Is this letter ridiculous? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

popo · 10-02-2006, 07:36 PM

We've been having a nutty time with our trashy neighbors who moved in a few months ago. Here's a letter I'm going to give to the property manager. Would you change anything?

Dear X,

This letter is to update you on the living situation about which we have previously spoken to you.

We met with you on September 22, 2006 regarding the difficulties we were having with the new neighbors directly below us. We requested guidance on how to deal with a situation which was becoming more aggressive on their part. We described our neighbors’ loud nature which includes slamming of doors at all hours (waking us up in the middle of the night) and yelling profanities. In addition, there has been drug use, graphically sexual activities in the parking lot, and a Hispanic male visitor who stands outside their apartment entrance staring us down as we enter our residence. We described the fact that they’d started banging on their ceiling (our floor) and lately, they have begun playing very loud music with a strong bass, shaking our living room floor.

This afternoon, I approached R [front office chick]regarding teenagers that jump into the complex from over the wall adjacent to our unit. This morning, footprints were noted on the trunk of our car parked directly under the carport, adjacent to the wall that they use. She stated that she was aware of the problem and that she didn’t believe that they lived on the property. Later that day, the teenagers that I’ve seen jump over the wall were using scooters outside our residence. I approached them and mentioned the footprints on my car that. I stated that if there is damage to my car again, the police will be called.

While speaking to the teens, our downstairs neighbors came onto their patio and began yelling obscenities at me. The mother, the teenage daughter and the child were all yelling absurd obscenities about me being “too f’ing old to have kids, too f’ing wrinkled”. The child was being encouraged to yell. I did not respond. I entered my residence and still heard them yelling. When friends of the teens came to pick them up, the three downstairs began waving at them, yelling “you’re our friends, hi neighbors”. The teenagers did not respond and seemed not to know them. I suppose that this was a childish attempt to befriend people who cause us trouble.

This has reached a point that is neither reasonable nor tolerable. When we met with you, you proposed us having a meeting with the neighbors to discuss the situation. We considered this, however something that you relayed to us made us decide against the idea. You stated that they had complained to you that 1) we are banging to incite them, and 2) one of us told them that we would get them kicked out because of the way they appear. These statements lead us to believe that they are not operating in good faith.

Prior to meeting with you, we had complained about their excessive noise a total of three times in three months and two of these times we did not initiate the telephone call with the front office. One would think that if we were planning to lodge enough complaints to get them evicted, we would call to complain at every instance of excessive noise.

In fact, the one time that either of us spoke to any of them was the day after they moved in when I apologized for them needing to call you. The person I spoke with was apparently not a resident since she stated that it was her sister who had moved in and phoned in the complaint. At no time has either of us said a word to any resident of their apartment. Furthermore, since their first complaint about our walking heavily (the first night of their residency at the complex), we have considered how we walk and have attempted to do so softly. As an example, we no longer wear shoes inside the apartment, ever.

In speaking with nearby residents, we’ve been told that the noise, profanity, and male visitor who stares at people are a common concern. We’ve been told that they have lodged complaints. In our meeting with you, you stated that they hadn’t and that we should obtain their complaints in writing. We have subsequently not asked them for this as they have previously voiced concern to us over potential property damage if complaints are relayed to our neighbors. We feel that this is understandable and if we had small children as they do, we’d likely stay quiet as well.

In short, we feel that the increasingly aggressive nature of our neighbors is not tolerable. You have offered to us the option to end our lease early if we felt that we could not live under the current conditions and that is our decision. The current conditions are not habitable and there is fear for safety. We are currently seeking other options and will give you 30 days notice once we have found a suitable residence.

It’s unfortunate that it has come to this as we have had an otherwise pleasant experience at the complex over the past three plus years. We had no plans to move when our lease was up later this year. We understand the difficult situation that all of this has put you in and we appreciate your help.

Sincerely,

.........

Tamerlain · 10-02-2006, 08:05 PM

Third paragraph, second last sentence: "I approached them and mentioned the footprints on my car that."

Other than ending that sentence without saying what "that" is, it looks like a good letter. It's very respectful and outlines the reasons you'll be looking for other accomodations, which looks better on you than simply stating that you're leaving.

Sorry to hear about your situation, it sounds pretty awful.

-Tamerlain

ngdawg · 10-02-2006, 08:06 PM

Paragraphs 4 and 8 kind of repeat.
If it were me writing the letter, it would be more in a log form, ie;' Oct 1., contacted R regarding incident A....R responded such and such. No change.' I'd start it out as:
'Since July 1, when soandso moved in downstairs, the following has taken place...'
and keep the details short and sweet, but that's me.
I'd close with the statement that they suggested your leaving with 30 days notice and be sure to get it in writing that any security deposit will be returned or point that out if it is part of the lease.
Also, send the letter with return receipt requested so you know they got it and didn't just toss it.

popo · 10-02-2006, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamerlain

Third paragraph, second last sentence: "I approached them and mentioned the footprints on my car that."

