nezmot

Do you remember how everyone was up in arms about the 'pussification' (shudder - what a <i>horrible</i> phrase) of the country? Well here it is in action again. Now teachers across the country will have to think twice before they open their mouths in case some spotty teenager is recording them and is going to release their lessons on the national media. Where is the moral uproar? Where is the anti-PC brigade now? Not only are people no longer to talk about race, gender or disability - now they're not allowed to discuss politics either (even from within the context of a geography class!). Where exactly will this end? What exactly will we be able to talk about in the future? Which topics of conversation will be consigned to hushed and embarrassed exchanges between consenting adults?

It's completely disgusting.

The people responsible should be ashamed of themselves. I am ashamed of them.

pan6467

I am still very outraged by his obvious hatred for tobacco and feel he must be on Anheiser Busch's payroll to not name alcohol as the #1 killing drug in America.

He should have all teaching credentials ripped from him, and forced to live under the bridge drinking day old coffee. Then maybe he can see the error in his ways.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

robbdn

listening to it now... I'm not liking his tone of voice... it could be very intimidating to a student... he sounds angry, cynical, and jaded, and I wouldn't like to be taught by a teacher like that. He presents it as though he knows all the answers, and it does sound very one-sided...

He is way too passionate to present a sound, reasoned argument... passion better suits a politician than a teacher, and his lecture sounds more like a speech than a lecture...

Listening to the part about Israel now... not impressed with the way he's handling this... he's allowing himself to be put on the defensive, he's overstating his points, he's relying too much on speculation. The part about 9/11, he's allowing himself to sound like an apologist when he's probably not. He's jumping all over the map, from topic to topic, and never ties it back together that he's trying to make a point about how peace cannot come from war, and it's really no wonder that he was misunderstood.

Now that he's talking about globalization, he's calmed down, which really changes his ability to teach rather than preach... end of tape... too bad...

That said, I agree with the teacher quite often. The way the student handled it (including altering the tape?), the way the school board handled it, were all wildly inappropriate. There were a ton of mistakes made by everybody. If I were the principle, I would've sat down with the teacher, this recording, and tried to teach the teacher, not punish... this event had the promise of a grand learning experience for everybody involved, and it was squandered on politics.

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I'm swimming in the digital residue of a media-drenched world. It's too cold.

Marvelous Marv

That's one point, and I have to admit that there are mitigating circumstances, e.g. what you said above, his asking for responses, etc.

However, I get the impression that this kind of stuff had gone on before, and it motivated the kid to bring a tape recorder. That would also explain what someone else said about their impression that the teacher was "baited" into the discussion.

Also, it strikes me as quite unfair for the teacher to have researched the topic thoroughly, and then ask a teenager, with no preparation, to respond.

Lastly, I don't know why, because there isn't a physical resemblance, but DAMN that teacher reminded me of Howard Dean. Can't say why.

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"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
Margaret Thatcher

Marvelous Marv

I find this statement to be quite premature. History is likely to consider the Iraq war more favorably than Korea, or Vietnam. Should democracy sprout in the Middle East, or terrorism be greatly curtailed, Bush will be considered a genius, no matter how painful that thought is to some.

Additionally, I am hard pressed to identify a single beneficial or effective accomplishment of Bill Clinton in regard to fighting terrorism.

I'm sure that some of the French thought it was a bad idea to help with the American Revolution, but I'm thankful they weren't in charge.

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"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
Margaret Thatcher

hulk

To throw a bone; You'd be hard pressed to find Clinton using terrorism as an excuse to invade a country. Any guy who can get away with asking the definition of 'is' is fine in my book

If this teacher was talking to world leaders, or conducting funded research, or doing anything of a greater impact than telling a bunch of kids who are old enough to form their own opinions his own, then perhaps the issue of political/idealogical imbalance would arise. His suspension was a knee-jerk reaction and nothing else.

