Fire

Glad you made it out ok- a thing to note even though it has been said before- Grappling- ie judo, and any other form of wrestling has limited utility if you are outnumbered- everyone should learn how to grapple, but taking someone down when they have a buddy near is going to get you hurt, as you learned-

you got jumped, unaware, and are lucky you werent hurt much worse- shit happens, and training helps, but that is just one of those things... for self defense training, there is no magic bullet, but here are some guidelines that I have found useful in actual fights- many of these things have been said one way or another, and some you now know from hard experience, but for the sake of adding my meager expertise to the pile, here goes......

1- avoid a fight if you can- fights hurt, even when you win, and can ruin your life if you don't- you could not avoid this one, so learn from it
2- always be aware of your suroundings, and who and what is how near to you.
3- train hard, and for real world conditions- any martial art should do large ammounts of training in everyday clothes, and on a variety of surfaces- with the intent being to make your reflexes work reliably, without having to stop to evaluate how what you are wearing or what the terrain is effects your techniques
4- stay off the ground- people hit, stomp and kick you down there! that said, train to fight on the ground- too many classes either ignore it (the if you are on the ground, you are dead approach) or teach you to stay down, or worse, to "go to the ground" -cops do this because they want to subdue someone that they outnumber, and they have handcuffs to do it... armbars and other holds are great, but then what do you do with him-
5- you are not chuck norris, and should never kick anyone above the belt- it looks cool, but will get you hurt bad in real life......
6-cheat- all the time- this is not about fair, it is about living through it- anything that has reach is a weapon, and cant hurt to hit em with

finaly learn from this event- you just got more free experience than a lot of martial artists do in years in a few minutes- and you did not even get a hospital stay out of it- hell, I thought I could fight till I saw a guy get curb stomped in a brawl- then I realized how bad it can be, and ceased to care about anything but living through it....and you did, so you have a great start and an often lacking real world perspective....

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Scorps

I have been attacked kinda like that before, but I wasn't biking I was walking and it was one on one at first, but someone came up behind me at hit me witha baseball bat(thank god it was old and dryed out wooden bat)but it broke but still dropped me to my knees, but before they could get anygood kicks in I bagged the one guy then tripped the other that hit me. I mad sure the guy who hit me from behind got a good beating

So mines not as bad as your but there are morons out there looking for fights. Just glad to hear your ok.

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shakran

You keep thinkin' that then. . .



Look, when a football player screws up you don't hear people claiming that he couldn't be expected to keep his head in the heat of being tackled. They go over the video tape and work on what they can do better next time. There is absolutely no reason that you can't do that with fights, whether they're real or sparring. No, of course you don't see every opening or advantage, but maybe if you get those openings drilled into your head after missing them enough, you won't miss them so much.


Yes, I'm well aware of that. I'm also aware that the vast majority of people think that getting a blackbelt = invincible in a fight. Hopefully mentioning that you generally don't even start to really learn how to fight until you're already a black belt will help dispel that dangerous myth.



Unless your mugger has a knife and slits your students' throats, no, you don't simulate street fights accurately. You can't. You may come as close as you safely can, but you aren't simulating it accurately. It's impossible to simulate a street fight accurately and still guarantee that your students won't get maimed or killed. The important thing is to make sure your students realize this. Make sure they understand that on the street there are no rules. Knives, guns, gangs of 10 people, anything goes.

And then came out of it saying he'd take on someone if it was just one person. I understand that Jason was mugged, but he needs to understand that there aren't any guarantees when you get yourself into a real fight, and having the attitude that you'll take someone on for ANY reason is a good way to get yourself hurt. He needs to get rid of that attitude immediately.

I agree 100%. But it also taught me to avoid real fights like the plague. You will NEVER catch me saying I'd take someone on if there are any other options available at all.

raeanna74

The only time I got into a fight I also ended up on my back. I got lucky and got one kick in at my attacker's knee and luckily he backed off. It was someone I knew at the time though, not just some thug. Even so the scene replays in your mind so many times and it stays with you in every confrontation after.

Whatever you do, if you find yourself getting panic attacks or not being able to work past the adrenaline rush you get in every parking lot or similar setting, please find a counselor to share with. If not, you will be less prepared to handle it in the future.

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Sweetpea

Wow I'm so glad you made it away somewhat okay.

sweetpea

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Ch'i

True mastery trancends styles, but you keep thinkin' that then...

I can agree with that. Fighting, of any kind, is a great teacher. I took your last post as meaning that "he should have known better." But it looks like it wasn't, my mistake.

They don't know its not real, and that's what's important.

I took his saying he tried to take-down the guy as an insinctual response to fight back. I agree that he needs to rid himself of that attitude, but it takes time to learn how to do that. Like I said, its not easy for inexperienced, even experienced, people to keep a level head after getting jumped like that.

