Gov't wants to legislate for stupidity again - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

JustJess · 08-24-2006, 09:29 AM

Now, I'm not saying that a one-foot gap is safe. No, of course not. They should obviously fix that, and it shouldn't take them a huge study to do that. HOWEVER, this is a Darwin Award candidate. Yes, it's a tragedy that she died, and so young. Doesn't mean she's not stupid.

What do you think? Is there liability on the state's part for unsafe conditions? Am I an insensitive jerk? Discuss.

Metro Article from AP

Quote:

Following death, state will study space between trains, platforms
MANHATTAN State authorities said yesterday they'll study the safety of the gaps between commuter trains and platforms at 250 railroad stations following the death of a teenager who fell into one about a foot wide.
…
The comprehensive study is expected to take more than six months and could include recommendations such as widening train cars or installing moveable platforms at certain stations of the Metro-North Railroad and the Long Island Rail Road, the nation's two largest commuter rail services.
…
"I'm not going to rule out anything at this time," LIRR President James Dermody said during a news conference at the Woodside station in Queens, where an 18-year-old tourist from Minnesota was killed Aug. 5 after slipping through a gap and being struck by a train.

Willravel · 08-24-2006, 09:53 AM

Handrails and ramps. There, now pay me for the study.

How does it take 6 months to study something like this? Why do we spend so frivelously on things like this, but we can't afford textbooks that are younger than 20 years old?

Sultana · 08-24-2006, 10:07 AM

Well, god knows I've been clumsier than that, and fortunately have not had nearly as serious consequenses (would make it difficult to post this, heh). I certainly hope that slipping or falling or misstepping doesn't automatically mean one is stupid, or deservng of "withdrawl" from the gene pool.

'Cause then I'd fall into that one, too, I guess.

Overall, I concur with willravel's assessment. Now pay the man.

BadNick · 08-24-2006, 10:08 AM

Sad. But I'm thinking rather than her just being a below marginal human, maybe she was having a bad day and was not focused at the moment. I think it does take a lapse of normal consciousness to fall like that, but on the other hand, I recall quite a few times over the years noticing how large that gap between train and platform could be and then being extra cautious, I sort of even recall very slight "vertigo" looking down into that hole as the train was pulling into the station ...and I'm not even a vertigo type of guy, I climb up anything available and will go out on the roofs of any building even thru doors that have to be "persuaded" to cooperate.

Does my spin on it suggest that there is liability for this, I don't know since that's splitting the legal hairs finer than I can do. I'll ask my buddy who works for Metro North what they think.

Charlatan · 08-24-2006, 03:14 PM

All tourists just need to wear bigger shoes. Bigger shoes means they won't slip into holes.

Problem solved.

Of course, we know the real solution is to abolish all train travel completely. More private cars!

dogzilla · 08-24-2006, 03:51 PM

If there's a gap large enough for somebody to fall thru, it should be fixed. As far as the state having any liability, probably not, since people should watch where they are walking, especially in unfamiliar places.

When I was in London subways, there were constant reminders over the PA to 'mind the gap'. Maybe that's what's needed here.

analog · 08-24-2006, 04:20 PM

How do you fall through a one-foot-deep gap? That's one skinny person.

How about making all cars unable to go faster than 25mph? That would cut down on accident fatalities.

And stairs? Forget about it! They're so jagged and their corners are so harsh! Padding for the lot of them! And no flights higher than 3 steps!

spindles · 08-24-2006, 09:26 PM

Gotta say I'm with JustJess on this one. I've been falling down drunk and still managed to navigate the gap on train platforms. What a waste of money.

Gilda · 08-27-2006, 03:17 PM

I'm not seeing how this is even possible. The gap I can see--I think I could probably fit through a one foot gap. What I don't understand is how she gets hit by a train going the other way. Was there a train going the ohter direction between the train and the platform?

I can also see someone just having a bad day, or walking and talking, or just clumsy falling into a gap that size. I don't think it's necessarily stupidity.

Gilda

genuinegirly · 08-27-2006, 03:28 PM

I'm thinking along the same lines as Gilda. Anyone can have a bad day and take a mis-step.

