Cool, thanks for the clarification. Yes, I would love to see a plasma tv powered by 12 v batteries!!

I find it interesting that the Grabers moved into an Amish community.

The Amish sort of remind me a bit of the Hasidic/Orthodox Jews - there are similarities in dress, tight-knit community. I think that on the sabbath, those Jews don't drive, use electricity or something like that also (can't remember specifically).

Oh God, Amtrak!! I think a horse & buggy is faster, seriously.

So how come you know so much about the Amish (and now I do too!)?

I guess this isn't a reason either...I'm assuming you'd rather they drive cars past the family's home and do drive by shootings for payback.

That is not an exclusive action to the Amish. Disowning, shunning, casting out, whatever you wish to call it, happens in every single sector of society and done for the most inane reasons. Hasidic Jews cut a small piece of clothing off in front of the family member who did something they 'shouldn't' have to signify that person is now dead, as an example.
I think it takes an inordinate amount of grace and civility for the Amish community to embrace the family of the killer of their children as they have. Not only have they gone to the widow's home to help her grieve, they have set up a fund for her kids. When's the last time you heard of anyone doing that in our 'normal' society?
Saying they're not worthy of your respect because they have resisted all the things we could easily do without is kind of.....silly.

/threadjack

It depends on the route. Most of the routes that were extremely slow were discontinued. For instance, I once took the Pioneer (which no longer exists) when I was 14. We called it the Amslug. We had to be bussed across Illinois because of floods and then our train was still 14+ hours late and wasn't properly equipped with food. We arrived in Portland, Oregon at 4am when we should have arrived at 3pm.

At any rate...the horse and buggy is still not faster, sadly.

/end threadjack

"progress" is not nessasarily better.

just because something is deemed "old fashioned" doesn't mean it actually doesn't work better for a society.

for instance, the environmental impact most amish/mennonite communities have is almost none and they are also self sufficient... that's a lot more than anyone in "progressive" common culture can say... we, who are tied to our gas and electric to survive daily tasks.... just a thought.

sweetpea

They didn't- - -they just live in an area that has a lot of Amish which, if you move anywhere near Lancaster, is inevitible.


Years ago I worked at a station that had Amish country as part of its coverage area. Got to know a lot of 'em, and became friends with 'em once they realized that even if I was holding a camera I knew not to take their picture with it.

Just a nerdy etymological jab.

I never said they wouldn't interact or help anyone outside their group. If you remember a few posts up I mentioned interacting with as a child quite a bit.

You are free to assume whatever you like.

Thats OK, I don't respect anyone else who would do that either. And I will remind you, and Cynthetiq (post facto), that this thread is specifically NOT about the recent shootings. I think it is great that they can forgive the family of their childrens killer, but many people forgive and comfort their nemesis every day. It just doesn't make headlines.

As I was cruising the dictionary.com I found this interesting and thought to point it out to you since the "Just a nerdy etymological jab" I became interested looking at the entymology of respect and found this:

(bold is mine)

So thus, your statement is by definition, your "not respecting" them is disrespecting them.

Cynthetiq:

I'm sorry everything is so black and white to you. I make a conscious choice to respect things, as I explained to shakran above. If I have not made that choice, then I don't respect said thing. I also make the concious choice to disrespect things. If I haven't made that choice, then I don't disrespect them either.

Shades of grey.

The difference here is that your default response toward everything is to respect it. At least that is what you are suggesting I do. I would put to you that such respect is of little or no worth.

actually it's not black and white, but exactly as you stated, shades of grey.

While disrespect has the underlying meaning on "not respecting" you are using the three definitions quite properly. You just cannot accept the fact that the 2nd definition is still the same meaning, when in reality you are trying to state that you "disrespecting" someone is ONLY the definitoin of "regard or treat with contempt or rudeness."

That my friend is black and white, not shades of grey.

Cynthetiq:

Is the entire basis of your argument a dictionary definition? If so, I am sorry I don't fit into your book.

No argument here, I'm just being observant. You do fit into my book. YOU don't think you fit into it.

You believe that my feelings toward the Amish are either:

Respect - to hold in esteem or honor

or

Disrespect - to regard or treat without respect; regard or treat with contempt or rudeness.


I would put to you that (gasp!) there is a third option. Savvy?

please enlighten me to that third option that isn't within the bounds of defitions I originally posted, or you posted above.

Apathy, disregard, unconcern, etc.

agreed, but it is encompassed by "to regard or treat without respect;" since there is no respect.

since you aren't giving them any particular attention by your statment of "apathy, disregard, unconcern" disrespect is still within the bounds even moreso now that I've done more entymological research.

Aside from completely threadjacking this topic, your dogmatic insistence that there are only two possible states of mind regarding any group of people is becoming annoying at best, non-sensical at worst.

