Sage

From the CDC:
An estimated 30% of Americans over age 20 are obese, and 65% of Americans over age 20 are either overweight or obese (obese being defined as having a BMI of 30 or over).

In walking around every day, just here in Asheville, I see people who are so overweight it's a wonder their knees don't just buckle when they try to walk around. All of my aunts on my Dad's side of the family are obese, and one of my aunts literally ate herself to death- she was 500lbs+ when she died of internal organ failure due to an inability to regulate her diabeties. What I have a hard time wrapping my head around is at what point do people stop caring? I don't mean this in a malicious way at all, I genuinely would like to learn the perspective of people who's body weight is hazardous to their health.

I am not skinny. I am 6'0" and weight 250lbs (113kilos), wearing a size 18-20 jean. This is a new development for me, it being my heaviest weight ever, and I realize that I must do something about it. The point where I realized that I need to get smaller was when I went shopping and had to buy a size 20 jean... definitely in the "plus size" category. It bothers me to no end that I have all kinds of chunks everywhere that you can grab a handful of. I found my "breaking" point... so why doesn't everyone have a point where they look in the mirror and say "I really need to be serious about losing weight?"

My first inclination is to say that a majority of seriously overweight people have underlying psychological issues that result in them trying to "out-eat" their problems. However, I know that this is probably a grossly unfair observation. Some people have medical conditions that affect their metabolism, like diseases of the thyroid. It just boggles my mind that there are people in the world who not only are so overweight, but so incapable of dealing with their own issues, that we have a surgery to STAPLE THE STOMACH so that they can't eat as much. That's just... seriously showing the twisted nature of our society. Some people would say that society's pressures cause people to eat more, but no one is holding a gun to your head and telling you to clean your plate.

With such an emphasis on eating right- it being taught in health class, information being freely available on the internet, hell... McDonalds has a food pyramid on the wall in their resturante- it seems that it would be easy for anyone who wants to to lose weight. So why aren't they? If anyone here at TFP has a more personal perspective on this matter, please let your opnion and your expierence be known, because this is something I've wondered about for most of my life- espically after my aunt died.

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Willravel

As someone who has the experience of being addicted to both food and heroin I can say with confidence that health is only a minor consideration in the mind of many obese people, and that true food addiction can be related to an addiction to hard drugs. Imagine a dependence that goes deeper than breathing, into your very soul, and a craving that overcomes reason and thought. You know that eating those types of foods and that amount of food is wrong and will result in further loss of health, but that consideration is only tertiary compared to the craving.

I was once something like 235-240 pounds. My BMI was around 35. I would start diets all the time. I wouond't stick to them, of course, and I'd fooled myself into thinking that because I dieted for a few days or maybe a week, I sould be getting into good shape! Well I didn't get in to good shape at all. In fact, I got in worse shape because my diet was so inconsistant. Can you imagine 50% of the population of an entire country doing that? That's what's going on. Most people that buy diet books will do the diet for a bit, then slowly backslide into eating (and thus depression). Most people think "Oooh!! No carbs!!" and much down without actually reading the Atkins book. Some people think "Oooh!!! No fat!!" and chow down not knowing that carbs are usually replaced by sugar in low fat or nonfat foods. I'm just waiting or the low protien diet to sweep the nation with more undernourished people who can't break their addiction.

How do you beat it? For me it was a few things. A friend of mine, a drug dealer, was gunned down. I stopped drugs, food, and smoking right there and then. Combine that with years of therepy, and I still am fighting it 4 years later. Sometimes I splurge. I have to up my exercise routine when I do, and try to talk it out with someone (why would I splurge? there's always a reason).

Sage

Thanks so much for sharing willravel- this is exactly the POV I was hoping to get.

I totally understand the psychological side of food addiction, but what about people who aren't addicted to food on a level like you were? Are there people who just eat for the hell of it, not to fuel a psychological issue, but because they don't care? I know I got to a point where I felt like the only real joy I had in life was the variety of tastes and textures of food, and so I would eat because it was variety.

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Jinn

Most people don't care about their health as long as they can do their day-to-day acitivities with relative ease.

Can they still get to work?
Can they still get home?
Can they still go buy food?

