Toaster126

I love you, BigBen.

And, to stay topical, I don't really care about the seals. Steps are being taken to insure that they die in a manner that doesn't involve torture, and the population isn't at risk for endangerment\extinction, so I do not care.

__________________
"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

feelgood

Oops, are you gonna charge me with plargism now? It still doesn't change the facts. I thought the language of the post made it pretty obvious it was from a government website.

By the way, I'm curious as to where your facts is coming from? PETA related sites? Something similar? Those sites usually change facts into myths.

__________________
Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

Willravel

Yes, but how does it taste? How do you prepare it?

Lucifer

Personally, I don't eat seafood. So perhaps it's hypocritical for me to support the seal hunt. But it's not just about the cute seals, it's about the human equation as well. It's about the people on the botton rung of the ladder who are trying to support their families.

__________________
I am a brother to dragons, and a companion to owls.
- Job 30:29

1123, 6536, 5321

cellophanedeity

*feels educated* All I've ever learned about the seal hunt has been from the side opposing the practice. I'm still against it, but then again, I'm against the killing of most animals, whether they're cute or not.

I am glad that it's regulated though. Too bad we can't be as sensible about our pot. -_-

__________________
who am I to refuse the universe?
-Leonard Cohen, Beautiful Losers

feelgood

You just made a good point, seal hunting is regulated while farm animal slaughters isn't. So, why is seal hunting so bad compared to slaughtering cows just so that you can have a Big Mac at your McDonald's

__________________
Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

BigBen

HOLD ON NOW.

Slaughterhouses are heavily regulated. Fuck, you can't swing a stick without hitting an inspector or a vet.... Don't make blanket assumptions here. As far as I know, anything and everything that enters the human food market is heavily regulated.

Are you talking about farmer Bob killing one of his own for a side of beef, outside an abbatoir? In that case, there is nothing stopping farmer Bob from being cruel to that animal. Other than him caring about his livestock, which I think that every farmer does. Anyone I have ever met, anyway.

You live in Newfoundland and don't eat seafood? Isn't that really weird?

__________________
3.141592654
Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

Ace_O_Spades

Off topic for a second:

You can ALWAYS count on BigBen to inject some rationality into a thread... kudos

Ok back on:

Personally, I agree with some of the people in here who have said if you're going to protest the overblown overhyped seal hunt, why not take a stroll into your local slaughterhouse and step down off your high horse.

__________________
Feh.

krwlz

I think that he is pointing out that in slaughter houses (since they are domestic) there are no regulations on numbers and such. Most regulations involve avoiding overly high cruelty (because cmon, who can say using a tool representing a nail gun, punching a steel rod into a cow brain isnt at least kinda cruel?) and that everything is clean (again reletivly speaking) and FDA approved.

Willravel

So I take it this isn't a place to discuss different ways of preparing seal?

BigBen

No, I don't think that is what he was saying at all. I guess the reply was a little vague at that point. I think he was talking about cruelty.

I have been to slaughterhouses, and have witnessed the "Kill Floor" first-hand. In all three instances, the animal (2 beef plants, one pork plant) was killed with electricity. You are right, the piston was there as a back-up, but the station operator said that he used it less than once a month.

Not speaking relatively, but in absolute terms, EVERYTHING WAS FUCKING SPOTLESSLY CLEAN. Aside from the kill floor, as soon as the animal was hanging, everything was sterile. I was really surprised. Surgical steel and white food grade plastic. Everyone was wrapped up in hair nets and gowns and shit. Someone was always washing something, and the place smelled oddly like a hospital. Disinfectant in the air.

I would have eaten off the floor. I was really surprised.

Vets are walking around making sure the animals don't suffer, and in certain circumstances they make sure the animal is comfortable. The holding pens are clean and warm, lots of water (no food) and there are little gates and puffs of air to keep the livestock moving. No prods, no sticks or whips. Weird, huh?

__________________
3.141592654
Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

skier

I heard every night there's a crew that washes everything down with a hot chlorine solution using high pressure washers. everything is cleaned spotless.

(I've also heard this is a very dangerous and unhealthy job and the wages aren't high enough for the risk etc. but this is beside the "seal hunting" point)

__________________
"Asking a bomb squad if an old bomb is still "real" is not the best thing to do if you want to save it." - denim

feelgood

That's exactly what I'm saying, everybody's been bitching about clubbing one cutisey wotsiey little baby seal while nobody does the same for calves for their veals.

