Cheney Shoots Donor in Hunting Accident - Page 3 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

maleficent · 02-14-2006, 09:15 AM

Quote:

LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- Television talk shows took aim Monday at Vice President Dick Cheney's accidental weekend shooting in Texas of a hunting companion. Here are a few of the jokes.

"Late Show with David Letterman," CBS

"Good news, ladies and gentlemen, we have finally located weapons of mass destruction: It's Dick Cheney."

"But here is the sad part -- before the trip Donald Rumsfeld had denied the guy's request for body armor."

"We can't get Bin Laden, but we nailed a 78-year-old attorney."

"The guy who got gunned down, he is a Republican lawyer and a big Republican donor and fortunately the buck shot was deflected by wads of laundered cash. So he's fine. He took a little in the wallet."

"The Tonight Show with Jay Leno," NBC

"Although it is beautiful here in California, the weather back East has been atrocious. There was so much snow in Washington, D.C., Dick Cheney accidentally shot a fat guy thinking it was a polar bear."

"That's the big story over the weekend. ... Dick Cheney accidentally shot a fellow hunter, a 78-year-old lawyer. In fact, when people found out he shot a lawyer, his popularity is now at 92 percent."

"I think Cheney is starting to lose it. After he shot the guy he screamed, 'Anyone else want to call domestic wire tapping illegal?' "

"Dick Cheney is capitalizing on this for Valentine's Day. It's the new Dick Cheney cologne. It's called Duck!"

"The Daily Show with Jon Stewart," Comedy Central

The show's segment titles included "Cheney's Got a Gun," "No. 2 With a Bullet" and "Dead-Eye Dick."

"Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally shot a man during a quail hunt ... making 78-year-old Harry Whittington the first person shot by a sitting veep since Alexander Hamilton. Hamilton, of course, (was) shot in a duel with Aaron Burr over issues of honor, integrity and political maneuvering. Whittington? Mistaken for a bird."

"Now, this story certainly has its humorous aspects. ... But it also raises a serious issue, one which I feel very strongly about. ... Moms, dads, if you're watching right now, I can't emphasize this enough: Do not let your kids go on hunting trips with the vice president. I don't care what kind of lucrative contracts they're trying to land, or energy regulations they're trying to get lifted -- it's just not worth it."

"Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson," CBS

"He is a lawyer and he got shot in the face. But he's a lawyer, he can use his other face. He'll be all right."

"You can understand why this lawyer fellow let his guard down, because if you're out hunting with a politician, you think, 'If I'm going to get it, it's going to be in the back.' "

"The big scandal apparently is that they didn't release the news for 18 hours. I don't think that's a scandal at all. I'm quite pleased about that. Finally there's a secret the vice president's office can keep."

"Apparently the reason they didn't release the information right away is they said we had to get the facts right. That's never stopped them in the past."

anyone want to take bets on what a the opening skit on SNL will be this week?

BigBen · 02-14-2006, 09:31 AM

This is toooo easy.

In my day, comedy writers had to work hard to find humerous situations involving politicians.

pan6467 · 02-14-2006, 09:34 AM

Ah Mal, Mal, Mal......

How fucking sad. I'm sure if it were any of them at 78 being shot they wouldn't be so glib about it.

This is my party?????? WTF

I want cold and callous I'll join the GOP...... yet I can see what sort of compassion my party has.

Where does a truly compassionate and caring man turn these days to find a political party that truly turns the other cheek, prays for his enemies and hopes a 78 yr. old man has a truly speedy and safe recovery?

I expect the late night people to mock this because as seen on this board, people find this funny, so sad.

maleficent · 02-14-2006, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

I want cold and callous I'll join the GOP...... .

ah -- so THAT'S why i'm cold.. I had no idea it was because i was a republican... I really just thought it was because I was a bitch - learn something new every day..

pan6467 · 02-14-2006, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

ah -- so THAT'S why i'm cold.. I had no idea it was because i was a republican... I really just thought it was because I was a bitch - learn something new every day..

NOw that is harmless humor.

Poppinjay · 02-14-2006, 10:37 AM

I think this is harmless humour. Nobody seriously thinks Cheney, orney and cantankerous as he may be, was out to gun somebody down, the guy has some superficial wounds - he'll get better, and Cheney hates the press and wanted to avoid being the target of the Sabbath gasbags, so he sat on the event for 19 hours.

It's reminiscent of Carter's attack rabbit fishing episode.

I think Ferguson's lawyer jokes were a bit tasteless, but that's why he's on a show nobody watches. The other jokes poked fun at Cheney and the administration's foibles.

This should be good instructions for politicians: If you pursue a sporting life, don't hunt - you look stupid in the cammy and you may accidently shoot somebody, don't fish - you may fall in, don't ski - you'll Ford yourself, don't mountain bike or even ride a segue. If you have to do something, jog. And wear decent length shorts.

maleficent · 02-14-2006, 10:40 AM

ok - maybe not so funny...

BREAKING NEWS

Man shot and wounded by Vice President Cheney suffers "minor heart attack" after birdshot becomes lodged in his heart, hospital spokesman says.

