Danish Cartoon - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

stevie667 · 02-02-2006, 12:06 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4673908.stm

Quote:

Anger grows over Muhammad cartoon

Gunmen briefly surrounded the EU's Gaza office in protest at the images
Protests have spread across the Muslim world over the publication in Europe of cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.
The drawings, first printed in Denmark, sparked a fresh row when they were re-run in several newspapers, leading to the sacking of a French editor.

The man named to replace the France Soir editor has now resigned.

There have been anti-French and Danish protests in Pakistan over the cartoons but one Jordanian paper reprinted them urging Muslims to "be reasonable".

Palestinian gunmen briefly surrounded EU offices in Gaza to demand an apology over the cartoons.

We fought for freedom of religion...France Soir's owner should be ashamed

Marcel de Vries, Netherlands

Freedom of speech has its limits when it concerns others...How would it feel if Jesus Christ was the one insulted instead?

Randa Ahmed Essa, Egypt

Cartoon row: Your reaction

Norway has closed its mission in the West Bank to the public in response to threats from two militant groups against Norwegians, Danes and French people.

Foreign ministry spokesman Rune Bjaastad told the BBC News website that the office would remain closed until further notice, but no decision had yet been made on withdrawing staff.

Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak warned that the decision by some European papers to publish the cartoons could encourage terrorists.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai also strongly condemned their publication, saying it was "an affront... for hundreds of millions of people".

Hundreds of students demonstrated in the Pakistani cities of Lahore and Multan, burning flags and effigies of the Danish prime minister.

EU Trade Commissioner Peter Mandelson also criticised the European papers which re-ran the cartoons, saying they were "throwing petrol onto the flames of the original issue and the original offence that was taken".

Free speech

The row intensified on Wednesday when France Soir, alongside the 12 original cartoons, printed a new drawing on its front page showing Buddhist, Jewish, Muslim and Christian holy figures sitting on a cloud, with the caption "Don't worry Muhammad, we've all been caricatured here."

Publications in Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Spain also re-ran the Danish cartoons to show support for free speech.

CARTOON ROW

30 Sept: Danish paper Jyllands-Posten publishes cartoons
20 Oct: Muslim ambassadors in Denmark complain to Danish PM
10 Jan: Norwegian publication reprints cartoons
26 Jan: Saudi Arabia recalls its ambassador
30 Jan: Gunmen raid EU's Gaza office demanding apology
31 Jan: Danish paper apologises
1 Feb: Papers in France, Germany, Italy and Spain reprint cartoons

Q&A: Depicting Muhammad
In pictures: Cartoon outrage
Islamic tradition bans depictions of the Prophet or Allah.

France Soir's editor, Jacques Lefranc, was dismissed by the paper's French-Egyptian owner in response to criticism from Muslim groups.

But journalists at France Soir stood by their editor's decision on Thursday, printing a front page picture and editorial in which they strongly defended the right to free speech.

The man named to replace Mr Lefranc in an interim role, Eric Fauveau, said he could not take up the post and also resigned as director general of Presse Alliance, France Soir's publishing group.

Mr Fauveau called the dismissal of Mr Lefranc "inopportune".

Jordanian independent tabloid al-Shihan reprinted three of the cartoons on Thursday, saying people should know what they were protesting about, AFP news agency reports.

"Muslims of the world be reasonable," wrote editor Jihad Momani.

"What brings more prejudice against Islam, these caricatures or pictures of a hostage-taker slashing the throat of his victim in front of the cameras or a suicide bomber who blows himself up during a wedding ceremony in Amman?"

The article in al-Shihan also included a list of Danish products.

MUSLIM CONCERNS OVER ART
1989: Iranian spiritual leader Ayatollah Khomeini calls on Muslims to kill British author Salman Rushdie for alleged blasphemy in his book The Satanic Verses
2002: Nigerian journalist Isioma Daniel's article about Prophet and Miss World contestants sparks deadly riots
2004: Dutch film maker Theo van Gogh killed after release of his documentary about violence against Muslim women
2005: London's Tate Britain museum cancels plans to display sculpture by John Latham for fear of offending Muslims after July bombings

Some Muslim countries are already boycotting Danish products after a paper there first printed the cartoons last September.