They're set. And for some people, it's simply the time. Having worked a full time job and attended University full time, I can tell you that I would have been lucky to have an hour to sleep -- there's no way I'd have an hour to waste on my "health."

Some people are in a situation where they HAVE to work 3 jobs to support their children, and they don't exactly have time for themselves.

I'm not denigrating you in the least, but consider that social status or education might lend you a bit more time for "leisure" activities like working out.

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Ample

When I’m out in my town, I just don’t see over half of the people overweight or more, and I am a very observant person. Sometimes when I hear these numbers, I wonder if they have been fudged a little.

I used to be obese, and came down to an average size in a year. My problem wasn’t addiction like Wills, but I would just eat till I was completely stuffed. I’m sure a lot of folks are/were in the same boat as me.

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Jinn

Ample, keep in mind that while your specific location may be atypical, the CDC calculations are averages for the entire US Population. Metropolitan areas like Detroit are flawless examples of a large populace causing the average to sway the other direction.

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Sage

I'm not even talking about having time to "go to the gym." I'm simply talking about choosing better food to eat, eating less food, and perhaps choosing more active hobbies instead of more passive ones. I totally understand that some people don't have the time or the money to go to the gym. This isn't about the gym, it's about lifestyle.

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Jinn

Your argument is not completely, invalid, however.

From the CDC:

It seems they developed these experiments in a controlled fashion, but their statistical analysis truly falls apart because of their sample size. In the NHANES 1999-2002 study that they use to present the conclusion that 65% of America is obese, they used a sample size of 8,505 participants. Its a decent sample size, but it likely has a very weak correlative relationship with the 295-299 million people inhabiting the US.

So, two points -- your city is probably not indicative of the true normalized average of obesity, but neither is the CDC's estimation.

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Ample

Maybe the money part is true, but not time. I work two jobs, and often don't get home till nine to ten at night. First thing I do is run upstairs and throw on my work out clothes and hit the gym in my apartments. Tired? Somedays Im fine, and others Im beat, but I do it anyways. Everyone has time if they make the most of it.

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Jinn

As I said from personal experience above, its not specifically about the gym. If you don't have time for the gym, you dont have time for "active hobbies," or passive ones for that matter. Choosing better food truly means choosing more expensive "healthy" food or choosing meals that take longer to cook. Because truly, to someone who is busy.. TV dinners and fast food are the quickest way to eat during their busy schedule. If you're working 3 jobs, you don't exactly have time to go home and cook yourself a "real" dinner. 6 minute microwave dinner or McDonalds, it is.

I'm just saying that you still seem to be ignoring that quality of life, social status, and education greatly determine the time and money you have available to live a "healthy" and non-obese life.

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Ustwo

The solution is obvious...

EAT LESS FOOD

It is NO ones fault but their own if they are over weight. Its not the media, its not work, its not the reptiloids, its their own. If you know you are gaining weight you are eating to much food, if you keep eating that much you will keep gaining weight, eat less and it goes away. NO one is immune to this, NO one violates the laws of physics. If you eat less calories than your burn you will lose weight. If you don't either your body can't break down fat and you need to see a doctor ASAP or you are still eating too much.

Its not always fun, and there are days I overeat but when I get on the scale and I've gained weight its because of what I've done to myself.

Its about self control.

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newtx

I think its plain and simple procrastonation. I'll diet next week............before I turn 35..........etc. It's easy to eat what you want and incredibly hard not to. I have a hard time believing anyone plans to be obese.

