All Your Handwriting Are Belong to Us! - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

SecretMethod70 · 06-09-2003, 03:06 PM

Seems the end of cursive - or handwriting - is near.What do you think of this? Honestly, I never use cursive for anything besides my signature. Everything else I just print - of course, that's just because I thought it looked better and more clear when I saw my dad writing like that for his job in engineering. Is this something we should care about or do you view it as an acceptable evolution of our communication with the advent of better technology?

Quote:

URL: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in557572.shtml

Penmanship: A Dying Art?
SAN MATEO, Calif., June 9, 2003

Monique McGowan sharpens a No. 2 pencil, straightens her posture and sharply slants her notebook to prepare for her weekly lesson in cursive.

She and other third graders at Horrall Elementary School have perfected ascenders and descenders, and their letters' tails and legs hit the appropriate base lines - even the tricky capitals G, Q and S.

But Monique, who plays games on her dad's laptop at home, says she'd rather punch a keyboard than write cursive.

"Computers are better," the 9-year-old says, blonde pony tail bobbing behind her. "With typing, you don't have to erase when you make a mistake. You just hit delete, so it's a lot easier."

Such attitudes are worrying to a growing number of parents, educators and historians, who fear that computers are speeding the demise of a uniquely American form of expression. Handwriting experts fear that the wild popularity of e-mail, instant messages and other electronic communication, particularly among kids, could erase cursive within a few decades.

At technology-savvy Horrall Elementary - where students take keyboard lessons in third grade, precisely when they learn cursive - Monique's teacher, Ed Boell, is fighting the trend. He refuses to give extra points when students turn in laser-printed homework assignments with fancy computer fonts, and he urges kids to send handwritten letters to parents and friends.

Still, about half his students use computers for some assignments, up every year since the late 1990s. He ends his cursive lesson with a warning:

"The truth is, boys and girls, even if you write a lot of e-mail on the computer, you will always need to write things down on paper at some point in your life," Boell says. "The letters you write to people are beautiful, and they'll cherish them forever. Have any of you ever received an e-mail that you cherished?"

The students eagerly shout, "No!" and return to loops and curves.

Since switching from print to the more free-flowing handwriting earlier this year, Boell's students are writing faster and more legibly.

But in many other classrooms, traditional cursive is on its way out. So many students have trouble with it that teachers are increasingly adopting a simpler style known as Italic or "print cursive."

Online discussion forums for teachers estimate that as many as 7 percent of third graders are using Italic, whose printed letters are "semi-connected" with small tails. It's not as loopy or slanted as the 20th-century style developed by Austin Norman Palmer and adopted as a standard in schools nationwide.

Sue Bolton at Kings Mountain Elementary School in Woodside teaches the Palmer Method to her second- and third-graders, but many of her students turn in homework with touches of Italic they've picked up from siblings or other teachers.

"They've got good handwriting now, and they love cursive," Bolton says as her students filter in from recess. "But it wouldn't surprise me if they just walked around with their little keyboards and typed everything a few years from now."

According to the National Telecommunications and Information Administration, 90 percent of Americans between the ages of 5 and 17 use computers. It's not uncommon for kids to type 20 or 30 words per minute by the time they leave elementary school.

The trend pervades Silicon Valley, where many schools have computer labs and kids gravitate toward careers in the computer industry. But some say students' struggles with cursive have reached alarming proportions nationwide.

Michael Sull, a 54-year-old artist in Overland Park, Kan., says today's third graders have not developed proper forearm and hand musculature, seated posture or mental discipline. The former president of the International Association of Master Penmen, Engrossers and Teachers of Handwriting says keyboards, joysticks and cell phone touch pads have ruined kids' ability to hold a pencil properly, let alone write legibly.

"Penmanship these days is thought of as a vestigial organ because it's not translated into dollars, like computer skills," says Sull, who honed his writing skills under Paul O'Hara, a pre-eminent 20th century penman.

"If you need to relay information immediately and have just a half-second to grab anything, maybe just a napkin, penmanship is so valuable," Sull says. "It doesn't rely on batteries or power. It's like breathing - it's always with you."

Parents who pride themselves on their penmanship often bemoan their children's cursive - particularly when they can't read sloppy notes or notice that their kids increasingly turn in homework via e-mail. Many adults pine for a return to the Palmer Method or even its fancier predecessor, Spencerian.

"Cursive was so character-defining when I was in school," says Amy Greene, whose 9-year-old daughter and 11-year-old son prefer keyboards to cursive in their Palo Alto classrooms. "The way you wrote something was considered part of your inner being, your core, your worth. ... Now it's considered an anachronism."