Danish-Swedish dairy giant Arla Foods says its sales in the Middle East have plummeted to zero as a result.

In diplomatic protests, Syria and Saudi Arabia have recalled their ambassadors to Denmark, and Libya has closed its embassy in Copenhagen.

The caricatures from Denmark's Jyllands-Posten paper included drawings of Muhammad wearing a headdress shaped like a bomb, while another shows him saying that paradise is running short of virgins for suicide bombers.

The offices of Jyllands-Posten had to be evacuated on Tuesday because of a bomb threat.

The paper had apologised a day earlier for causing offence to Muslims, although it maintained it was legal under Danish law to print the cartoons.

Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen welcomed the paper's apology, but has rejected calls to punish the paper, saying the government cannot censor the press.

Well, this made me laugh. Good on the Danes, and especially the other papers that reprinted them. I don't get whats so special about islam that stops it being a target for critism? Stop winging is all i have to say.

I've aslo been reading the comments posted by some people on the BBC website talking about their opinions. My favourite was one saying how islam was so very peaceful, non confrontational and everyone should respect it, which is fair enough, but the fact it was posted right under the news report detailing riots in palestine that made me shake my head.

Hypocrisy off the starboard bow if you ask me.

I have searched under what i can think of, so i don't think theres another thread around with this, but hey, i've been wrong before.

Cynthetiq · 02-02-2006, 01:03 PM

it's not about critcism it's about depicting Mohammed which is not allowed in their faith since it can be construed as idolatry.

currently some people in the US are mad at AOL for using I AM as part of an advertising campaign because they say that I AM refers to Yahweh.

There's billions of people on the planet, there are billions of lifestyles, opinions and interpretations.

Nothing to see here, really.

highthief · 02-02-2006, 02:48 PM

What gets me is that the Wahhabists in Afghanistan pissed on the worldview of the Buddhists when they destroyed those centuries old statues of Buddha a few years back. A lot of Muslims are getting upset at this "desecration" of the Prophet, yet look the other way at the sacriligeous actions of their own people. The recall of ambassadors etc is ridiculous.

Until the Muslims learn to seperate church and state, we'll keep seeing sill things like the extreme Muslim reaction we are seeing now.

clavus · 02-02-2006, 03:11 PM

The Religion of Peace is full of tribal shitheads who will chop your head off for the slightest insult. But they aren't alone.

Religious fanatics are generally humor-impared. I get shit occasionally for my cartoons involving Jesus. I even got threatened once. Some of my cartoons poke fun a islamic suicide bombers, but I haven't gotten any threats from Muslims yet. (Though I DO see my cartoons linked to Islam discussion boards). I figure it's just a matter of time.

n0nsensical · 02-02-2006, 04:38 PM

It really is ridiculous...tell me again why it's the rest of the world's fault that Islam comes with all this baggage and is followed by a bunch of whackos who oppose freedom of expression.

abaya · 02-02-2006, 04:49 PM

Hold on, folks. I agree that religious fanatics tend to lack a sense of humor, and I thought the reactions to the Danish newspaper were overdone.

However, let's look at principles here. I don't understand why other European newspapers have published the cartoons. Imagine if all those newspapers had caricatures of Jews, all across Europe... gee, would anyone say that if Jews didn't like it, they were just way oversensitive and had no sense of humor? I highly doubt it.

What if an American paper published a cartoon making fun of black people, Latinos, Chinese? It would not happen, or it would be severely looked down upon. How is this situation any different?

It's not a matter of free press, it's a matter of tolerance and not stooping to the level of adolescents passing cartoons around in school. Political cartoons... now, they are often sophisticated enough to give the audience a better understanding of a complex issue. But I fail to see how these cartoons are acceptable journalism in any format, regardless of how overreactive "the Muslims" are being (and gee, what a nice generalization that is, since they are all obviously of one mind?).

clavus · 02-02-2006, 05:22 PM

The cartoons don't mock Muslims as a people. The cartoons are about the Prophet Muhammad, an individual. That is vastly different from having "caricatures of jews." It's more like having a carictures of Moses.

