Foiled plane attacks (NSFW)
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4780815.stm


I mean FFS, if you want to blow yourself up thats fine, go do it up a mountain or on a dingy in the atlantic with a few of your other terrorists mates.

DO NOT do it just before i have to fraking fly from one of these airports and make my long ass flight even longer.

They better pray i don't get into power one day, because retroactive death penalties are the name of my game right now.:mad:

I think the question we should all be asking is "UK Panel Asks: Why Do They Hate Airplanes?"

And I agree. It's pretty vile. My mom and sister flew home a few weeks ago from London after a trip, and I'd be tempted to join the marines if they had been blown up on a flight.

I do not understand the mentality of the terrorists who want to do this. It's so illogical to me. If their cause is to get back at the U.S. for the wars we've participated in over there, well they're not succeeding too well. By trying to board planes with both Americans and I'm sure quite a few foreigners aboard, they are then threatening those foreigners. They will make no friends in other countries if they try this anymore. They are only going to succeed in encouraging other countries to hunt them down as well.

As for Scotland Yard - kudos to them for their hard work and effort put into stopping these people. Good job.

I think that the point is that they do this so that other people will notice them. ;)

Of course, now they've got all that sought after press, and attention, without ever having to blow up anything. It's kind of a win-win scenario, if you look at it that way.

Seriously...it's nice to know that someone was on the ball, doing their job, and thwarted these asswipes.

Ok that made my chuckle :lol:

Im really suprised how long it took for this to show up here today....I fully expected to log in at 630 this morning and see something...its easier for me to just paste what I've said elsewhere

Im afraid (and I dont me the "im afraid for my life kind of afraid)....Im terribly afraid that with all the touting that this has been thrawted we are going to be proven terribly wrong. About two weeks ago I had one of my premonitions....those of you that know about these know that I dont dream what exactly is going to happen...in fact I dont even remember the dreams, its the feeling I have when I wake up. The last two times were the bombings in london last summer and the tsunami (so as you can see its just something "catesthrophic" whether its an act of god or madmen. I have dreaded getting up every morning and turning on the radio because I was afraid of what I was going to hear.

This morning when I cut it on and all I hear was british journalists reporting from Heathrow, I was like...ok this is it....what happened.

Thankfully, so far, it IS nothing. But then my mind starts *working* Say what you will about Bin Laden....but he is not a stupid man.....911 was not thought out and planned by someone without brains. What if what has happened today is a diversion? What if this is their way of making us focus on something else, somewhere else in the world while they silently go on with their REAL plans?

That is what scares the hell out of me....that and this feeling of *dread* that wont go away. The *world* is so excited because they stopped this reported attack....I just hope they keep their guard up everwhere.

That's what I've been thinking too...what if they're all just so busy patting themselves on a back for a job well done that they don't notice what's going on behind the curtain?

Personally, I think whatever they do--it would have to be a whole heck of a lot bigger than 9/11 to have the same impact--and that scares the shit out of me.

I'm just hearing about this...what happened? Is there actually proof this time that there were actually plans to carry out terrorism, or is this just more innuendo? It's come to the point now where I take everything I hear with a grain of salt.

what i heard this morning - they -- whomever THEY is- were watching the would be terrorists for a while... and when they booked the flights -thats when they moved in...

What the plan was... and it's rather genius... was to have three people each come on the plane with a specific ingredient - that in itself wouldn't attract attention.. then on board - the three people would meet up and make the explosive and blow up the plane. this would have happened on at least 9 planes (continental, american and united were the airlines targeted)... the first 3 planes would happen in hour 1- then the next three in hour 2- then the last 3 -

I don't think the world is excited because the attack was stopped, its excited because its a reminder that the danger is in fact real. People have short memories, there has been a lot of talk about the threat not being real, and it is just a political tool by some politicians. Some people will say this is itself just an extention of that, but for the rest of us its just a sobering reminder that this isn't just a verbal debate. I don't think anyone involved is really brealthing much of a sigh of relief and assuming all danger is past.

I recall reading several years ago that they wanted to try a plan like this prior to 9/11 but it was partially discovered and called off. I forget the details, but this plan isn't really new. I always wondered why they didn't pay much attention to what was in containers in carry on bags, I'm glad they now will be.

I'm sure there are more aspects to it than just this, especially considering politics and wars and suffering and strife in much of the world, but to me it seems explainable even just within the context of "the West" and its culture and ideas are "the devil" and it is our duty as specifically told to us by "god" that we must kill all the infidels. Then the Taliban ...or such mentality... will take over the world and make it a better place :love:

Give them back their ingredients and put them in a concrete bunker without food or water. Then they can blow themselves up to avoid starvation. The world is down a few wackos and they get to blow up, its a win/win as far as I can see

From what I just read their plan was to use liquid explosives that were dyed red into powerade bottles and then use the flash on a disposable camera to trigger it.