Other than ending that sentence without saying what "that" is, it looks like a good letter. It's very respectful and outlines the reasons you'll be looking for other accomodations, which looks better on you than simply stating that you're leaving.

Sorry to hear about your situation, it sounds pretty awful.

-Tamerlain

Thanks for the catch, it was left there in editing. It really sucks and the worst part is that the front office has done nothing to help us. We just don't want to push them into the corner of our wacko neighbors against us. These folks downstairs are seriously scary, I don't know how they afford it.

Journeyman · 10-02-2006, 08:09 PM

If the accounts in the letter are true, then it's rediculous how calm you are in the letter. Lesser people than you would have shot them by now. I'm glad your landlord has given you the option to end your lease early.

popo · 10-02-2006, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngdawg

Paragraphs 4 and 8 kind of repeat.
If it were me writing the letter, it would be more in a log form, ie;' Oct 1., contacted R regarding incident A....R responded such and such. No change.' I'd start it out as:
'Since July 1, when soandso moved in downstairs, the following has taken place...'
and keep the details short and sweet, but that's me.
I'd close with the statement that they suggested your leaving with 30 days notice and be sure to get it in writing that any security deposit will be returned or point that out if it is part of the lease.
Also, send the letter with return receipt requested so you know they got it and didn't just toss it.

I'd like to do that but to be honest I never thought it'd come to this and didn't keet a diary of events. A log doesn't doesn't have much effect without accurate dates. I don't even remember the date they moved in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Journeyman

If the accounts in the letter are true, then it's rediculous how calm you are in the letter. Lesser people than you would have shot them by now. I'm glad your landlord has given you the option to end your lease early.

And if that's you in your avatar I wish I had you as my buddy here.

Me, I'm just a puny dentist and my wife a CPA. We no look scary.

magictoy · 10-02-2006, 09:11 PM

It's a great letter, but I'm curious in regard to its purpose. If it's to help out other neighbors who have complained, make sure those neighbors get a copy.

If the landlord has been as uncooperative as you say, and they have already agreed to let you end your lease early, what does the letter accomplish?

Still, it's too bad you have to deal with people like your neighbors. If enough people move out, maybe the landlord will wise up.

popo · 10-02-2006, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magictoy

It's a great letter, but I'm curious in regard to its purpose. If it's to help out other neighbors who have complained, make sure those neighbors get a copy.

If the landlord has been as uncooperative as you say, and they have already agreed to let you end your lease early, what does the letter accomplish?

Still, it's too bad you have to deal with people like your neighbors. If enough people move out, maybe the landlord will wise up.

It's a good question. I'm not sure what the purpose is other than to set the record straight. As noted, the psychos have complained about us more often than we've complained about them even though we're 2 people out for 12 hours/day who never play loud music or have parties. After they lied about us telling them that we'd get them evicted b/c of the way they look, we got the feeling that the front office believed them. Supposedly psycho mom cried as she said it. Good actress.

Anyways, I guess it's just to get our side out there and in case any others decide to complain in the future. Also I'm not sure what they're legally allowed to tell future landlords who call them for references so I'd like to have this on record. Decent idea on giving good neighbors a copy or at least details of the letter. Thanks.

little_tippler · 10-03-2006, 03:13 AM

Crappy neighbours suck. Been there. Good luck. I know how it feels to be totally in the right but have others look at you sideways, because they don't have the guts to speak up and defend themselves, as if you are the crazy one.

I hope your next place is a happier one.

popo · 10-03-2006, 05:28 AM

You guys think I should take out "Hispanic"? I mean it as a description since he's not a resident here, just someone who comes often, a boyfriend I think.

sapiens · 10-03-2006, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by popo

You guys think I should take out "Hispanic"? I mean it as a description since he's not a resident here, just someone who comes often, a boyfriend I think.

I would take it out. It doesn't seem relevant. If at a later time you are asked about the man, you could provide that information.

Carno · 10-03-2006, 07:49 AM

What difference does it make what race he is?

DDDDave · 10-03-2006, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by popo

Dear X,

This letter is to update you on the living situation about which we have previously spoken to you.

We met with you on September 22, 2006 regarding the difficulties we were having with the new neighbors directly below us. We requested guidance on how to deal with a situation which was becoming more aggressive on their part. We described our neighbors’ loud nature which includes slamming of doors at all hours (waking us up in the middle of the night) and yelling profanities. In addition, there has been drug use, graphically sexual activities in the parking lot, and a male visitor who stands outside their apartment entrance staring us down as we enter our residence. We described the fact that they’d started banging on their ceiling (our floor) and lately, they have begun playing very loud music with a strong bass, shaking our living room floor.

