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Old 03-08-2006, 01:43 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Dad, son drown in pit of manure (CA)

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Dad, son drown in pit of manure (CA)

GRANGEVILLE, Calif. - A dairy worker and his 8-year-old son died in a manure pit on the farm where they lived, authorities said Tuesday.
Luis Gutierrez, 27, and Luis Armando Gutierrez went to feed calves Saturday night and apparently stumbled upon the manure pit in the dark, investigators said.

Footsteps near the edge of the 10-foot deep pit seem to suggest one of them fell in, said Kings County Sheriff Allan McClain.

"We could see the dad seemed to be doing what he could to reach his son," McClain said. "But this stuff ... If you step in, it sucks you in."

When Gutierrez and his son didn't return, family members called the dairy's owners and the sheriff's department for help.

Investigators found Luis Gutierrez's stalled pickup with its hood up. They said the Gutierrezes probably got out of the truck and tried to take a shortcut home.

The dairy's owners dredged the cement-lined holding pond that collects rainwater and manure running from the farm, and the bodies were pulled from it early Sunday, McClain said.

The 8-year-old was the oldest of four children Luis Gutierrez had with his 22-year-old wife, Maria.

The county coroner is still working on the autopsy, but investigators don't suspect foul play. McClain said the pair may have drowned in the thick, foul-smelling sludge. It's also possible they were overwhelmed with noxious gases emanating from the mixture.

The state's workplace safety office is investigating the incident, Cal-OSHA spokesman Dean Fryer said.
Wow, what a crappy way to go!
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Old 03-08-2006, 02:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Old 03-08-2006, 02:36 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Damn. I hate reading about shit like this.(sorry) Seems like there should have been a cover of some kind over that shithole.
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Old 03-08-2006, 02:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Yeah... that is a shitty way to go for sure... no pun intended.

But, OMG... how bout the age on the mother. 22 years old, and her oldest son was 8 I guess she started early.

But you gotta hate it for her. She probably doesn't work and has three kids to take care of. Brutal.
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Old 03-08-2006, 02:47 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Mod Note: Knock off the puns, folks... thanks

discuss the topic at hand - without the punny commentary please



I'm unfamiliar with manure pits - but wouldn't a 10 foot hole in the ground have to have some sort of fencing? the town I grew up in required fences above a certain height around a swimming pool.
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Old 03-08-2006, 02:49 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biljan
Damn. I hate reading about shit like this.(sorry) Seems like there should have been a cover of some kind over that shithole.
It's a fairly typical farm manure pit. The costs of making an underground tank or somehow covering this sort of thing are huge. Pits can be as much as 100' across, 15 or 20 ft. deep. Dangerous areas, and it's a bad way to go
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Old 03-08-2006, 02:55 PM   #7 (permalink)
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But, OMG... how bout the age on the mother. 22 years old, and her oldest son was 8 I guess she started early.
So that makes the mother 14 and the father 19 at first child. Shotgun wedding, anyone?

Drowning is one of the worst ways to die... and drowning in THAT... good God, that's terrible.
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Old 03-08-2006, 03:32 PM   #8 (permalink)
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i can think of worse ways to have my life ended, but this is in the top 5. I feel for their familes.

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Old 03-08-2006, 06:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
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That has got to be one of the worst deaths ever.


*shudder*
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Old 03-09-2006, 05:34 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Definitely feel for the family in this case. Maybe they'll fence the pit off after this. A simple 3 foot fence and a gate large enough to allow a vehicle large enough to back up to the pit wouldn't be overly expensive methinks.
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Old 03-09-2006, 05:53 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I've never seen a fence around one of these. But I've never seen one that was cement lined either. It sounds like it was positioned to catch runoff so anything that would block the runoff would defeat the purpose of the pit somewhat. You can really smell when you're by the manure pit, even more than in the barn. But why wouldn't they have a flashlight or something with them?? Or at the least - couldn't they remember where the thing was?? I've been on a farm. The Manure pit wasn't that far from the back of the barn. Just don't go near it if you can't see. Course this was an 8 yr old who might not have thought about things like that. That's a sad way to go.
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Old 03-09-2006, 06:29 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by biljan
Damn. I hate reading about shit like this.(sorry) Seems like there should have been a cover of some kind over that shithole.
A cover OVER or AROUND the pit?

It's actually unsafe to put a cover over the pit which will result in build up of methane gas that is easily ignited.