Cursive's ultimate fate is unknown. Few statistics mark its demise. Some passionate penmen say it won't go the way of the feather quill pen, noting that the style survived electric typewriters.

Nabeel Khaliq, an 11-year-old sixth-grader from Mississauga, Ontario, comes from a family of cursive enthusiasts and can't imagine not writing. He took first place in his age category in the 2002 World Handwriting Contest, sponsored by the Albany, N.Y.-based Handwriting for Humanity club.

"It must be a natural thing that my family has, except for my brother," Nabeel says. "I write all of my rough drafts by hand."

Still, Nabeel's cursive is rivaled only by his typing. He types 40 words per minute - he was the fastest typist in fifth grade, a close second this year to a classmate who hit 50 words per minute.

"I e-mail my cousins in Pakistan and chat on MSN," Nabeel said, referring to Microsoft's popular instant messenger service. "If I had the choice, I'd rather do it on the computer."

krwlz · 06-09-2003, 03:28 PM

I honestly dont see the problem...

Tom Thumb · 06-09-2003, 03:41 PM

Oh, it's awful, just awful. We'll lose sight of the past without cursive! While we're at it, we'd better start using fountain pens again, travelling by horse drawn carriages, and owning slaves. That's really what you're saying, isn't it, cbs?

weedline · 06-09-2003, 04:08 PM

A well writen letter in cursive is art.
When an art dies we lose and that is sad.

ARTelevision · 06-09-2003, 04:34 PM

yeah, that's fine.
as a craft, it will be preserved by craftspeople.

good enough for me.

JStrider · 06-09-2003, 04:51 PM

i learned cursive in 3rd grade... and was so bad at it that the teachers asked me to write in print so they could read it...

gibber71 · 06-09-2003, 05:15 PM

It doesn't really affect or bother me since I'm like JStrider,I don't think I have used cursive since the third grade. I used to laugh in lectures because people would be writing their little hearts out while my printing was like a speed machine. Now if I could just learn to type with more than one finger.

Orionath · 06-09-2003, 05:25 PM

I remember getting such an inferiority complex from my cursive writing classes that I would always block when I had to write essays -- especially in "creative writing" class. It wasn't until I discovered computers and word processing programs that I was able to actually write and express myself. On the other hand, some people have beautiful handwriting and some people have beautiful calligraphy script. As an art and a mode of self-expression, I'm sure that cursive writing will survive. As a required tool for communication? I doubt it. And no big loss for me, personally.

spectre · 06-09-2003, 05:54 PM

I can't read my own writing in cursive. I have to print all of my class notes otherwise I won't know what the hell I've written down.

rogue49 · 06-09-2003, 06:21 PM

When I get bored, I write in cursive.
And so, it's not only legible but pretty decent.

heck, it takes me too long to write anyway,
so I might as well make it look good.

You should see my sig...like fuckin' John Hancock.

krwlz · 06-09-2003, 06:31 PM

My cursive is absolutly horrible. I can't even remember some of the letters! Takes me easily twice as long.

Miekle · 06-09-2003, 06:45 PM

Everyones writing is different and personalized, cursive is even more so that way and sometimes horibly hard to read. When you connect stuf they just start looking all mushed together, and when people have thier own way of dealling with things its that much more hard to read. I kinda feel like half of my schooling was a ripp off learning how to write in cursive expecialy since college papers and anything done in college is all turned in typed from the computer.

Cumhachd · 06-09-2003, 06:52 PM

I never used cursive, just my own mess that even I couldn't read sometimes. A couple of years ago, though, I decided to find some neat-looking styles and adopt them. It's kind of fun, and gives you a distinctive style.

oblar · 06-09-2003, 09:23 PM

I stopped using cursive completely in about 5th grade, when it was no longer required. Main reasons for this switch was due to speed and legibility. I can write in print a lot faster than I ever was able to in cursive, and very few people have trouble reading my print, whereas only a handful can read my cursive.

Now though, it is more the fact I don't remember over half of the letters in cursive. I can still read cursive fine, but when I sit down to write it, the main letters I know how to write are in my signature. Funny thing is, my signature is god awful.. I would love to make it look a little prettier, but I don't even finish most of the letters.. slashes here, etc all done. The point is, I do know all of the cursive letters in my name even if I don't use them*grin*

i don't really consider this a problem.. I think it will go the way of calligraphy if anything.. calligraphy is an art and beautiful at that. I would much rather learn calligraphy than cursive now-a-days.

Double D · 06-09-2003, 10:16 PM

I have terrible penmanship and I took a lot of grief about it from my anal-retentive teachers becuz most girls write quite legibly (or they did at the time).
I don't care if it dies out. The only words I write in cursive are my sig.