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"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex."
-- From an IGN game review.

tecoyah

The statement cannot be premature Marv, as it is intended to address current events, by using current events. If we were talking about a " Future History" lecture, perhaps your opinion on Bush would be accurate, but we wont know for a couple decades. As for Mr. Cinton, I would agree with you, however he has nothing to do with this discussion, and falling back on the "Bush isn't all that bad....Just look at Clinton" position, is a very tired and played out strategy, though the French Connection is a new one to me.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Astrocloud

Segmentation Fault.

Throw up Pointer Segment:

http://www.cnn.com/US/9607/30/clinton.terrorism/

Charlatan

That would be funny if it wasn't so true. Partisan politics. Let's face it. Fighting terrorism wouldn't be Bush's future claim of glory, as Marv suggests, if not for the devastation of September 11, 2001.

He would have just found some other way to invade Iraq.

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Marvelous Marv

Perhaps if I post this, I can simply link to it the next time a Bush-basher says, “I don’t care if Clinton committed murder while in office.” I’m not interested in going back to find that post, but it did appear on TFP. I will, however, give an analogy of why I think what you call a "tired and played out strategy" is relevant.

Let’s say one of your kids has his or her heart set on a bicycle. You, being short on funds at the moment, say there’s no money for one. Your kid starts a neighborhood leaf-raking service, works his butt off, and over six or eight months, earns enough for this fancy bike. You take him to the bike store, where he proudly plops down his money and rides the bike home. A real Kodak moment.


However, the dirt-bag father who lives on the next block has a kid or two who take after their old man. A couple of days later, your kid has gone somewhere, and since he didn’t know to buy a lock for the bike, dirt-bag’s kid heists it. No one sees him do it, and no one has seen your kid in possession of his new bike.


A month or two later, dirt-bag’s kid is observed riding the bike. You verify that, and call the father. He calls you unpleasant names, like “liar.” Says the whole neighborhood is participating in a “conspiracy to get him.” So you call the cops, but your kid didn’t know to save the receipt, and you can’t prove anything. You and your kid are out of luck.


Fast forward a year or so, and dirt-bag kid leaves the bike lying around. Your kid sees it, and takes his property back. However, once your kid is seen riding it, you get a call from dirt-bag father, calling your kid a thief, and threatening to call the cops. There are now plenty of neighbors who have seen dirt-bag kid riding the bike, and you still don’t have any proof that the bike originally belonged to yours. Dirt-bag father, who managed to ignore crime in the past, is now a champion of justice, as far as your kid’s “crime” is concerned.

So how forgiving will you now choose to be in regard to the original theft, and how forgiving of the current "theft?" Me too.

I’m really not interested in all of the "reasons" that will soon be posted in regard to how this “isn’t comparable” to Clinton and Bush. The crimes/lies committed by Clinton affected (and continue to affect) me, my friends, and my family. I’m NOT talking about Monica, either. I choose not to give Clinton a free pass for the crime while I’m still doing the time.

Yes, at some point, it’s useless to hang on to past injustices (like slavery, since no one living today was a slave when it was legal in the US, or Mexicans claiming they still own Texas and California), but some issues (Nazi war criminals, DNA evidence from 30-year old trials) are still being decided that are quite a bit older than Clinton’s misdeeds. Child molestation now seems to have an indefinite period in which charges can be filed.

Summation: If a dishonest politician affects my life, I am not willing to accept an arbitrary “statute of limitations” defense from someone who’s only a champion of justice in regard to Bush. Nor will I be anxious to clean up a situation the other party was only too happy to tolerate when it worked to their advantage.

Don’t like my analogy? Let’s condense your philosophy, then. If Bush okays drilling in the ANWR, outlaws abortion, and privatizes Social Security, by your reasoning, he gets a clean slate in January of 2009. “It’s time to move on,” as some here would say.

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"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
Margaret Thatcher

Astrocloud

Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks?

smooth

I was thinking the same thing astrocloud, I just didn't know there was a term for it!
unfortunately, to my time and sanity's sake, I actually read the whole friggin post...

I also suspect the only time anyone ever said they didn't care if Clinton murdered someone while in office was in a post like this...that is, attributed to some "liberal's" viewpoint in some bizarre caricature.