(no story yet on CNN or Google News)

Poppinjay · 02-14-2006, 10:48 AM

Well then, I have to take it all back.

maleficent · 02-14-2006, 10:51 AM

Hunter shot by Cheney has 'minor heart attack'

Quote:

CORPUS CHRISTI, Texas (CNN) -- The man shot and wounded by Vice President Dick Cheney has suffered a "minor heart attack" after a piece of birdshot migrated and became lodged in his heart, a hospital spokesman said Tuesday.

The man, campaign contributor Harry Whittington, 78, is in stable condition and has been moved back into intensive care and will remain hospitalized for up to seven days.

"Some of the bird shot appears to have moved and lodged into part of his heart ... in what we would say is a minor heart attack," said Peter Banko, administrator at Christus Spohn Hospital Corpus Christi-Memorial.

Authorities have cleared Cheney of wrongdoing in the shooting of Whittington, but questions about Saturday's incident remain.

During Tuesday's White House news conference, spokesman Scott McClellan was asked if waiting 14 hours after the shooting before Cheney spoke with police was appropriate, and whether an average citizen would have been afforded the same amount of time.

"That was what was arranged with the local law enforcement authorities," McClellan said. "You ought to ask them that question."

McClellan referred other questions about Cheney's shooting of Whittington, a Bush-Cheney campaign contributor, to the vice president's office and local police.

Cheney arrived for work at the White House on Tuesday without comment and a spokeswoman said the vice president had no plans for any public statement about the matter.

Cheney and Whittington were hunting quail on a friend's south Texas ranch Saturday when the accident took place.

The state Parks and Wildlife Department issued Cheney a warning for not possessing a required stamp on his hunting license, but the sheriff's deputies announced there was "no alcohol or misconduct involved in the incident."

"This department is fully satisfied that this was no more than a hunting accident," the Kenedy County Sheriff's Department announced in a statement issued Monday evening. (Watch reporters pepper White House spokesman with questions about the shooting -- 2:03)

Sheriff's deputies in Kenedy County, near Corpus Christi, questioned Cheney on Sunday and Whittington on Monday. Whittington was out of intensive care Monday and in stable condition at a Corpus Christi hospital.

Cheney's office said a staffer who obtained the vice president's hunting license was not told he needed the $7 upland game bird stamp that Texas game wardens determined was missing. Cheney was issued a warning, and Cheney said he will send the Parks and Wildlife Department a check for the stamp.

Before Tuesday's announcement about Whittington's health, Christus Spohn Memorial Hospital in Corpus Christi said he had been removed from intensive care. He was "carrying on lively conversation, reading the paper," Banko said.

A prominent Texas lawyer and a campaign donor to the Bush-Cheney campaigns in 2000 and 2004, Whittington was hit on the right side of his face, neck and chest when Cheney turned to fire on a covey of quail at a ranch near Kingsville, Texas, on Saturday. But Cheney's office did not disclose the shooting until Sunday afternoon, after the family that owns the ranch told a Corpus Christi newspaper about it. (Time.com: How Cheney stalled news reports)

McClellan told reporters on Monday that the focus in the immediate aftermath of the shooting was to make sure the man Cheney wounded got medical attention.

"It's important, always, to work to make sure you get information out like this as quickly as possible," McClellan said. "But it's also important to make sure that the first priority is focused where it should be, and that is making sure that Mr. Whittington has the care that he needs."

McClellan said Cheney agreed that his friend Katharine Armstrong, who accompanied the shooting party, should tell the Corpus Christi Caller-Times about the incident, a move that provoked sharp questions from reporters.

Asked whether it was appropriate "for a private citizen to be the person to disseminate the information that the vice president of the United States has shot someone," McClellan said, "That's one way to provide information to the public."

"The vice president spoke with her directly and agreed that she should make it public and that they would provide additional information," he said.

Cheney, an avid hunter, was shooting at a covey of quail at the Armstrong Ranch near Kingsville, southwest of Corpus Christi, when the accident occurred. According to Armstrong, a daughter of Anne Armstrong, Whittington shot a quail, dropped back from the rest of the hunting party to retrieve it and was rejoining the group when Cheney fired.

Katharine Armstrong said no one discussed informing the public about the incident until Sunday morning, when she and her mother raised the matter with Cheney. Saturday night, she said, "The only concern we all had was about Harry."

But she said Cheney made it clear he knew it had to be made public.

A medical team accompanying the vice president administered first aid to Whittington when the accident occurred at 5:50 p.m., Secret Service spokesman Tom Mazur said. The Secret Service told sheriff's deputies about the accident an hour later, after Whittington was headed for a hospital in Kingsville and the hunting party had returned to the ranch house, he said.

A Kenedy County sheriff's deputy questioned Cheney about the shooting on Sunday, Mazur said.

White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card told President Bush about 7:30 p.m. Saturday that there had been a hunting accident, but Card did not know the vice president had been involved at the time, the White House said. About 8 p.m., after talking with Armstrong, Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove told Bush that Cheney had shot Whittington.

Whittington was hit upon rejoining the group and "apparently came up unannounced" as Cheney prepared to fire, Armstrong said Sunday.

Whittington has been active in Texas GOP politics since the 1960s and served as chairman of the state Board of Corrections from 1979 to 1985. In 1999, then-Gov. Bush named him to the state Funeral Services Commission, which had been stung by allegations of widespread corruption and mismanagement in the industry. (Whittington profile)

Anne Armstrong served on the board of directors of Halliburton, the oil field service company Cheney ran before becoming vice president. She also served as U.S. ambassador to Britain in the Ford administration.