Halx · 06-09-2003, 10:28 PM

even my signature is scrawled in horrible print, wtf makes you think anything I write in cursive is *beautiful*

MrFlux · 06-09-2003, 10:42 PM

Quote:

...who fear that computers are speeding the demise of a uniquely American form of expression

Umm exactly what uniquely American form of expression are they talking about here?

Bill O'Rights · 06-10-2003, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by spectre
I can't read my own writing in cursive. I have to print all of my class notes otherwise I won't know what the hell I've written down.

And here I thought I was the only dweeb that couldn't read his own handwriting. I love it!

absorbentishe · 06-10-2003, 05:03 AM

If cursive is self expression, I would hate to see how some people live. I have to decipher people's cursive handwritting at work, and 90% of the time, it takes 2, 3 or 4 different people to figure it out. Mine would be that bad too, but I started typing in 4th grade, and thanks to the typewriter (I'm showing my age) and the PC, I almost exclusively type. When I was in school, I would use a mixture of print/cursive, and I couldn't figure out the cursive to save my life, but that was me. There is always some girl that I could borrow notes from to figure out the scribble.

denim · 06-10-2003, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SecretMethod70
Seems the end of cursive - or handwriting - is near.What do you think of this? Honestly, I never use cursive for anything besides my signature. Everything else I just print - of course, that's just because I thought it looked better and more clear when I saw my dad writing like that for his job in engineering. Is this something we should care about or do you view it as an acceptable evolution of our communication with the advent of better technology?

I gave up on cursive as soon as the test on it in 3rd grade was over. I could have told them this literally 30 years ago. I learned to type after 6th grade and I print everything else except my signature, which is unreadable.

What they're really upset with, it seems to me, is the loss of the penmenship skill. People have been writing unreadable cursive since forever. It's not inherently "better". My response to reading that article on CNN.com was to shake my head. In every case listed in that article, they interviewed people who were specifically good at penmenship. There were no exceptions that I recall in that camp. The others, who weren't interested in penmenship, didn't give a rat's ass.

If one of those people whined at me about it, I'd either just nod sympathetically, then roll my eyes, or I'd ask them when they last illuminated a book, or used their horse-drawn sleigh, and what ever would we do now that writers are no longer producing hand-written manuscripts with lots of editing and comments in the margin? Horrors!

It's not a case of "screw'em!", but it is a case of, "no shit, Sherlock", I thought CNN.com reported the news. What's news about something I knew 30 years ago?

denim · 06-10-2003, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ARTelevision
yeah, that's fine.
as a craft, it will be preserved by craftspeople.

good enough for me.

Well said.

BoCo · 06-10-2003, 05:43 AM

When I was in 3rd grade, I had to learn cursive. The teacher said I did such a good job that I rarely had to take the tests that the rest of the class did (subsequently, my scrawny ass got beat even more).

Ever since about Jr. High I haven't written in cursive except for my signature. It's a waste of time and there's really no point in it anymore.

Cynthetiq · 06-10-2003, 06:13 AM

I had to get graded in penmanship in grammar school. While I didn't like it then and I no longer use it daily. I still find myself writing a nice note to say "thank you," or even say, "I love you." seems much prettier in cursive than block.

I think that penmanship can be an important thing, as in the Philippines each school has it's own penmanship style and you can tell what school someone graduated from just by looking at their writing.

BentNotTwisted · 06-10-2003, 07:16 AM

So, what about drug prescriptions? I can't believe I still have to take a hand written note from my doctor to my pharmacist to get a drug prescription filled. I feel like a little kid in school with a permission note. When cursive is no longer taught to all children will doctors and pharmacists continue to use antiquated hand written notes or will they eventually come into the '20th' century and actually use some form of electronic prescriptions?

The death of cursive writing will be a boon to all of us as we age. Just think about it. Eventually, only the geriatric crowd will be able to read and write cursive. We will have our own secret code that the youth of the country won't understand. With the exception of doctors and pharmacists, as they will still be using those little slips of paper!

Gortexfogg · 06-10-2003, 08:00 AM

Cursive can be quicker than print I think. However, those with legible cursive take a long time to write it, and those that can write it fast write it sloppy.
When I learned cursive, my handwriting was so tiny it only became sloppier as I grew up. Now I just stick to print.

Lebell · 06-10-2003, 08:15 AM

A letter, card or note in cursive from a friend or loved one is a joy forever.

It says that they took the time to craft something for you from the heart.

sierra2774 · 06-10-2003, 09:11 AM

I use whatever I feel like at the time, cursive or print...Who really cares anyway?