A death is a valid reason to investigate train lines and look into streamlining our system.

cookmo · 08-27-2006, 03:29 PM

Quote:

And stairs? Forget about it! They're so jagged and their corners are so harsh! Padding for the lot of them! And no flights higher than 3 steps!

Padding! Do you really think thats enough? All stairs should immediately be removed and replaced with safety ramps!

warrrreagl · 08-28-2006, 06:00 AM

Accidents are mostly caused by human error and human activity can never be legislated into being idiot proof. This only leads to people who stop thinking for themselves, which in turn causes more accidents.

No regulation can cover every possible eventuality.

kutulu · 08-28-2006, 08:44 AM

Why is trying to make sure a horrible accident doesn't happen again a bad idea? Nobody is 100% aware of their surroundings 100% of the time. All it takes is a bit of bad luck at one of those times.

Willravel · 08-28-2006, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutulu

Why is trying to make sure a horrible accident doesn't happen again a bad idea? Nobody is 100% aware of their surroundings 100% of the time. All it takes is a bit of bad luck at one of those times.

I have no problem making things safer, but a 6 month study is a drain on funds better spent elsewhere. It takes me all of a few seconds to say, "Some people are clumsy, and therefore we should have ramps and handrails." That didn';t take 6 months.

hulk · 08-28-2006, 08:55 AM

No bull. After 6 months people forget, and the Govt can get back on to doing nada.

Val_1 · 08-28-2006, 09:28 AM

Not being a train rider, I have trouble visualizing this "gap" that is somehow positioned above speeding trains. But, guide rails do sound like they may help. I absolutely agree that a six month study is far stupider than the actual accident was. That's going to be a very expensive rail.

The_Jazz · 08-28-2006, 10:13 AM

For all the naysayers, I have a question - at what point does spending the money to find a workable solution become attractive? Is it a question of money? Is there a dollar amount you have in mind? A range?

Personally, I'm all for safer products and safer conditions, and I can point to a lot of things that have been knowingly left unresolved because folks just aren't willing to spend the money at the time. Then the lawsuit hits because someone was legitimately hurt.

As far as the OP goes, I don't think that the dead girl was necessarily stupid or a "Darwin Award Winner". It could have been wet and she slipped or she may have been reading while getting on the train. Both have happened to me in Chicago, but our gaps are much narrower.

This is the reason that folks that own large parking lots watch for potholes. They are trip hazards and having a dangerous condition on your property where you've invited the public opens you up to litigation.

magictoy · 08-29-2006, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrrreagl

Accidents are mostly caused by human error and human activity can never be legislated into being idiot proof. This only leads to people who stop thinking for themselves, which in turn causes more accidents.

No regulation can cover every possible eventuality.

Also expressed as "No matter how much you idiot-proof something, an ingenious idiot can always get around it."

MSD · 09-01-2006, 05:29 PM

I've ridden Metro North hundreds of times, and as clumsy and careless as I am (I once ran over my own foot while driving a car,) I never had a problem wtih the gap. There are big yellow decals that say "WATCH THE GAP" on the doors, and the edge of each platform is painted bright yellow to draw your attention downward. I've also never seen a gap wider than 6 or 8 inches.

Cynthetiq · 09-01-2006, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

I've ridden Metro North hundreds of times, and as clumsy and careless as I am (I once ran over my own foot while driving a car,) I never had a problem wtih the gap. There are big yellow decals that say "WATCH THE GAP" on the doors, and the edge of each platform is painted bright yellow to draw your attention downward. I've also never seen a gap wider than 6 or 8 inches.

I used to get off at the stop where she fell through.. it has wider than normal gaps, but I never fell myself because I always was afraid to fall through.

Psycho Dad · 09-01-2006, 06:27 PM

While I'm most often a fan of Darwin and his work. I'm not sure this is all to his credit. A one foot gap is quite the hop for some I suppose.

And this comprehensive study that is expected to take more than six months... I bet dollars to doughnuts it isn't going to be worth a fart in a whirlwind.

Cynthetiq · 11-21-2006, 12:46 PM

follow up LINK

Quote:

Report finds teen responsible for LIRR gap fall
BY JENNIFER MALONEY
Newsday Staff Writer

November 20, 2006, 11:35 PM EST
ALBANY -- A state investigation into the death of a Minnesota tourist who fell into a Long Island Rail Road gap at the Woodside station found that the inebriated teen likely was responsible for her own death.