And now, no f(*&ing liquids are allowed on planes. The stewardess is going to be pissed with the number of times I request water when we travel on this Saturday.

Next, we'll have to be straight-jacketed into our seats, for "security" purposes. The terrorists don't have to succeed in the explosions in order to win.

Yes because if you don't get to bring water on the plane, the terrorists have won.

There have been several of these types of plots foiled in the past. One guy tried to bring on nitroglycerin in an eyeglass cleaner bottle and trigger it with a flashbulb. Another tried to use a peroxide solution to create some sort of explosive that would have been set off with a walkman (this was back in the day).

The tecnology isn't new, but it was going to be a larger plot, which is why it was big news. It should be interesting to see how this shakes out and who gets identified as the masterminds, etc.

crap,maybe I will take amtrak to chicago next week...

:eyeroll:

I can't imagine that this measure will last long... what about all the vendors in the airport terminal... are they shut down?

Since everything bad about terrorists has been said and will be said forever, I'll add something diversionary.

I'm waiting for the day when I turn on CNN and hear: "Authorities have uncovered a plot by terrorists to blow up airplanes using bombs made out of clothing. The Department of Homeland Security is now banning clothing on all flights and no one will be allowed to carry-on or check in clothing of any type."

:lol: Ahh, comic relief. I actually had the SAME thought earlier today... what if we all end up flying naked someday, with security checks consisting of cavity searches??? :eek: :eek: :eek:

Um... Awesome? :thumbsup:

Already there
http://intraa.tgcrossroads.org/conne...s/xray_pic.jpg

some people, like me, do the world a favor by not appearing nekkid.. there are some people who just shouldn't be nekkid in public... :D seriously... you wanna get on a plane with your momma and your daddy when they are all nekkid? how about iwth my parents? :D

i guess i'm not all that relieved after all

http://www.xopl.com/blog/2006/08/10/crockofshit.html

http://www.xopl.com/blog/embedded/liquidshit.jpg

I certainly hope the alleged plotters sue the hell out of the British, US, and any other governments they can think of. After all, the wiretaps and other measures that were obviously used to detect them were a huge violation of their human rights.

And there better be an immediate order for sufficient Korans for these poor people to read while they're locked up.

Do you have a link to the news article that explains how the specific wire taps that Bush bypassed the FISA court for were used to catch the alleged plotters? No? Hmmm, then that makes your post....something.....what's that called again? Oh, yes! Flame bait! Good old flame bait.

Thanks for contributing.

Um... right.

First of all international calls are not protected by the bill of rights.

Second of all the bill of rights are not in England.

Third of all it's been released that much of the information was from Pakistan... they sure as hell dont have a bill of rights. And you have fun suing Pakistan for breaking them.

And finally I seriously doubt you'd find a judge who looks at the suit and doesn't simply toss it out.

No offense Seaver, but I think Marv was being sarcastic.

Seaver, I know some members of TFP are crazy enough to think like that, but Marv is one of the good guys, remember :lol:

All I can say is I'm glad i'm not in the UK.. you'd have to sedate me with some pretty heavy duty drugs if you'd expect me to sit my behind in a seat on aplane with lots of people who are just bound to annoy me without a means to entertain myself...No Ipods or any other electronics?

If I honestly thought that it was keeping us 'safer' i'd be all over it supporting it - but it's not -- if someone wants to get something on board a plane... they will...

I turn on the news last night/ this morning, and what do I here from every single interview/sound bite from every government official. Sure some stuff about the plot, but I always here WE ARE AT WAR with Islamic fundamentalist. They are doing a very good job at pounding in our heads that we are supposed to be scared. Sometimes I wonder if the terrorist plan there attracts around our political calendar, cause that is the only time when we are not safe. With the elections only a few months away, I’m sure that this is the tip of the iceberg. Then we will have two years of no plots before the cycle picks up again.

I'm just pissed off that I have to travel overnight next week. It would be one thing if I didn't have to stay, but all my appointments are set. Since I'm playing golf in someone's tournament, I guess I'll have to pack my dop kit in with my clubs since they won't let me take it on the plane. I'm not pissed off at the TSA (incompetent as they are), but it's a big inconvenience. I hate checking luggage anyway, so I guess that my future holds more day trips, which should be interesting when I have to go to Boston or Vegas or San Diego.

