worked out of town most of my children's growing years, he thought he wasn't a part of our family. That answer gave him more than just a label, that showed him he was very much loved and respected.

I've not asked the boss what I mean to him. I don't need to. I know I am respected for more than just having a vagina.
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Old 10-22-2006, 07:12 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I hold the door for everyone--male, female, transgendered and misgendered. What I find amusing is how some (not all) people ignore me when I do it. It's even funnier when I'm at the movies and after the movie dozens of people file past LOOKING DIRECTLY AT ME and don't offer to take over or even hold the door while they pass through so that I can go catch up with my wife who is standing on the sidewalk laughing at me.
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Old 10-22-2006, 07:15 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I'm not bitter towards women at all. I am courteous to all people, and I hold the door and give up my seat because I want to be nice, not because of some medieval concept that says I have to be extra nice to a certain group of people because they have a vagina and are the weaker sex (ie chivalry).

I hope when you say chivalry that you really mean common courtesy. I will purposely close the door on any woman who thinks that I should do anything for them simply based on their sex. I do things that are nice because I want to be nice, not because of chivalry. I don't owe women anything. I choose to be nice to people because it's the right thing to do.

If you really want chivalry and you really want to be treated as the weaker sex then fine, but you are pretty much saying you don't give a shit about women's equality or what many women fought for in the 60's and 70's.
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Old 10-22-2006, 07:25 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I would be content with just experiencing plain old good manners, much less chivalry.

Chivalry is a word heavy with subjective meanings, as well as the dictionary definition.

Chivalry (in my mind) goes over and above good manners. It's nice, but not needed. Manners, on the other hand, are sorely missed (as adequately illustrated in this thread). I would never expect anyone to offer me assistance soley based on my sex. And I definitely wouldn't want anyone to offer me *anything* motivated by any sense of obligation, rather than a sincere desire to help a person out who may need a hand.

I think that along with a break down in *chivalry* or manners, there is also a correlating break down in graciousness on the side of the person to whom the assistance is being offered. There are as many reasons for this as for the initial case, but I think it boils down to suspicion of motives. However, at some point one needs to grow past that. On both sides, but mostly I'd think it's the on the person receiving the manners.

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Old 10-22-2006, 07:36 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I am shocked (though I shouldn't be) at the anger many men have towards women.

I could care less about defining it with words like Chivalry, etc. but I do open doors for women, I open the car door for them, offer to carry their bags, etc.

I do this *not* because they are weaker or because they demand it. I do it because it is the courteous thing to do. I will also hold the door for a man, though I will not make as much of an effort to do so.

I think it's just rude to get to the door first only to dart in ahead of someone else.
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Last edited by Charlatan; 10-22-2006 at 08:00 AM..
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Old 10-22-2006, 07:41 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanblah
I hold the door for everyone--male, female, transgendered and misgendered. What I find amusing is how some (not all) people ignore me when I do it. It's even funnier when I'm at the movies and after the movie dozens of people file past LOOKING DIRECTLY AT ME and don't offer to take over or even hold the door while they pass through so that I can go catch up with my wife who is standing on the sidewalk laughing at me.
Aaawww. And I bet that is just ONE of the many things she loves about you too!

I know what you mean Vanblah. When you do this, notice their faces. Are they blank? When they file past, do they even smile and say, "thank you"?

Not long ago, I was going into a convenient store. I had my dag gum purse upside down and the latch was open. ALL of my stuff fell out right at the door! JEEZE! Which means I'm in the way of traffic! A few go in annoyed, or either stepping around me, until a man in his 50's kneels down and offers to help me. I grin and say, "Thank you so much. Things like this happen to me alot. I'm a klutz!" He grinned and said, "You are welcome." I looked up and around as still a few are stepping around us both now and I stood up and looked to my gallant savior and said, "I so much appreciate this. It's embarrassing enough to have your stuff all out there, but to happen in a public place and be in the way, is worse!" I'm laughing and he said once again, "You are quite welcome." He then opened the door and waited until I went in first. About a month later, this same man comes to our house with a few of the guys that work with my husband. I looked at him and he at me. I then started laughing and said, "Aaaah.........my gallant knight." He threw back his head and really laughed. The boss asked, "I see you have met my wife. What did she do this time?" I stuck my tongue out at the boss while the rest of the guys were laughing.

Vanblah, what I did notice when I emptied out most of my purse that day was that there were more guys my age and maybe a few years younger. But, yet........a man older than me was the one that took the time to help me. But, I have had a few youth (younger than my kids) offer to open doors when my arms are loaded and even times when I am empty-handed. But, you are right, not many acknowledge it. But, I sure do!! I've said a many of time, "Why thank you. You are a gentleman." And if a young girl/woman should help, I acknowledge them also. But, what started as just "common curtesey", probably was expected many years ago. Whereas today, since it's not a common reflex, we notice when people do acknowledge it.
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Old 10-22-2006, 07:52 AM   #24 (permalink)
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whew, I'm glad I read to the bottom of this thread. A lot of the earlier posts were quite offensive.