ngdawg

I used to be heavy. When my chin disappeared and my knees gave out, I decided to take up my boss's wife offer of going with her to Weight Watchers. She quit after 3 weeks, I stuck to it and lost 45 lbs in 6 months. That was 7 years ago and I have never strayed more than 9 lbs over my final weigh-in.
I understand the hesitation of those who need to lose and don't do anything-I'm a smoker.
I also understand that unlike other addictions, we NEED food, you can't give it up entirely.
But, (and I almost hate to admit this) my patience for those who are truly obese and complain about their health while shoving in a Whopper with cheese is nil.
I have a nephew, 17 years old, 350 lbs and diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. Has he lost weight? nope. I blame his mom for much of the problem. Instead of coming home from school as a kid and having maybe a banana or even a couple of cookies, he'd down a few bologna sandwiches and half a bottle of soda. He wheezes with every step. The house shakes when he walks. He wears a 15EEE shoe. Another nephew is about 250 lbs at 20 years old. He too downs all kinds of junkfood and soda-always has. These are kids of normal-sized parents, although the second's father yo-yoed in weight. It's how they were raised.
A friend of mine had her stomach stapled after her doctor told her it was either that or die by Christmas-she was as round as she was tall. She almost died in the hospital after the surgery when her kidneys failed-diabetes had already set in. When I saw her last Christmas, she had come up to me and said hi-I didn't know who she was!! She'd lost 75 lbs in less than 5 months. Even though she almost died, she said she'd do it over again because she'd never felt so fantastic now. I am so proud of her.
It's one thing to be overweight (and I mean truly overweight, not some of those beauties who whine about being fat at 130 lbs) and complain and not do anything about it at all. It's another to realize both your limitations and potential, keep yourself in reasonable good health and not be thin. I worked on the thin part and still do somewhat-now I have to work on the health part.

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Jinn

I agree completely. However, the OP asked to "...learn the perspective of people who's body weight is hazardous to their health." I only offered potential explanations I believe morbidly obese persons would be likely to defend.

I find it interesting that a solution such as "eat less food" is an effective way to end obesity, but "thinking happy thoughts" is not an effective way to end depression. Why do you think this is?

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Ustwo

I think it depends on the person, but if it is a brain transmitter problem, saying 'be happy' won't work. Its like being drunk and thinking sober thoughts to be sober. You can try your best to seem sober, but there is only so much you can do.

Even if food addiction is real, you can use your willpower to overcome. I hungry right now, though I had enough for lunch. I'd like to eat more, very much so, but I'm not because I'm forcing myself not to as I have been 'bad' for a few weeks.

The other thing with food is the less you eat the less you feel you need. I don't eat as much as I used to because I don't WANT as much as I used to, my body no longer expects a 2000 calorie lunch, and if I try to eat that much I end up feeling like crap due to over eating.

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Jinn

How do you know that an eating disorder isn't also the mythological "brain transmitter problem" ? Saying "eat less" won't work. Either all addictions and disorders can be excused away with "chemical imbalance" or none can.

For example:

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Dane Bramage

Just eating less food is not the answer for everyone. Some people have physiological reasons that they are obese. Hormone imbalances, thyroid issues, etc. To just say "EAT LESS FOOD" is both foolish and insensitive. No everyone is obese because they eat to much. There are way to many factors to narrow it down to one thing.

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Willravel

I think more people are addicted to food than previously thought. The reason I say this is that I see the same patterns I saw in myself in so many others. Aparent apathy in diet can be symptomatic of depression. The 'f**k it, I don't care' attitude often means that someone is in denial. I've heard about the fat pride movement, which tells me that group think is alive and well. What heavy person wouldn't take the opportunity to be healthy? If I walked up to a fat person right now with a pill that could make them thin, I know they'd take it (there is an entire industry based on that claim). It's not easy being large in our society.

Ch'i

I'm 5'8" and used to weight 214 lbs, of which little was muscle. I'm now 165, and in the best shape I've ever been in. I can tell you right now that self control is crucial, but eating less is not as important as eating right. I, myself, have around 5-6 meals a day, and it is mainly the quality of what you are choosing in you meals that is the deciding factor in loosing fat. A majority of Americans today have little clue of what a healthy diet entails. For example: Atkins, Low Fat Diets. Those are very common diets, and they may help lose weight, but not in healthy manner. Seperating good carbohydrates from the bad is a must (fruits and veggies, not baked goods), and the bad fats from the good fats ( emphasize monounsaturated, polyunsaturated, and fatty acids; not saturated, or trans fats). The food pyramid is very outdated, so I do not recommend ever using it. Anyway...

A majority of Americans are fat because 1. The lack of persistence in diet or excercise regiments. Most people want fast results, so when they diet & excercise for a month and see little results, they usually quit, thinking that their program isn't correct, or something like that. The best advice I can give for maintaining a healthy lifestyle is this: Learn to enjoy the process of getting into better shape. Like life, staying healthy is a journey, not a destination! 2. Many Americans want to get into better shape, but lack in the knowledge of eating healthy, and proper excercise. And finally (the big one) 3. "Time to workout, but the O.C is on!". It isn't easy to miss your favorite TV show to go jogging, or take some of your free time to do tedious excercising when it would be so easy to just put it off until tommorow, and relax. Staying healthy means persistence. Changing the way you live isn't easy, but neither is walking around with all that constant reminding. It is definately, and majorly, a test of willpower. If you want to lose fat, and get healthier bad enough, then you can.