Terrorists suck.

trickyy, is that a spoof website? If it isn't, that just proves how incapable governments are of handling terrorism. Even if the terrorist threat wasn't manufactured by intelligence agencies, they wouldn't be capable of keeping people safe anyway.

I can't believe this is where we are at. Americans running around in fear of everything. How pathetic.

Its a blog sam, relax and return to your bunker.

So your opinion is they do nothing? or is it do anything they want, so long as its no inconvenience?

Sorry Marv, sometimes hard to tell sarcasm over forums.

And to everyone saying how "scared" we're supposed to be, you are overestimating it. I support the WoT fully and I dont feel a bit of fear. IMO there's nothing they can do that a pen to the eye couldn't fix... and pens are still legal on planes.

What are they really doing other than inconvencing people... (the entire world revolves around me- the sooner peopel realize that the better off we'll all be)

This is nothing more than an attempt at PR to show the average person -- see it's safe to fly - ok so it might be a pain it the behind but we're keeping you safe...

I say again, if a person wants to bring somethig on board a plane-- they will - and no amount of security will stop it..

I take that as option A? They do not attempt to save peoples lives.

Mal I really am surprised to hear you of all people saying this because, despite what you say, you are one of the sane ones. Do you think that things would be the same if they removed airport security all together?

Mal, your argument sounds like "if someone wants to break into my house, they'll do it. I might as well not even lock it."

Prevention isn't pointless, even if you think the probability of protection is slim -- it's more than 0%.

I would not want to have to deal with Heathrow. No carry-on luggage?
THOUSANDS of flights cancelled? Dangit, I don't want to deal with that sort of hassle. Good think I'm not planning on flying internationally anytime soon.

I have an extremely low opinion of airline security... I've had entirely too many incidents where I've gotten on board a flight with something that I never should have been allowed to get on board with (blow torch w/ fuel, 6 inch chef's knife, fairly large swiss army knife that was in the hand of the security agent as she hand searched my bag two weeks after 9/11) and things that have been confiscated... Tweezers (by the same guard who didn't see the swiss army knife in her hand) a plastic knife that wouldn't cut butter, a key.

Would we be better off without airport security? No probably not. But is confiscating water bottles going to help anything? No.

There's got to be a better way than what's being done... Do I have a solution? No, of course not, it's easier just to sit on an internet forum and think I know everything...

If someone has the intent of doing evil... they will do it.

I do wonder if the time will come when everybody is strip searched and have all their body cavities checked. I mentioned this to my parents yesterday who are supposed to be flying in December. Needless to say, they were not happy with me.

Other countries deal with terror attacks all the time. While Isreal is having it's own problems right now, they have some of the best airline security because they don't put up with anybodies nonsense that wants to get on a plane. You either play nice or don't get on. It's pretty simple, but yet the US dilly-dallies with things like banning plastic silverware and pit stick in hopes to prevent something bad from happening. It kinda makes a person wonder....

Israel is also a country the size of NJ... with an airport that doesn't have near the amount of flights that most of the major airports in the US does. If you've ever flown into israel there's an armed guard every 20 feet or so- with some pretty heavy weaponry...

Going thru security there, you are not asked, you are told to remove sunglasses and they will question you on what you did while you were there and where you were going... they pay attention to you and your reactions for the answers.

In May, 03, several people from Texas chartered a plane and had a totally nude flight.
http://www.frenchconx.com/images/naked_air5.jpg

Now back on topic.
In just over two weeks, I'll be flying across country. Everyone bitches and moans about the 'inconveniences' but, if you(everyone that flies) just change a few small things (and of course, those that have an overload of self-importance won't), things will be very smooth.
First off, NO carry on. Do you really need to bring that bag of make-up and spare undies? No. You hold the rest of us up who just want to sit down.
Second, put the nice shoes and sneakers in your bag and wear some slip-ons or flipflops. You know they're going to ask you to remove your shoes-again, you're holding us up.
Third-Walmart. Every town, every city, every 1-horse village has'em. If you think it's an inconvenience to have your shampoo tossed, don't bring it, buy it.
Fourth: Get there early. I have this flight to catch too. You're not more important, just pushier. Thinking you have such and such time and plan on being arrogant when you arrive holds the rest of us up.
Are the precautions a bit over the top? Hell, I don't think they're enough. What's to stop that 'relative' seeing that guy off from blowing up the airport itself? Remember when you used to be able to go to the gate with the departing person and watch them leave? I really think at some point, only people with boarding passes will be allowed through the doors. What's ironic is, the larger airports are also malls. And yes, Mal, the vendors and kiosks removed all toiletry items.