The last few posts describe me perfectly. I have to say, Vanblah, that happens to me all the time. They'll even make eye contact and just walk by with nary a word. Always wish I could pick them out earlier and let the door go right when they come through, lol.

As Carno said, chivalry is the idea that women deserve to be treated a certain way because they are women. It's like saying you can't do anything for yourself. Honestly, why should I have to push your chair in? Just seems rediculous to me. If I get to a door first I'll hold it open, but you'd better not wait at the door for me to hold it open or I'll just walk through. That seems rude to me. "Hi, I'm a woman, and instead of opening the door for you I'm going to stand here and wait for you to get here and open the door for me because I'm special." I give up my seat on buses and trains all the time, for older(read elderly, people who actually look like they need to sit down, not a 50 year old that looks like he could bench me ^_^ ) people, or people with children, or people carrying lots of stuff, but don't expect me to give up my seat to a woman who can just as well stand on her own.

Common courtesy is something I do on a daily basis, and by the way, I'm 20, so don't think it's dieing out quite yet. I think it has a lot to do with how you are raised. I don't beleive that people are preprogrammed to go out of their way for others. It's something that has to be taught.
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Old 10-22-2006, 08:13 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elphaba
. And yet, women still earn less than men with the same qualifications, for the same job.
This is a fallacy.

Chivalry seems really good in theory. Who wouldn't be for treating women nicely? The issue is, chivalry (assuming we aren't actually talking about knights, lol) is about specifically treating women in a certain courteous manner, a manner one would not afford a man. The fight to have equality in the sexes is a really good thing, but you can't have it both ways. Chivalry was a form of protection society had for women because they were seen as less important and capable as men.

If you think they are as capable and important as men, you shouldn't demean them by treating them differently. It's especially bad for women to declare themselves equal to men, then try and throw the "oh-I'm-a-girl help me flag". That is what Carno was alluding to.

That said, I practice something I call courtesy. I hold doors for women, but it's okay because I do the same for men.
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Old 10-22-2006, 09:37 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Im feeling quite a bit twitchy about the hostility.... my ignore finger is itchin pretty good...

Heres how it works. You treat your women well and we will be there to return the favor by giving you back rubs and scratchin your various itches. If a man ever talked to me like that in real life...... Gods have mercy on him cause I know I wouldnt!
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Old 10-22-2006, 10:01 AM   #27 (permalink)
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wow, this thread was very interesting, there seems to be a lot of deep seated feelings and some that I happen to agree with. Carno, you make a good point, although your delivery was eye-catching

I will point out that I can see the point that, at a basic level when this concept of Chivalry began, the thought of getting sex from one gender did equate to "I should be nicer to this gender so I can get said sexual favors" Also, it was part of the culture... women were meant to be "taken care of" women were meant to "be held up, be coddled etc." We can't keep that part of the culture without having the other parts that kept Chivalry in place... which was the fact that women were not viewed as equals...

as for myself,
I don't expect anything special because I'm a woman. I do like common courtesy though and I myself try to be kind to everyone which is not related to gender.

I do think Chivalry is dead, at least, i don't feel it has much place in our society, I do think common courtesy seems to be on it's way out sometimes, but each of us can act differently to change that.

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Old 10-22-2006, 10:20 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Old 10-22-2006, 10:24 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Sage
Heres how it works. You treat your women well and we will be there to return the favor by giving you back rubs and scratchin your various itches.
Wait, wait, wait. Let me get this straight. If I give a man back rubs and sex and cook him food, he will hold doors for me and shield my frailty from world? Why didn't they tell me this when I was a kid?! I wouldn't have worked so hard for so long to be responsible for myself.
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Old 10-22-2006, 10:24 AM   #30 (permalink)
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*Sigh* Pan knows what chivalry is and he also knows the rewards of having it including back rubs, scalp rubs and scratches and mass amounts of cuddling and sex from a woman who knows she is not only well loved but appreciated as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supple Cow
Wait, wait, wait. Let me get this straight. If I give a man back rubs and sex and cook him food, he will hold doors for me and shield my frailty from world? Why didn't they tell me this when I was a kid?! I wouldn't have worked so hard for so long to be responsible for myself.
No kidding! Here I had been working my butt off to be independant just to find out that its ok to lean on another person. Its actually quite nice! (Of course it doesnt always work that way... there are the people on the planet that dont appreciate crap and I wouldnt pee on if they were on fire to put them out but that extends to both sexes.)
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Last edited by Lady Sage; 10-22-2006 at 10:26 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 10-22-2006, 10:34 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Sage
No kidding! Here I had been working my butt off to be independant just to find out that its ok to lean on another person. Its actually quite nice! (Of course it doesnt always work that way... there are the people on the planet that dont appreciate crap and I wouldnt pee on if they were on fire to put them out but that extends to both sexes.)
I seriously hope you're being facetious. You can't really expect me to hand my life over to cooking and spreading my legs in hopes that one day some man will take care of everything and let me idle so as not to hurt my pretty little head trying to be a responsible human being. I was thinking my sarcasm may have been over the line and that I would have a warning coming to me, but this is entirely unexpected. Your response is truly frightening.
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Old 10-22-2006, 10:39 AM   #32 (permalink)
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I open the door for women. Not because they are ladies, but because I am a gentleman.
I will also open/hold the door for men, children and large dogs. If I'm part of a crowd I will stand there holding the door until some like minded individual (male or female) Says "I've got it' and takes over. I don't do it because they expect me too. I do it because I expect me to.

