basmoq

I know someone who just got a ticket for 34 over in a 60mph zone on I90 in Rocky River Ohio (suburb of Cleveland). Should she get a lawyer? I hear they can do great things, but has anyone ever tried it?

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Lady Sage

That all depends... Is the fine cheaper than a lawyer and court costs would be? Was it raining or will the officer have radar proof?

It also has to do with which judge she gets.

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basmoq

insurance is looking for a reason to drop her, she has had 9 not at fault accidents in 1.5 years... Cop used laser on a clear day...

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Jimellow

I'd recommend pleading guilty, sending in the money, and not speeding in the future unless she wants to pay more fines and get more points.

Getting a lawyer and going to court seems like a waste of time for things in which the speeding party is clearly guilty.

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Sultana

Nine accidents in less than two years? Sheesh. And she was going nearly 100 mph when she got this ticket? Can't say as I'd blame the ins. co. much.

Just sayin.

But if OJ got off, I don't see why others couldn't as well. It would take a rather expensive lawyer though, I'm thinking.

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loganmule

In most states, 30+ over the speed limit is reckless driving. a criminal offense, so she's lucky if the ticket was only for speeding, which is an infraction, not a crime. As for getting an attorney, most states have a pretrial deferral program, usually available to persons not going more than 15 mph over the speed limit, which results in a dismissal of the ticket, if there are no subsequent speeding tickets during the deferral period (usually 6 months). Rules can be bent, where an attorney is involved, such that the deferral program may be made available to her. I'd suggest that she call an attorney who practises in the county and court where the ticket is pending, and ask, first, if there is a pretrial deferral program that she could qualify for, and assuming so, what the fees and costs of that would be, including the attorney's fees. It might be expensive, but less so than the cost of insurance, with a 30+ speeding ticket thrown in on top of her accident hx. By the way, if she has been involved in 9 accidents in 1 1/2 yrs, the issue of fault aside, she may want to consider alternative means of transportation.

pan6467

She doesn't have much of a chance, especially if it was astate trooper. If it was a Rocky River officer the only hope would be to prove she was caught outside the city limits. Since Rocky River is firmly in Cuyahoga County, if it was a sheriff again no chance in Hell.

Unless she can prove part of the information on the ticket is false somehow, a lawyer will do nothing but take her money.

Plead "No Contest" that way the insurance company can't use anything against her.

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basmoq

it was the rocky river cops. As for the cost, I'd rather she bet $600 on a lawyer than take her chances with loosing her insurance

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thingstodo

I suspect she'll lose her insurance regardless. 9 accidents in that period of time is pretty darn high, even if they aren't your fault - it just shows that there is a lack of awareness of what is going on around her or dumb bad luck - and I don't beleive much in luck. Couple that with driving nearly 100 mph? A lawyer may soften the blow but she's pretty much screwed. I'm actually surprised they wrote the ticket and let her go.

It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

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basmoq

5 of the accidents were while parked, all were in different cities, none were in bad neighborhoods, if it makes a difference (I know insurance companies don't care). Lets just say the car has a big neon sign over it saying "Hit Me, Please!"

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shakran

This is not true. A no contest plea means YOU are not admitting guilt, just that the prosecution has enough evidence to convict you. The judge can (and will) then find you guilty. The verdict will read "guilty" and the insurance company will nail you just as hard as if you plead guilty.

The reason for an alford or nolo contendere plea is so that the prosecution will offer you a deal - - -i.e. "hey chop the violation to 10 over instead of 30 over and I'll plead no contest".

basmoq

I just found out that it was a Rocky River cop that pulled her over, but when I asked her exactly where she got tagged and pulled over, it was on the other side of the river in Lakewood's stretch of I90. This means the cop didn't have jurisdiction where he pulled her over... I'm thinking this will help her out a bit.

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shakran

does it say that on the ticket?

ASU2003

Does it really need to say it on the ticket? If you get a lawyer and go to court, you either hope the cop doesn't show up (it happened to my Dad, but for some weird crossing the white left turn lane line too late...), or you hope the lawyer can grill the cop and use the fact that he was out of his jurisdiction to the girl's advantage. But it also depends on where she was hit with the laser more so than where she got stopped.