__________________
Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

abaya

I went to eastern Greenland for two weeks in February on an anthropology trip. I was fucking freezing. I bought a hat made of sealskin and dog fur, no second thoughts about it. It was warmer than anything natural or synthetic that I could have brought with me, and kept me from losing my ears during some of the 3-day long blizzards we had.

I met the people who killed the seals, I watched them bring in the hunt and remove the skins and meat the way they have done for thousands of years, and I saw them dress their own children in sealskins. I paid $100 for that hat to keep me warm and to support the local economy, which is otherwise completely dependent on Danish imports and subsidies.

I still very much enjoy and appreciate wearing that hat on every frigid Pennsylvania winter day.

EDIT: While in Greenland, we ate minke whale, dolphin, and caribou. No seal, sorry for those who are curious how to prepare it. I would have eaten it too, though, because what the hell else is there to eat in eastern Greenland? Danish pastries? Just TRY to have sympathy on the cute animals and become vegetarian there. Just try.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

krwlz

And in my opinion, no one should. I would argue that for the most part, the calfs arnt in discomfort. And as veal tastes good (and seal fur keeps warm) I don't see as a whole a real problem. Sure, we would all love to see the ideal calf frollicking acorss green meadows... But cmon. Reality has to set in at some point. In the end, mother nature is more of a bitch than we are.

Where else do you see the young (infantile even, not nearly old enough to survive on their own, as proven by the rest of this sentence) eaten by predetors? Just because we use their pelts doesnt mean its not fair. Man got to the top of the food chain by using their smarts... AKA Fur is warm!! Sure, now its style, and we have other choices, but in the end does that really change anything?

Not in my mind anyway. I would love to make (thats right, i do my own leather work) a coyote skin coat... Is that better or worse than a seal skin coat? I would love to take the skin from a deer that I shot (primarily for hunting challenge reasons, and secondly for meat) and make something out of it. Does that make me evil?

If so, why? And since its more acceptable than apparently more acceptable than seal fun clothing, why? Because a seal is cuter? Please.....

Bossnass

A friend of mine, a geologist diamond explorer, gave me some jerky-like meat last year. It was reported to be seal. I don't suspect that it was regulated. It was pretty greasy, a bit bland, and wrapped in wax paper for packaging. Procurred as he was running out of food while waiting for the plane.

I tried it, but it was nothing to write home about. I preferred the dried beluga whale, but that was very salty. Actually the little soapstone raven on the shelf takes my preference.

Therefore, I would say that semi-dried jerkyish preperation is not an ideal way to eat seal.

Tamerlain

I would disagree with you here. I wish I could remember the source, but I can't at the moment. Anyway, I read an article explaining how veal calves were contained in pens so that they couldn't move. Moving makes the meat tough. They weren't allowed to drink their mother's milk because it made the meat less desirable (something about protein and fats... really wish I had the article). If they can manage to turn around, they often lick up their own urine because they are iron deficient.

I don't eat veal because of the above reasons and that it seems to me to be a waste. Why eat a baby cow when you get so much more meat from a full grown cow? I've had some very tender rib-eye steaks, so I don't buy the argument that veal is good because it's tender. I also question the nutritional value of veal compared to regular beef. If the veal cows are malnourished to keep their meat tender, it would make sense that their meat wouldn't have much nutritional value.

I guess my point here is that there is a purpose to the seal hunt. The fur, as shown above, is an excellent insulator. The meat is eaten. Seal oil is used. It just doesn't seem as much of a waste to me a killing calves for veal.

-Tamerlain

__________________
I never let school interfere with my education.

genuinegirly

Feelgood - thank you for the myth/reality posting a while back. It is enjoyably objective and informative. So good to find facts among the comments. I don't know much about the seal hunt, but now I know more. Still not enough to form a proper opinion.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

james t kirk

Not necessarily.

While it may be a gov't website, the fact of the matter is that the Canadian Government supports the seal hunt.

Quite simply, it's a case of pandering to voters.

Therefore, the site is biased, government or not.

Ustwo

Best way to stop someone bitching about veal, is when they start to complain, tell them you like your veal tortured. It sort of confuses them

I'm not sure what the real argument is here. People eat seals, people wear their skin, same as just about any other animal out there. I don't want to club seals myself, but I'm willing to let my cultural bias slide here. I think eating horses is bad and eating dogs awful, but I'm not going to go bitching to Europe or Asia anytime soon over it.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

feelgood

So is the anti-seal hunting sites. That's what I was asking you before, how did you validate your opinion that you posted before?

