ShaniFaye

No...*some* people are trying to say you cant wear two hats at once and be a person's PR man and friend at the same time because a friend wouldnt really give a shit that the public would want information about such a world renown person. I guess next thing you know somebody will be criticizing Terri for making a statment to the zoo employees the day after Steves death....guess she couldnt really care for him too much if she could take the time to talk at them huh?

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Frosstbyte

I'm sorry, Analog, that's not going to cut it. He's the manager of a celebrity who died a high profile death. It's unreasonable to think the guy could make it out of this without talking to the media. This is a big story; it's a tragic story. People want to hear about it. You might disagree with how the system (i.e. mass media) works, but the pressure put on him to make these appearances is as undeniable as it is immense.

I very much doubt his first priority in some global sense is to make media appearances. I'm sure he'd much rather be with friends and family mourning the tragic passing of a friend. The structure of our society doesn't support that choice and you're being intentionally obtuse and insensitive to say that he's realistically in a position to do otherwise. YOU might not care about the pressures of the media world and might wish they didn't exist, but that does not make them somehow disappear for someone who has spent his entire life and career immersed in them.

dd3953

i hate to say it (well not completely) but he had that coming. he did a lot of crazy (yet cool) stuff, & it was only a matter of time for one of those animals took a bite out of him.

still, i never really thought it would happen . . .

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Sultana

If his manager, who was also his friend, didn't perform his JOB by handling the media, the unhappy task would fall upon the Widow, or someone else who shouldn't have to deal with the media at that time. He was helping to take care of the widow and the kids, which is exactly what Steve would have wanted and expected.

Stuff like this happens every day.

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Ustwo

I'm just hoping the video never gets out to the public for the families sake.

He has a huge body of work there is no need to show his death to gawkers. Hell his kid will never know him, he doesn't have to have someone showing him a youtube of his fathers death a when hes a kid.

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kutulu

Also, everyone deals with death in different ways. It helps some people to talk about it and at the same time he had to feel an obligation to the millions of fans to say something. Give the guy a break, he lost a friend.

Agreed. People have a sick sensation with gore and death.

I found a great quote from his wikipedia entry:

analog

Your sarcasm is delicious.

He built that zoo up. I doubt anyone would argue that the people working at the zoo would be anything less than good friends of his, if not "damn near family". Those people would definitely fall under the umbrella of any person's definition of "people close to him".

So, no, no one would criticize her for that- I don't even understand how you could possibly equate the manager talking with the media at large, with his wife privately addressing the people Steve worked with at the zoo, who would be close to him.

I love sarcasm, but I find that sarcasm is best, in conversation, when you have a valid point (or any point, really) to make.

I guess not everyone would agree with that. /sarcasm


I didn't say don't talk to them at all, ever. I said they can wait until he's ready- and since you're all blaming his lack of word control on his grieving, then I'm saying he should have grieved enough that he's able to make statements. He could have taken one extra day. Sidenote: I don't give a flying monkey's ass what people want to hear about. People can wait.

We don't owe anything to the media. His job, if he's a friend, is to his friend and the family- and last I checked, Irwin is dead and no longer in need of a publicity manager. From here on out, he would manage his intellectual property interests, if anything. Right now, Irwin's interests are his family and friends that need to cope. This guy could have waited (a few more hours? a day?) until he felt ready to talk to the media. For a guy who supposedly spends his life immersed in the media, he made a poor choice to speak extemporaneously while under such severe circumstances. There's no reason he couldn't have waited a few more hours, or until the next day.

Paq

wholeheartedly agree.

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analog

While I agree with the sentiment, are we sure that's what Steve would have wanted? I mean, think about it... he was an entertainer. His whole joy was in entertaining. He didn't quietly weave baskets in a cave somewhere away from people- he was right out in front of crowds, large crowds, putting his safety on the line to give people a show. I'm honestly curious what his intentions would be with regard to this... and I wonder if it was written in his will.

feelgood

I wonder if the last word he breathed was "Crikey!"

But humour aside, it's terrible that's he's gone, my heart goes out to his family.

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Paq

i was reading somewhere that he said he wanted to go out being eaten by a crocodile saying, "CRIKEY" as his last words...

it makes me smile.