94 mph...I only do that in Michigan (and out West), but it is in a 75mph zone.

Lady Sage

Still its a cops word against hers and with her record, unfortunately, it doesnt look good man....

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jorgelito

Wow, why not own up to it and take responsibility and accountability for it? I don't understand this trying to duck out of her responsibility. 94 in a 60 is pretty irresponsible and reckless.

analog

I was going to say- you take your chances when you speed, most especially when doing 94 in a 60 zone. She's just lucky as hell there's not a reckless driving charge, too.

Tell her to stop driving like a lunatic and she won't have to worry about cheating around the legal system.

And also, although you said 5 of her 9 "not at fault" were while parked, that still leaves FOUR actual accidents in the span of 18 months. That, by itself, is a very high number of moving vehicle accidents, even if found "not at fault". She's either the least lucky person on the entire planet, or she's driving in ways that put herself in danger of being hit.

feelgood

Holy shit, 9 accidents and yet, she's trying to get out of 30 over speeding ticket? Jeez man, you should be telling your friend to get off the road before she kills somebody.

You'd think that she would at least be more careful after being involved in 9 accidents regardless of who was at fault...

Another option is to have her attend driving school or at least take a course in road safety and the insurance company might just get off her back.

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basmoq

well, for starters, the not at fault accidents were completely not her fault, in one, a man swerved into her lane and hit her head on. Two were rear endings when she slowed down and the person behind her was tailing too close (morning rush hour traffic). The other one, she was sitting in the car at a gas station and a guy misjudged the gap between her and the pump and tried to squeeze through, literally. Only one of the accidents carries an Ohio police report according to the Ohio BMV website. She's not worried about the cops thinking she has a record, just insurance.

As for those of you suggesting riding a bike, get real people... She's a physician and currently a resident. She has limited time to get between the hospital and clinics she works at and works nutzy hours. There is no way in hell she could do it even with Cleavland's public transportation. Try and make some useful suggestions before criticizing her for bad luck and persistence.

As for taking responsibility for it, it's one thing to be honest, it's another thing to make one, albiet stupid, mistake and loose both your insurance and job at the same time when she has only her income to support her family. If it is true that the cop was out of his jurisdiction, then the ticket is not valid, period.

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shakran

Yes because otherwise the lawyer will get the cop on the stand and the cop will claim to have stopped her inside his jurisdiction.

And he may well have, actually - if she was in his jurisdiction when he clocked her, and then it took him until he was outside of his jurisdiction to catch her, it's in all likelihood a legal stop because neighboring departments usually have an agreement that says if a violation happened in the cop's jurisdiction, he can still make the stop even if the car then goes outside of his jurisdiction.

And since she was doing almost 100mph, it wouldn't have taken her terribly long to cross to another jurisdiction.

Toaster126

Wow. I'm surprised she didn't get her license taken away.

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eribrav

Doesn't sound like somebody I would want as MY Doctor.

Apparently she thinks it's fine to drive at incredibly excessive speed, endangering others around her, to satisfy her own selfish needs to save time on her commute? Do you want your Doc to be that self-centered and uncaring?

Maybe she gets rear ended because she drives aggressively in traffic? If you drive fast in tight traffic, then brake abruptly, you get rear ended. That's not bad luck, that''s bad driving.

Too bad they're not taking her license. Who cares about the technicalities or her chosen profession? She sounds like a hazard to herself and others.

keyshawn

Hey,

As a clevelander, I sympathize that your friend has few options (other modes of transportation in Cleveland are limited and in a situation like a physician resident, there probably would be a lot of times where she could not take RTA, the public transit, because there is no service to her destination and at certain times).

I'd guess that River and Lakewood have an agreement where a cop who witnesses the speeding occuring in their city/jurisdiction can pull over the offender and ticket them in the other city.
Now, whether or not the officer saw her speed in their jurisdiction or not; I don't . I'm not sure if officers can ticket people if the crime/offense does not take place in their city (But I would presume so, though IANAL).

The other question too, is whether or not the cop will show up (to court) if he/she is subpoenaed. I know in some cases in the city of Cleveland, people have been given more lenient sentences or given warnings because the officer never showed up; but this is River and that it's a 30+ mph offense, the cop is more inclined to show up.