__________________
Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

krwlz

I personally wouldnt eat a dog. The "icky factor" I think comes from the fact that not only are these animals domesticated, but they have personality. However, while I wouldnt search it out, if someone offered me horse (or seal) I would give it a shot.

skier

If you spent as much time with horses as dogs you would know that they easily have just as much "personality" as dogs have.

I think it's interesting how subjective our "ick factor" is. I bet if you reversed the situations of chickens and dogs, we would find eating chickens abhorrent while we cooked up dogchops for supper every night.

__________________
"Asking a bomb squad if an old bomb is still "real" is not the best thing to do if you want to save it." - denim

Lucifer

It's really cultural too. Some Scandanavian countries have no problem with eating horsemeat, (personally I can't imagine it's too different from cow) and a lot of countries in the South Pacific and Asia have no problem eating dog. I've eaten dog and have had no problem with it.

__________________
I am a brother to dragons, and a companion to owls.
- Job 30:29

1123, 6536, 5321

Miss Ina

Why do people start threads with titles suggesting they welcome discussion, when they really just want to voice their own opinion and argue with anyone who disagrees with them?

Watching the Juno Awards' audience unanimously boo Pamela Anderson for her anti-sealing comments and cheer at Jann Arden's comment that her "brassiere was made entirely of seal eyelid", it's easy for people outside Atlantic Canada to think that we all support the seal hunt. We don't. What we hate is people from outside Atlantic Canada coming in and telling us what we can and cannot do in order to survive in the poorest part of Canada. Nobody knows what it's like to live here until they've lived here.

(For anyone from rural Atlantic Canada who looks at my location and says "Halifax? Like you know what it's like," this is just where I'm going to school.)

Newfoundland may be experiencing an economic boom, but keep in mind that it would take years of a booming economy for Newfoundland to even approach Alberta's status. The people here do what they need to do to support themselves, and I support their right to do it.

billege

Topic Tanget Comment:

1) They're not facts until I can check them and agree they're valid.
Until then, it's just your opinion.

2)I take plagarism seriously. Many other people do also.
It's stealing.

3)When you present facts that you use to support a position you have, then those should be facts checkable by others.

4)Facts you've gathered from a source should be quoted.
The TFP reply tools make it easy for you show information is quoted, and where it's quoted from.
It's also a courtesy to other members to link back to the original article.

5)Plagarism is seriously offensive.
I urge you to take it seriously yourself.

On Topic Comment:

Killing animals for use is either okay or not okay.

It doesn't matter if one of fins is used, thier entire animal bodies, thier skins, or thier hooves. They're dead each way.

It also doesn't matter if they're cute or ugly, young or old.

If it's sustainable, it's okay. If the kill is not sustainable, it's not okay.

Other posters have put very logical reasons explaining why the seal hunt attracts so much attention. I see no reason to restate all that, but I do agree with them.

__________________
I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence:
"My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

raeanna74

"...Minister Reid. "The seal herd is in excess of five million, and as the herd continues to enjoy a population explosion,..."2003 Newfoundland Government statement

This amount - 5 million seems to me like the seal herd is not in danger of extinction. I personally feel that humans have as much right to cull other animal populations as any other creature. Our responsibility is to do it carefully enough as to not harm the the populations of animals such that it causes underpopulation of that animal or overpopulation of another creature.

If this hunt is being regulated, restricted to a certain time period, and certain maximum number harvested it is no different than deer hunting, or other game hunting in the U.S.

I know some deer hunters who are not interested in the meat very much. Some keep the fur, look for big racks and mount the heads. What is the difference between doing that and wearing the fur? Especially when you consider that the fur makes a much warmer coat and is even sturdier than wearing artifically produced materials which do are not biodegradable, rip and come apart more quickly and are thrown away almost yearly by some people. If you're truely concerned about the environment then you have to consider the entire cycle of each item you use.

__________________
"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

splck

I have no problem with the seal hunt. It's no different to any other type of killing.
The best thing about the seal hunt is listening to all the non-rural people trying to tell others what is right and wrong and how they should run their lives.

__________________
nice line eh?

Lucifer

__________________
I am a brother to dragons, and a companion to owls.
- Job 30:29

1123, 6536, 5321