Then again, i also read where his crew thought the ocean would be where he'd buy it. Makes sense as he was obviously capable on land, but you can't really move faster than most marine animals.

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Marvelous Marv

This has no resemblance to what happened to Irwin, so I don't see this as a valid comparison.



You should probably avoid family funerals, then, even though 80-year-old Aunt Edna is having has trouble blocking a left hook because of that arthritis in her shoulder. (To remove any doubts about how this should be interpreted: I don't think much of your statement, or philosophy, or whatever you want to call it.)



What I SAID was The point being that even though his manager may have thought Irwin was dead, he didn't try to play doctor, decide Irwin was dead, and cease resuscitation attempts. I used to teach CPR, and we drilled into the students that CPR is continued until a) Professional medical help is present, b) the patient revives, or c) you are forced to quit, due to exhaustion.

Your quote above certainly appears to contradict these principles.

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analog

Marv: To the CPR point... I was referring to the doctor, not the manager. The article said the doctor tried reviving him until the helicopter came. That's what I was referring to. I wasn't talking about the manager at all in that regard.

To the funeral point: There's a huge difference between blind sympathy (some relative or whomever making something up to comfort you), and outright lying from someone "official". He put himself in an official capacity to speak on the events that occurred, and issued a public statement that I felt was very irresponsible, because it was such a blatant mistruth. This is hardly the same thing as someone coming up and offering sincere condolences that happen to be a bit more optimistic than reality would allow.

I don't know why this is such a big deal. All I said was he was being very irresponsible in lying like that. As manager, and in front of press in that professional capacity, he issued a statement that contained an obvious falsehood. It's irresponsible. And I called him a douchebag for it- which, honestly, I almost never use that word because I find it tasteless, but I found him to be tasteless so it worked out.

eribrav

It's clear that no one can explain to you, in a way you can comprehend, why it's inconceivably obnoxious to call Steve's close friend a "douche bag" for giving a statement to the press that may or may not have had an element of the unknowable in it. I won't go further and assign blame for whose failing that is.

dlish

some more info to shed light on the story..maybe this might quell this little fued..at least for a little while.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20378335-2,00.html


Safety suit didn't fit Irwin image

By Hedley Thomas and Michael McKenna
September 09, 2006 12:00am


ON the afternoon before his final adventure, Steve Irwin sat on the aft deck of Deepstar, an aluminium catamaran moored at Batt Reef off Port Douglas, and looked wide-eyed at his host Pete West's newest purchase.

It was a modern-day suit of armour. A head-to-toe stainless steel mesh outfit, complete with full-face helmet.
The creation of a San Diego-based company specialising in marine equipment, it had been custom-made to protect its wearer from all but the most determined sea creatures.

Even tiger sharks - known to devour stingrays, serrated barb and all - would have found the sections of steel unappealing.

The wildlife guru's childlike enthusiasm - his best friend and manager, John Stainton, reckoned he had never grown up - was at once obvious.

Irwin did not hold back. He picked up the heavy and unusual-looking thing. Turning it over and feeling its smooth texture, he began asking questions.

"Crikey. How heavy is it, mate?" Irwin, 44, asked West, an expert diver-cinematographer and the owner of Deepstar. "It's 12 kilograms, Steve."

To meet Irwin was to immediately like him. His energy, over-the-top antics and interest in all he talked to were unique and completely genuine, and West was won over.

West, who had spent most of his life either in or on top of the water since working as a teenager at Marineland at Manly in Sydney, explained the suit's features. While the expensive high-definition cameras were heavy on land but virtually weightless in the water because of the buoyancy of the housing, the suit would still be a burden.

But with additional air in a buoyancy vest, West had no qualms. Its design permitted a good range of movement. It had cost him and his business, National Underwater and Marine Agency, about $7000 - a drop in the ocean if it could save a life. It was brand new, shipped from the US a few weeks earlier. At 49 and a new father for the first time, West started to explain to Irwin why he had taken an extra precaution that few underwater cinematographers had contemplated. He had taken risks on dives throughout the world - primarily on deep-sea oil rigs and for the military - before arriving at Port Douglas 15 years ago and falling back into cinematography. There had been close shaves, but now it was about doing all he could to ensure he would be around to watch his 10-month-old daughter, Taylor, grow up.