/me waits for the obligatory jokes about the lawyer having a heart

Stompy · 02-14-2006, 10:53 AM

Accidental or not, if that person dies, it's considered manslaughter.

Accidental or not, any other person would be locked up right now.

It doesn't matter if you're Liberal or Conservative, you have to at least acknowledge that he's acting (and being treated) above the law. Anything else would be ... arguing just for the sake of arguing.

No, he didn't do anything criminal, but intent doesn't matter in every single other case. For example, you could be driving and have your tire blow out.. if you plow into someone and kill them, you aren't gonna head on home with an "oh well, it was an accident." You'd still more than likely serve time for it (which I think is utterly stupid.. you shouldn't serve time for an accident).

It's just boils down to the fact if it was anyone else, they wouldn't be walking free right now.

SirLance · 02-14-2006, 10:55 AM

THe secret service said "Mr Vice President! There's quail in the bush!"

Cheney heard, "Mr. Vice President! There's Bush!"

So he fired...

pan6467 · 02-14-2006, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stompy

Accidental or not, if that person dies, it's considered manslaughter.

Accidental or not, any other person would be locked up right now.

It doesn't matter if you're Liberal or Conservative, you have to at least acknowledge that he's acting (and being treated) above the law. Anything else would be ... arguing just for the sake of arguing.

No, he didn't do anything criminal, but intent doesn't matter in every single other case. For example, you could be driving and have your tire blow out.. if you plow into someone and kill them, you aren't gonna head on home with an "oh well, it was an accident." You'd still more than likely serve time for it (which I think is utterly stupid.. you shouldn't serve time for an accident).

It's just boils down to the fact if it was anyone else, they wouldn't be walking free right now.

That highlighted part I agree with 110%, in fact your whole post I agree with.

If it had been anyone on this board we'd be sitting in a jail cell or out on bail, waiting for the DA to determine whether he wanted to pursue a case.

The humor I do not and find it abhorishly juvenile.

maleficent · 02-14-2006, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

The humor I do not and find it abhorishly juvenile.

What is wrong with making light of a not so good situation... Humor is a coping mechanism for a lot of people.. .heck I know customers and colleagues like having me around because I can find humor in practically any situation... The person who got shot isn't being laughed at -- the situation is absurd... absurd situations bring humor..

pan6467 · 02-14-2006, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

ok - maybe not so funny...

BREAKING NEWS

Man shot and wounded by Vice President Cheney suffers "minor heart attack" after birdshot becomes lodged in his heart, hospital spokesman says.

(no story yet on CNN or Google News)

But, but, but it was FUCKING harmless!!!!!!!!! And the FUCKING Right who played it off as it was nothing also, just to protect their VP.

What a sense of compassion, I'm sorry but someone is shot and it's harmless humor?

Sometimes people truly disgust me.

pan6467 · 02-14-2006, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

What is wrong with making light of a not so good situation... Humor is a coping mechanism for a lot of people.. .heck I know customers and colleagues like having me around because I can find humor in practically any situation... The person who got shot isn't being laughed at -- the situation is absurd... absurd situations bring humor..

Humor in light of something that happens and you have to release is one thing.

But come on, the only reason people are making light of this is to take digs at the VP. If this hadn't been the VP, most of these people and none of the late night hosts would be joking about it.

How is someone ANYONE being shot in the face and chest absurd? Why because the man who did the shooting is the VP? Or because the man shot is a GOP lawyer? Where's humor?

Was it a Jerry Lewis Dean Martin routine? Maybe a 3 Stooges? I truly see no humor. I see partisanship on both sides and I don't see 1 person saying they hope the man is ok.

Put the freaking partisanship away and realize this is a 78 yr old man.

I guarantee 99% of the people who laugh now and have been laughing, if this had happened to them they wouldn't find humor in it.

Jesus, he's a 78 yr old man. Where's the concern for him? Where's the compassion for him?

It's a human being and he was shot in the face and chest and people are finding it humorous or working hard to say, "Oh it's nothing".

Again, let's go hunting and let me shoot you like that and let's see the humor in all of it.

It's not about being self righteous and pious..... IT's about maintaining my dignity and beliefs in caring about another human being.

Charlatan · 02-14-2006, 11:36 AM

Pan... if it was anyone else who had done this, I find it highly unlikely that any of us would even be talking about it...

The only reason it is newsworthy, the only reason it is even remotely funny is simply because it was the VP of the US that did it.

Tragedy is the wellspring of comedy. Political tragedy only moreso. If pressed, most would agree that they are concerned for the wellfare of anyone who has been shot. The fact that this guy seems to be in stable condition seems to say that, he's going to be OK. These sorts of accidents happen all the time. I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

Besides, the VP doesn't need to be in jail. If the DA needs to find him, he know where to go. It isn't like Cheney can dissappear without a trace.

Stompy · 02-14-2006, 11:41 AM

It doesn't matter if he "needs" to be in jail.

If you or I are required to serve time until we either post bail or have charges cleared, why isn't he? Technically his charges were cleared, but it was premature. It wouldn't have been done otherwise. If this guy dies, it's a crime.

Under the constitution, he's not allowed to be above the law in such a manner.

