lindalove

A discussion on my morning radio show got me thinking about this. Adult women are allowed to make sexually suggestive comments about young (teenage) boys, but when grown men admit to finding a teenage girl sexually attractive, they're labeled as perverts.

I have to admit that this is something I'd never really given much thought to before. I work with a bunch of women ranging in age from 25 to 40, and we do it all the time, and no one raises an eyebrow, but - heaven forbid - if one of my male co-workers ever made a comment like, "If I was ten years younger I'd show her a thing or two," and directed it toward, say, our 19-year-old college intern, I guarantee you from that moment on he'd be considered the office creep.

On the flip side, my (guy) friend has told me many times that during his teenage years, the ultimate fantasy for him and his friends was to hook up with an older woman, but I can tell you from the female perspective that young women/teenage girls don't usually fantasize about older men (in general) unless they're celebrities or someone the girl knows personally.

What's up with this double standard? Also, discuss any other double standards that irritate you.

analog

Meh, it's on par with the "player vs slut" debate. A guy who sleeps around is a player, but a woman who does the same is a slut. Gender double-standards are huge and widespread. Yeah, they suck, but there's not much that can be done about it. It's totally a cultural/societal thing.

Reese

After thinking about it for a while, I can see how the double standards got started. Here's what happened. *fade to flashback* The Year was 1963. The Women's Rights Movement is rapidly gaining popularity as Title VII of the Civil Rights act is established. Women are entering the workplace in droves. They're encouraged to do things previously reserved only for males. Their minds were opened and they began absorbing the mannerisms of the men in the workplace. This is where the problem began.

Shortly after the women moved into the workplace came a nasty plague called Radical Feminism.*crowd ewwws* They called our society an oppressive patriarchy and they set out to destroy it! No longer were men allowed to speak about what was really going on in their twisted minds. These radicals didn't want equality - They wanted to dominate. Slowly, They began taming the male. The damage had already been done though.*crowd gasps* The men had planted a seed that would prevent that domination.

This Seed I speak of is, of course, sexually suggestive comments. It was one of the original reasons for the uprise of women. It was one of the least desirable traits of the workplace Male. Now, it's a common trait among workplace females. In the future a few men will try to use this seed against women to get their manhood back. Unfortunately, This initial rebellion will fail because, well, Men like those suggestive comments. However, slowly but surely, balance will come. It'll take a bit of pulling from the left and from the right, but sooner or later we'll get it centered.

Analog, I think the Player vs Slut model hints that women are the stronger of the sexes.. Women Dislike sluts because they exploit the power of being a women. Men Dislike sluts for one of two reasons. The first being that guys seem to think sluts screw around with every guy EXCEPT them. The Second being that they don't know the girl is a slut until she dumps him and he finds out she's slept with 4 guys before they actually broke up. Women don't like players because they don't know he's a player until he doesn't call the next day. Guys think of a player as Robin hood. He sticks it to the 'sex rich' women, Literally.

None of this should be taken seriously. Thanks


Edit: Maybe it's different in other places but it seems to me there are alot more older male/younger female couples than there are Older female/younger male couples. Maybe this could have some kind of relation to what is acceptable in the workplace. Women are allowed to joke and tease because it's automatically assumed that it IS an innocent comment because there are fewer older women with younger guys. Whereas a guy who says it is taken seriously because he most likely WOULD try to "hit that shit!" As they say...

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stevie667

Good points there cybermike.

There is so many double standards in our society at the moment, thats why the internet is such a wonderful place.

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Ustwo

The reason for the double standard is simple, men make the standards.

Most men are far less worried about an older woman trying to fuck their son than a older man trying to fuck their daughter.

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flstf

I think that most parents are less worried about any sexual encounters with the opposite sex their sons might have compared to their daughters no matter what age their partners are. The perception is that sex at an early age does not psychologically affect the boys nearly as much as the girls, and they may be right.