West had respected Irwin and admired his work from afar for years. Their meeting over soft drinks and snacks on the Father's Day Sunday afternoon, as Deepstar lay at anchor over the coral bommies teeming with turtles, rays and sharks, was their first.

The suit was unorthodox. West figured that some of his tough-as-teak mates, who wore just rubber and scuba tanks during close encounters with man-eaters, might have gently ribbed him.

To the man known to millions of people as the Crocodile Hunter, a seemingly fearless naturalist who wrestled reptiles and dangled venomous snakes around his neck while wearing khaki, the stainless steel mesh might have seemed a bit over the top.

Irwin's fans expected him to flirt with danger. Risk, whether real or perceived, was the most compelling part of the show and Irwin played it perfectly. He was not into mockery or gratuitous put-downs, but the lifesaving suit would never work for Irwin, despite his fears that one day, and probably in the sea where he was most vulnerable, an animal would get the better of him.

Irwin had just begun working with West and his crew on a documentary series, Ocean's Deadliest. There was mutual respect. But the banter on board was tinged with disappointment. Exchanging anecdotes about the triumphs of their children, the men would have preferred to have been at home on Father's Day.

They were on the water because deadlines had to be met. After shooting sequences in the waters at Agincourt, about 40 nautical miles northeast of Port Douglas, Irwin's vessel, Croc One, had motored south to Batt Reef. The bull rays were abundant because the shallows had plentiful food and there were fewer foreign threats - the big-hulled tourist vessels, transporting hundreds of day-trippers kitted for snorkelling, were too large to come close to the reef and the sea life.

On board Croc One were some of Irwin's closest friends and colleagues, people whose trust had been proved time and again.

The vessel's skipper, Chris Reed, dared not bring her in too close to the reef; the jagged coral deserved respect.

Apart from John Stainton, the film producer who had discovered Irwin and managed and marketed him to the world, there was Jamie Seymour, a marine biologist with a legendary passion for sea animals, and highly regarded cameramen Justin Lyons and Philippe Cousteau, the grandson of famous French ocean explorer Jacques. The crew members on Croc One and Deepstar were experienced at sea and trained in first aid.

Irwin's time in north Queensland in the days and weeks before he arrived at Batt Reef was typically adrenaline-charged: he had rolled in the mud with crocodiles in Lakefield National Park at Cape York and brushed over lethal stonefish at the reef of Agincourt.

In Port Douglas, Irwin was the natural attraction when he stepped from Croc One on to the marina - photographed and cheered by tourists from around Australia and abroad.

But the weather last weekend was lousy, dark and foreboding. The usual millpond-like conditions at Batt Reef had turned, with strong southeasterly winds creating a chop on the water and stirring up the sand in the shallows. For the high-definition cameras, visibility was soupy.

Irwin, already frustrated for a couple of days before the weekend at his inability to capture on film excitement in the water, was settling for alternatives - deadly cone shells and sea snakes - when someone mentioned Batt Reef's schools of rays. The rays are usually gentle, but their barbs can be dangerous, and footage of a large bull ray gracefully turning around the coral was better than nothing.

On Monday morning, Irwin was bursting with energy and a determination to make up for the disappointment of the previous days. Because of its deeper draft, Croc One was moored about 1km north of Deepstar.

Two of West's diving crew were in the water, checking anchors and preparing for the afternoon shoot, while he and marine biologist friend Teresa Carrette stayed on board. They could see the white inflatable dinghy from Croc One about 500m away; the tide was turning as Irwin, snorkelling in his khakis, shadowed a medium-large ray while Lyons filmed.

Suddenly the dinghy was racing towards Deepstar at full speed, and instinctively West knew something was amiss. The inflatable bumped into the starboard quarter and Lyons yelled: "Steve's been hit by a stingray!".

The predicament was dire. Irwin, lying in the inflatable, was not moving. There was an obvious wound to his chest and at first glance it looked dangerously close to his heart. He had a reputation as the guru of high drama and edge-of-your-seat TV, but this take was not part of the script.

The underwater camera lay on the floor of the dinghy. Lyons, who filmed the strike but did not realise exactly what had happened until he saw blood in the water, appeared gravely worried.