What about people who have to fly with laptops for work/school/ect. I will never check my laptop or any other thing with great value. I've had my luggage lost, i've had things smashed in my luggage. Watch the plane as they are loading luggage and count how many bags fall off the belt onto the ground.

Right now you can still take your laptop with you... If they decide you can't -- then the airlines need to change their policy on what is and isn't covered udner their baggage insurance plan. Right now electronics and especially laptops are not covered...


New airline restrictions may be here to stay
the quote from the head of security is exactly right... it's not the things that need to be stopped -it's the people...

Maybe I'm not seeing the "middle ground" in terms of airline security, but I think if that's what it take here in the states, why not? Telling people they cannot bring any form of a liquid on a plane in the name of security is ridiculous. Get a person that is radical enough, they'll stick things up their ass and blow themselves up to just make a point.

What happens to people that are diabetic and need their insulin while their are on a flight? Go into a diabetic comma because the goverment cannot get it's head out of it's own ass over how to get a handle on airport security?

It has already been proven one too many times IMO of just how many loop holes are in the system. It doesn't end with the airlines, as it has been shown on buses and trains as well. All loop holes are meant to be found, it's just a matter of who is going to take the time to find them and how to manipulate the situation.

Been on a bus lately? There is all this chatter about how tough security is, but they never actually check anybodies luggage. Yeah, they wave their little magic wand around people, but luggage? Nope.

People want safety, but they don't want their balls busted over it either. If people really want to know that the person sitting next to them on a flight is really safe to be near, then some stones are going to have to be broken.

diabetics can take their medication on the plane.. they just need to make sure that theprescription matches that of their identification...

it's common knowledge that Israel has very good securityin their airports -- everytime a threat level gets raised - someone on an internet forum brings that up... and the big difference is number of people that go thru the airport on an ordinary day... israel is tiny compared to the new york airports (there are 3 big ones), chicago (2 there), orother cities...

I stand by my statement that airline security and these measures are purely feel good for the average flying public -to make them feel safer... but i don't see it doing any good..

the quote from the former director of security in the above article has the solution... but it would take years to get to that solution.. Guards would have to be trained to not find something tangible but go for an intangible - like a person's reaction...

And just think of the whines from some circles.

Perhaps the current system is half-assed. I'm sure if I really wanted to work on it, I could figure out a way to smuggle something past security, but even half asses security is better than nothing. There is nothing I hate worse than standing in line, except maybe standing in line when I am trying to get somewhere else, such as at an airport, but there is one irony about this.

If carry on bags are basically eliminated, security will go far faster than it did prior to this latest attempt at mass murder. Nothing to search, no bags to go through, no lap tops to turn on. They sure as hell better get more advanced inflight entertainment and I cringe at the thought of my next multi hour flight, but from a security stand point it will be a breeze.

Anyone ever get that mass-floating email entitled 'profiling'? It goes like this:

1. 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by?
a. Superman?
b. Jay Leno?
c. Harry Potter?
d. a Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40?




2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by?
a. Olga Corbett?
b. Sitting Bull?
c. Arnold Schwarzenegger?
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40 ?



3. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:?
a. Lost Norwegians?
b. Elvis?
c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women?
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40?

4. During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:?
a. John Dillinger?
b. The King of Sweden?
c. The Boy Scouts?
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40?


5. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:?
a. A pizza delivery boy?
b. Pee Wee Herman?
c. Geraldo Rivera?
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40?


6. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old
American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by:?
a. The Smurfs?
b. Davey Jones?
c. The Little Mermaid?
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40?

7. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver
trying to rescue passengers was murdered by:?
a. Captain Kidd?
b. Charles Lindberg?
c. Mother Teresa?
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40?



8. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:?
a. Scooby Doo?
b. The Tooth Fairy and The Sundance Kid?
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40?



9. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:?
a. Richard Simmons?
b. Grandma Moses?
c. Michael Jordan?
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40?



10. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:?
a. Mr. Rogers?
b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild Bill's women problems?
c. The World Wrestling Federation?
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40?



11. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles
to take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers. Thousands of people were killed by:?
a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd?
b. The Supreme Court of Florida?
c. Mr. Bean?
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40?



12. In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:?
a. Enron?
b. The Lutheran Church?
c. The NFL?
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40?

13. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:?
a. Bonnie and Clyde?
b. Captain Kangaroo?
c. Billy Graham?
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40?

Nope, I really don't see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you?