This has reached a point that is neither reasonable nor tolerable. Prior to meeting with you, we had complained about their excessive noise a total of three times in three months and two of these times we did not initiate the telephone call with the front office. One would think that if we were planning to lodge enough complaints to get them evicted, we would call to complain at every instance of excessive noise.

In short, we feel that the increasingly aggressive nature of our neighbors is not tolerable. You have offered to us the option to end our lease early if we felt that we could not live under the current conditions and that is our decision. The current conditions are not habitable and there is fear for safety. We are currently seeking other options and will give you 30 days notice once we have found a suitable residence.

It’s unfortunate that it has come to this as we have had an otherwise pleasant experience at the complex over the past three plus years. We had no plans to move when our lease was up later this year. We understand the difficult situation that all of this has put you in and we appreciate your help.

Sincerely,

.........

As has been mentioned, other than to 'set the story straight' , there is no need to go into gory details. Obviously, the property manager is willing to tolerate their behavior. If they intended to evict them, the property manager would have told you that.

My only other suggestion would be to write a letter to the owner(s) letting them know of the current status of their property. You might want to re-state the owners legal responsibility to provide a safe living environment. No reasonable apartment complex owner wants to lose tenants because of the actions of other tenants. By not evicting them, they are giving their tacit approval of the situation.

JMHO from a former slumlord.

Good Luck.

xepherys · 10-03-2006, 12:04 PM

Where do you live? What state? Frankly, I'm too stubborn to move out becuase of some asshat neighbors. I'd get the police involved. I'd also look into potential monetary damages (return of rent for x months) since the complex management team will not work with you. Forget just moving out. There is an expectation, whether you rent or own, that where you live is your HOME and that you can feel safe and comfortable being there. In the case of renting (in a complex) it is generally the responsibility of the complex manager (and their company, if applicable) to assure everyone has a safe, happy living environment. In fact, there very well may be something along those lines in your lease contract, and I definitely suggest combing over it.

If you feel you must move and have no other choices, than so be it. Frankly, I'd fight (in a legal and sensible manner) the situation tooth and nail.

iccky · 10-03-2006, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carno

What difference does it make what race he is?

Exactly. And mentioning it could be construed as you having a racial problem (and from the sounds of it, they'll construe as much as they can to shift the blame off of them).

I think its good to send the letter, even if you are getting out, if not for yourself then for the other people who live in the complex. Once the property manager realizes he's loseing business becasue of these people, he'll make what effort he can to get them out or get them to shape up (of course, he probablly can't do much, tenant laws being what they are).

popo · 10-03-2006, 09:58 PM

Ok, I edited a few things, took out the Hispanic reference as I should and added this:

"In addition, Section 11 of our Lease Agreement entitles us to “quiet enjoyment of the premises” free from “annoyance”, “disturbance”, or “harassment”. The lack of solution following our previous complaints is therefore withholding the environment to which we are legally entitled. We are currently seeking other options and will give you notice once we have found a suitable residence."

I left the letter in the drop box this evening. I'll follow it up with a certified letter but I wanted to get this to them before the wackos make up some story about what happened the other day. I'm also sending a copy to resident relations dept of the national company that owns the property.

Xepherys, I gotchya but to be honest neither my wife or I are in the mood for a fight with psychos. What's that saying about never arguing with an idiot.... It's a big deal to move but this incident has left a sour taste in our mouths about the place as a whole. We find them to be unprofessional.

----------------------------------------------------

Holy cow. As I typed this, police knocked on our door. They said that neighbors had complained about us banging, slamming doors and disturbing them. I was floored, as they had banged on our floor a couple hours ago. We invited the police in and gave them the story. They were really nice guys and understood completely. Unfortunately they had to come. They stated that things could only get serious if the neighbors decided to file charges but that they'd need proof, as in bringing in other neighbors. As crazy as all this seems to us, that's not going to happen. I typed up another brief letter describing the events and am sending it out certified tomorrow.

This is freaking crazy.

william · 10-11-2006, 03:56 PM

You should not have to leave your home because of the actions of others. I live in SoFl, and you have to give at least 60 days notice if you intend to move. The apartment's great (maintenance could use some work). We've had some crappy neighbors, but there are options. Namely, call the police (non-emergency number). That's the safest option if you're worried about repurcussions - they respond, not report. Bug the managers. In our housing market, rentees are now selective. Perhaps your letter will help. It really depends on how much they care about quality renters. If they don't, then you aren't leaving soon enough. Until my family can move out of the f'd up market, this is our home. I be damned if I let someone force me out.

uncle phil · 10-11-2006, 04:05 PM

where in this world do you live?

genuinegirly · 10-11-2006, 04:09 PM

This doesn't sound like much fun. I am glad that you're getting out of this situation before the environment negatively affects your children's views of the world, and of other ethnicities. I hope that you are able to find a suitable residence in the future. Please be certain to encourage other residents to lodge similar complaints to the property owner.