That's my main issue with all of this. It's easy to say "Oh, people are just saying this because it's the Bush administration," but I'd expect there to be just as much uproar if a Dem were to be in the same situation and allowed to walk free (or be treated higher) than everyone else.

Either change the law to ignore "accidents", or follow through with the same treatment others have to go through!

pan6467 · 02-14-2006, 11:50 AM

Hysterically funny..... and while the people laugh Cheney walks away scot free.

Quote:

Hunter Shot by Cheney Has Heart Attack By LYNN BREZOSKY and NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writers
31 minutes ago

The 78-year-old lawyer who was shot by Vice President Dick Cheney in a hunting accident has some birdshot lodged in his heart and he had "a minor heart attack" Tuesday morning, hospital officials said.

The victim, Harry Whittington, was immediately moved back to the intensive care unit for further treatment, said Peter Banko, the administrator at Christus Spohn Hospital Corpus Christi-Memorial in Texas.

Banko said there was an irregularity in the heartbeat caused by a pellet, and doctors performed a cardiac catheterization. Whittington expressed a desire to leave the hospital, but Banko said he would probably stay for another week to make sure more shot doesn't move to other organs or to other part of his body.

"Some of the birdshot appears to have moved and lodged into part of his heart in what we would say is a minor heart attack," Banko said in a news conference outside the hospital.

David Blanchard, chief of emergency care, called it "a silent heart attack, an asymptomatic heart attack. He's not had a heart attack in the traditional sense."

The doctors said Whittington did not experience symptoms of a heart attack or any other problems. They left the birdshot in place and said he could live a healthy life with it there.

White House physicians who attended to Whittington at the scene after Cheney accidentally shot him were involved in the treatment, the officials said.

Whittington had initially been placed in intensive care after the accident Saturday evening. He had been moved to a "step-down unit" Monday after doctors decided to leave several birdshot pellets lodged in his skin rather than try to remove them.

A Texas Parks and Wildlife Department report issued Monday said Whittington was retrieving a downed bird and stepped out of the hunting line he was sharing with Cheney. "Another covey was flushed and Cheney swung on a bird and fired, striking Whittington in the face, neck and chest at approximately 30 yards," the report said.

The department found the main factor contributing to the accident was a "hunter's judgment factor." No other secondary factors were found to have played a role.

The department gave Cheney and Whittington warning citations for breaking Texas hunting law by failing to buy a $7 stamp allowing them to shoot upland game birds. A department spokesman said warnings are being issued in most cases because the stamp requirement only went into effect five months ago and many hunters weren't aware of it.

Cheney's office said Monday night in a statement that Cheney had a $125 nonresident hunting license and has sent a $7 check to cover the cost of the stamp. "The staff asked for all permits needed, but was not informed of the $7 upland game bird stamp requirement," the statement said.

Cheney, an experienced hunter, has not said anything publicly about the accident. It was fodder for jokes on late night TV and early Tuesday at the White House, before news surfaced about problems with Whittington's heart.

Hospital officials said they notified the White House of the change in Whittington's condition late in the morning. The mood of press secretary Scott McClellan was much more serious in an afternoon press briefing shortly before the hospital publicly updated Whittington's condition.

Katharine Armstrong, owner of the ranch where the shooting occurred, said Whittington made a mistake by not announcing that he had walked up to rejoin the hunting line after going to retrieve his bird, and Cheney didn't see him as he tried to down a bird.

The accident raised questions about Cheney's adherence to hunting safety practices and the White House's failure to disclose the accident in a timely way.

Several hunting safety experts agreed in interviews that it would have been a good idea for Whittington to announce himself. But every expert stressed that the shooter is responsible for avoiding other people.

Bush was told about Cheney's involvement in the accident shortly before 8 p.m. Saturday — about an hour after it occurred — but the White House did not disclose the accident until Sunday afternoon, and then only in response to press questions.

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/us/bush_administration

pan6467 · 02-14-2006, 11:55 AM

Clinton gets trashed in every way and tried for lying about a very private affair.

Cheney shoots a 78 yr. old man and walks away scot free. While people tell "harmless jokes".

That's justice man.

dksuddeth · 02-14-2006, 12:00 PM

all accidental deaths are NOT considered manslaughter.

If you have a blow out, hit a bus and kill 12 students, and its determined that the blowout was caused by debris in the road, you are not at fault. If the blow out was caused because you had the same tire on the car when you bought it in in 1972, THEN you're guilty of manslaughter.

SaltPork · 02-14-2006, 12:02 PM

who cares?? I mean seriously, are our lives so meaningless that this matters? If it was just some locals down in Texas this wouldn't even be news.

Hey here's a newsflash...don't walk behind someone carrying a loaded shotgun and is hunting for skittish birds.

BTW-Clinton lied under oath, perjured himself if you will, Cheney hasn't gotten that far. Make no mistake, I don't like any of them, but let's really look at what happened. Most people that commit perjury go to jail. All he got was a tongue lashing

(pun intended).

pan6467 · 02-14-2006, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

all accidental deaths are NOT considered manslaughter.

If you have a blow out, hit a bus and kill 12 students, and its determined that the blowout was caused by debris in the road, you are not at fault. If the blow out was caused because you had the same tire on the car when you bought it in in 1972, THEN you're guilty of manslaughter.