The four-page report issued Monday by the state's Public Transportation Safety Board cited two probable causes of the August accident: Smead's actions and her alcohol-impaired state.

Natalie Smead, 18, who had been drinking alcohol with about a dozen friends before and during their train ride from Merrick in August, lost her balance while trying to hold a train door open, according to the report. She fell through the gap, crawled under the concrete platform and was struck by a train on the other side.

"Our finding is that the railroad was in compliance ... with state and federal law," in how it responded to the incident, said Thomas Madison Jr., board chairman and commissioner of the state Department of Transportation.

In addition, it met the state and industry standard for a minimum gap width of 7 inches, the report found, while noting that there is no standard for a maximum gap width.

"This certainly was a tragic and terrible accident and our heartfelt condolences go out to Ms. Smead's family ... Madison said. "We can do everything in our power to make sure that a system is safe and reliable, but there is always that variable of personal responsibility that's involved in these circumstances."

Bob Sullivan, the attorney for the Smead family, who have filed a $5 million lawsuit against the LIRR and its parent, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, said of the report: "Frankly, it's a disgrace. To put in, as the cause, alcohol and nothing else, is unbelievable."

Calling the report a cover-up, he said state investigators had relied on interviews conducted by MTA police. The MTA had, in effect, been investigating itself, he said.

The LIRR had no comment on the report, saying only that it was reviewing it.

The state probe is the first of several investigations into the death of the teen -- who died while visiting family on Long Island -- and the issue of wide platform gaps. According to Newsday measurements, gaps stretch as wide as 15 inches at some stations, and the LIRR has taken several measures to narrow them in the wake of Smead's death.

According to the report, the gap where Smead fell on Woodside's track 3 was between 7 7/8 inches and 8 1/2 inches -- which complies with state and industry standards requiring a minimum gap of 7 inches. Newsday measurements on the same track showed gaps stretching as wide as 11 inches in spots.

State Department of Transportation spokeswoman Jennifer Nelson said state investigators made their own measurements and conducted interviews before coming to the conclusion that Smead was largely responsible. They also used sworn statements taken by MTA police as well as federal investigators.

Natalie Smead's cousin, Colette Heefner, 17, of Merrick, who described the accident in a Newsday interview last week, said she spoke twice to an MTA investigator -- but has not been questioned by any other official. Heefner, who briefly held her cousin's hand after Smead fell, let go to hold the train doors open. In the report, Heefner is described in the report as Acquaintance No. 1.

"The young woman's acquaintances and railroad personnel immediately gathered about her, telling her not to move and that they would get her out," the report said.

But one minute later, after letting go of her cousin's hand, Smead crawled under the concrete platform and emerged on the other side just as an eastbound train was pulling into the station, according to the report.

The train's engineer saw Smead and slammed on the brakes, but could not stop in time, the report said.

"Normally, trains would be given a verbal message on the radio to slow down and be prepared to stop or come to a stop if the situation warranted it," said Jerry Shook, director of rail safety for the Public Transportation Safety Board. "There wasn't time to get the message out."

Sullivan questioned the accuracy of two measurements made by state investigators of the gap Smead fell through.

Two days after the accident, MTA police "positioned the train as close as possible to the spot where it had stopped on the afternoon of the accident," the report said. PTSB staff measured a 7 7/8-inch gap between the platform edge and the train door.

On Aug. 24, state investigators measured the distance between the center line of the track and the edge of the platform using the LIRR's track geometry vehicle, a measuring device. They measured a distance of 5-feet-8 1/2 inches, which corresponds to a gap of about 8 1/2 inches.

Newsday measurements along the same track have shown gaps of 9, 10 and 11 inches. The report did not specify where Smead fell.

Asked about the fact that no standard exists for a maximum safe gap width, Shook said: "I guess the bluntest way to put it is they're bound by common sense. Obviously, you would not have a gap of 12 feet."