It is nothing like making fun of black people, Latinos or Chinese people.

hunnychile · 02-02-2006, 05:53 PM

Having spent many many wonderful months in Denmark over the last 20 years because my in-laws live there, I must say that The Danes are wonderful, well read, educated open-minded people. They are always on top of world events & try to live their beliefs. I am proud that their newpapers aren't afriad to print the truth even if it offends the various religious beliefs - especially ones that openly teach hate against others. Remember that when the Jews were being persecuted by the Nazis and the occupying troops made all Jews wear yellow Stars of David on their clothes the King of Denmark & his family (not Jewish) started wearing the Stars and everyone in Denmark followed suit and wore them! That takes guts! To start talking censorship to the Danes is pure insanity. They aren't people who fear retalliation for saying what is truthful and fair.

billege · 02-02-2006, 06:15 PM

It appears that so far this discussion is not fully informed of the facts at hand.

To sum:

Quote:

The Danish newspaper, Jyllands-Posten, had asked 40 cartoonists to draw images of the prophet. The purpose, its chief editor said, was "to examine whether people would succumb to self-censorship, as we have seen in other cases when it comes to Muslim issues."

Quote:

Islamic law, based on clerics' interpretation of the Quran and the sayings of the prophet, forbids depictions of the Prophet Muhammad and other major religious figures even positive ones to prevent idolatry

Quote:

Critics say the drawings were particularly insulting because some appeared to ridicule Muhammad. One cartoon showed the prophet wearing a turban shaped as a bomb.

Quote:

France Soir and several other newspapers across Europe reprinted the caricatures this week in a show of support for freedom of expression.

The reaction from a few groups of Muslims has not entirely been what most of us would call reasonable:

Quote:

....with Palestinian gunmen briefly kidnapping a German citizen and protesters in Pakistan chanting "death to France" and "death to Denmark."

Quote:

Palestinian militants surrounded European Union headquarters in Gaza, and gunmen burst into several hotels and apartments in the West Bank in search of foreigners to take hostage. ...a German citizen was briefly kidnapped by gunmen from a hotel in the city of Nablus. Palestinian police freed the German, a teacher, after less than an hour.

Quote:

The outrage Thursday was most tangible in the Palestinian territories, where Norway and Denmark closed diplomatic offices after masked gunmen threatened to kidnap foreigners in Gaza.

Quote:

In Gaza City, a dozen gunmen linked to Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas' defeated Fatah Party surrounded the EU Commission's local office. One of the militants, flanked by two masked men with assault rifles, said the governments of Germany, France, Norway and Denmark must apologize for the cartoons by Thursday evening.

If no apology is issued, the gunmen said they would target citizens of the four countries and shut down media offices, including the French news agency.

"Any citizens of these countries, who are present in Gaza, will put themselves in danger," the gunman said.

Not everyone in the Muslim world is acting in the manner described above. Some are doing exactly what most of us would call reasonable:

Quote:

In Iraq, Islamic leaders urged worshippers to stage demonstrations from Baghdad to the southern city of Basra following weekly prayer services Friday.

Quote:

In the Arab world, a Jordanian newspaper, Shihan, took the bold step Thursday of running some of the drawings, saying it wanted to show its readers how offensive the cartoons were but also urging the world's Muslims to "be reasonable." Its editorial noted that Jyllands-Posten had apologized, "but for some reason, nobody in the Muslim world wants to hear the apology."

This was followed by censorship:

Quote:

Hours later, the Jordanian government threatened legal action against Shihan, and the owners of the weekly said they had fired its chief editor, Jihad al-Momani, and withdrawn the issue from sale.

This guy, did something worthwhile:

Quote:

In one unusual twist, Mahmoud Zahar, a Hamas leader, visited a Gaza church Thursday and promised protection to Christians after Fatah gunmen threatened to target churches as part of their protests. Zahar offered to dispatch gunmen from Hamas' military wing, the Izzedine al Qassam Brigades, to guard the church.

Full Text Here.

The discussion at hand should be focused on the type of reaction to the cartoons and its level of reasonableness.