BIG difference between a blowout and firing a gun.

One you have CONTROL of and the other you don't. Or are people now going to say, "well when hunting it's up to the other person to acknowledge his presence before the shot.... because it's shoot before making sure the line of fire is clear"?

BigBen · 02-14-2006, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

...If the blow out was caused because you had the same tire on the car when you bought it in in 1972, THEN you're guilty of manslaughter.

Um, I think that would qualify for Criminal Negligence causing Death.

If you told your friends that you hoped one day that your tire would blow, causing someone to die, then your intent was to cause harm; I think THAT would be manslaughter (ben is not a lawyer).

Charlatan · 02-14-2006, 12:04 PM

Relax. How long did Clinton get beat up before he was finally impeached? It was months and months.

How long has it been since this accident happened... four days (if that). The system doesn't work like that. The man isn't above the law, if there is a reason to arrest him, they will.

I see no reason at this point to be especially partisan about it.

Given the change in Whittington's status to intensive care and the heart attack, I think you will see a change in tone with the Late Night comedy. Previous reports said he was doing fine.

SaltPork · 02-14-2006, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBen

Um, I think that would qualify for Criminal Negligence causing Death.

If you told your friends that you hoped one day that your tire would blow, causing someone to die, then your intent was to cause harm; I think THAT would be manslaughter (ben is not a lawyer).

yeah......no

Poppinjay · 02-14-2006, 12:11 PM

If it had been me that he shot, given the circumstance and damage done, I would have called him a major league asshole who couldn't aim for shit. And then I would thank him for being such a medical disaster waiting to happen that he has to keep a M*A*S*H* unit on hand.

If anybody else had made this shot? They would not be in jail. This happens with regularity and most often the people involved aren't charged with anything.

pan6467 · 02-14-2006, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

Relax. How long did Clinton get beat up before he was finally impeached? It was months and months.

How long has it been since this accident happened... four days (if that). The system doesn't work like that. The man isn't above the law, if there is a reason to arrest him, they will.

I see no reason at this point to be especially partisan about it.

Given the change in Whittington's status to intensive care and the heart attack, I think you will see a change in tone with the Late Night comedy. Previous reports said he was doing fine.

Go figure a 78 yr. old shot in the face and chest not as harmless as was previously reported.

The partisanship started with the humor. Then the Right had to work so freaking hard to defend the man. The whole issue is partisan.

And my gut tells me if Cheney had shot a Dem. those laughing would be taking it far more seriously and sparking up all kinds of paranoid conspiracy threats.

BigBen · 02-14-2006, 12:25 PM

Jesus, he must have been hit bad to get pellets into his bloodstream and now into his heart...

You would think that with the high quality healthcare you guys have, a simple x-ray would have shown all of the pellets remaining, and then quickly removed by a crack team of surgeons.

HOLD ON.

I was making a very funny joke about how all of our discussions are partisan and quickly jump from heated topic to heated topic.

I WAS KIDDING. Please see the humour. I hope this old, rich, bald white guy makes a speedy recovery.

Bill O'Rights · 02-14-2006, 12:31 PM

I am going to ask one time, and one time only, for the hysterics to be calmed down in here. Cool? Cool. 'Nuff said.

Charlatan · 02-14-2006, 12:34 PM

It could have gone either way regarding his health.

Are you suggesting the Leno, Letterman and Stewart (among others) are shills for the Republicans? They make their living telling jokes. Like I said, tragedy is the wellspring of comedy. This was a stupid accident. Cheney has a "tough guy" persona... humour falls naturally from this situation.

Anyone can see there is some major spinning being done by the Republicans. Why wouldn't they try to spin? Any politician in this situation would spin.

There are some fishy details about his leaving, when it was reported, etc. For all intents and purposes it looks like it was an accident. I am certain it will be investigated. If it is anything but an accident, it will come out.

If Cheney had shot a Dem, the first question would be, "why was he hanging out with a dem in the first place?"

This is, until something different comes up, nothing more troubling than Bush falling off his bike or choking on a pretzel. It shows that Cheney is human and can fuck up just like anyone else.

The fact that he shot his friend and his friend may die makes the story all the more tragic. I think you will see that if Whittington's status goes from worse to death the tone of the story will follow appropriately. Prior to this, he was an old guy that took a couple pieces of buckshot. Now it is starting to look more serious.

Give the story time to develop.

Poppinjay · 02-14-2006, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBen

Jesus, he must have been hit bad to get pellets into his bloodstream and now into his heart...

You would think that with the high quality healthcare you guys have, a simple x-ray would have shown all of the pellets remaining, and then quickly removed by a crack team of surgeons.

HOLD ON.

I was making a very funny joke about how all of our discussions are partisan and quickly jump from heated topic to heated topic.

I WAS KIDDING. Please see the humour. I hope this old, rich, bald white guy makes a speedy recovery.

HEY! I don't think he was bald.

Charlatan · 02-14-2006, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poppinjay

HEY! I don't think he was bald.

This is how rumours start.

pan6467 · 02-14-2006, 12:42 PM

I give up..... I just guess I lack a sense of humor or justice.