(Basmoq, I do not condone your friend's actions and believe that she should take the responsibility of speeding and take the ticket: even if that includes loss of insurance and driver's license. I know you did not ask what our opinions on her actions were, just about her options with lawyers and the law, so I answered both ways).

good luck,
keyshawn

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analog

That doesn't make her any less of a dangerous and irresponsible driver. There's a reason why more than 30mph over the limit is prosecuted as a misdemeanor in many states. I don't care what her profession is. How'd her professional image look if she took out a car full of people, losing control at 94 in a 60?

And give us a break... going 94mph in a 60mph zone is not a fucking mistake, it's a wilful act. I'd bet good money it's hardly the first time she's ever done it, too.

There's giving a person an inch on their first oops, and there's letting a person off on doing something they knew for a fact was wrong and did anyway, and are now trying to weasel out of.

shesus

Wow...this is...

Ok, why would you get a lawyer to get out of a ticket that is so obviously deserved? People need to take responsibility. JJ got a speeding ticket driving through Ohio over Labor Day weekend. We were on I-70, there was an ambulance coming up behind us, he sped up to pass cars so he could get in the other lane...*BUSTED*. I was pissed (jj would say that is an understatement). I thought we might be able to get out of it, but nope...should have slowed down or pulled over onto the median. After about an hour of cursing, I realized shit happens. Pay the ticket and get over it.

Of course, we don't really have a bad history. My issue was the money because we were very unstable and low on it at that time. We could only spend $10 on food that week because of that ticket. Anyway...this woman sounds like she needs to go to traffic school and actually pay attention. It sounds like she's good at blaming others for her problems and then trying to find a any way possible to not take responsibility. Maybe losing insurance and licensure will teach her a thing or two. Yes, it sucks, but driving is a privilege and should be treated as that. You have to respect the laws and the fact that a vehicle can kill people very easily...happens everyday. What if one of her accidents did that? What if her speeding killed a person? Just something to think about...

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Blackthorn

Here's a recommendation for her: slow the hell down.

I can't count the number of times I've not exceeded the speed limit to that extent and at the same time been completely ignored by law enforcement that is out there looking for such offenders. Maybe even more shocking is that I've not had to seek legal counsel to try and avoid owning up to the responsibility of my non-criminal behavior.

That offense is not just a little bit over the limit. It's out of control over the limit. Save the money on the legal defense and strategies for getting out of the responsibility for these offenses and practice some better judgement behind the wheel.

Summary of Ohio Speeding Law


To answer the question of jurisdiction the following rule of law generally applies:

Local police in their town can arrest, without a warrant, any person for an offense when the person is taken or apprehended in the act or on the speedy information of others. Outside of their town, they can arrest someone (1) for a felony, without a warrant, at any time or (2) when in immediate pursuit from their town and they could legally arrest the person under their authority. A motor vehicle violation qualifies as an offense for purposes of this statute and an officer can pursue a person outside of his jurisdiction for a motor vehicle violation.

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thingstodo

This scares the hell out of me. I mean, someone trying to be a doctor with that kind of judgement? I hope I never run into her, on the road or in a hospital.

And if five of the hits were when she was parked it just has to say something about where and how she parks. Too many things have happened in the past 18 months, including her reckless disregard for speeds. 94 mph on a 60 mph road is just flat out fast!!

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basmoq

Your guys opinions asside, she was tagged while outside of Rocky River, and pulled over before entering Rocky river. Her personal problems aside, the officer did not have the right to be set up for ticketing outside of his jurisdiction. She was trying to pass a vehicle so she could squeeze into an exit and was not just cruising down the highway at that speed. Let's keep the thread on topic. I asked about legal options, not for a rundown of her moral character, I'm no more happy with her than you guys, but I'm a friend, and I don't want to see her lose everything over a speeding ticket (again, the problem is not with owning up to the ticket, it's with insurance dropping her, she has never had a ticket in 13 years of driving).

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MooseMan3000

Well, in Maine, 30+ above the limit is a criminal offense by default. Add to that reckless endangerment, and you're almost guaranteed to lose your license. And you should. That IS dangerous to everyone around you, and you should not be allowed to do it.