Mrs Master · 10-11-2006, 08:38 PM

What a difficult situation, I can understand your wanting to leave. Even when we're in the right we cant always win, its better to walk away when the stress and suffering outweigh the benefit. Even if popo wanted to take it further it sounds like a he said, she said senario and the people living underneath obviously know the ropes. Natural law will dictate and these people will one day pay the price for their behaviour as long as they remain the way they are. Their lifestyle sounds pretty angry and nasty as it is, they're already in their own private hell.

Reminds me so much of my ex

popo · 10-13-2006, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle phil

where in this world do you live?

In a wealthy area of Orange County, CA believe it or not. In this area, if you've got less than 800k you're looking at a condo or apartment.

The story has gotten worse. They come out to watch and intimidate as we walk to our cars causing us to park on the other side of the complex so we avoid walking in front of their view. The mother (with a giant claw tattoo on each breast, just visible over her wifebeater) walked behind my wife the other day and whispered "skanky bitch". My wife stopped, pretended to tie her shoes and walked extra slow but the mom stayed behind her.

The badass gangster-looking shaved head guy came out at 6:50am yesterday to watch as we left. We have our dry-cleaning delivered and left at our door each Thursday, yesterday nothing. We called and yes, it was delivered. Worse, it had our bill with names & phone #. The property manager's reaction tohearing this was "You leave your things outside?!) Today I've changed our # to unlisted and will do so again once we move in 3 weeks.

We went to the cops last week and we're again going tomorrow. As luck would have it, someone I know's husband is a retired cop and has offered to put in calls and has even staked out the joint with his old partner the past couple nights. They got some info on the shaved head guy and think he's a gang member from Mexico based on his tattoos. They're going to follow these people and figure them out.

If it goes further we're close to deciding to put everything in storage for the 3 weeks and move to a hotel. This is so far out of my element you have no idea.

Sage · 10-13-2006, 05:34 PM

Based on your last post, you are no longer dealing with just bad neighbors, you're dealing with a situation where you are legally entitled to involve the police on grounds of harassment and intimidation, which you most certainly should. Your family's safety and your car are at risk right now- take appropiate steps to preserve both. Start with reporting the dry cleaning theft, then go from there.

surferlove007 · 10-13-2006, 06:11 PM

You have quite a bit more patience than I do. I would of called the police months ago about the noise and profanity and most likely saught a way to get them evicted. No one should have to deal with such a situation in their residence. I'm sorry you are in this situation. The letter may not reflect quite how upset you are about it, but it is a very professional tone overall showing you taking the high road. Good job!

The_Dunedan · 10-14-2006, 12:27 PM

Sadly, you're prevented by California's legal situation from carrying a weapon. I'd suggest, however, putting a shotgun behind the door, or at least a Louisville Slugger. Hopefully you'll never need it, but situations such as what you describe can go "Hot" in a -big- hurry.

magictoy · 10-14-2006, 02:35 PM

A little pepper spray, easily accessible, might not be a bad thing for your wife, either.

popo · 10-14-2006, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magictoy

A little pepper spray, easily accessible, might not be a bad thing for your wife, either.

Yep, purchased 2 days ago. We filed a police report today about the dry cleaning. We explained the whole story again and were told that unless we press charges for harassment, not much they can do. We don't want to do that since we hope that in 3 weeks we've seen the last of these people. The shaved head guy doesn't appear to be the kind scared off by a civil harassment suit anyhow.

Does nyone know of an easy/inexpensive way to monitor the front door in case there's another theft or damage? Remember that it's an apartment so we can't do too much as far as installation.

Lady Sage · 10-14-2006, 06:49 PM

I am usually fairly passive but I gotta say..... Sue the **** outta that apartment complex! I hope they put those *** $$$$$ in jail!

End rant.... Seriously though I think moving to a hotel for a few weeks is a very very good idea!!!

magictoy · 11-24-2006, 09:53 AM

So do we get the ending note of this opera?

Mister Coaster · 11-24-2006, 11:44 AM

I missed this topic when it first came up, but I read the whole thing, I hope to hear the resolution as well... and I'd like to make a side-note...

***Somewhat off-topic rant ahead***

I see how tactful and well-mannered you are being, and I also noticed that you were very careful to dance around the "hispanic" comment. In no way were your comments offensive, even with the use of the word "hispanic." Now, if you had said "There is a guy that looks like a Mexican Gang-Member hanging around" then that would have been considered a racist statement, and plenty of people probably would have jumped all over you for stating such. As it turns out, the police identify this guy as a gang member, from a gang in Mexico. Hmmmmm... Looks like sometimes calling them like you see them is spot-on.

I'm not a racist, but I always find it intolerable when people are labeled as "racist," when they are simply making a statement that happens to include a person's race in that statement. Especially if they were correct in the first place.