For my 2 cents:
Verbal protests over an offensive cartoon are appropriate.
Armed violence is not.

hunnychile · 02-02-2006, 06:49 PM

Newspapers don't need guidelines to follow when depicting ANY religions right wing insanity and "excuse" for violence and the proliferation of hatred and war.

Too bad the Muslims can't just protest verbally. Any excuse for violence is their focus now.

abaya · 02-02-2006, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billege

For my 2 cents:
Verbal protests over an offensive cartoon are appropriate.
Armed violence is not.

That's what I was trying to say... the protests in response to the cartoon is extreme, certainly. But I think the cartoons are still offensive. It is not the same as portraying Moses, because there is no prohibition on portraying an image of Moses. The West KNOWS that Muslims take offense at portrayals of Mohammed, and yet Europe went ahead and did this just to "test" tolerance. That is no way to go about encouraging dialogue, and both parties are to blame if you ask me. The paper should not have printed something just to piss a group of people off on purpose (again, what kind of journalism is that?), and the group responding should not resort to these means to make their opposition known.

n0nsensical · 02-02-2006, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaya

That's what I was trying to say... the protests in response to the cartoon is extreme, certainly. But I think the cartoons are still offensive. It is not the same as portraying Moses, because there is no prohibition on portraying an image of Moses. The West KNOWS that Muslims take offense at portrayals of Mohammed, and yet Europe went ahead and did this just to "test" tolerance. That is no way to go about encouraging dialogue, and both parties are to blame if you ask me. The paper should not have printed something just to piss a group of people off on purpose (again, what kind of journalism is that?), and the group responding should not resort to these means to make their opposition known.

In my opinion, it's totally irrelevant that we know they don't like portrayals of Mohammad. Islam doesn't like people eating pigs either; do we stop eating pigs because it offends Muslims? They are the ones with the problem here. It's their religion, not ours, we don't have to follow it, and we don't have to follow its anachronistic rules. That, the suggestion that we do have to follow its rules, is what I find offensive personally. Did the original publisher do it intentionally to piss them off? I don't know, and I don't care either, because it would be perfectly reasonable to print these cartoons without an intention to offend anyone as well.

Ishmal · 02-02-2006, 11:46 PM

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ory?id=1574759

from google news one hour ago...

Quote:

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip Feb 3, 2006 — Outrage over caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad escalated in the Arab and Islamic world Thursday, with Palestinian gunmen briefly kidnapping a German citizen and protesters in Pakistan chanting "death to France" and "death to Denmark."

Palestinian militants surrounded European Union headquarters in Gaza, and gunmen burst into several hotels and apartments in the West Bank in search of foreigners to take hostage.

The protests spread to Indonesia on Friday, with Islamic hardliners barging into a building housing the Danish Embassy and burning the European country's flag. The Indonesian government had earlier condemned the drawings, as did Afghanistan.

In Iraq, Islamic leaders urged worshippers to stage demonstrations following weekly prayer services Friday. Iran summoned the Austrian ambassador, whose country holds the EU presidency.

The issue opened divisions among European Union governments. Austrian Foreign Minister Ursula Plassnik said EU leaders have a responsibility to "clearly condemn" insults to any religion. But French Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy said he preferred "an excess of caricature to an excess of censorship."

Sarkozy joined journalists in rallying around the editorial director of France Soir, who was fired by the newspaper's Egyptian owner. France Soir and several other newspapers across Europe reprinted the caricatures this week in a show of support for freedom of expression.

The cartoons were first published in September in a Danish newspaper, touching off anger among Muslims who knew about it. The issue reignited last week after Saudi Arabia recalled its ambassador to Denmark.

The Danish newspaper, Jyllands-Posten, had asked 40 cartoonists to draw images of the prophet. The purpose, its chief editor said, was "to examine whether people would succumb to self-censorship, as we have seen in other cases when it comes to Muslim issues."