A few tips for anyone reading who wants to lose weight:
a.) Try working-out somewhere you enjoy going. If you look foward to working-out you're alot more likely to do it.
b.) Try smiling and staying relaxed when you excercise. Sounds funny but it works.
c.) Make a bet with your friend that you can stick to it. If you don't you owe them 100 dollars.
d.) Subscribe to Men's Health magazine, or visit www.menshealth.com. Their slogan is very true "Tons of useful stuff." I highly reccomend them.

frogza

You are right that there are people out there that have issues that make it extremely difficult to be thin, the numbers are so few though that it's hardly worth mentioning. The principle that he mentioned is true for everyone, if you burn more calories than you consume you will loose weight. End of story. Even people with hormone imbalances and thyroid problems are bound by that simple fact as neither one can create energy or calories without using food.

For the OP
I've never had the problem of being overweight, I have been on the underweight side my whole life. If I eat less than 3000 calories a day I lose weight. I have had many problems relating to being underweight, not counting the social issues of being an underweight male. I have friends who are in the same boat, some of us have done something about it, others haven't.

The simple reason is desire or lack thereof. One friend and I would lift weights for a couple of hours a day, we drank 2-3 weight gain shakes in addition to our normal meals, we watched what we ate. Now I'm 6'5 and weigh 200 lbs thats up from 120 lbs a few years ago.

I think that on both sides, the key is desire. If you want to watch tv more than get in shape, that's what you'll get. If you want to eat twinkies more than you want to be healthy, that's is where you'll end up.

ngdawg

Hormone and thyroid conditions are not the norm. My best friend does have a thyroid condition that she takes meds for-she's about 50 lbs overweight, but seeing her eat, it's not hard to understand why. Several nights a week she will eat only an apple and yogurt for dinner. But go out to eat and she will chow down everything in sight. At a buffet we went to, I tell no lie, her plate had to be 6 inches high with food.
Another friend knows that when she eats beef, the pounds will pack on...does she eat more chicken and greens? No. Her favorite dinner is steak and potatoes.
She has arthritis and a heart condition at the age of 52 and needs to lose probably 30 lbs.
The vast majority of us KNOW what we're doing wrong. It's not enough to say 'eat less food' because at some point, you won't. It's willpower and education and desire that will get you where you need to be to get healthy, but it has to be all three or one is doomed to fail.

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Sweetpea

I think things are often all about control. Especially with patterns of disordered eating, as is typical with individuals who are "overweight" by clinical standards.

I've had my share of food issues And i was about 40 pounds heavier than I am at this point. I had just gone through a breakup and i turned to food, I can certainly admit that it was a emotional high to not care about calories and to eat what i pleased. I was, however, recovering from anorexia at the time, so that may have also been a factor. I had control in letting go of my 'control' if that makes sense.

I think the point for me where i decided I needed to learn how to eat HEALTHY... not overeating or starving myself, I knew i needed to find a happy medium where my self esteem could flourish again and I could feel positive about how i was treating my body. It's making that connection that your body is an extension of YOU... and how do you want that extension to be? I knew, for myself, I saw myself as a fit and happy woman on the inside, not the overweight or underweight individual I was at different times. In projecting that image of myself, I was able to make the connection in my
excercise and eating habits.

having been on both ends of the weight spectrum, I can say that I wasn't happy at either and that's when i endeavored to find a happy medium for myself.

It took me a while, but now at 24, at 5'5" and 128lbs I feel like i've found that 'happy medium.' I eat properly, excercise daily and generally have a lot more energy and zest now that i'm treating my body with respect.