Course of legal action? Own up to it.

If insurance drops her, she'll have to get another company. And she'll have to pay more for it. Big fucking deal. If she doesn't get her license suspended for this, then the law hasn't gone far enough.

9 "not at fault" accidents in two years is a bit of a stretch, as well. If I run across a firing range and I get shot, technically it's the fault of the person who shot me. But I fucking deserve it. There is no WAY a single person can possibly be in that many accidents and have absolutely NO culpability. She's obviously a BAD driver.


You said yourself that this was during rush hour traffic, and she was rushing to get ahead of a car to get to an offramp. At no time is it EVER acceptable to be driving 94 in a 60 during rush hour, and then to swerve across a lane to get to an offramp? Out of the question.

If you're really her friend, you'll let her take the fall for this. She is putting herself in danger EVERY SINGLE TIME SHE IS ON THE ROAD, driving the way she does. If you actually care about her, you should realize that she needs to learn that what she's doing is wrong. If she weasels out of this ticket, she won't learn anything from the experience.

Next time she's going 94 on on offramp and she loses control and kills herself and several other people, she won't be able to get legal help. She'll be fucking dead.

But, of course, you don't want her to "lose everything over a speeding ticket," do you? So go ahead, tell her to get a lawyer, tell her to appear in court, tell her to argue that the cop was out of his jurisdiction, tell her to continue driving the way she does because she's in a hurry. That's clearly the right thing to do.

Just do me a favor, and let me know when she's coming to Maine so I can fucking hide.

shakran

How do you know this? I'd be very surprised if a cop were to go speeder hunting outside of his jurisdiction since that would not help his quotas.

Oh, well that's MUCH better then, isn't it?

Yeah well unfortunately for her the law is (hopefully) going to consider her "moral character" (by which I assume you mean that she's a total fucking moron to be doing shit like this) so if you want legal advice, it's going to include that rundown.


She's not going to lose everything. She's a doctor, she can afford the "You're a complete idiot motorist" insurance rate.

cyrnel

If she owns up to it, a judge is likely to weigh that on the positive side in the context of her potential social standing and benefit to society. She'll receive a penalty but nothing ruinous. (changing insurance carriers isn't ruinous)

I'm guessing that's what got her out of a more severe charge from the officer.

On the other hand she can fight, listing jurisdiction and "I was late" pleas, demonstrating nothing has been learned. My guess is she'll provoke a stronger lesson.

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basmoq

WOW, now talk about pissing me off, you really need to stay on topic, for starters, they were NOT AT FAULT, that means someone else wasn't paying attention in rush hour traffic, someone swerved into the wrong lane, OTHER people fucked up, not her!!! (FIVE OF THE ACCIDENTS HAPPENED TO HER HUSBANDS CAR, NOT THAT IT MATTERS TO YOU MR JUDGEMENTAL). The issue has NOTHING to do with owning up to the ticket, she would be happy to, THE ISSUE IS WITH INSURANCE DROPPING HER WHEN NONE OF THE NINE ACCIDENTS WERE HER FAULT, THE ISSUE IS WITH BEING DROPPED BECAUSE OF BAD LUCK. The ticket alone wouldn't get her insurance dropped, just raised significantly. Stop passing judgement on someone you have never met, this is not a bash my friend thread, if you don't have something significant to contribute, then stop contributing. This thread is to discuss legal options, and that is ALL!

On what planet do you live, residents make $35 and have $120K in debt when leaving school. I garantee you most of the people on this thread are in better financial situations than her. I watch her kid for free because she can't afford a babysitter for Christ's sake. She is supporting a family of three on $35 before taxes... Get a clue man, and stay on topic, people fuck up, end of story.

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feelgood

There's really no legal option. The insurance company has perfectly valid reason to drop your friend due to her record. It doesn't matter if she has 9 not at fault accidents on her record. They take a look at her record and compare it against the average for everybody and go "Hmm..this person has high risk of getting into accidents and is costing us money". The key word is high risk and now that she has a 30mph over speeding ticket to reinforce that statement. How do you think the insurance company is gonna look at that as? It's just gonna make them realize that she's is not worth it and just as likely to drop her.