Sullivan also questioned the New York City medical examiner's toxicology test cited in the report, which said Smead had a blood alcohol level of .23 percent. The blood-alcohol test was performed 90 minutes after Smead was struck by the train, according to the report. Smead received 9 pints of blood at Bellevue Hospital, Sullivan said. It is unclear whether the test was done before or after she received the blood.

Bill O'Rights · 11-21-2006, 01:57 PM

Ahhh...much more to the story than was first reported.

ratbastid · 11-21-2006, 02:34 PM

Quote:

According to the report, the gap where Smead fell on Woodside's track 3 was between 7 7/8 inches and 8 1/2 inches

Man, she must have been tiny.

analog · 11-21-2006, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Bob Sullivan [...] said of the report: "Frankly, it's a disgrace. To put in, as the cause, alcohol and nothing else, is unbelievable."

But that's what caused her death. Yes, she fell down under the train. If she'd stayed where she was, and not gone crawling around ON THE TRACKS, she'd most certainly have been fine. The gap where she fell had a STOPPED train on its tracks, and wasn't going to be moving immediately. They told her not to let go, but she crawled across a track, she got hit and died. Yes, it sucks, but she was drunk and didn't listen, and it cost her her life- that is not the fault of the railroad company.

Quote:

Sullivan also questioned the New York City medical examiner's toxicology test cited in the report, which said Smead had a blood alcohol level of .23 percent. The blood-alcohol test was performed 90 minutes after Smead was struck by the train, according to the report. Smead received 9 pints of blood at Bellevue Hospital, Sullivan said. It is unclear whether the test was done before or after she received the blood.

Blood Alcohol Content (BAC) is a percentage-based number, and would not be affected if the patient LOST blood. If the patient had been GIVEN blood, that would only make the BAC lower, not higher... and 0.23% BAC is very high by itself... consider that a lot of states deem 0.08% "impaired" for the purposes of designating "driving under the influence". 0.23% would mess anyone up, let alone an 18 year old skinny enough to fall through a 7 7/8" gap.

I'd also point out the obvious fact that the legal drinking age in the US is 21, not 18.

"This certainly was a tragic and terrible accident and our heartfelt condolences go out to Ms. Smead's family..." Madison (Thomas Madison Jr., board chairman and commissioner of the state Department of Transportation) said. "We can do everything in our power to make sure that a system is safe and reliable, but there is always that variable of personal responsibility that's involved in these circumstances."

YES!!! I'm so glad he articulated that point. There is that variable of personal responsibility- very well put.

beavstrokinoff · 11-22-2006, 10:31 AM

Holy shit, at .23% she must have been close to dieing from alcohol poisoning anyways.

Bill O'Rights · 11-22-2006, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beavstrokinoff

Holy shit, at .23% she must have been close to dieing from alcohol poisoning anyways.

No.
Death usually doesn't result until about .50. Most people pass out at about .30. That's one of natures little ways of protecting dumbasses. Of course, if you are drinking at a rate that is faster than it is absorbed into the bloodstream, then you can easily bypass this nifty little defense mechanism, slip into a coma and die.

In reality, at .23, she would've been obviously imebriated. Slurred speech, stumbling, what have you. It's sad, really. Completely, and totally, preventable. And not by the LIRR.

fhqwhgads · 11-22-2006, 11:28 AM

I once took a woman to the hospital for a psych evaluation, and she was walking, talking, and seemed just a slight bit intoxicated. (alcohol had nothing to do with the reason that I was taking her to the hospital. Threatening to hang herself the minute she was alone did...)

.44 BAC. Hardcore alcoholic...

cyrnel · 11-22-2006, 12:11 PM

I agree they should install rails on any exposed areas of the tracks. I've been on many trains and subways and find them terrifying. While we're at it we should install rails along roadsides. Those cars are close, and they aren't even constrained by tracks!

Quote:

"Frankly, it's a disgrace. To put in, as the cause, alcohol and nothing else, is unbelievable."

Absolutely. I suggest we accelerate testing asap. We can save funds by pulling random bar exam submitters as our crash-test-dummies.

JustJess · 11-27-2006, 08:38 AM

Wow. .23 on a kid that skinny... and that dumb...

I am going straight to hell.

Sultana · 11-27-2006, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJess

Wow. .23 on a kid that skinny... and that dumb...