So, in short Sage, i'm not sure what clicked... but something does one day and that's the day things change.

sweetpea

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xepherys

I don't really understand a lot of what's been brought up here. First of all, I don't get addiction. My wife would say I'm "addicted" to video games, but if I go a week or more and don't touch one, I'm fine with it. I love food (and am slightly overweight), but I don't gorge myself, and if I go a day without eating much at all, I'm fine. I've never been a smoker or an alcoholic and have never had a drug addiction. Can you explain addiction to someone who's never had one? I liked willravel's comment about it being like the need for air, but I still don't really understand why someone can let something get the best of them like that.

As for the weight issue, many people seem to blame everything and everyone BUT themselves for their problems, and thusly feel they have no power to fix things about themselves that they don't like. It's rampant in American society... I'm fat because McDonald's sells my bad food, I'm fat because I work a lot and "can't" go to the gym, I'm fat because I have an eating disorder (this may not be your FAULT, but there's still something you can do about it), I'm fat because my genetics dictate I'm fat (bullshit! Just becuase your family is fat doesn't mean you HAVE to be). These are just some of the many "poor, poor, pitiful me" excuses that people seem to have. This extends outside of the weight issue as well, and is a key reason why Americans (though I am one) annoy the hell out of me.

You know what? If you don't like something, change it. If you won't change it (won't, not can't... you always CAN try to change things) then STFU. This isn't directed AT anyone here, but is my general view of such matters.

eribrav

xepherys said some things in a harsh tone, but the underlying truth is exact. Way too many people subscribe to the hormone/thyroid myth fantasy that excuses their slovenly habits.
Most fat Americans are fat because they are lazy and lack mental discipline that's needed to fix the problem. If you make eating less and exercising a priority and work hard at it, your weight will go down. I think where most people fail is the calorie expenditure part of the equation. They'll do anything to avoid vigorous physical activity. Face it, if you live life going from the couch to the SUV, to work, Mcdonalds and back home to the couch you are probably going to be fat.

Willravel

Count yourself lucky that you haven't experienced real addiction.

Let me ask you this: you're slightly overweight, yes? If I asked you to lose the extra pounds and keep them off for the rest of your life, could you? I know your first reaction will be "of course", but really think about it. Can you dedicate yourself to attaining a goal that won't be finished until you die? That's a serious commitment. Can you run or bike or lift weights consistently for your remaining years? Or let me ask you this: what's your favorite soul food? What is the one food that you love, but that doesn't love you back? McDonalds fries? Twinkies? Gum? Beer? Could you give up beer for the rest of your life?

Maybe my experience with heroin can help. Okay, I am in a waking dream all night, feeling empty and cold. I've been sober a day or two, and it's hurting badly. Imagine a headache with a purpous....driving you to use again. I wake up at 7 am finally, and have some breakfast. My apetite is kinda wierd, so my stomach hurts. All I can think about is how sober I am. I go to work or school and can't concentrate. Every waking moment there is an emptyness that overshadows whatever you think or do. It's not weakness. It's victimization, if anything. I've seen people stronger than I am succumb to addiction. Strength of will really has little to do with it. In my mind, luck and help are what really get you out of the hole. I don't know if I could have gotten out myself. It took the death of my best friend and the help of friends to get me out.

Whever I hear people suggest addiction is a lack of self control/willpower or lazyness, I chuckle to myself. It's like having a painting described to you by a blind man. The best explaination of the painting has to come from the artist.

streak_56

I remember when I moved to the US in Grade 11. I was 240 lbs... 5'5 and overweight. I was tired with how I looked. So, my mom helped me a ton... she taught me how to eat healthy which was a big thing with me and what she left to me was exercise. I wanted to make a change... and I think thats a big difference between myself and "obese" people. They don't want to change, they either want to figure out a quick fix or just live with it and deal with it when it comes around.

Now saying that.... the appearence of "fat" people to me is a relative term. I feel that if someone is happy with the way they are, I don't want to change them. Now saying that, it doesn't mean that encourage... rather I discourage it. I try to eat healthy and get exercise on a regular basis. And I think that pills or surgery doesn't fix problems... rather just creates more problems with healthcare costs, psychological eating disorders (if present) and personal image.