Look at it this way; insurance companies don't give a living fuck if a bird shit on your car causing a dent on the roof, you're gonna pay either way.

Edit: Bad Luck translate into High Risk for insurance companies.

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Sultana

Out of curiousity, getting dropped from her ins. co.--would that really make her lose everything? Or would that just make her have to pay crazy rates? I guess if people have enough marks on their record an ins. co. isn't obligated to offer them coverage, but how often does that happen?

Do you really think that she'd not be able to get coverage with any other company, ever?

Here in California, it's a legal requirement...I've not heard of anyone absolutely not being able to get coverage, but honestly it's not something thats come up with me or anyone I actually know (beyond heresay, which isn't worth much).

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shakran

1) grow the hell up

2) Was she driving her husband's car? If so, then it doesn't matter what car she was driving, she was still there, it goes on HER record. If not, then your story is full of shit because ins. co's arent' going to blame you for a wreck that you weren't even in.

I want you to read this very carefully. There isn't anything she can do to escape the insurance company. If they want to drop her, they will. 9 accidents is an appallingly high number. I drive more than 50,000 miles a year and have yet to have ONE. Truckers drive more than that and don't rack up that many. Either she's the worlds most unlucky person or she's doing something to contribute to those accidents - i.e. swerving in front of other cars to get off at an exit (like you say she did here) and then getting rearended - -- legally the other guy's fault, realistically, her fault.

Again, grow up. You post a sob story on here that's full of crap, don't get upset when people point it out. I'm terribly sorry that people aren't telling you some magic solution to this problem. I feel terrible for you that people aren't saying exactly what you want them to say, but then in the adult world that doesn't always happen does it? Kindergarten mentalities don't go very far around here Ace.

Then she should be smart enough not to drive in such a way as to get a ticket shouldn't she?

Horseshit. $35 an hour is a fortune for many, MANY people.

And that's the legal system's fault how? The insurance comapny's fault how? Again, if she can't deal with the consequences, then she shouldn't drive like a dumbass.

And adults who fuck up deal with the consequences. You and your friend apparently want some magic genie to pop out of a lamp and make it all go away. Get a clue yourself, grow up, and give up trying to get her out of the mess she got herself into.

pan6467

I find it hard to find any sympathy whatsoever for someone that does 94 in a 60.

If she doesn't make that much then she shouldn't be driving that much over the limit.

If she knows her insurance is looking for reasons to drop her.... she shouldn't be driving that fast.

If she is in such financial straits how would she pay for a lawyer and a lawyer would be far more expensive than the price of the ticket, court costs and new "high risk" insurance, combined.

This is a woman who didn't just "fuck up and have bad luck", this is a woman that knowingly drove 34mph over the speed limit knowing the consequences and now is crying because she fears the consequences. She needs to grow up and accept responsibility for her actions. 94MPH if she would have hit someone or something there would have been no chance.... that is extremely excessive and as an Ohioan, I don't want that kind of driver on my roads send her to Michigan.

Well, life is full of them, consequences, and if you aren't willing to face the consequences don't do it.

As the great Baretta once said, "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime."


Sultana: in answer to your question, when a person can't get insurance in Ohio, they do an SR22.... basically it's a bond, I'm not sure how it works, DUI drivers and the very high risks have these.

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basmoq

She wasn't driving, they were hit and runs, 4 of the nine were moving accidents, 5 parked, only two hit's were while she was driving, the other two while her husband was driving. I'm not posting a sob story, I'm posting for legal advice, if you don't have it, then clam up, I'm sorry, but it seems your the one acting like a small child, because the adults I know don't judge people they have never met, you can have an opinion, but you don't know all the facts, so don't even think you know all that's going on and pass judgement like a little kid.

She makes $35K a year, sorry I forgot the K, but it seems you can't think for yourself because only an idiot would think that $35 an hour is a small sum, think before you post, or pass judgement for that matter.