Maybe some of us should try to see how it works the other way: I remember someone saying that they didn't care if Bush killed Iraqi citizens, it's a good thing that saddam is out of power. I don't feel like looking up the post...in a year from now I can "remember" this post as someone posting what I just wrote; win-win baby.

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"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

Poppinjay

My head A-splode.

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I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

raeanna74

Hitler was a brilliant strategist, an excellent orator, and a driven man. It should be EASY to draw similarities between him and many different leaders or movers in this world. He studied speach and filmed himself to learn to be a better motivational speaker. He had a father who pushed him to excell in military school (if I remember right - it's been years since I read Mine Kampf (sp?) ).

Hitler managed to accomplish what he did because he knew how to move the public in his direction. Any leader needs to do that or they are not a leader. The problem is the insane direction in which the German public was lead.

I guess the question that this teacher did not address - What would have happened had the people who followed Hitler NOT followed him?? and What would happen if we did not follow the direction that our government is taking??

I do believe that the teacher needs to stick with his subject matter. A classroom is not intended to be each teacher's soapbox. If it was then we'd have teachers talking about their own religion and we don't do we??

Disagreeing with a teacher politically should not be a problem. I differed with a teacher in government class in highschool. The teacher gave me full credit for all my work so long as I was able to support my position.

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"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

DonovanDuVal

According to a piece in 'This Week' that I read 'Recording teachers is a new trend in schools in the US: one right-wing group recently offered pupils $100 for tapes illustrating left-wing bias among teachers.'

Reading the transcript that Jinnkai posted I think that a lot of people have been a little quick to condemn this guy. He never said that Bush is like Hitler. All he said was that some of the things that Bush said sound like things that Hitler said. He even goes on to say 'I'm not saying Bush and Hitler are exactly the same. Obviously they're, not,'

Although I would say that offering kids rewards for taping teachers does seem to have certain fascist implications. Assuming that it's true of course, which given that they didn't name the group may not be the case.

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"I've been Donovan DuVal. Take care of yourselves, and each other."

Marvelous Marv

Yes, it's incredibly far-fetched that someone might see a dirt-bag's kid with a stolen bike. I'm glad the three of you weren't around scratching your heads when I recovered my son's stolen skateboard.

But thanks for the link. Now I have an appropriate and convenient response for Host's posts.

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"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
Margaret Thatcher

Astrocloud

Did you actually see president Clinton steal your son's bike?

tecoyah

Wow....guess you managed to sum up my stance on politics by viewing a single line of a single paragraph. Or....maybe you extrapolated what you wanted from my statement. My point was simple, and only my own opinion, as I tend to make clear in all posts I place on these boards. Still, I will attempt to clarify further my intended position.
While I understand, and agree that Mr Clinton had much to be desired as the president of this country, I prefer to focus on something a bit more tangible....you know....the guy running this country right now. I did quite understand your analogy, though I found it somewhat lacking in the context of this discussion. Lets try this one on for size:

Same kid steals my kids bike. Months later my kid steals it back, A year later Bad kids dad tries to take the bike away from my kid, and I am having a beer on the porch as he does so. Do I decide to talk to the Kid that stole the bike over a year ago.....or do I beat the shit out of his Dad?

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

TexanAvenger

Hitler was also methed up most of the time. If we're going to compare the two men on one front, can we look at this one too?

But no. The rant this man gives is out of line. I would not have a problem with teachers talking about their own religion in the classroom, but this man doesn't seem the type (at least in this verbal spew) to academically discuss things; he seems to like to yell them, push them, force them.

By the way, a lot of the heads of the tobacco companies like to make their home in Lexington, Kentucky and the surrounding area. Sure, Durham is still involved in the process... but that was a job they were much more renowned for around the middle of the last century. So while he condemns the use of force in other countries based on outright false or extremely questionable reasoning, he asks if other countries should not bomb us... based on outright false or extremely questionable reasoning. Way to go.