Impetuous1

I think cybermike and flstf are right. As a teenage girl, I never really thought of older men as sexy. Except for the occasional older man I already knew personally. I think that women are indeed allowed to make comments about younger men because most women would never seriously try to get with a younger guy because for women it's not just about sex but also financial stability, which most young men cannot provide. With older men making sexually suggestive comments about girls, they say it because they mean it. Most younger women don't have a lot of economic power. On top of that, we're weaker than men physically and, at least for me, it takes a long time before you realize who you are as a person. Women are conditioned to not be unpleasant, say no, etc. It takes us a while to learn to assert ourselves. Something that males are encouraged to do right away. Females that learn that at a young age are labeled bitches. Just my opinion.

JStrider

my buddies and I will check out younger girls and comment on em...

during the summer here there is always some kind of highschool camp... volleyball soccer etc... and they usually eat in the same dining hall as us...

"Helloo sweet Statutory"


occasionally we'll talk to them but thats all.


now the new college freshmen girls... thats another story

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ngdawg

I don't agree with the young girls not fanticizing about older men, towit; Sean Connery, Clint Eastwood, Harrison Ford....but the old guy on the beach, never.
It's really hard if not impossible to kill the double standard-I've lived with it all my life through a lot of different eventful decades. Try unloading trucks for a living as a 20-something female. More than once the truckers would just stop what they were doing and watch me toss boxes or carry off furniture. And now, female truckers are still considered an abnormality, presumed gay, etc.
The corporate standard that a male boss is assertive but a female boss is a bitch has withstood the test of time better than the coastlines and doesn't look to dissipate any time soon. And the second standard that if she's attractive, she's probably not very smart is ingrained.
Women will have to continue to prove themselves in ways men can't fathom. It's not enough to have the degree or the muscles with us. I've actually inteviewed with a photography studio owner that, although thought my work was excellent, could not get past the point that I had kids. Would he be that stuck on one fact had I been a man? I'm guessing no, since his questions kept reverting back to that one fact regarding time available, etc.
One other point that I would like to make and that is that double-standard thinking is not just from person to person or in corporate eyes. When renewing my driver's license, I was asked to produce my marriage license. I never said I was married, I don't wear a ring-it was assumed. This would not be the case had I been a man. That one incident really drove home the double standard that is part and parcel of our culture.

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Rodney

Women (and men) perceive an older woman taking a young man to bed as "less dangerous" than an older man who wants to bed a young woman.

For one thing, the older woman is perceived to be in control of the situation, including birth control. An older woman of property would not been seen as wanting to trap a teeny boy into a relationship. I mean, why? He doesn't have spending power, couldn't pay child support, etc. So nobody gets hurt. And frankly, older women have always liked younger men and always had an interest in having young lovers, if they could get away with it. Now they can, and they can talk about it.

An older man starting a relationship with a younger woman wants easy sex, too -- but he's not handling the birth control end, and may not care. If the girl gets pregnant, he could split. Also, there's the psycho card: aggressive men with personality problems often seek young, submissive women.

All that said, there is a double standard in conversation. It's unfair for women to be able to make sexual comments in the workplace while men can't, because the women would feel threatened. Oh, boo hoo. If women get to talk sexually, men do, too. In your case, women are taking advantage of their freedom to talk sexually -- while holding that it's improper for men to do so.

Here's a real flash of genius: maybe everybody should just SFTU about other people's sexual desirability in the workplace, at least in general conversation. It's called professionalism.

snowy

I don't know--I fantasized about plenty of older men (teachers, celebrities, guys in the grocery store) when I was younger, and I still do. Just last week I was in line at Safeway behind this guy who looked a bit like Jeremy Irons. He was Scottish! So hot--even though he was easily 40.

And yes, ngdawg is right (per usual), men don't understand all of the double-standards women face because THEY DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH THEM. There are a lot of sexist trials and tribulations out there for females, some very very small (the cost of haircuts, dry cleaning) to very very large (the absence of women in power positions in our culture). Even where I work, a ruthless female such as myself is viewed a little oddly, even though most of our workstaff is female. I'm supposed to be kind, nurturing, and understanding, not interested in getting ahead. And yes, women do this to other women--we evidently have set modes of behavior we are supposed to adhere to.

When it comes to relations between the sexes in this country, and the place of the female, there is a lot more going on than people see or think about.