xepherys

Well, I don't know because I've not tried, but I don't see why not. My favorite food that doesn't love me back? Probably potato chips. And yeah, I could go without. I usually enjoy "healthier" foods anyhow. I LOVE thai food, and mostly cook it at home. It's easy, cheap and pretty damned healthy. The bulk of my weight is due to lack of exercise, but said lack is 100% my own doing. I have a gym membership, which I underuse greatly. There's a lot of awesome mountain hiking nearby that I've donw, but not with regularity. Why? Well, at the end of the day, I want to go home and see my wife and baby. I don't really care to do much outside of that. I make some dinner, eat with them and watch a bit of TV or play a game before bed. Weekends are much busier, but again I mostly fill that time with less physically active stuff. I could easily blame the heat, but it'd only be an excuse. I'm not HAPPY with my weight, but it's also not so bad that I suffer emotionally from not have a 32" waist. If I got to that point, I'm sure it'd light a fire under my ass. Also, I do what I can to NOT get to that point because I never want to be there.


I still don't understand, but maybe I never will. I disagree, IMHO, that strength doesn't play a big role. To assume "luck" is a key ingredient to beating addiction, and strength is not plays greatly into my above stated theory that it's a crutch or excuse to use until you take responsibility for it yourself. Both my parents were smokers. My mom used to drink a lot and my dad was a raging alcoholic (alcoholism "runs" in my family... *bullshit*) and he ended up dying of a drug and alcohol overdose when I was 16 or 17. I grew up in a lower-middle class, blue collar neighborhood. Despite all of those things, I never smoked or did drugs and only ever drank socially and within a VERY reasonable limit. You'll note my use of quotes above. Can alcoholism really be GENETIC? I dunno, maybe, but the jury is still out on that for me. I didn't WANT to be a drunk that so many of my relatives were. I didn't WANT to stink like cigarettes. That sounds like will to me, not luck. I think letting yourself GET addicted shows that alck of will. Perhaps getting unaddicted takes something more. This is, by no means, a personal attack, either. Just my thoughts on the subject.

Sometimes the beggar is wiser than the businessman. The viewer can often give insight to the work that the artist hadn't previously seen.

Willravel

I know I was addicted to something, and I think I uderstand it pretty well both because I was addicted, and because I came out of it. I can tell you that will power only played a small role in my experience. I know that luck played into my getting out of my hole. It's not a cruch, because I did get over both my addictions. Maybe it's like this: there are tools available to certian people in order to get over addiction. Maybe will power would work for you, maybe it wouldn't. I know will power didn't work for me because I tried to kick the habit again and again and again to no avail. It took the catalyst of losing my friend, not will power, to shake me from my addiction. Fear was the motivator, not strength of will.

As for addiction being genetic, yes, in some cases it is. In some cases it's not. Speaking as a son of a doctor in psych, I can say with confidence that some people have a tendency to be proned to addiction because of their genetics. If your parent is addicted to something, it is not a guerentee that you will be proned to addiction.
I guess my metaphore doesn't hold up. Let's say I get my foot ran over by a car. Later I'm in a conversation about the feeling of having your foot be run over by things (these things come up). I can describe with accuracy each step and feeling of my experience in great detail. Others can guess what it would be like to get their foot run over by stuff, but they lack experience.

greytone

I have not posted much for the last year and a half because of work and schedule issues that have really kept me busy (and limited any exercise) but as a physician with a BMI of about 38 I feel like I have something to add to the discussion. I have always believed that people must have some size at which they say "This is it, I have to get serious about my weight." What is amazing is that this is so different for different people. I believe there are personal, psychological, and cultural influences on this for each of us. I think I am about there now, because I am at the cusp of having to go to the Big and Tall shops.

A lot of people talk about "metabolism" but we really do have a way to affect our metabolisms. The most important way is that our basal caloric needs are increased when we build muscle mass through resistance exercise. Thyroid disease has to go untreated for a very long time to have any effect. I see plenty of overweight people who are hyperthyroid (the disease should lead to weight loss) but manage to overeat their disease. A few lucky people have a lot of "brown fat" which wastes food energy as heat. We know of no way to make us grow more of this mitochondrial rich tissue.

The average person is woefully ill informed about how much they should eat and also about how much energy there is in various foods. Most people still think you can "get energy" from vitamins. People tell me all the time "I hardly eat anything." But if they are gaining weight, they are consuming more calories than they are burning. It really is as simple as that. The trouble is, it is really hard to safely get your calorie intake below 1200 Cal. When people accomplish that and still can't lose I am at a loss as to what to tell them.