Of course I'm one of those weird medieval re-creationist so my views might be biased.
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Old 10-22-2006, 10:53 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Sage
*Sigh* Pan knows what chivalry is and he also knows the rewards of having it including back rubs, scalp rubs and scratches and mass amounts of cuddling and sex from a woman who knows she is not only well loved but appreciated as well.
I dunno, I get that stuff and I'm very much "on the level" with my woman.
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Old 10-22-2006, 11:04 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Everyone is different and not everyone appreciates the same thing.
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Old 10-22-2006, 11:08 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carno
What about courtesy towards men? Women are all about equality right? Who's going to hold my door open? Fuck chivalry. It's an outdated concept that should no longer be followed, because women are not princesses. They should not be held up on a pedestal, because they are not any better than men. If women want men to follow the code of chivalry, then women had better get back in the damn kitchen and do nothing except look pretty for guys, because that's what they did in the Middle Ages and chivalry is a medieval concept.


I do, however, practice common courtesy everyday.
The instant you expect something different because oh-my-gosh you're a woman, I'm going to slam the fucking door on you. You're either equal or you're not. Just because you have The Magical Vagina doesn't make you any different.
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Old 10-22-2006, 11:16 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Sage
Everyone is different and not everyone appreciates the same thing.
Well, that is a handy tautology, but it's still pretty disturbing in the context of what you said earlier. Maybe you're just not realizing the implications of what you're saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Sage
Here I had been working my butt off to be independant just to find out that its ok to lean on another person.
Sure it's okay to lean on another person, but why should you expect everyone around you who happens to be male to treat you a certain way just because you are female? While I'm on the subject of the above statement, how was it that you just found out that something is okay for you? Why is it that you didn't always determine that for yourself?

This is the real crime that has been perpetrated against women, and it wasn't just the men who did it. Today, the men barely even participate in it. I didn't wait for somebody to tell me it was "okay" to take care of myself. I'm not going to wait for somebody to tell me that it's "okay" to depend a little on my SO if that is what we decide is best for us each. I'm not ungrateful either - I know when I am receiving help and I express my thanks. But I also know that when I receive it from my current SO, he does it because he wants to help me. He extends me little courtesies because he has manners. He goes out of his way for me out of love and not some twisted sense of stewardship implying that I am incapable of doing things myself.
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Old 10-22-2006, 11:24 AM   #37 (permalink)
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I learned at a young age to "Treat other people how you would like to be treated" and that's how I try to live my life - it's easy to live that way and it's usually polite. I hold doors for people (all people) because it's polite and I would like them to hold doors for me.

I agree with most of the posters here who have said that chivalry is dead and deservedly so. That is because I tend to associate chivalry with treating women a certain way because they are weak and need taking care of. I don't believe women are weak or have a need to be taken care of, thus they get no special treatment from me above how I already treat everyone else. I hold doors for men, I hold doors for women. If a man drops a bag of stuff on the ground I'll help him pick it up as readily as I'll help a woman pick her dropped items up.

Now this is just a generality. Obviously we all hold our mothers, sisters and wives up higher than we hold other women.

I also liked this line and found it very easy to agree with:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongolguy
I do it because I expect me to.
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Old 10-22-2006, 12:07 PM   #38 (permalink)
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If my post offended anyone it wasn't meant to. I was basicly saying I don't like the way things are. I'm not angry at women.
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Old 10-22-2006, 12:07 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I've never had a woman hold a door open for me, or offer me her seat or even offer to carry my books to class so why should I do the same for a woman?

Like I said earlier, chivalry is dead and women killed it.
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Old 10-22-2006, 12:36 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Chivalry is not a lost art, but what happens is that many guys are too eager to please a woman so they act like a butler and put her on a pedestal...thus they appear weak and turn into wimps.

There's nothing wrong with chivalry, but too many guys either don't practice it at all or else they take it overboard.
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