I am going straight to hell.

Only if you're skinny enough to fit in that tiny chute.

DaElf · 11-28-2006, 11:45 AM

They want to have the study so more idoits don't fall into the gap and can then reproduce to have more idiots. Then the newborn idiots can grow up and hurt them selves which will lead to further studies. It's all a racket really.

Yakk · 11-28-2006, 12:59 PM

Most safety things happen because someone dies and they then retrofit a solution to prevent that death the next time.

Ever wonder why airplanes are safe? Lots of deaths, each one of which resulted in a procedure to make that death not happen.

Personally, I don't think they should rest until subways are safer than airplanes! Or, at least, the marginal cost of preventing one death is, say, 5 million 2005 dollars.

analog · 11-28-2006, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakk

Most safety things happen because someone dies and they then retrofit a solution to prevent that death the next time.

Ever wonder why airplanes are safe? Lots of deaths, each one of which resulted in a procedure to make that death not happen.

Personally, I don't think they should rest until subways are safer than airplanes! Or, at least, the marginal cost of preventing one death is, say, 5 million 2005 dollars.

Dude... we're not talking about public safety. This was a kid NOT of legal drinking age, VERY intoxicated, and SO SMALL that she fell through an ~8" gap.

On top of that, she then CRAWLED into the path of an oncoming train.

That is not a public safety issue. You cannot safeguard reality from every possible permutation of unknown stupidity, like was shown here.

While safety is a good aim to have, this is an asinine application of "precaution". This person's stupidity and drunkenness lead to a series of missteps that cost her life.

What I want to know is, who got her underage ass drunk?

oberon · 11-28-2006, 09:42 PM

That's besides the point. Trains are already safer than planes. Not much safer, but they are. America's full of litigious bastards it seems.

JustJess · 11-29-2006, 07:04 AM

Yeah - if her family wants to sue anyone, I'd say it's the idiot who got her/let her get so drunk she was insensible. If it was all her... well... I'd say that's natural selection for modern times. It's a shame she had to die due to being stupid, but that's exactly what happened. No one to blame here, really. Just her.

Yakk · 11-29-2006, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oberon

Trains are already safer than planes.

Cite?

Source:

Quote:

The accident rate for scheduled air services, measured in passenger fatalities per 100 million kilometres travelled, decreased from approximately 0.015 in 2003 to about 0.005 in 2004.

Source:

Quote:

Further, including trespassers but not suicides or people falling off bridges for rail, and all traffic accident casualties for roads, the comparative deaths per billion passenger-km are as follows.
(a) Rail
4.1

(b) Motorway
1.6

(c) Motorway and non-urban A-roads
5.0

(d) The latter excluding pedestrians, cyclists and motorbikes (classes of people seldom met with on railway alignments)
3.5

(e) All Roads with the same exclusion as at (d) above
2.8

1 billion air passanger-km in 2003 and 2004 (averaged) kills about 0.1 people.
1 billion rail passanger-km on rail kills 4.1 people on average.

That places Railways at 41 times more dangerous, per passanger-KM, than Airplanes.

Kaliena · 11-29-2006, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sultana

Only if you're skinny enough to fit in that tiny chute.

Priceless

shalafi · 11-29-2006, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Handrails and ramps. There, now pay me for the study.

No. The obvious solution is fatter people. Anyone not fatter than the gap will not be allowed to board the train.

Nimetic · 11-29-2006, 02:38 PM

A one foot gap seems huge... That's fairly rough design isn't it? Even accounting for express trains needing to speed by and needing room in case they're rocking slightly.

I would think that they could improve this slightly. If only for the elderly passengers and young kids.

08-24-2006, 10:07 AM	#3 (permalink)
Sultana Falling Angel Location: L.A. L.A. land	Well, god knows I've been clumsier than that, and fortunately have not had nearly as serious consequenses (would make it difficult to post this, heh). I certainly hope that slipping or falling or misstepping doesn't automatically mean one is stupid, or deservng of "withdrawl" from the gene pool. 'Cause then I'd fall into that one, too, I guess. Overall, I concur with willravel's assessment. Now pay the man. __________________ "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come." - Matt Groening My goal? To fulfill my potential.

