lindalove

This paragraph is genius. Thanks for that.

shakran

Religion makes absolutely no logical sense.

For example, many christian religions tell us that, when something bad happens, it's all part of God's plan.

Then they tell us to pray and ask God for what we want.

Those two teachings are mutually exclusive. If it's part of God's plan, it will happen whether we pray for it or not. If it's not, we can pray all we want and it's not gonna happen. Your desire for more money or for your soldier to come home is insignificant next to what the ruler of the entire universe has mapped out.

My point is, religion is exceedingly illogical, and many people are starting to point that out when religion comes up.

If you've spent your whole life believing in god, and then suddenly a bunch of people are running around telling you that god is bullshit, you won't be able to come up with a logical line of reasoning to discredit that statement.

That's frustrating.

So religion has become a hot-button topic.

I agree with Mr SD that athiests are just as bad as the ultra-religious side.

The simple fact is we do not know what's out there, we don't know what made all of this, and what's more, we will never know (unless whatever made all of this reveals him/her/itself when we die). You can't prove to me that there is a god, but then again you can't prove to me that there isn't one either.


People like things that are black and white, and they get pissed off when there isn't an answer to a question, especially if they believe in an answer to that question, but can't convince anyone but small children and those who are already convinced.

lukethebandgeek

I am offended by religion as it is society's most effective tool in repressing sexuality, dehumanising women, and keeping people in the dark ages mentally and intellectually.

__________________
Yes, band camp is all it's cracked up to be.

So I like Chrono... So what?

highthief

It has also been at the core of most charitable endeavours over the last couple thousand years or so. Faith maintains billions of people around the world faced with crushing circumstances.

Like anything so large and complex, there is good and bad to organized religion - it is simplistic to think it is all bad or all good.

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.

lukethebandgeek

Perhaps it has done some good, but I have a really hard time ignoring the hipocracies and uncertainties.

I will grant that charity exists, but the caregivers help people while remembering thier agenda. There is a soup kitchen downtown where the hungry can eat, but only after they listen to an hour long fire and brimstone sermon.

That's the other thing. Hell. I can't fathom that humans could be created and due to mistakes in the 'earthly life' be doomed to torment forever.

I dislike the fear that religion generates about homosexuals, about women's sexuality, about other religions, and other cultures.

I dislike the emphasis on the "afterlife" which may not exist instead of the emphasis on this real life now.

__________________
Yes, band camp is all it's cracked up to be.

So I like Chrono... So what?

MSD

The way I see it, religious charity is spiritual blackmail. They will offer you help, but you must convert to their way of thinking. Even when devoutly religious, I questioned this, as I felt that as a good Christian and good Catholic, I was obliged to help others in need regardless of who they were.

highthief

Well, no, actually. thousands of churches and other spiritual groups have been providing everything from soup kitchens and food drives in modern, western urban centers to building hospitals in the third world to generally administering to the poor and sick for quite a long time, without any need to convert.

Are there religious organizations who may withhold aid to those not of their persuasion? I'm sure there are those who do. But again, when one makes a broad statement like "They will offer you help, but you must convert to their way of thinking" one is guilty of tarring every religion with the same brush as whichever church you had this moral dilemma with.

I'm agnostic, personally, but there are churches and other religious people and groups who do fantastic work without expecting a single thing in return. Blanket condemnation of all organized religion is as unwarranted as a blanket condemnation of the entire United States because you don't like George Bush's policies.

Again, you paint all religion with the same brush. Many large faiths do not preach about hell or an afterlife. Many religions have female pastors and there are several large branches of Christianity alone who recognize gay rights.

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.

warrrreagl

One of the biological characteristics of the human species is that we are self-organizing. Any random group of folks put together will organize themselves almost instantly, and some groups will do it better than others.

Although simple biology is what brings people together, the primary glue that holds them together is morality and ethics (so that they don't backstab each other and the social structure will not collapse). Religion has always served that purpose perfectly all over the world in all human cultures and societies.

When someone's belief system is challenged, it is essentially an attack on their basic biological structure and people instinctively defend the "glue" as the self-preservation of the organized society seeks to survive from within the human.

In other words, religion is so touchy to some people because it holds their very lives, families, and societies together. And survival is a treacherous thing to fuck with.

That's what I think.

__________________
Living is easy with eyes closed.

frogza

My sentiments exactly. I would add that if you wish to argue something as complex as religion gain more than the "pop culture" level of knowledge on the subject before debating.

flstf

I am not entirely an athiest and try to keep an open mind about things but I don't see how we can knock those who do not believe in god(s). There are many things I do not believe even though there is no proof of the negative.

It seems to me that believing in something requires a certain amount of proof but not believing in something until there is some proof is just standing pat. If someone speculates that the universe is just the class experiment of a student from an advanced civilization, I can't disprove it and will take the position of not believing it until some proof comes along.