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flstf

I read somewhere that women reach their sexual peak in their mid 30's and men in their late teens. If true, I wonder why we evolved this way? Especially since many if not most marriages have an older man and younger woman, it would seem to make sexual sense if it was the other way around.

flat5

Perhaps marriage is not about sex.

stevie667

Because a man is more likely to be killed young in conflict/hunting, where as a woman is likely not to be involved in those types of things, and by the time she is 30's, she sure better have a kid, or get busy making one.

Thats my view anyway.

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krwlz

From an evolutionary standpoint that makes sense.

Also consider that males (as a gender in the wild here, not in human society) are preprogrammed to impregnate as many females as physically possible.

It's survival of a species. Females on the other hand, can only get pregnant once per "season" or so. In other words, for a species to survive, a male ought to be fucking everything that moves for as long as possible. With an early mortality rate, that is doubly important.

As far as double standards go, let's for a moment take a step back and consider something...

Men and Women are DIFFERANT! In a discrimination sense, it's no where near fair for them to be treated differantly, but in the end... They are differant, and that's where a lot of it comes from.

The woman unloading trucks (and no offense at all intended) is an oddity. Because women are incapable? No, but think of how many women would balk at the idea of taking that job. The genders are differant, have differant expectations, and psychological standards they set for themselves, society induced or not, and therefor the stereotypes begin.

Keep in mind, that stereotypes, while not fair, from a psych standpoint are necesary. We need them to function in day to day life. If we didn't have them, we would have information overload every day.

Our heads need some basic model to start from when interacting with any given person. That's not to say we should assume all are the same, but none the less, we do need something to start from.

All of this contributes to double standards on both sides of the fence, and I don't know that that's such an evil/bad thing.

Seaver

There are a lot of sexist trials and tribulations out ther for men too. Some are not very small (the cost of the first 4 dates minimum, dry cleaning).

Women also don't face the old lion in the workforce. This is something they never face, and therefore dont understand. Unfortunately it's never discussed because men having more troubles isn't PC. The old lion is the man who is past his prime, who sees any other up and comer as a threat. He has gone as far as he can and is upset that he didn't make it as far as he did. Therefore he sabatoges any man who he sees as capable.

This is tied in with another advantage women have that is never discussed. If a woman is successfull they are revered. If she fails in the workforce the prospect of becoming a housewife is almost equally respected. If a man fails in the workforce he is a deadbeat.

Val_1

Women are allowed to make sexually suggestive statements about young boys?

I think some of the cases lately concerning older women and teenage boys shows us that both men and women can cross the line.

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ratbastid

I'm not sure it's psycological effects they're worried about. The fact of preganancy means that girls face a disproprtionately large risk associated with sexual activity. So men tend to be more protective of their daughters than their sons, and the "player/slut" double standard is born.

genuinegirly

Er... I find it quite offensive and disgusting wihen adult women make sexually suggestive comments about young teenage boys. If it were acceptable, sure it would be a double-standard. But it's not.

Double standards that irritate me:

In his last semester at my previous school, a retiring professor blatantly gave C & D grades to all women in his class that weren't actively flirting, and As and Bs to every male that regularly attended class.

Women are often expected to wear cute, trendy clothes. If a man dresses in cute, trendy clothes or gets a pedicure, they're labeled as a homo.

"cutting deals" for those in high places, politically or socially, allowing them to avoid responsibility.

The boss of the small company who treats their employees "like family" but pays them far below the general cost of living, reduces their hours as they qualify for health insurance, and runs off to Vegas twice a month where she proceeds to blow several hundred thousand dollars that could otherwise have been used to provide for the basic needs of their employees.

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Ample

When me and my ex first met in the Navy we worked together. In the jet engine repair shop. There would be a job to do, and she would pull the thats too hard (stenious) and get out of not doing it, and instead, when she did work get to do the cake jobs.

I understand that some women, not all, and infact some men cant do some pyhcially demanding tasked that some positions require, but like my ex I saw a lot of females pull that is too hard, or too dirty and used their charm to get out of it.


That reminded me a scene from, "The Office". Michael is mediating a conflict between Angela and Kevin. Angela is complaining that Kevin is making sexual comments to her, so to resolve this Michael tells Angela to make sexual comments back at Kevin, before Michael can finish, Kevin says, “Agree”.

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