08-24-2006, 03:14 PM	#5 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	All tourists just need to wear bigger shoes. Bigger shoes means they won't slip into holes. Problem solved. Of course, we know the real solution is to abolish all train travel completely. More private cars! __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

08-24-2006, 09:26 PM	#8 (permalink)
spindles Mine is an evil laugh Location: Sydney, Australia	Gotta say I'm with JustJess on this one. I've been falling down drunk and still managed to navigate the gap on train platforms. What a waste of money. __________________ who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?

08-27-2006, 03:17 PM	#9 (permalink)
Gilda 32 flavors and then some Location: Out on a wire.	I'm not seeing how this is even possible. The gap I can see--I think I could probably fit through a one foot gap. What I don't understand is how she gets hit by a train going the other way. Was there a train going the ohter direction between the train and the platform? I can also see someone just having a bad day, or walking and talking, or just clumsy falling into a gap that size. I don't think it's necessarily stupidity. Gilda __________________ I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert

08-27-2006, 03:28 PM	#10 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	I'm thinking along the same lines as Gilda. Anyone can have a bad day and take a mis-step. A death is a valid reason to investigate train lines and look into streamlining our system. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

08-24-2006, 09:53 AM	#2 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Handrails and ramps. There, now pay me for the study. How does it take 6 months to study something like this? Why do we spend so frivelously on things like this, but we can't afford textbooks that are younger than 20 years old?

08-24-2006, 10:08 AM	#4 (permalink)
BadNick Riding the Ocean Spray Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa	Sad. But I'm thinking rather than her just being a below marginal human, maybe she was having a bad day and was not focused at the moment. I think it does take a lapse of normal consciousness to fall like that, but on the other hand, I recall quite a few times over the years noticing how large that gap between train and platform could be and then being extra cautious, I sort of even recall very slight "vertigo" looking down into that hole as the train was pulling into the station ...and I'm not even a vertigo type of guy, I climb up anything available and will go out on the roofs of any building even thru doors that have to be "persuaded" to cooperate. Does my spin on it suggest that there is liability for this, I don't know since that's splitting the legal hairs finer than I can do. I'll ask my buddy who works for Metro North what they think.

08-24-2006, 03:51 PM	#6 (permalink)
dogzilla Junkie Location: New York	If there's a gap large enough for somebody to fall thru, it should be fixed. As far as the state having any liability, probably not, since people should watch where they are walking, especially in unfamiliar places. When I was in London subways, there were constant reminders over the PA to 'mind the gap'. Maybe that's what's needed here.

08-24-2006, 04:20 PM	#7 (permalink)
analog Banned	How do you fall through a one-foot-deep gap? That's one skinny person. How about making all cars unable to go faster than 25mph? That would cut down on accident fatalities. And stairs? Forget about it! They're so jagged and their corners are so harsh! Padding for the lot of them! And no flights higher than 3 steps!

08-28-2006, 06:00 AM	#12 (permalink)
warrrreagl pinche vato Location: backwater, Third World, land of cotton	Accidents are mostly caused by human error and human activity can never be legislated into being idiot proof. This only leads to people who stop thinking for themselves, which in turn causes more accidents. No regulation can cover every possible eventuality. __________________ Living is easy with eyes closed.

08-28-2006, 08:44 AM	#13 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	Why is trying to make sure a horrible accident doesn't happen again a bad idea? Nobody is 100% aware of their surroundings 100% of the time. All it takes is a bit of bad luck at one of those times.

08-28-2006, 08:55 AM	#15 (permalink)
hulk C'mon, just blow it. Location: Perth, Australia	No bull. After 6 months people forget, and the Govt can get back on to doing nada. __________________ "'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex." -- From an IGN game review.