78 yr. old GOP donor gets shot in the face, neck and chest by the VP = hysterically funny

Said shooter waits 18 hours before reporting it and has no legal consequences besides a $7 hunting stamp (also charged to the one who was shot) = legal... oops an accident, person needs to warn a shooter he's in the line of fire before the shooter makes sure the field of fire is clear.

So sorry to have been such a wet blanket to the partisan party going on.

To Mr. Whittington, sir I truly hope you recover fast and healthily. May God be with you.

Charlatan · 02-14-2006, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

So sorry to have been such a wet blanket to the partisan party going on.

Because Poppinjay and I have been such historical supporters of the Republican party.

What you are seeing is people saying they understand that accidents happen. They are agreeing that there is something odd about Cheney's actions. That they are as understandable as say, someone lying about his affair.

It isn't a huge deal until it is. At present it is a accidental tragedy that could have happened to anyone.

Superbelt · 02-14-2006, 01:18 PM

So, what we know now is this guy got the full shot. He was embedded with more than 200 of the 300 balls in the shot. Some of which penetrated through his ribcage into or against his heart.

Considering the % of balls he caught and the penetration, this was about a 20 foot shot right in this guys face and upper body.

OUCH.

Add to this the sheriffs report that they scheduled an interview with the Veep 14 hours after the event, and when a deputy came to take a statement much earlier than that, he was turned away.

For an event, a serious event like this. Noone keeps the law enforcement away from doing their job. Especially since Cheney was on leisure time he had no right to deny full access.

And it's his own fault that rumors of him being liquored up are going to spread like wildfire.
If this guy dies, I expect manslaughter and Obstruction of Justice charges to be filed against Cheney and O of J charges against the acting head of SS for the Veep, and dereliction of duty against the Sheriff.

Astrocloud · 02-14-2006, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stompy

Accidental or not, any other person would be locked up right now.

Don't you mean at any other time -right now we are at war and "Special Rules" apply.

See my comment on tilted paranoia. BTW when he dies I get prediction points from y'all.

dksuddeth · 02-14-2006, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

BIG difference between a blowout and firing a gun.

One you have CONTROL of and the other you don't. Or are people now going to say, "well when hunting it's up to the other person to acknowledge his presence before the shot.... because it's shoot before making sure the line of fire is clear"?

maybe you've never gone group hunting before but its a 50/50 thing. If you start in a group and then someone seperates themself, the remainder assumes he's gone until he tells you he's shown back up. It goes along the same lines as 'I'm walking the left, you're walking the right. we keep abreast and we'll be alright'. once you break that up, its up to both parties to ensure that they know where each other is at.

also, like someone else said before, if this was two locals involved, nobody would really give a damn. It's only news because its the VP. Remove that aspect of this and we'd only be talking about it being an accident.

BigBen · 02-15-2006, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superbelt

...Add to this the sheriffs report that they scheduled an interview with the Veep 14 hours after the event, and when a deputy came to take a statement much earlier than that, he was turned away.

Wow, I hadn't heard. If I was that deputy, I would have got my chief involved Right-Fucking-Now, and backed off to let the big dogs fight. How is this guy supposed to go against the Secret Service?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superbelt

For an event, a serious event like this. Noone keeps the law enforcement away from doing their job. Especially since Cheney was on leisure time he had no right to deny full access.

Ummmm, I think there is an element of priveledge that comes with political rank.
"Who are you?"
"I am the Vice-President of the United States of America."
"Never heard of ya. Back of the line, pal."

Is it right, in a democracy, to treat people with priveledge? No, of course not. I should be afforded the same treatment as the VP. Does it happen? You bet your ass it does. Hell, I don't think Jennifer Anniston or Paris Hilton have got a parking or speeding ticket in a decade.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superbelt

And it's his own fault that rumors of him being liquored up are going to spread like wildfire.
If this guy dies, I expect manslaughter and Obstruction of Justice charges to be filed against Cheney and O of J charges against the acting head of SS for the Veep, and dereliction of duty against the Sheriff.

I hadn't thought about the different charges that could be filed, but to mention it, you are probably pretty close. I would not give the Sheriff too hard a time, but would come down double hard on the Secret Service on this. Can you imagine what went through the SS close protection guys minds when this shit went down? It would be like watching some twisted independent film.

Bill O'Rights · 02-15-2006, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

...like someone else said before, if this was two locals involved, nobody would really give a damn. It's only news because its the VP. Remove that aspect of this and we'd only be talking about it being an accident.

Absolutely correct.
I think, though, that the concerns expressed by several members, and I have to question myself, is not so much that it happened (Hey, shit happens), but rather the secrecy involved afterword.
Did the VeeP suck down one too many Wild Turkey's before taking to the field? Was he under the influence? Well...maybe. We'll never know, now. But, if he wasn't, I would think that he'd want that fact to be made very clear, from the onset. Why was the sheriff's deputies turned away? That's not really an option available to "two locals". Now, perhaps he doesn't necessarily need to spend the night as a "guest" of the county, like Cletus or Jethro, but to postpone any investigation? No...it smells like last weeks tuna cassarole, to me.
Yes. Accidents do happen, and it sucks when they do. There does, however, need to be accountability, if not a reckoning. I think that's pretty basic.

msh58 · 02-15-2006, 08:01 AM

i thought it was really funny until the guy had a heart attack. I still think though it would be funny if dick cheney blew me away with bird shot.

i mean its an accident, whatever dick cheney is, he's not going on a tri state serial killing rampage from all this.