People eat for all kinds of reasons. In today's world we rarely have hunger as as sole motivator. We eat because it tastes and feels good. We eat together as dining is central to so many social events. We celebrate holidays and major events with specific foods. Most of these are not very healthy. If we have a problem with eating too much, we can not simply give up eating. We still have to make constant choices about what and how much to eat; and we must do so in a social context that does not give offense to our hosts or family.

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I was there to see beautiful naked women. So was everybody else. It's a common failing.
Robert A Heinlein in "They Do It With Mirrors"

Willravel

Greytone, that's a great post.

xepherys

willravel, thanks for your additional comments. I appreciate you sharing your experiences and also for keeping a level head and not being offended. I agree that I probably can't understand because it's never happened to me. It's certainly something to ponder.

Willravel

Maybe you do understand and I don't know what I'm talking about, I dunno. Honestly, who's to say? It's possible that every experience is unique and thus generalizing about it doesn't really help.

Meanwhile, I'm glad you've never been addicted to anything.

Ustwo

Will, just to be clear, are you putting a food addiction on the same level as a heroine addiction?

If so that seems a bit extreme a comparison.

Really I think most people don't lose weight because it doesn't matter THAT much to them. You might hate how you look, you might want it to change, but not enough to put the real effort in.

While I don't have a weight issue currently, I am out of shape, I know it, I really don't like it, I know I need to work on cardo badly, I know its not good for my health, I even did a 'to do' type list with it on it for the week. That being said I haven't done any serious cardio, despite my promise to myself, because its not something I WANT to do, even though I know I NEED to do it.

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Willravel

I am comparing them, not putting them on the same level. Like comparing a Corvette to a McLaren F1. They are both quite something, and can be compared in same ways, but one is obviously more serious than the other.
Use your self control to make it something you want to do.

Ustwo

But thats my point entirely. I wanted to lose some weight last year because it made me LOOk bad. I didn't like my image. Now I look pretty good.

On the other hand I NEED to get more exercise, but I do not want to do it. I find it boring and it takes time away from things I'd rather be doing, which just so happens to be anything besides exercise.

So while losing weight took will power, it took me really wanting to use that willpower to do it.

Exerise would take will power too, but unless I want to do it, its not going to happen.

We humans are very selfish creatures, even when doing the right thing we do it for selfish reasons. A saint is a saint because being such a person give them more pleasure or less pain than being evil. A fit person exercises and the like because it makes them happier than not doing it.

For people who are over weight and claim to hate it, they may hate it but they don't hate it as much as not being able to eat too much. This is where I say if you really hate it, then just stop it, if you don't, you really don't hate it enough. Be fat and happy, but don't blame things beyond yourself for why you are fat. Its childish to think you can always have your cake and eat it too :

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

highthief

I think people get too caught up in "standard" weight loss exercises - running, cardio classes, weight training, etc that involve a lot of repetition and, if you're not really into it, boredom.

There are tons of activities out there that will not be boring and that can help people get into shape - hockey, soccer, rock climbing, kayaking, cycling, tennis, squash, rowing, rugby, dance, hiking, white water rafting, swimming, and many more. Do something you enjoy or have always wanted to try.

Additonally, psychologically and physiologically, once you have done an activity 3 or 4 times a week for about 4 weeks, it becomes a habit - by that I mean to say that your body and mind have now become accustomed to and craves the endorphin boost that results from exercise. If you can stick it out through a program for a month 3 or 4 times a week, it become second nature and a desired activity.

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

raeanna74

Last year during the summer I was having trouble loosing the weight that I had gained when I was sedentary and recovering from surgery and then a broken foot. I was trying quite unsuccessfully. After going about 2 weeks of eating no more than 900 calories a day (I was even documenting the licks of the spoons when I was cooking) and seeing no results. At that time I was making sure that I was doing some sort of aerobic activity or exercise every day. I went bike riding, for a brisk walk, to the playground with the kids and played tag, trotted up and down my second floor stairs 10 times, ANYTHING. But what happened?? I actually GAINED. I still don't fully know why.

When I asked the Dr (not my regular Dr - I consider this one a quack) what I could do and told him what I was (or wasn't) eating. His reply was "just don't eat as much." I asked if that wouldn't be dangerous as I was already only eating 900 calories a day AND exercising for at least 20 min a day. He just sortof ignored my question and said "Just don't eat." How is that supposed to help?!