Let me ask you something. How do you feel about native Siberian wood carvers (or, if you happen to have ever thought about native Siberian wood carvers before, insert a group of people you have never conciously considered before)?

Don't be shy, this is an exercise in makeing you understand.

I pay social security, I don't get it, I dont' want it, how the hell do I get out of it? I'll wear a straw hat if needed.

now that you've brought (insert whatever I have never consciously considered before) to my attention, it falls into defintion "2 : an act of giving particular attention : CONSIDERATION" of the word respect.

I'm thinking that your black and white thinking means that respect is "3 a : high or special regard : ESTEEM b : the quality or state of being esteemed c plural : expressions of respect or deference" and ONLY that definition.

I'm also of the opinion that the analog also qualifies and frames his argument along the same lines.

Is this really happening?

:crazy:

Thanks for completely ignoring my post. My "black and white" mind has now conveniently pigeonholed you into the category of casuistic.

Have a day.

If you are truely apathetic concerning the amish then why did you regard their culture enough to make a whole thread and concern yourself with arguing your lack of respect?? You do care that they don't conform or you would not have bothered to post this thread. I don't believe you that you really feel that way about them. Otherwise you would stop concerning yourself with this thread.

there was a thread sometime back about the very words and feelings behind "respect." you asked me how I felt, I answered an honest answer not trying to be disingenuous. sorry that I don't understand your point of view and was trying quite hard to.

:icare:

I didn't start the thread. What I have spent my time on this thread for is to challenge those who feel I must believe as they do or else somehow be a, oh what was that word, bigot. This is not so.

Apathy was just an example of a middle ground betwixt respect and disrespect, though it does adequately explain how I feel about the Amish.

Again, the Amish have done nothing to earn either my respect or my disrespect.

Look, to be completely honest you're making yourself look foolish here. If you say you do NOT RESPECT something, and the defintion of disrespect is to NOT RESPECT something, then you DISRESPECT it. I don't know how Cynthetiq could have spelled this out more clearly for you. You do disrespect the Amish.

And if your "nerdy etymological joke" involved the fact that "denigrate" has the letter string "nig" in there, and therefore must refer to "nigger," then you're showing your vast ignorance of the language, because "denigrate" stems from the 1500's, long before anyone came up with the offensive term in question.



And Ustwo, you WILL collect social security. The Amish will never collect it - it goes against their beliefs.

Actually shakran, denigrate is from the latin denigrare, "to blacken". I just found it humorous that you should use that term in the context you did. Perhaps that just shows my vast ignorance of humor as well.



edited for spelling (how embarrassing)

WHAT?!!!??!

Just seeing if you were paying attention ;)

Yes, debaser, I know where denigrate comes from. Just wanted to be sure people didn't think it was a racist term ala the "niggardly" political fiasco.

Of course. Just to clarify further, I was the one being nerdy.

Ah, but I was the nerdiest. I only came in the discussion for a few posts, and a few of them were to try and get control over an overzelous new member....then my last post was 100% joke. Being a transient verb has it's advantages. :thumbsup:

I don't want it, I won't get out what I put in, its a stupid idea, its against my beliefs to pay money into a stupid idea all politicians are too afraid to touch until its to late.

I'm wearing a straw hat and they can come take it, the SS money, not my hat.

Alas, we may live in a world where not even straw hats are safe.

Ahhh but alas, you have three businesses in which you must pay taxes and provide benefits to your employees. I am afraid you are stuck in the loop.

Amish pay their taxes in cash and walk away. They have no employees in which to worry about. There is something to be said for the simple life. :D

I get where he's coming from, and I agree with him. Not to say that the dictionary is <i>wrong</i>, but I don't think it should be worded as it is. There's a yes, a no, and a maybe - you respect, disrespect, or don't care. It may be technically correct that 'dis' is 'not' and so qualifies as a lack of respect, but disrespect has negative connotations. Whereas disrespect <i>should</i>, etymologically just mean lack of respect, it is assumed that when one disrespects another they have negative feelings towards them. This may, however, not be the case. To respect means to hold in high esteem, to disrespect means to not have a high esteem for - but not necessarily to hold in disdain [yipes, there's that dis- again!].

What debaser is saying - regardless of etymology and definition - is that he doesn't dislike the Amish, but doesn't have reason to hold them in high regard. Yes, he's using disrespect incorrectly, but that's what he means (and you know it, so there's no point in going on and on about how he disrespects the Amish, because you know what his feelings are, even if they're not communicated entirely correctly). I personally feel that every verb like this should not only be a matter of yes or no, but have a middle-ground. Disrespect, while only really meaning to not hold in high esteem, has connotations of being in opposition. Being unsupportive is one thing, but being actively against it is quite another.