Islamic law, based on clerics' interpretation of the Quran and the sayings of the prophet, forbids depictions of the Prophet Muhammad and other major religious figures even positive ones to prevent idolatry. Shiite Muslim clerics differ in that they allow images of their greatest saint, Ali, the prophet's son-in-law, though not Muhammad.

aKula · 02-03-2006, 12:13 AM

I would find a similar depiction of Christ offensive. Sure some aspects of the protest are extreme in their nature, some are legitimate. It's not directed at an individual, it's directed at a whole religion. Couple this with something the religion forbids and it's even more offensive. The criticism directed at the newspaper by me is not about following the rules of Islam, it's about having some sense when dealing with a sensitive issue. To put it in forum terms: they've just flamebaited a whole religion.

connyosis · 02-03-2006, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aKula

...they've just flamebaited a whole religion.

I agree, but I still think they have the right to do so even though it might not be the smartest thing to do.
I feel the descision to print these cartoons in the first place was retarded, anyone with half a brain would realize the consequences. I do feel though that even if the descision was stupid, they have a right to be stupid.

aKula · 02-03-2006, 12:54 AM

Yes I agree. I also think it's rather unwise that this is being taken out on non related entitities who had no part in printing the cartoon. Also the nature of some of the responses (kidnapping people etc.) are inappropriate.

stevie667 · 02-03-2006, 03:21 AM

Thinking about it further, if someone had just written a letter, then the Danes would have probably said oops, our mistake, we'll be nicer next time. The muslim world pushed the west with violence, and the west pushed back by publishing more cartoons.

jwoody · 02-03-2006, 03:42 AM

I'm going to open a flag shop in Palestine.

*cha-fuckin-ching*

Sgoilear · 02-03-2006, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunnychile

I am proud that their newpapers aren't afriad to print the truth even if it offends the various religious beliefs - especially ones that openly teach hate against others. .

It could be certainly argued that putting the Prophet and depicting him and therefore all Muslims as suicide bombers is openly teaching hate. That's not my view though. My view is that that cartoon does propagate sterotypes and false information about Muslims as a whole. With freedom of speech comes the responsibility to at least educate yourself on the matter you wish to speak about.

Drawing a comparison to Moses is not the best choice as Moses, while important to the Christian faith, is not a central figure. Instead imagine the way Christians would be reacting if Jesus Christ had been depicted as a suicide bomber. As billage has posted some of the Muslim community is seeking reasonable action. Others are too busy being angry to even see the apology and instead resort to violence. It's a shame that the violence receives more press then the reactions emphasizing the need for peaceful protest. Since the press is highlighting the acts of violence in the name of news it enables a small vocal minority to speak for a large mass of people.

Edited because I can't spell.

highthief · 02-03-2006, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n0nsensical

In my opinion, it's totally irrelevant that we know they don't like portrayals of Mohammad. Islam doesn't like people eating pigs either; do we stop eating pigs because it offends Muslims? They are the ones with the problem here. It's their religion, not ours, we don't have to follow it, and we don't have to follow its anachronistic rules. That, the suggestion that we do have to follow its rules, is what I find offensive personally. Did the original publisher do it intentionally to piss them off? I don't know, and I don't care either, because it would be perfectly reasonable to print these cartoons without an intention to offend anyone as well.

Bingo. Well said.

Astrocloud · 02-03-2006, 05:19 AM

Here's one that should've been printed:

stevie667 · 02-03-2006, 06:02 AM

LMAO!

Thats pretty damned funny.

Ustwo · 02-03-2006, 06:52 AM

This is something I rarely do, but I must give the European press some kodus to sticking up to the 'religion of peace'.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4669360.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4670370.stm

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull

And this is what we fight....

Quote:

Kill those who insult the Prophet Muhammad (saw)

The kuffar in their sustained crusade against Islam and Muslims have yet again displayed their hatred towards us this time by attacking the honour of our beloved Messenger Muhammad (saw). In September 2005 the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten published 10 cartoons depicting the prophet Muhammad (saw) which were later republished by a Norwegian paper Magazinet. Until now both governments have refused to denounce the drawings and to condemn the publication of them.

Denmark has a history of blasphemy against Islam, only in August did radio presenter Kaj Wilhelmsen say that all fanatical Muslims should be exterminated and the rest should be kicked out of Europe. Last year the queen of Denmark aired her disapproval of Islam and for those ‘whom religion is their entire life’. Prior to this the Danish government issued the right to dismiss a Muslim woman from working in a supermarket for wearing the hijab. Furthermore Denmark is an ally of the war in Iraq with 500 troops stationed in the South and 10 from Norway showing their approval and participation of the war.