***And now back to your regularly scheduled topic.***

popo · 11-24-2006, 05:55 PM

Aah yes, you all deserve to hear the end of the story. All is well now.

Well after that dry cleaning theft which we reported to the police, things got very quiet. Eerily quiet, to the point that we wondered what was up. This was also just as we were deciding whether to move to a hotel until we move.

I mentioned that someone who I work with has a husband who is a retired homocide cop and they followed the good neighbors for a few days. Well one day at work this lady asks me "So, notice anyone not around these days?" I laughed and said that sure we were wondering where gangster guy was. She said that he was "picked up on paperwork and spent a few days in the slammer". I asked what paperwork that could be but she didn't know. Whatever, I was grateful that they pulled the strings for us and there was no way these people would trace is to us.

Even when we started to notice this gangster guy again, he seemed to be quiet. They still slammed doors but much quieter overall. We stayed in our apartment but parked on the other side and never came across them.

For moving day we hired 3 guys to help us load/unload. Of course the big momma and gangster show up and start hanging around watching. The movers happen to be big strong Guatamalans who happen to think that Mexican gangster-types make it all worse for Latinos. They don't like this guy staring at them and after we tell them a bit of the story, they say that they hope he says something to them. One of the movers bumps him with a box b/c he was in the way but nothing more. When my wife walked by the big fat momma yelled "Yeah party tonight! The fuckers are gone!"

I went to the front office and said "If you don't control your residents, the police will be here in 5 minutes. We don't need to be sworn at while packing" The idiot girl looked at me in amazement "Who? Downstairs?" I said of course, who else? She asked if it's the kids again, they'll call the mother. I said, "Are you guys still confused? It IS the mother yelling!" She threw her hands up and turned to talk to the manager. I walked out. No other problem aside from the movers wantng to beat her teenage kid who started glaring.

So we moved. New place is great. A little expensive, ok alot expensive but you get what you pay for I guess. As far as lawsuit, we decided that we're just happy to be out. Both of us have long hours with stressful careers and we don't have the time to fight. We spoke with a lawyer who said he thinks there's something there but would need to look up details for 2 hours at $400/hr to get started.

We're satisfied with just being out. And there's the knowledge that the racoons in the area will be fed well since we dropped pieces of cheese all around our neighbors' (groundfloor) unit. I'm all for keeping the animals happy.

yournamehere · 11-24-2006, 07:39 PM

I would have left the bathtub water running on my way out.

Seriously, though - I'm glad for you that it's over.

Now live well (it's the best revenge!).

Moskie · 11-24-2006, 08:46 PM

crazy story. as much as i want to say it was juvenile to leave that cheese out... i can't help but think it's the least you should do.

10-02-2006, 07:36 PM	#1 (permalink)
popo Psycho	Is this letter ridiculous? We've been having a nutty time with our trashy neighbors who moved in a few months ago. Here's a letter I'm going to give to the property manager. Would you change anything? Dear X, This letter is to update you on the living situation about which we have previously spoken to you. We met with you on September 22, 2006 regarding the difficulties we were having with the new neighbors directly below us. We requested guidance on how to deal with a situation which was becoming more aggressive on their part. We described our neighbors’ loud nature which includes slamming of doors at all hours (waking us up in the middle of the night) and yelling profanities. In addition, there has been drug use, graphically sexual activities in the parking lot, and a Hispanic male visitor who stands outside their apartment entrance staring us down as we enter our residence. We described the fact that they’d started banging on their ceiling (our floor) and lately, they have begun playing very loud music with a strong bass, shaking our living room floor. This afternoon, I approached R [front office chick]regarding teenagers that jump into the complex from over the wall adjacent to our unit. This morning, footprints were noted on the trunk of our car parked directly under the carport, adjacent to the wall that they use. She stated that she was aware of the problem and that she didn’t believe that they lived on the property. Later that day, the teenagers that I’ve seen jump over the wall were using scooters outside our residence. I approached them and mentioned the footprints on my car that. I stated that if there is damage to my car again, the police will be called. While speaking to the teens, our downstairs neighbors came onto their patio and began yelling obscenities at me. The mother, the teenage daughter and the child were all yelling absurd obscenities about me being “too f’ing old to have kids, too f’ing wrinkled”. The child was being encouraged to yell. I did not respond. I entered my residence and still heard them yelling. When friends of the teens came to pick them up, the three downstairs began waving at them, yelling “you’re our friends, hi neighbors”. The teenagers did not respond and seemed not to know them. I suppose that this was a childish attempt to befriend people who cause us trouble. This has reached a point that is neither reasonable nor tolerable. When we met with you, you proposed us having a meeting with the neighbors to discuss the situation. We considered this, however something that you relayed to us made us decide against the idea. You stated that they had complained to you that 1) we are banging to incite them, and 2) one of us told them that we would get them kicked out because of the way they appear. These statements lead us to believe that they are not operating in good faith. Prior to meeting with you, we had complained about their excessive noise a total of three times in three months and two of these times we did not initiate the telephone call with the front office. One would think that if we were planning to lodge enough complaints to get them evicted, we would call to complain at every instance of excessive noise. In fact, the one time that either of us spoke to any of them was the day after they moved in when I apologized for them needing to call you. The person I spoke with was apparently not a resident since she stated that it was her sister who had moved in and phoned in the complaint. At no time has either of us said a word to any resident of their apartment. Furthermore, since their first complaint about our walking heavily (the first night of their residency at the complex), we have considered how we walk and have attempted to do so softly. As an example, we no longer wear shoes inside the apartment, ever. In speaking with nearby residents, we’ve been told that the noise, profanity, and male visitor who stares at people are a common concern. We’ve been told that they have lodged complaints. In our meeting with you, you stated that they hadn’t and that we should obtain their complaints in writing. We have subsequently not asked them for this as they have previously voiced concern to us over potential property damage if complaints are relayed to our neighbors. We feel that this is understandable and if we had small children as they do, we’d likely stay quiet as well. In short, we feel that the increasingly aggressive nature of our neighbors is not tolerable. You have offered to us the option to end our lease early if we felt that we could not live under the current conditions and that is our decision. The current conditions are not habitable and there is fear for safety. We are currently seeking other options and will give you 30 days notice once we have found a suitable residence. It’s unfortunate that it has come to this as we have had an otherwise pleasant experience at the complex over the past three plus years. We had no plans to move when our lease was up later this year. We understand the difficult situation that all of this has put you in and we appreciate your help. Sincerely, .........