I went to the Dr's and asked for a thyroid test, It came back only slightly low. It wasn't long after that when I discovered that BC pills can hamper thyroid function slightly. So I got my tubes tied and went off BC. After that the weight gain at least STOPPED. It was still nearly impossible to loose much though.

I didn't start loosing until I started working for my dad. For a while there I was doing heavy labor, construction work, for 8-10 hours a day in about 90 degree heat (one 10 hr day was in 102 degrees at the peak hours) and managed to loose 5 lbs in one week. That weight didn't come back surprisingly. Though I suspected that some of it was a result of dehydration.

I have actually been able to loose more weight in the past month when I developed a hankering for a fried (not with oil - just on an iron skillet) egg and piece of buttered toast for my afternoon snacks. It didn't bump me over the 1300 calories that I try to stay with but that high particular snack has not made me gain any weight. In fact in the past month I have lost 7 lbs eating this way and doing the same amount of exercise as I was doing last summer. My thyroid is functioning better. I'm taking a multivitamin and additional Iron and Iodine suppliments because I'm chronically anemic. Beyond a small INCREASE in calories, I have not changed my diet from last summer. Yet my weight is slowly going in the opposite direction from where it was going.

Weight, food, exercise, and hormones are so intricately intertwined and it's hard to get the right balance. Chemicals that we eat, medications we take, antidepressants (more people are on these than ever before) and other things cause people to gain weight easier.

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"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

fresnelly

I like Ustwo's distinction between our sense of Need and Want with respect to motivation.

I'm faced with Need every so often, yet Want seems to pulse through my veins.

I only face the Need to deal with my expanding belly when I look in the mirror in the morning, or when my usual pants don't fit anymore, or at my regular doctor's appointment. On the other hand, I Want all day every day. Right now I want a chocolate chip cookie or two. That or fried mozzarella. I can imagine the taste and texture exactly.

I think I'm reaching my turning point though. I can now sense my belly's presence as I sit at my desk all day. I Need to lose weight and I Want to eliminate that nagging discomfort.

I'll keep you posted.

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Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

Sultana

I think this is a big part of what keeps people "fat and happy", as it were, although yeah, I'd question the "happy". But you know what I mean. Perhaps "in denial" is a more accurate, if less catchy, phrase.

While I was in Weight Watchers, so many of the other folks in the meetings with me said that what caused them to start the program was seeing a picture of themselves. It was not uncommon to hear, "I looked at a picture of a bunch of my friends and wondered, "Who is that fat chick in the photo?', and realizing it was *me!*" or something along those lines.

Many people are in denial about their weight and level of fitness. And often it takes an unexpected objective look for them to break past that. They may be unhappy with how they look, or how their clothes fit, but like Ustwo said, they aren't unhappy enough to take the very difficult action of losing weight.

The actions needed to lose weight are relatively easy (Eat less, exercize more), however the execution of those actions are difficult and complex.

For what it's worth, my trainer told me that to seriously re-shape your body, you must plan on a MINIMUM ONE HOUR A DAY, FIVE DAYS A WEEK, of aerobic, fat burning activity. That does not include the weight lifting. So when I started my "fitness frenzy", as the hubby calls it, I dedicated 2 hours a day to my fitness plan. Oh, and of course that means changing my eating habits as well. Fortunately maintenance does not require quite so much effort, and I lived for the day when I'd be maintaning rather than losing.

Eventually I lost 35 pounds (and have kept it off-rare!) and completely re-sculpted my body. Yes, it was incredibly hard work and a lot of dedication and time invested (continuing as well). But *nothing* compares to being happy with my body (an American woman, content with her bod? wtf?), how I look and how I feel, and with what I can accomplish, for the first time in my life. No food taste is better than that. No amount of free time (spent in front of the computer or the tv) is better than that.

So there you go. Priorities.

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

highthief

It can be that when you eat too little, your body will store body fat against what it perceives as starvation. Generally, you will still lose weight on a very low cal diet, but your Body Fat percentage can actually go up you shed muscle and hoard fat. I prefer a more moderate diet combined with higher levels of exercise to shed weight.

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.