So, to ensure we Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics intent on killing us, airport security screeners will no longer be allowed to profile certain people. They must conduct random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with proper identification, secret agents who are members of the President's security detail, 85-year old Congressmen with metal hips, and Medal of Honor winning and former Governor Joe Foss, but leave Muslim Males between the ages 17 and 40 alone lest they be guilty of profiling.

As middle-america travelers, we feel put out and for the most part, justifiably so. As someone who is not quite ready to experience the thrill of blowing up in midair, I'd rather just go through some inconvenience. Who's to say that some 'Muslim male extremist mostly between the ages of 17 and 40' won't next start tampering with innocents' baggage? And until technology is progressed, we have to do what we have to do.

I was traveling with a 28 year old Jordanian male of Palistinian origin but they searched the cute blonde behind us.
He thought it was pretty funny in a stupid sort of way, mostly because he doesn't want to get blown up either and doesn't mind if they search him as long as they search everyone else like him too. That doesn't mean you don't look for others who might be involved, hell maybe the blonde chick was his GF for all TSA would know, but you shouldn't ignore the obvious to avoid admiting that race/religion has a lot to do with the current situation.

What they do in Israel isn't even profiling... it's treating everyone the same - and asking questions and looking at the answer - they m ade me take off my sunglasses (prescription) because (as I read up on later) f you are going to tell an untruth, your pupils change size.. the also look for people acting nervous.. It's not about nationality...

Heck - the next plane that comes falling out the sky could be brought down by some fundamentalist christian group looking to start a holy war... :D (Oklahoma city wasn't blown up by Muslims... :D

Things I took on a plane last week that could potentially be used as weapons and are still allowed on board to the best of my knowledge:

A pen - see "Casino"
Razor blades
Divot repair tool (if I sharpened the prongs, they could kill)

None of these are difficult for me to see as weapons, and I've always found it ironic that the TSA would not allow cuticle scissors but would allow razor blades.

Some of you know that I own and coach at a fencing salle. We sent a bunch of our youth fencers to New York in the spring for a regional tournament. Most of them came back on the same flight, but one family stayed a little later. On the way back, the TSA refused to let them carry on their epees because they were "weapons". Remember that there aren't sharp or pointy edges on these things as a rule, but the TSA made the family check the blades, where they were lost for 4 days and finally showed up with 3 of the 5 snapped and all unworkable. It's even more ironic when I know for a fact that the current national champion in the shot put carries his shot on every flight, domestic and international (he mentioned it in an interview with "Track and Field News"). For those of you unfamilar with the shot put, it's a 14 lb iron ball that was originally thrown to crush the armor of your enemy. And this guy can throw one 75 feet or so.

As far as the racial profiling thing goes, I really don't have that big of a problem with it so long as they're not ignoring Timothy McVeigh's successor (is that you, dksuddeth? :D ). Let's remember that hijacking in this country was pioneered by the Cubans and the far radical left.

I found this pretty comprehensive list as to what the new airline rules are for carryons. It covers both US and British regulations, and really helped me clarify what I can/can't carry on if these are still in effect the next time I fly.

Can i take a damned book is what i want to know.

Actually, Sirhan Sirhan was a Christian arab.

I love forwarded emails filled with 'facts' This one was fairly accurate but a LOT of them have disputed information or flat out lies.

How do you profile for Muslims, anyway? Ask to see their prayer rug??

An Arab, okay, that's something identifiable (not saying it's fair, at all... you should see the shit that my Lebanese boyfriend has to go through anytime he steps on an international flight.. and me included, by association!). But even this latest plan was not done by Arabs... it was by British people of Pakistani background. I guess you could start profiling for brown people in general... until yeah, Timothy McVeigh's successor gets on board. :rolleyes:

Working in Philly this summer, I can tell you that I saw a TON of Muslims who were not Arabs. No one would know them from John Doe when getting on a plane. I also know quite a few Arabs who are not Muslim. So yeah, not that it needs to be said around here (or does it??), but there is just no way to "profile" for anyone fairly, unless you "profile" everyone equally. For that reason, I don't care how long I have to stand in line... as long as it's fair treatment.

And I quote this for truth:

Are we gonna get fed on airplanes again? We just got used to packing a soft-sided cooler with drinks, sandwiches, snacks, etc. We learned to wear our sneakers instead of shoes with steel shanks. We learned to leave our fingernail scissors in the checked baggage as well as our cigarette lighters.

But if we're not allowed to bring food, we're gonna get cranky!

Oh, you'll get fed alright, but it will cost you. I'm making the call now - the airlines will get rid of complimentary beverages within the next 90 days. You will have to buy everything at inflated prices. The same goes for food. You heard it here first!

Half the flights i take already do that.