There's lots of farms around my area and I've never actually seen a manure pit being enclosed by fences. I've always assumed that it wasn't that deep enough to drown somebody.
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Old 03-09-2006, 07:20 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I hope it was the gas that got 'em, before they actually "drowned" in the sludge.
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Old 03-09-2006, 07:26 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I'm a city kid... and have no knowlege of all things manure... but I know of dumpters and they smell pretty rank when you are close to them... Wouldn't a manure pit smell really really really bad? Why would you keep heading in the direction of the manure pit?
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Old 03-09-2006, 07:35 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Where I grew up (dairy country) none of the manure pits had fences around them, but they did have berms of earth around them to give them a defined edge and protect them from flooding (very common where I grew up).

But yeah, that would be like dying in smelly quicksand...yuck.
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Old 03-09-2006, 11:57 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Reason #48 why I'm a flashaholic (collector of incredibly high powered flashlights (most of which being overdriven LED's - w00t)): So I don't fall into an unseen pit of manure whilst wandering about in the blackness of night.

That would be one of the most terrible ways to go... I hope the wifey is able to support the family, somehow. Ouch.
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Old 03-09-2006, 01:47 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by maleficent
I'm a city kid... and have no knowlege of all things manure... but I know of dumpters and they smell pretty rank when you are close to them... Wouldn't a manure pit smell really really really bad? Why would you keep heading in the direction of the manure pit?
They don't smell much if the wind is blowing away from the people approaching the pit, I'm pretty sure thats what happened
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Old 03-09-2006, 02:05 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feelgood
A cover OVER or AROUND the pit?

It's actually unsafe to put a cover over the pit which will result in build up of methane gas that is easily ignited.
I was pretty sure a steel grate of some kind could vent gas yet allow shit to fall in.

A fence would have been nice. These were two sensless deaths, I hope that poor mother sues the shit out of that farm. The farm operaters don't seem to bright, one would think they would have had a fence to prevent the livestock from falling in. A stinky shit covered dead cow doesn't bring much at auction .
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Old 03-10-2006, 06:15 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I believe farming has the highest or one of the highest death rates among occupations. I grew up on a dairy farm in SW Ontario and this happened all the time believe it or not. Usually it was the fumes that got ya but sometimes people slipped in.

I think they now have laws that require covers here...I know every farmer has one in my area now. Anyhow, jeez, ya, what a way to go.
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Old 03-10-2006, 06:39 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights
I hope it was the gas that got 'em, before they actually "drowned" in the sludge.
Drowning in _water_ is a bad thought. This has to be near the top of ways not to go. I don't know what I'd do. Stuck in a big sh*thole, and I know it. Dive in and inhale or struggle in a full four-limbed panic? I don't see a merciful exit unless maybe I have a lighter to ignite the methane and go out with a bang.
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Old 03-11-2006, 06:19 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights
I hope it was the gas that got 'em, before they actually "drowned" in the sludge.
The article I saw said their car was found with the hood up. It's thought that they had car trouble and were walking back.

Also, this apparently isn't all that uncommon. The article said there were about five deaths from this cause (usually asphyxiation) this year.

Admittedly, the article also said the sludge was thick and could "suck you down," but that's the same BS (oops--sorry Mal) they say about quicksand.
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Old 03-12-2006, 08:10 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I really, really don't see how someone could die from a big hole filled with manure. I'm aware of the thickness and texture of feces, and if it was liquid, you could simply float in it or grab on to the edge, and if it was thicker, it wouldn't even let you sink that fast in it. The only possible theory is that the kid somehow fell in first and panicked. That resulted in him sinking, and then the father jumped in full-force to dig him out, but ended up getting in too deep also. Even this theory is a little far-fetched.

It is a terrible story, but something just doesn't seem right -- they had to have died due to the gases or something. Quicksand is proven to be bullshit (no pun intended) so I assume that a manure pit would have the same qualities. Either way, that's such a waste of human lives; this is truly one of those stories that make you want to go back in time and simply tell them to stay away from the manure.
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Old 03-12-2006, 08:42 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jackebear
I believe farming has the highest or one of the highest death rates among occupations.
That's what I've been led to believe. And from what I understand, there is nothing like OSHA to mandate what would be safe environments and whatnot. (Not that OSHA would be worth a rats ass anyway).

And you city folk wouldn't believe the ages of some of the kids you see operating farm equipment. Children are often the victims of accidents such as this in agriculture.
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