He'll let the military do it for him from now on. Live and learn, its what life is all about.

02-14-2006, 09:31 AM	#82 (permalink)
BigBen Comedian Location: Use the search button	This is toooo easy. In my day, comedy writers had to work hard to find humerous situations involving politicians. __________________ 3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

02-14-2006, 09:34 AM	#83 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Ah Mal, Mal, Mal...... How fucking sad. I'm sure if it were any of them at 78 being shot they wouldn't be so glib about it. This is my party?????? WTF I want cold and callous I'll join the GOP...... yet I can see what sort of compassion my party has. Where does a truly compassionate and caring man turn these days to find a political party that truly turns the other cheek, prays for his enemies and hopes a 78 yr. old man has a truly speedy and safe recovery? I expect the late night people to mock this because as seen on this board, people find this funny, so sad. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

02-14-2006, 10:37 AM	#86 (permalink)
Poppinjay You had me at hello Location: DC/Coastal VA	I think this is harmless humour. Nobody seriously thinks Cheney, orney and cantankerous as he may be, was out to gun somebody down, the guy has some superficial wounds - he'll get better, and Cheney hates the press and wanted to avoid being the target of the Sabbath gasbags, so he sat on the event for 19 hours. It's reminiscent of Carter's attack rabbit fishing episode. I think Ferguson's lawyer jokes were a bit tasteless, but that's why he's on a show nobody watches. The other jokes poked fun at Cheney and the administration's foibles. This should be good instructions for politicians: If you pursue a sporting life, don't hunt - you look stupid in the cammy and you may accidently shoot somebody, don't fish - you may fall in, don't ski - you'll Ford yourself, don't mountain bike or even ride a segue. If you have to do something, jog. And wear decent length shorts. __________________ I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

02-14-2006, 10:40 AM	#87 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	ok - maybe not so funny... BREAKING NEWS Man shot and wounded by Vice President Cheney suffers "minor heart attack" after birdshot becomes lodged in his heart, hospital spokesman says. (no story yet on CNN or Google News) __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

02-14-2006, 10:48 AM	#88 (permalink)
Poppinjay You had me at hello Location: DC/Coastal VA	Well then, I have to take it all back. __________________ I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

02-14-2006, 10:53 AM	#90 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	Accidental or not, if that person dies, it's considered manslaughter. Accidental or not, any other person would be locked up right now. It doesn't matter if you're Liberal or Conservative, you have to at least acknowledge that he's acting (and being treated) above the law. Anything else would be ... arguing just for the sake of arguing. No, he didn't do anything criminal, but intent doesn't matter in every single other case. For example, you could be driving and have your tire blow out.. if you plow into someone and kill them, you aren't gonna head on home with an "oh well, it was an accident." You'd still more than likely serve time for it (which I think is utterly stupid.. you shouldn't serve time for an accident). It's just boils down to the fact if it was anyone else, they wouldn't be walking free right now. __________________ I love lamp. Last edited by Stompy; 02-14-2006 at 10:57 AM..

02-14-2006, 10:55 AM	#91 (permalink)
SirLance Junkie Location: In the middle of the desert.	THe secret service said "Mr Vice President! There's quail in the bush!" Cheney heard, "Mr. Vice President! There's Bush!" So he fired... __________________ DEMOCRACY is where your vote counts, FEUDALISM is where your count votes.

02-14-2006, 11:36 AM	#96 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Pan... if it was anyone else who had done this, I find it highly unlikely that any of us would even be talking about it... The only reason it is newsworthy, the only reason it is even remotely funny is simply because it was the VP of the US that did it. Tragedy is the wellspring of comedy. Political tragedy only moreso. If pressed, most would agree that they are concerned for the wellfare of anyone who has been shot. The fact that this guy seems to be in stable condition seems to say that, he's going to be OK. These sorts of accidents happen all the time. I'm not going to lose sleep over it. Besides, the VP doesn't need to be in jail. If the DA needs to find him, he know where to go. It isn't like Cheney can dissappear without a trace. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

02-14-2006, 11:41 AM	#97 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	It doesn't matter if he "needs" to be in jail. If you or I are required to serve time until we either post bail or have charges cleared, why isn't he? Technically his charges were cleared, but it was premature. It wouldn't have been done otherwise. If this guy dies, it's a crime. Under the constitution, he's not allowed to be above the law in such a manner. That's my main issue with all of this. It's easy to say "Oh, people are just saying this because it's the Bush administration," but I'd expect there to be just as much uproar if a Dem were to be in the same situation and allowed to walk free (or be treated higher) than everyone else. Either change the law to ignore "accidents", or follow through with the same treatment others have to go through! __________________ I love lamp.