08-28-2006, 09:28 AM	#16 (permalink)
Val_1 Addict Location: In a State of Denial	Not being a train rider, I have trouble visualizing this "gap" that is somehow positioned above speeding trains. But, guide rails do sound like they may help. I absolutely agree that a six month study is far stupider than the actual accident was. That's going to be a very expensive rail. __________________ I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. -Frank Sinatra

08-28-2006, 10:13 AM	#17 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	For all the naysayers, I have a question - at what point does spending the money to find a workable solution become attractive? Is it a question of money? Is there a dollar amount you have in mind? A range? Personally, I'm all for safer products and safer conditions, and I can point to a lot of things that have been knowingly left unresolved because folks just aren't willing to spend the money at the time. Then the lawsuit hits because someone was legitimately hurt. As far as the OP goes, I don't think that the dead girl was necessarily stupid or a "Darwin Award Winner". It could have been wet and she slipped or she may have been reading while getting on the train. Both have happened to me in Chicago, but our gaps are much narrower. This is the reason that folks that own large parking lots watch for potholes. They are trip hazards and having a dangerous condition on your property where you've invited the public opens you up to litigation. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

09-01-2006, 05:29 PM	#19 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	I've ridden Metro North hundreds of times, and as clumsy and careless as I am (I once ran over my own foot while driving a car,) I never had a problem wtih the gap. There are big yellow decals that say "WATCH THE GAP" on the doors, and the edge of each platform is painted bright yellow to draw your attention downward. I've also never seen a gap wider than 6 or 8 inches.

09-01-2006, 06:27 PM	#21 (permalink)
Psycho Dad Mulletproof Location: Some nucking fut house.	While I'm most often a fan of Darwin and his work. I'm not sure this is all to his credit. A one foot gap is quite the hop for some I suppose. And this comprehensive study that is expected to take more than six months... I bet dollars to doughnuts it isn't going to be worth a fart in a whirlwind. __________________ Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

11-21-2006, 01:57 PM	#23 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	Ahhh...much more to the story than was first reported. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

11-22-2006, 10:31 AM	#26 (permalink)
beavstrokinoff Tilted	Holy shit, at .23% she must have been close to dieing from alcohol poisoning anyways.

11-22-2006, 11:28 AM	#28 (permalink)
fhqwhgads Junkie	I once took a woman to the hospital for a psych evaluation, and she was walking, talking, and seemed just a slight bit intoxicated. (alcohol had nothing to do with the reason that I was taking her to the hospital. Threatening to hang herself the minute she was alone did...) .44 BAC. Hardcore alcoholic...

11-27-2006, 08:38 AM	#30 (permalink)
JustJess Unencapsulated Location: Kittyville	Wow. .23 on a kid that skinny... and that dumb... I am going straight to hell. __________________ My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

11-28-2006, 11:45 AM	#32 (permalink)
DaElf Tilted Location: Washington	They want to have the study so more idoits don't fall into the gap and can then reproduce to have more idiots. Then the newborn idiots can grow up and hurt them selves which will lead to further studies. It's all a racket really. __________________ I'm sitting at my desk right now waiting for you to reply to the above message.

11-28-2006, 12:59 PM	#33 (permalink)
Yakk Wehret Den Anfängen! Location: Ontario, Canada	Most safety things happen because someone dies and they then retrofit a solution to prevent that death the next time. Ever wonder why airplanes are safe? Lots of deaths, each one of which resulted in a procedure to make that death not happen. Personally, I don't think they should rest until subways are safer than airplanes! Or, at least, the marginal cost of preventing one death is, say, 5 million 2005 dollars. __________________ Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

11-28-2006, 09:42 PM	#35 (permalink)
oberon Quadrature Amplitude Modulator Location: Denver	That's besides the point. Trains are already safer than planes. Not much safer, but they are. America's full of litigious bastards it seems. __________________ "There are finer fish in the sea than have ever been caught." -- Irish proverb

11-29-2006, 07:04 AM	#36 (permalink)
JustJess Unencapsulated Location: Kittyville	Yeah - if her family wants to sue anyone, I'd say it's the idiot who got her/let her get so drunk she was insensible. If it was all her... well... I'd say that's natural selection for modern times. It's a shame she had to die due to being stupid, but that's exactly what happened. No one to blame here, really. Just her. __________________ My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

11-29-2006, 02:38 PM	#40 (permalink)
Nimetic Junkie Location: Melbourne, Australia	A one foot gap seems huge... That's fairly rough design isn't it? Even accounting for express trains needing to speed by and needing room in case they're rocking slightly. I would think that they could improve this slightly. If only for the elderly passengers and young kids.