10-02-2006, 08:05 PM	#2 (permalink)
Tamerlain Insane Location: Victoria	Third paragraph, second last sentence: "I approached them and mentioned the footprints on my car that." Other than ending that sentence without saying what "that" is, it looks like a good letter. It's very respectful and outlines the reasons you'll be looking for other accomodations, which looks better on you than simply stating that you're leaving. Sorry to hear about your situation, it sounds pretty awful. -Tamerlain __________________ I never let school interfere with my education.

10-02-2006, 08:06 PM	#3 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	Paragraphs 4 and 8 kind of repeat. If it were me writing the letter, it would be more in a log form, ie;' Oct 1., contacted R regarding incident A....R responded such and such. No change.' I'd start it out as: 'Since July 1, when soandso moved in downstairs, the following has taken place...' and keep the details short and sweet, but that's me. I'd close with the statement that they suggested your leaving with 30 days notice and be sure to get it in writing that any security deposit will be returned or point that out if it is part of the lease. Also, send the letter with return receipt requested so you know they got it and didn't just toss it. __________________ Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

10-03-2006, 03:13 AM	#9 (permalink)
little_tippler Leaning against the -Sun- Super Moderator Location: on the other side	Crappy neighbours suck. Been there. Good luck. I know how it feels to be totally in the right but have others look at you sideways, because they don't have the guts to speak up and defend themselves, as if you are the crazy one. I hope your next place is a happier one. __________________ Whether we write or speak or do but look We are ever unapparent. What we are Cannot be transfused into word or book. Our soul from us is infinitely far. However much we give our thoughts the will To be our soul and gesture it abroad, Our hearts are incommunicable still. In what we show ourselves we are ignored. The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged By any skill of thought or trick of seeming. Unto our very selves we are abridged When we would utter to our thought our being. We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams, And each to each other dreams of others' dreams. Fernando Pessoa, 1918

10-03-2006, 07:49 AM	#12 (permalink)
Carno Junkie	What difference does it make what race he is? __________________ http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/

10-02-2006, 08:09 PM	#5 (permalink)
Journeyman Like John Goodman, but not. Location: SFBA, California	If the accounts in the letter are true, then it's rediculous how calm you are in the letter. Lesser people than you would have shot them by now. I'm glad your landlord has given you the option to end your lease early.

10-02-2006, 09:11 PM	#7 (permalink)
magictoy Crazy	It's a great letter, but I'm curious in regard to its purpose. If it's to help out other neighbors who have complained, make sure those neighbors get a copy. If the landlord has been as uncooperative as you say, and they have already agreed to let you end your lease early, what does the letter accomplish? Still, it's too bad you have to deal with people like your neighbors. If enough people move out, maybe the landlord will wise up.

10-03-2006, 05:28 AM	#10 (permalink)
popo Psycho	You guys think I should take out "Hispanic"? I mean it as a description since he's not a resident here, just someone who comes often, a boyfriend I think.