Again, keep on topic, I've stated several times she is not looking for sympathy, just ideas. As for lawyer, it looks to run $600, where as new insurance would run her an extra $1K a year if she get's dropped, and that's for several years before the violation drops off the record, paying the ticket is by no means the cheepest option, and she has to pay the court fee's regardless of whether she pays the ticket or not. As I have stated REPEATEDLY, she has had an EXTRORDINARY case of bad luck between her and her husband, it has never in any way been her fault that the people around her don't know how to drive, she has never been in an at fault accident. I've been with her while she drives and she is quite a bit better driver than I am. Bad luck happens, sometimes really bad luck, but luck isn't something you controll. The ticket could and should have been prevented, but hindsight is 20/20, you can bitch all you want, but I can't possibly imagine that none of you have never passed a truck going less than 15 over to get around them, add a fast car, being pissed off, and lack of attention and your screwed. Is there any excuse, no, but that's not what I started this thread to talk about, I started it to find a way to fix the insurance issue, she's gonna learn her lesson just as well paying for the lawyer as she would pleading guilty, she knows what she did was wrong, and will pay for it between the court costs and lawyer, but if it weren't for the bad luck accidents, she wouldn't be facing loosing her insurance.

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shakran

Do you even bother to read what you write? Otherwise, why are you contradicting yourself in the same sentence?

Then those two go on the husband's insurance record, not hers. Again, your story is full of shit.

Yes, actually you are.

No, you're posting in the hopes that Glenda the Good Witch of the North will fly down and wave her wand and make this all go away. Unfortunately for you (and your friend) this is reality.

Listen Sparky, ordering members to shut up is frowned upon around here. Especially when done so in such a series of juvenile posts.

Well then perhaps you should sit down and learn to write a complete story, starting at the beginning, filling in the middle, and finishing with the end. Otherwise, we only have what you write to go on and we can't really help you much anyway can we?


Good move! Call me an idiot! That won't get the attention of a mod I hate to tell you but $35k a year is quite a sum of money for many people as well. I sure wish you made that much straight out of school in journalism.

This uttered in the same paragraph where you admit you fucked up her salary.



There are no ideas. She's screwed. She dug herself a nice, deep hole and there's no magic solution for getting out of it. Forget it. She's going to get this ticket on her record. The insurance company is going to find out about it. What they do beyond that is completely up to them, not up to a bunch of people on an internet message forum.

and as we have stated repeatedly, this part of your story smells fishy.

If she's in the dire financial straits you claim she is, what is she doing driving a "fast car?" Why isn't she driving a cheap econobox? Again, your story is full of holes.

Read very carefully: there is no way to fix the insurance issue. She's screwed. Live with it.

basmoq

car was a wedding present buddy, stay on topic or find another thread, obviously I don't care for your lack of advice, and as I have said repeatedly, I'm looking for advice on legal options, not personal insults from a kid that likes to annoy people with his very uninformed opinion.

BTW, I only posted the part of the story that was necessary for discussion of legal options, not judgement of another person's moral integrity, as you seem determined to derail this conversation towards. As I said, who is acting childish??? Grow up and try to post on topic just once, I dare you (knowing full well that you wouldn't even bother to try).

It's not your position to judge this part of my story, I asked for advice based on a statement, take it for what was stated and don't fill in the blanks yourself. If your so determined to tell me that you know what happened in each accident, then give me a rundown of the dates, times and situations yourself. The probability of that many accidents is low, however it is by no means impossible as it did happen. I personally have rear ended someone by not staying far enough behind in the rain, but it was my fault, not that of the jerk who stopped in the middle of a perfectly clear road because I cut him off earlier, it was still my fault. If your soooo desperate to hear the story of every accident, I'll tell you about all the accidents that occured while she and her husband were moving. First one, they were driving and a idiot swerved into there lane and hit them head on, he admitted fault. Second accident was when she stalled the car at a stop light and the old lady behind her just started driving when the light turned green. Third her husband was hit while sitting in the car at a gas station. Fourth, she was hit last week in rush hour traffic when traffic stopped ahead of her and the lady behind was tailgating. Best of all, none of this is relevant to lawyers, and I just wasted an hour on the phone getting the exact details of all her accidents to make some judgemental stranger stop posting useless insults on my thread about traffic court lawyers. Now can we PLEASE get on topic?

__________________
"There's someone out there for everyone - even if you need
a pickaxe, a compass, and night goggles to find them."

jorgelito

Jazz_Man is the resident TFP insurance expert. You might want to ask him about possible insurance possibilities too in this case.