Well said.

shakran

Let's agree to disagree Although now that i think about it you really are saying about the same thing I'm saying. True mastery does transcend styles - it's just that IMO it's easier to get there if you take multiple styles rather than spending a decade or so locked in to doing only one style without realizing that sometimes whatever your style teaches might not be the best response. As an example if someone's swinging a knife at you, the standard knife disarm taught by the various American Tae Kwon Do schools will not be nearly as effective as a counter taught by a good kali school. On the other hand, a Muay Thai-style elbow destruction might be more effective at warding off a punch than something you learned in the Kali school. It's all about getting a versatile tool box.



Don't get me wrong. I think what you do is great - it's the same thing we do, and I'm sure it has the same effect of scaring the everlovin' crap out of the poor victim. However, the victim, on the rare occasions that he maintains enough presence of mind to fight back, never has to deal with a blade - at least, not a real one. That element of the actual street fight can't be included in the simulation. We've tried all sorts of crap, from using magic markers as knives (so you know where you were "cut") to using felt-lined sharkys with lipstick smeared on them (easier on the clothing). . . It's nice and sobering at the end of the simulation when the victim, who thinks he did OK against the knife, notices all the blood-red lipstick all over him from the 10 or so "cuts" he got. But even with all that, it's not 100% accurate.

I agree - in THIS case he was in the thick of battle, he's not real experienced, and he went with the wrong choice, but I'm not faulting him for that. Actually I was more troubled by his later statement: "On a side note, if it were ONE guy, I definitely taken him on, and possibly won. I’m 6’ 2” and a 230 pound weight lifter with 4 months of Jiu Jitsu practice, going at least 6 times a week (and as often as 9)."


Even ignoring the fact that he, very erroneously, thinks 4 months of martial arts class makes him ready for any kind of real fight, I think that statement shows that there's a very big lesson he should have learned from this fight that went right over his head. And that means the next time he gets into a similar situation he might just decide to go after the attacker instead of taking an available escape opportunity. I absolutely did get harsh with him on that - and if you think that was harsh, I get a lot more intense with my own students when they spout off crap like that. We're not talking about a typical male pissing contest down at the local bar to see who has the most testosterone, we're talking life and death here. The sooner you hammer in the hard facts about this, the more likely it is that he'll internalize it before he goes and gets himself seriously hurt by having the wrong attitude.


I really think you and I are saying pretty close to the same thing on this

Jason762

This was not a fight. This was a beating.

Now I DID try just taking the hits but they kept on with it. What do you do, lie there and continue to take them? I know I couldn't.

The ONLY reason I brought up my size and experience is because when you stack one with martial arts experience vs. one without, the guy with is most likely to suceed.

I never said that I was a kick ass macho ninja. YOU translated that. I just said I knew some. The reason i said I went for 4 months at least 6 times a week ws to prove I wasn't some rank newbie who went to one class and pretended to be an ultimate fighter.

Life and death. I'd rather die fighting, than die covering up asking "what are you doing to me" like I did for the first 10 seconds.

EDIT: That line about taking one guy on isn't just some random guy in the street, but rather one guy attacking me. I would've taken him on instead of curling up. Get what I'm saying? I don't walk around taking people on. In fact, I'm quite the opposite.

Zeraph

You already took shit from those two assholes who mugged you don't let anyone else give you shit for it, just ignore it.

Agree to disagree or whatever and move on guys.

Jason762

You're right. I'm sorry, but I just feel like I'm being made out to be the asshole.

Anyway, if the mods here could lock it, delete it, whatever, that'd be cool.

basmoq

This is why I carry my Kel Tec... and never carry cash... I've had one unsuccessful mugging attempt before and I plan for them all to be unsuccessful (gun trumps knive any day when they think your pulling a wallet out of your back pocket and they suddenly notice a barrel hiding in that leather

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jorgelito

What is a Kel Tec?

cj2112

Jason, you did everything you could. You should be proud of yourself.

Kel Tec is a firearms company that manufactures handguns designed for concealed carry (among other firearms). I also carry one. However, if they're reaching into your pocket and feeling the barrel of your gun, I'd say that your in a world of trouble. If you're going to carry concealed, some training on how to keep your weapon in your control during a fight, is a good idea.

shakran

No one in here, including me, is making you out to be an asshole. Noone here thinks you could have prevented what happened to you the other night. Where some of us, including me, are concerned is that your later statements indicate that the next time something like this happens, you might decide to fight it out even if there's a good escape route. Anyone who's been in enough real fights will tell you that is a VERY bad idea. All we're tryin' to do here is drive home the lesson that this fight should have taught you - - namely don't fight unless you absolutely have NO other choice.

Scorps

A really small gun:



Kel-Tyke
The Kel-Tec P32 .32 ACP Pistol

my dad used to have one, I could fit the whole thing in the palm of my hand.

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