On Croc One, most of the crew remained oblivious to the crisis. West, who had been a medic on oil rigs, summed it up quickly. If it had been a gash to the foot or some such injury, Irwin would have been pulled on board and given professional first aid but the volume of blood around his chest looked serious. He told Lyons to speed to Croc One and Seymour.

As the inflatable sped off, the first radio call went out. The Port Douglas Coast Guard did not respond on the emergency VHF channel 16, so West called for the next nearest. "Coast Guard Cairns. Coast Guard Cairns. This is Deepstar. We are in need of immediate medical assistance."

In the conversation with the radio operator in Cairns, no names were used at first. But on Croc One, the skipper, Reed, heard the plea for help. The inflatable was seconds away from Irwin's 20m vessel and the crew readied for action.

After Cairns Coast Guard switched to channel 73, so the situation could be discussed without interruption from others on the water who had heard the first distress call, Seymour, who had been monitoring the conversation and had assessed Irwin's critical condition, came on the radio. He upgraded the alert and asked for an emergency evacuation.

Stainton would later reveal he believed Irwin was already dead, but nobody was prepared to give up hope. There was a frantic but well-organised drill as the crew took it in turns to try revive him. Although Croc One was in deeper water at Batt Reef, it still had to proceed with caution around the coral until the throttles could be pushed fully forward. But the next radio call was grave. Seymour wanted to know if West had a defibrillator on board. Negative. He had plenty of oxygen, but nothing to restart a heart. The question had said it all.

All the way into Low Isles -- the closest shelter and heliport between Batt Reef and Port Douglas -- the crew on Croc One kept trying. They had abandoned the inflatable and another dinghy, the Black Pearl, both of which West recovered. "How is Steve doing?" West asked after receiving a call from Lyons to ask if the camera had been retrieved.

"He's in the hands of professionals," Lyons replied.

Having been asked to secure the camera and ensure its tape had not malfunctioned, West hit the playback button and he and Teresa Carrette watched the last few seconds on the small view-finder. As Stainton disclosed later, the footage was graphic and shocking. West watched a medium-wide shot of Irwin paddling above a 1m-wide bull ray, which suddenly whipped its tail and barb into his chest.

"When I saw the film it explained exactly what had happened," West told The Weekend Australian yesterday.

"I had feared already that Steve was dead. The facts are we lost a great Australian in a tragic accident. Like everybody else in this country, I didn't know what a treasure we had until we lost it.

"The simple things kill. And it happens too quickly."

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thingstodo

Apparently you are unaware how tough the media can be. And they don't wait for payment owed, they just relentlessly go after that payment. There is often no escaping them and it becomes better to confront the situation, especially if that is your job, as it was in this case. And even though it is your job, there are trying times and we are all human.

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shakran

some media outlets do that, yes. I'm happy to say that I've never forced or unduly pressured anyone who's lost a loved one to talk.

I've covered PLENTY of funerals (most of the recent ones all thank's to Mr. Bush's war), and when someone doesn't want to talk, they don't talk. Period. My assignment editor can go to hell if he doesn't like it.

However, I've never had a problem telling the story because others WANT to talk. It's cathartic for them to talk to me, even if there is a giant Betacam pointed at them at the time.

I'm guessing Steve's manager was in that latter category. Sometimes when something horrifically tragic happens to you, you just have to talk about it. He probably also felt a big sense of duty to all of Steve's fans. So he talked. Should he have said Steve felt no pain? Maybe, maybe not. I've never lost a close friend after trying and failing to keep them alive for 30 minutes as we raced to shore. But I have a very close friend who I've known and worked with for over a decade and, if she were to die on me like that, I can't imagine I'd be thinking very straight for quite some time.

I certainly think calling the guy a douchebag and being that hard on him is way, WAY out of line. Perhaps you have sufficient control over your emotions that you can lock them away when you're simultaneously talking to the media and trying to make sense of what for you is an unbelievable personal tragedy. Many do not have that control. I would venture to say most of those that lack it, wouldn't want it. Part of what makes us human is the ability to feel emotions and to sometimes have those emotions eclipse our colder, more intellectual side.

Dissociated

Well to be honest at times his whole "crikey attitude" bugged me but he was a good bloke with good intentions and died doing what he loved. Rest in peace Steve.