02-14-2006, 11:55 AM	#99 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Clinton gets trashed in every way and tried for lying about a very private affair. Cheney shoots a 78 yr. old man and walks away scot free. While people tell "harmless jokes". That's justice man. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

02-14-2006, 12:00 PM	#100 (permalink)
dksuddeth Junkie Location: bedford, tx	all accidental deaths are NOT considered manslaughter. If you have a blow out, hit a bus and kill 12 students, and its determined that the blowout was caused by debris in the road, you are not at fault. If the blow out was caused because you had the same tire on the car when you bought it in in 1972, THEN you're guilty of manslaughter. __________________ "no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

02-14-2006, 12:02 PM	#101 (permalink)
SaltPork Everything's better with bacon Location: In your local grocer's freezer.	who cares?? I mean seriously, are our lives so meaningless that this matters? If it was just some locals down in Texas this wouldn't even be news. Hey here's a newsflash...don't walk behind someone carrying a loaded shotgun and is hunting for skittish birds. BTW-Clinton lied under oath, perjured himself if you will, Cheney hasn't gotten that far. Make no mistake, I don't like any of them, but let's really look at what happened. Most people that commit perjury go to jail. All he got was a tongue lashing (pun intended). __________________ It was like that when I got here....I swear.

02-14-2006, 12:04 PM	#104 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Relax. How long did Clinton get beat up before he was finally impeached? It was months and months. How long has it been since this accident happened... four days (if that). The system doesn't work like that. The man isn't above the law, if there is a reason to arrest him, they will. I see no reason at this point to be especially partisan about it. Given the change in Whittington's status to intensive care and the heart attack, I think you will see a change in tone with the Late Night comedy. Previous reports said he was doing fine. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

02-14-2006, 12:11 PM	#106 (permalink)
Poppinjay You had me at hello Location: DC/Coastal VA	If it had been me that he shot, given the circumstance and damage done, I would have called him a major league asshole who couldn't aim for shit. And then I would thank him for being such a medical disaster waiting to happen that he has to keep a MASH unit on hand. If anybody else had made this shot? They would not be in jail. This happens with regularity and most often the people involved aren't charged with anything. __________________ I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

02-14-2006, 12:25 PM	#108 (permalink)
BigBen Comedian Location: Use the search button	Jesus, he must have been hit bad to get pellets into his bloodstream and now into his heart... You would think that with the high quality healthcare you guys have, a simple x-ray would have shown all of the pellets remaining, and then quickly removed by a crack team of surgeons. HOLD ON. I was making a very funny joke about how all of our discussions are partisan and quickly jump from heated topic to heated topic. I WAS KIDDING. Please see the humour. I hope this old, rich, bald white guy makes a speedy recovery. __________________ 3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

02-14-2006, 12:31 PM	#109 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	I am going to ask one time, and one time only, for the hysterics to be calmed down in here. Cool? Cool. 'Nuff said. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

02-14-2006, 12:34 PM	#110 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	It could have gone either way regarding his health. Are you suggesting the Leno, Letterman and Stewart (among others) are shills for the Republicans? They make their living telling jokes. Like I said, tragedy is the wellspring of comedy. This was a stupid accident. Cheney has a "tough guy" persona... humour falls naturally from this situation. Anyone can see there is some major spinning being done by the Republicans. Why wouldn't they try to spin? Any politician in this situation would spin. There are some fishy details about his leaving, when it was reported, etc. For all intents and purposes it looks like it was an accident. I am certain it will be investigated. If it is anything but an accident, it will come out. If Cheney had shot a Dem, the first question would be, "why was he hanging out with a dem in the first place?" This is, until something different comes up, nothing more troubling than Bush falling off his bike or choking on a pretzel. It shows that Cheney is human and can fuck up just like anyone else. The fact that he shot his friend and his friend may die makes the story all the more tragic. I think you will see that if Whittington's status goes from worse to death the tone of the story will follow appropriately. Prior to this, he was an old guy that took a couple pieces of buckshot. Now it is starting to look more serious. Give the story time to develop. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

02-14-2006, 12:42 PM	#113 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	I give up..... I just guess I lack a sense of humor or justice. 78 yr. old GOP donor gets shot in the face, neck and chest by the VP = hysterically funny Said shooter waits 18 hours before reporting it and has no legal consequences besides a $7 hunting stamp (also charged to the one who was shot) = legal... oops an accident, person needs to warn a shooter he's in the line of fire before the shooter makes sure the field of fire is clear. So sorry to have been such a wet blanket to the partisan party going on. To Mr. Whittington, sir I truly hope you recover fast and healthily. May God be with you. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

02-14-2006, 01:18 PM	#115 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	So, what we know now is this guy got the full shot. He was embedded with more than 200 of the 300 balls in the shot. Some of which penetrated through his ribcage into or against his heart. Considering the % of balls he caught and the penetration, this was about a 20 foot shot right in this guys face and upper body. OUCH. Add to this the sheriffs report that they scheduled an interview with the Veep 14 hours after the event, and when a deputy came to take a statement much earlier than that, he was turned away. For an event, a serious event like this. Noone keeps the law enforcement away from doing their job. Especially since Cheney was on leisure time he had no right to deny full access. And it's his own fault that rumors of him being liquored up are going to spread like wildfire. If this guy dies, I expect manslaughter and Obstruction of Justice charges to be filed against Cheney and O of J charges against the acting head of SS for the Veep, and dereliction of duty against the Sheriff.

02-15-2006, 08:01 AM	#120 (permalink)
msh58 Crazy	i thought it was really funny until the guy had a heart attack. I still think though it would be funny if dick cheney blew me away with bird shot. i mean its an accident, whatever dick cheney is, he's not going on a tri state serial killing rampage from all this. He'll let the military do it for him from now on. Live and learn, its what life is all about.