Peetster · 06-10-2003, 10:02 AM

cursive: I really don't think anyone will miss it. /cursive

CSflim · 06-10-2003, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrFlux
Umm exactly what uniquely American form of expression are they talking about here?

Thats exactly what I was about to point out! Apparently writing in pen is a tradition exclusive to America. What's a pen?

cdwonderful · 06-10-2003, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sierra2774
I use whatever I feel like at the time, cursive or print...Who really cares anyway?

I guess those people who have PLEASE PRINT on their forms...

06-09-2003, 03:41 PM	#3 (permalink)
Tom Thumb Crazy Location: In a self portrait	Oh, it's awful, just awful. We'll lose sight of the past without cursive! While we're at it, we'd better start using fountain pens again, travelling by horse drawn carriages, and owning slaves. That's really what you're saying, isn't it, cbs? __________________ My name is marketing. Now buy my product.

06-09-2003, 04:34 PM	#5 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	yeah, that's fine. as a craft, it will be preserved by craftspeople. good enough for me. __________________ create evolution

06-09-2003, 04:51 PM	#6 (permalink)
JStrider Poo-tee-weet? Location: The Woodlands, TX	i learned cursive in 3rd grade... and was so bad at it that the teachers asked me to write in print so they could read it... __________________ -=JStrider=- ~Clatto Verata Nicto

06-09-2003, 05:25 PM	#8 (permalink)
Orionath Crazy Location: Scapponia	I remember getting such an inferiority complex from my cursive writing classes that I would always block when I had to write essays -- especially in "creative writing" class. It wasn't until I discovered computers and word processing programs that I was able to actually write and express myself. On the other hand, some people have beautiful handwriting and some people have beautiful calligraphy script. As an art and a mode of self-expression, I'm sure that cursive writing will survive. As a required tool for communication? I doubt it. And no big loss for me, personally. __________________ What awful irony is this? We are as gods, but know it not. http://www.pbase.com/procyon_groot&view=recent/

06-09-2003, 05:54 PM	#9 (permalink)
spectre Junkie	I can't read my own writing in cursive. I have to print all of my class notes otherwise I won't know what the hell I've written down. __________________ "Fuck these chains No goddamn slave I will be different" ~ Machine Head

06-09-2003, 03:28 PM	#2 (permalink)
krwlz Fledgling Dead Head Location: Clarkson U.	I honestly dont see the problem...

06-09-2003, 04:08 PM	#4 (permalink)
weedline Upright Location: Fort Lauderdale Florida	A well writen letter in cursive is art. When an art dies we lose and that is sad.

06-09-2003, 05:15 PM	#7 (permalink)
gibber71 Loser	It doesn't really affect or bother me since I'm like JStrider,I don't think I have used cursive since the third grade. I used to laugh in lectures because people would be writing their little hearts out while my printing was like a speed machine. Now if I could just learn to type with more than one finger.

06-09-2003, 06:21 PM	#10 (permalink)
rogue49 Loser	When I get bored, I write in cursive. And so, it's not only legible but pretty decent. heck, it takes me too long to write anyway, so I might as well make it look good. You should see my sig...like fuckin' John Hancock.

06-09-2003, 06:31 PM	#11 (permalink)
krwlz Fledgling Dead Head Location: Clarkson U.	My cursive is absolutly horrible. I can't even remember some of the letters! Takes me easily twice as long.

06-09-2003, 06:45 PM	#12 (permalink)
Miekle Insane Location: your front door...ding dong	Everyones writing is different and personalized, cursive is even more so that way and sometimes horibly hard to read. When you connect stuf they just start looking all mushed together, and when people have thier own way of dealling with things its that much more hard to read. I kinda feel like half of my schooling was a ripp off learning how to write in cursive expecialy since college papers and anything done in college is all turned in typed from the computer.

06-09-2003, 06:52 PM	#13 (permalink)
Cumhachd Upright	I never used cursive, just my own mess that even I couldn't read sometimes. A couple of years ago, though, I decided to find some neat-looking styles and adopt them. It's kind of fun, and gives you a distinctive style. __________________ Sorry, I can only exorcise clam spirits. EbichuMAAN! From the dark end of the dark has been chosen for disipline, from the moon to the stars, no one knows what a justice and earnest shopkeeper then today, the justice maker in tonight by the way, they call it: Ebichuman.