Both governments claim that one of their underlying principles is the freedom of speech and that everyone is free to speak their mind and to voice their opinions openly. They claim that the publication of these cartoons is a mere expression of ones opinions falling within the framework of the law. This is the same freedom of expression that quite readily prevents the propagation of Islam and support of the mujahideen using it as and when it suits them.

This should come as no surprise to the Muslims because this is the exact and true nature of the kuffar that Allah (swt) has informed us of in the Quran. The kuffar will never have respect for our deen, they will never honour it and will always seek to ridicule and disparage it. At every opportunity they will try to attack and belittle it whilst concealing the greater hatred they have for it in their hearts. This is also evident throughout the history of Islam where the kuffar carried out similar acts to try and defame Islam. Allah (swt) tells us that; verily, the Kaafireen [disbelievers] are ever unto you your open enemies. [4:101]

At the time of the Messenger Muhammad (saw) there were individuals like these who dishonoured and insulted him upon whom the Islamic judgement was executed. Such people were not tolerated in the past and throughout the history of Islam were dealt with according to the Shariah. Ka’ab ibn Ashraf was assassinated by Muhammad ibn Maslamah for harming the Messenger Muhammad (saw) by his words, Abu Raafi’ was killed by Abu Ateeq as the Messenger ordered in the most evil of ways for swearing at the prophet, Khalid bin Sufyaan was killed by Abdullah bin Anees who cut off his head and brought it to the prophet for harming the Messenger Muhammad (saw) by his insults, Al-Asmaa bintu Marwaan was killed by Umayr bin Adi’ al-Khatmi, a blind man, for writing poetry against the prophet and insulting him in it, Al-Aswad al-Ansi was killed by Fairuz al-Daylami and his family for insulting the Messenger Muhammad (saw) and claiming to be a prophet himself. This is the judgement of Islam upon those who violate, dishonour and insult the Messenger Muhammad (saw).

Shortly after these incidents the people began to realise that insulting the Messenger of Allah (saw) was not something to be taken lightly and that by doing so would mean that you would be killed for it, a concept that many have seem to forgotten today.

The insulting of the Messenger Muhammad (saw) is something that the Muslims cannot and will not tolerate and the punishment in Islam for the one who does so is death. This is the sunnah of the prophet and the verdict of Islam upon such people, one that any Muslim is able execute. The response of the Muslims all over the world shows us the inability to deal with such people, the kuffar are attacking our Messenger and are allowed to get away with it whilst the Muslims have no power to do anything about it. The leaders of the Muslim world have no care for the deen of Islam as they are busy cementing their seats content with their power and wealth. Where are the Muhammad ibn Maslamah’s of our ummah who will defend the honour of our beloved Messenger and rise the banner of Tawheed high?

But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and attack your religion with disapproval and criticism then fight (you) the leaders of disbelief - for surely their oaths are nothing to them - so that they may stop (evil actions). [9:12

http://www.alghurabaa.co.uk/articles/new/cartoon.htm

billege · 02-03-2006, 08:45 AM

I've read some of the comments mentioning that images of Christ in a manner such as Mohammed was depicted would also be offensive.

That's interesting, as it helps make a point. We're not so much discussing that the images are offensive or not, but rather let's assume they are. The interesting thing is the Muslim's reaction to the image. Those that aren't arming themselves and screaming "death to country XXXX" are having big protests. It's interesting to me that they seem to have such reactions.

I'd like to touch on the idea that images of other religous figures would be as offensive to Christians or other religions.

I present the Buddy Christ.

The Buddy Christ Statue.

The Body of Christ, now with chocolate sprinkles.

A poke using the birth of Christ.

While not a religious leader
the US President.

Some charming cartoons in
Arab media.

If you spend some time doing a GIS for images of world religions in the media you'll find that there's no shortage of them. There's also no shortage of cartoons that are "offensive" to those depicted in them. Especially when including world leaders, or countries. In fact, the US is depicted quite horribley on a very regular basis in Arab media. I have yet to try shutting down and embassy in reaction...