10-03-2006, 12:04 PM	#14 (permalink)
xepherys <3 TFP Location: 17TLH2445607250	Where do you live? What state? Frankly, I'm too stubborn to move out becuase of some asshat neighbors. I'd get the police involved. I'd also look into potential monetary damages (return of rent for x months) since the complex management team will not work with you. Forget just moving out. There is an expectation, whether you rent or own, that where you live is your HOME and that you can feel safe and comfortable being there. In the case of renting (in a complex) it is generally the responsibility of the complex manager (and their company, if applicable) to assure everyone has a safe, happy living environment. In fact, there very well may be something along those lines in your lease contract, and I definitely suggest combing over it. If you feel you must move and have no other choices, than so be it. Frankly, I'd fight (in a legal and sensible manner) the situation tooth and nail. __________________ The prospect of achieving a peace agreement with the extremist group of MILF is almost impossible... -- Emmanuel Pinol, Governor of Cotobato My Homepage

10-03-2006, 09:58 PM	#16 (permalink)
popo Psycho	Ok, I edited a few things, took out the Hispanic reference as I should and added this: "In addition, Section 11 of our Lease Agreement entitles us to “quiet enjoyment of the premises” free from “annoyance”, “disturbance”, or “harassment”. The lack of solution following our previous complaints is therefore withholding the environment to which we are legally entitled. We are currently seeking other options and will give you notice once we have found a suitable residence." I left the letter in the drop box this evening. I'll follow it up with a certified letter but I wanted to get this to them before the wackos make up some story about what happened the other day. I'm also sending a copy to resident relations dept of the national company that owns the property. Xepherys, I gotchya but to be honest neither my wife or I are in the mood for a fight with psychos. What's that saying about never arguing with an idiot.... It's a big deal to move but this incident has left a sour taste in our mouths about the place as a whole. We find them to be unprofessional. ---------------------------------------------------- Holy cow. As I typed this, police knocked on our door. They said that neighbors had complained about us banging, slamming doors and disturbing them. I was floored, as they had banged on our floor a couple hours ago. We invited the police in and gave them the story. They were really nice guys and understood completely. Unfortunately they had to come. They stated that things could only get serious if the neighbors decided to file charges but that they'd need proof, as in bringing in other neighbors. As crazy as all this seems to us, that's not going to happen. I typed up another brief letter describing the events and am sending it out certified tomorrow. This is freaking crazy.

10-11-2006, 03:56 PM	#17 (permalink)
william Psycho	You should not have to leave your home because of the actions of others. I live in SoFl, and you have to give at least 60 days notice if you intend to move. The apartment's great (maintenance could use some work). We've had some crappy neighbors, but there are options. Namely, call the police (non-emergency number). That's the safest option if you're worried about repurcussions - they respond, not report. Bug the managers. In our housing market, rentees are now selective. Perhaps your letter will help. It really depends on how much they care about quality renters. If they don't, then you aren't leaving soon enough. Until my family can move out of the f'd up market, this is our home. I be damned if I let someone force me out.

10-11-2006, 04:05 PM	#18 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	where in this world do you live? __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

10-11-2006, 04:09 PM	#19 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	This doesn't sound like much fun. I am glad that you're getting out of this situation before the environment negatively affects your children's views of the world, and of other ethnicities. I hope that you are able to find a suitable residence in the future. Please be certain to encourage other residents to lodge similar complaints to the property owner. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

10-11-2006, 08:38 PM	#20 (permalink)
Mrs Master Tilted	What a difficult situation, I can understand your wanting to leave. Even when we're in the right we cant always win, its better to walk away when the stress and suffering outweigh the benefit. Even if popo wanted to take it further it sounds like a he said, she said senario and the people living underneath obviously know the ropes. Natural law will dictate and these people will one day pay the price for their behaviour as long as they remain the way they are. Their lifestyle sounds pretty angry and nasty as it is, they're already in their own private hell. Reminds me so much of my ex

10-13-2006, 05:34 PM	#22 (permalink)
Sage hoarding all the big girl panties since 2005 Location: North side	Based on your last post, you are no longer dealing with just bad neighbors, you're dealing with a situation where you are legally entitled to involve the police on grounds of harassment and intimidation, which you most certainly should. Your family's safety and your car are at risk right now- take appropiate steps to preserve both. Start with reporting the dry cleaning theft, then go from there. __________________ Sage knows our mythic history, King Arthur's and Sir Caradoc's She answers hard acrostics, has a pretty taste for paradox She quotes in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus In conics she can floor peculiarities parabolous -C'hi

10-13-2006, 06:11 PM	#23 (permalink)
surferlove007 Junkie	You have quite a bit more patience than I do. I would of called the police months ago about the noise and profanity and most likely saught a way to get them evicted. No one should have to deal with such a situation in their residence. I'm sorry you are in this situation. The letter may not reflect quite how upset you are about it, but it is a very professional tone overall showing you taking the high road. Good job!

10-14-2006, 12:27 PM	#24 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	Sadly, you're prevented by California's legal situation from carrying a weapon. I'd suggest, however, putting a shotgun behind the door, or at least a Louisville Slugger. Hopefully you'll never need it, but situations such as what you describe can go "Hot" in a -big- hurry.