Sugarmouse

I liked him.I belive he did care for the animals and sent out a good message thru his work. I also believe he knew what he was doing with animals and did not take uneccesary risks...he knew what he was doing.

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lindalove

This has been an interesting thread to read to say the least.

While I don't know the first thing about how Austraila deals with animal conservation or how Aussies felt about Steve and his approach to getting his message across, I do find some of the comments made about him interesting.

If this were a PETA member, in some peoples eyes the person would be considered a hero even with PETAs reputation for being a shady organization...

Then there is the simple issue that most people don't get how important animal conservation really is. If a species that the media has hyped out as being evil, people will go out of their way to kill it. Sharks are a perfect example.

Sharks over the past 10-15+ years have been presented as beasts that have no other agenda than to chew on humans. The media fails to talk about all the food processing plants that dump 100's of pounds of scraps into ocean waters that brings the "man eating" beasts close to shores. Since Steve died due to taking sting ray barb to the heart, I'm just waiting for media to label sting rays in the same way.

I could take is a step further and mention how people cannot wrap their brains around how to properly take care of their pets, nevermind mind the lessons that need to be known of how to deal with a nest of rattlesnakes that may be hidden under a persons front porch and stumbled upon by accident.

I didn't know Steve personally, so I'm not going to speculate on what his intentions were or why he used such extreme methods to make his point that all animals of all kinds need to be protected, but unlike some people, I give the man alot of credit. Police officers, fire fighters, EMT's, ect...put their necks on the line every day. You never hear people stating that they deserved to die because of their occupation choice, but since Steve was all about animals, somehow it's different and it is in more ways to count, but he seemed to understand that people wouldn't listen if he just simply talked about what he was doing. I'm a big Jack Hanna fan, but people tend not to take him seriously ( even though they should) because he doesn't wrestle with 400 pound gaters or taunt cobras to the point where he/she reveals his/her impressive hood.

So was Steve so far off base? I don't think so. Will I continue to learn animal trivia from Jack Hanna? Of course.

Education goes alot further than having somebody write a cover page story of some newspaper that is filled with bogus facts and fiction just so they can make their boss happy.

RIP Steve!

Paq

heh, funny, linda, I posted on another board that he wasn't just asking for injury/death bc of his line of work. Heck, he was in no more danger than a bomb squad member or a police officer. He at least knew the rules, ie, the animal is always out to get you, don't drop your guard, etc. A police officer has no clue what is waiting in the car he just pulled over. heck, CNN money put out an article on the most deaths per 100,000 jobs and it's quite fascinating..
http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/13/pf/dangerousjobs/



btw, #5 includse pizza delivery people and vending machine operators.

So honestly, i dno't think he was just 'asking for it,' merely just that he was so publicized for what he did. heck, his death by a stingray is about as random as getting struck by lightning.

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bluelou

I think he fronted up bravely to do his job..part of which would be to shield the family from the press...if they don't get a story from someone to appease their apetite they could be sticking cameras and microphones into Terri's face for her reaction...by him fronting up and giving the media something to feast on he spared them...don't know if I couldv'e done it, took guts.

lindalove

I read this morning that PETA was saying he got what he deserved, (f'n whackjobs). Article here.. Its short.

God...I have less than no respect for that organization.

Lady Sage

Does Irwin’s career as a naturalist impress the animal-rights group? Says Mathews: “If you compare him with a responsible conservationist like Jacques Cousteau, he looks like a cheap reality TV star.”

Correct me if I am wrong... (im not btw) Mr. Cousteaus son was killed by a shark.

ShaniFaye

if I remember right he was killed in a flying boat crash

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Lady Sage

*Bows to Shani* You were correct, Phillipe died in a boat crash (my dad was full of crap)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Cousteau

ShaniFaye

I dont know if anyone else watched the memorial, but I'd just like to say it was very sweet and well done....we cried thru the whole thing, but Bindi made me smile...her message poignant

I love this picture....her daddy, her hero....larger than life



Here is a video link to her speech

http://video.news.com.au/videoplayer...300&format=wmp

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Daval

Wow, I watched the whole thing last night as well, stumbled upon it by accident and was hooked. Bindi's speech made me tear up. wow.

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