06-09-2003, 09:23 PM	#14 (permalink)
oblar Über-Rookie Location: No longer, D.C	I stopped using cursive completely in about 5th grade, when it was no longer required. Main reasons for this switch was due to speed and legibility. I can write in print a lot faster than I ever was able to in cursive, and very few people have trouble reading my print, whereas only a handful can read my cursive. Now though, it is more the fact I don't remember over half of the letters in cursive. I can still read cursive fine, but when I sit down to write it, the main letters I know how to write are in my signature. Funny thing is, my signature is god awful.. I would love to make it look a little prettier, but I don't even finish most of the letters.. slashes here, etc all done. The point is, I do <b>know</b> all of the cursive letters in my name even if I don't use themgrin i don't really consider this a problem.. I think it will go the way of calligraphy if anything.. calligraphy is an art and beautiful at that. I would much rather learn calligraphy than cursive now-a-days. __________________ "All that we can do is just survive. .All that we can do to help ourselves is stay alive." - Rush

06-09-2003, 10:16 PM	#15 (permalink)
Double D Junkie Location: Chicagoland	I have terrible penmanship and I took a lot of grief about it from my anal-retentive teachers becuz most girls write quite legibly (or they did at the time). I don't care if it dies out. The only words I write in cursive are my sig.

06-09-2003, 10:28 PM	#16 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	even my signature is scrawled in horrible print, wtf makes you think anything I write in cursive is beautiful __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

06-10-2003, 09:11 AM	#27 (permalink)
sierra2774 Addict Location: Northeast Ohio	I use whatever I feel like at the time, cursive or print...Who really cares anyway? __________________ "Every tomorrow brings new opportunities, challenges we must address...A chance to affirm all our wishes and dreams, to seek beauty and true happiness."

06-10-2003, 05:03 AM	#19 (permalink)
absorbentishe Boy am I horny today Location: T O L E D O, Toledo!!	If cursive is self expression, I would hate to see how some people live. I have to decipher people's cursive handwritting at work, and 90% of the time, it takes 2, 3 or 4 different people to figure it out. Mine would be that bad too, but I started typing in 4th grade, and thanks to the typewriter (I'm showing my age) and the PC, I almost exclusively type. When I was in school, I would use a mixture of print/cursive, and I couldn't figure out the cursive to save my life, but that was me. There is always some girl that I could borrow notes from to figure out the scribble.

06-10-2003, 05:43 AM	#22 (permalink)
BoCo Fear the bunny Location: Hanging off the tip of the Right Wing	<font face="bickley script"><b>When I was in 3rd grade, I had to learn cursive. The teacher said I did such a good job that I rarely had to take the tests that the rest of the class did (subsequently, my scrawny ass got beat even more). Ever since about Jr. High I haven't written in cursive except for my signature. It's a waste of time and there's really no point in it anymore.</b></font> __________________ Activism is a way for useless people to feel important. Last edited by BoCo; 06-10-2003 at 05:48 AM..

06-10-2003, 06:13 AM	#23 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	I had to get graded in penmanship in grammar school. While I didn't like it then and I no longer use it daily. I still find myself writing a nice note to say "thank you," or even say, "I love you." seems much prettier in cursive than block. I think that penmanship can be an important thing, as in the Philippines each school has it's own penmanship style and you can tell what school someone graduated from just by looking at their writing. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

06-10-2003, 07:16 AM	#24 (permalink)
BentNotTwisted Optimistic Skeptic Location: Midway between a Beehive and Centennial	So, what about drug prescriptions? I can't believe I still have to take a hand written note from my doctor to my pharmacist to get a drug prescription filled. I feel like a little kid in school with a permission note. When cursive is no longer taught to all children will doctors and pharmacists continue to use antiquated hand written notes or will they eventually come into the '20th' century and actually use some form of electronic prescriptions? The death of cursive writing will be a boon to all of us as we age. Just think about it. Eventually, only the geriatric crowd will be able to read and write cursive. We will have our own secret code that the youth of the country won't understand. With the exception of doctors and pharmacists, as they will still be using those little slips of paper! __________________ IS THAT IT ???!!! Do you even know what 'it' is? When the last man dies for just words that he said... We Shall Be Free

06-10-2003, 08:00 AM	#25 (permalink)
Gortexfogg I and I Location: Stillwater, OK	Cursive can be quicker than print I think. However, those with legible cursive take a long time to write it, and those that can write it fast write it sloppy. When I learned cursive, my handwriting was so tiny it only became sloppier as I grew up. Now I just stick to print.

06-10-2003, 08:15 AM	#26 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	A letter, card or note in cursive from a friend or loved one is a joy forever. It says that they took the time to craft something for you from the heart. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

06-10-2003, 10:02 AM	#28 (permalink)
Peetster Right Now Location: Home	cursive: I really don't think anyone will miss it. /cursive