Christ is a pretty popular figure in cartoons, both political and non, and has also featured regularly in a few TV shows as of late. I seem to remember Dennis Leary talking to Christ in his show. Christ certainly gets around.

I mean to show that on a daily basis the religious figures of the world are depicted in ways ranging from revered to rediculous. Yet, most of the worlds population is not beside itself with indignation, taking hostages, and firing AK-47's in the air. Last time I checked, there was no Catholic protest marches, nor hostage taking when "Dogma" and its "Buddy Christ" debuted. Nor was there "death to xxxxx" calls when during the Catholic sex abuse scandel's height had "offensive" cartoons in the US and EU papers on a weekly (if not daily) basis.

At the very least, the Muslim community seems to have unrealistic expectations of how others should conduct themselves in reference to Islam.

They're certainly not impressing me any.

Cynthetiq · 02-03-2006, 08:55 AM

Catholic League seems to be quite active in complaining about religious depections:

South Park

Book of Daniel

Senator Diane Feinstein

groups will complain, just happens to be how much actual press someone gets, those heroin puppies made it all over the news around the world.

highthief · 02-03-2006, 09:19 AM

No problem with people complaining or protesting - that is their right, as it is the right of newspapers to print material that may be offensive to some.

But when you start suggesting people should have their heads cut off, as many are doing in the Muslim world, or storming embassies, that's well over the line.

Charlatan · 02-03-2006, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highthief

No problem with people complaining or protesting - that is their right, as it is the right of newspapers to print material that may be offensive to some.

But when you start suggesting people should have their heads cut off, as many are doing in the Muslim world, or storming embassies, that's well over the line.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

highthief · 02-03-2006, 10:16 AM

And now the US State Department is condemning the European papers for publishing the cartoons.

I'm so confused...

Ustwo · 02-03-2006, 11:00 AM

England isn't quite so merry these days.

stevie667 · 02-03-2006, 11:04 AM

Thats england?

Those are the people we're always complaining the government should kick out, ******rs.

alpha phi · 02-03-2006, 11:10 AM

And here I thought the outrage over the
washington post cartoon was ridiculous
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=100599

Now this?......this is just plain pathetic

raeanna74 · 02-03-2006, 11:32 AM

Coming from a Christian perspective. Christians were quite inflamed when an 'artist' put a cross (I forget if it had a figure of Christ ON the cross of if it was just a cross.) and placed in a beaker of piss. An art museum even displayed the 'creation'. Christians protested against it being considered art. YET I don't recall ONE Christian marchin on the museum with guns and a show of force.

As for comparing a depiction of Christ as a suicide bomber it is an inaccurant comparison to Muhammed depicted as a suicide bomber.
Name for me ONE Christian who blew themselves up in a public place in the name of Christ??
Ok, now name for me ONE (or multiple) muslims who blew themselves up in a public place in the name of Muhammed?? or their God??

The cartoons could have been somewhat tasteless but I've seen cartoons in our country that knock Conservatives, Christianity, Creationism, etc and NO ONE reacts like dumbass militants.

If Islam is a peaceful religion then PROVE it. By reacting to criticism and mocking with honest open communication and criticism of their own. They're just showing themselves to be just what the cartoon depicted. I guess it was accurate?

AngelicVampire · 02-03-2006, 11:39 AM

And for some reason Islamic people are surprised when others consider them a religion of hate? Europe is the cancer, Islam is the answer... Exterminate those who slander Islam... Now I am not saying that Christianity, Buddhism etc are the religions of tolerance but wtf!

To make a complaint, fine. To stage a protest, ok a little extreme imo however its still peaceful. To blockade countries, attempt to storm embassies and threaten violence... quite frankly its this sort of thing that makes people turn round and say "why not just nuke the middle east" (heard it at least twice today in relation to this topic).

While we cannot hold all members of a religion to bear for what some members do the leadership of this religion should at least be attempting to douse the flames rather than throwing on fuel, we live in a global world, if you want to play hardball there are many others willing to play. Islam cannot reasonably expect others to follow its teachings, all it can do is hold itself "above" the rest of us and show us the way... if we are to follow what Islam is teaching us right now I think the world is going to be a very messy and unhappy place shortly.