10-14-2006, 02:35 PM	#25 (permalink)
magictoy Crazy	A little pepper spray, easily accessible, might not be a bad thing for your wife, either.

10-14-2006, 06:49 PM	#27 (permalink)
Lady Sage Mistress of Mayhem Location: Canton, Ohio	I am usually fairly passive but I gotta say..... Sue the ** outta that apartment complex! I hope they put those * $$$$$ in jail! End rant.... Seriously though I think moving to a hotel for a few weeks is a very very good idea!!! __________________ If only closed minds came with closed mouths. Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open. It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch.

11-24-2006, 09:53 AM	#28 (permalink)
magictoy Crazy	So do we get the ending note of this opera?

11-24-2006, 11:44 AM	#29 (permalink)
Mister Coaster Big & Brassy Location: The "Canyon"	I missed this topic when it first came up, but I read the whole thing, I hope to hear the resolution as well... and I'd like to make a side-note... *Somewhat off-topic rant ahead* I see how tactful and well-mannered you are being, and I also noticed that you were very careful to dance around the "hispanic" comment. In no way were your comments offensive, even with the use of the word "hispanic." Now, if you had said "There is a guy that looks like a Mexican Gang-Member hanging around" then that would have been considered a racist statement, and plenty of people probably would have jumped all over you for stating such. As it turns out, the police identify this guy as a gang member, from a gang in Mexico. Hmmmmm... Looks like sometimes calling them like you see them is spot-on. I'm not a racist, but I always find it intolerable when people are labeled as "racist," when they are simply making a statement that happens to include a person's race in that statement. Especially if they were correct in the first place. *And now back to your regularly scheduled topic.* __________________ If you have any poo... fling it NOW!

11-24-2006, 05:55 PM	#30 (permalink)
popo Psycho	Aah yes, you all deserve to hear the end of the story. All is well now. Well after that dry cleaning theft which we reported to the police, things got very quiet. Eerily quiet, to the point that we wondered what was up. This was also just as we were deciding whether to move to a hotel until we move. I mentioned that someone who I work with has a husband who is a retired homocide cop and they followed the good neighbors for a few days. Well one day at work this lady asks me "So, notice anyone not around these days?" I laughed and said that sure we were wondering where gangster guy was. She said that he was "picked up on paperwork and spent a few days in the slammer". I asked what paperwork that could be but she didn't know. Whatever, I was grateful that they pulled the strings for us and there was no way these people would trace is to us. Even when we started to notice this gangster guy again, he seemed to be quiet. They still slammed doors but much quieter overall. We stayed in our apartment but parked on the other side and never came across them. For moving day we hired 3 guys to help us load/unload. Of course the big momma and gangster show up and start hanging around watching. The movers happen to be big strong Guatamalans who happen to think that Mexican gangster-types make it all worse for Latinos. They don't like this guy staring at them and after we tell them a bit of the story, they say that they hope he says something to them. One of the movers bumps him with a box b/c he was in the way but nothing more. When my wife walked by the big fat momma yelled "Yeah party tonight! The fuckers are gone!" I went to the front office and said "If you don't control your residents, the police will be here in 5 minutes. We don't need to be sworn at while packing" The idiot girl looked at me in amazement "Who? Downstairs?" I said of course, who else? She asked if it's the kids again, they'll call the mother. I said, "Are you guys still confused? It IS the mother yelling!" She threw her hands up and turned to talk to the manager. I walked out. No other problem aside from the movers wantng to beat her teenage kid who started glaring. So we moved. New place is great. A little expensive, ok alot expensive but you get what you pay for I guess. As far as lawsuit, we decided that we're just happy to be out. Both of us have long hours with stressful careers and we don't have the time to fight. We spoke with a lawyer who said he thinks there's something there but would need to look up details for 2 hours at $400/hr to get started. We're satisfied with just being out. And there's the knowledge that the racoons in the area will be fed well since we dropped pieces of cheese all around our neighbors' (groundfloor) unit. I'm all for keeping the animals happy.

11-24-2006, 07:39 PM	#31 (permalink)
yournamehere Invisible Location: tentative, at best	I would have left the bathtub water running on my way out. Seriously, though - I'm glad for you that it's over. Now live well (it's the best revenge!). __________________ If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors: "If your ridiculous pants are too loose, you're definitely going to lose them. Tell your two loser friends over there that they're going to lose theirs, too." It won't hurt your fashion sense, either.

11-24-2006, 08:46 PM	#32 (permalink)
Moskie Pure Chewing Satisfaction Location: can i use bbcode [i]here[/i]?	crazy story. as much as i want to say it was juvenile to leave that cheese out... i can't help but think it's the least you should do. __________________ Greetings and salutations.