Further proof that Christianity gets mocked fairly regularly:

GIS for "Jesus Lol"

trickyy · 02-03-2006, 11:44 AM

so what are the specifications of this cartoon ban? if i draw a car with a nametag that says "mohammed," is that wrong? how about a dotted line that represents mohammed? no good?

as far as breaking the laws of religion...christ is often joked about, which has been mentioned. as for fundamental religious rules, there are the ten commandments in judeo-christian faith. secular media doesn't go out of their way to adhere to these rules, but luckily no one is getting shot (usually).

i wish the level of tolerance and forbearance in the many corners of the arab world had developed faster than their ability to obtain automatic weapons.

Astrocloud · 02-03-2006, 11:54 AM

It's time for a Holy War.

clavus · 02-03-2006, 12:19 PM

I saw this on FARK today. Draw your own conclusions (and draw your own cartoons!)
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

* Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt. No Muslim outrage.
* A Muslim attacks a missionary children's school in India. Kills six. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage.
* Let's go way back. Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons. No Muslim outrage
* Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No Muslim outrage.
* Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed. Muslims are outraged.

Charlatan · 02-03-2006, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clavus

I saw this on FARK today. Draw your own conclusions (and draw your own cartoons!)
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

* Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt. No Muslim outrage.
* A Muslim attacks a missionary children's school in India. Kills six. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage.
* Let's go way back. Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons. No Muslim outrage
* Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No Muslim outrage.
* Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed. Muslims are outraged.

That's a rather simplistic list. You leave out the part where Western forces bomb and kill Mulims in (at least) the tens of thousands, and few in the west are outraged.

I am not defending the Muslims actions here, I am just pointing out that inflammatory lists, like this, that take a myopic approach to a complex situation, don't help.

Cynthetiq · 02-03-2006, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highthief

No problem with people complaining or protesting - that is their right, as it is the right of newspapers to print material that may be offensive to some.

But when you start suggesting people should have their heads cut off, as many are doing in the Muslim world, or storming embassies, that's well over the line.

that's their right to SAY they want to, just like it's the right to complain. It's however not acceptable to ACT on it.

billege · 02-03-2006, 12:42 PM

Here's a link to one of the cartoons, which frankly, are annoyingly hard to find.

Muhammed with a bomb/turban.

I'm personally dissapointed in the Muslim community for behavior like:

Quote:

Up to 300 hardline Islamic activists in Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim country, went on a rampage in the lobby of a building housing the Danish embassy in Jakarta. Shouting "Allahu Akbar" (God is Greatest), they smashed lamps with bamboo sticks, threw chairs, lobbed rotten eggs and tomatoes and tore up a Danish flag. No one was hurt.

In the West Bank city of Ramallah, hundreds of Palestinians attended a Hamas-organized rally, tearing up a French flag and holding up banners reading: "The assault on the Prophet is an assault on Islam".

I really enjoy how this guy takes the disagreement worldwide.

Quote:

Indonesian Foreign Ministry spokesman Yuri Thamrin said the dispute was not just between Jakarta and Copenhagen. "It involves the whole Islamic world vis-a-vis Denmark and vis-a-vis the trend of Islamophobia," he said.

Right. Sure. Whatever buddy. Your people's actions are really endearing.

This is cute too:

Quote:

CNN has chosen to not show the cartoons out of respect for Islam.

It's okay to rebroadcast the living hell out of anything video/voice attributed to that sick Bin Laden fellow, but there will be no disrepecting Islam.

Arab media, especially papers, can regularly villify any Western leader they want, use any symbols they want, but other soverign nations who DO respect free press, can't do anything that offends the Muslims. God forbid we offend the Muslims.

You run into some free speach that offends you, good for you. You feel so offended you feel like writing a letter, organizing a letter writing campaign, blogging about it, organizing a boycott, or even getting yourself on TV to deliver your free speech opinion, and I'm all for you doing that. This whole eagerness to declare "die evil non-muslims" and break things is rediculous.

Remember kids:
It's cool to disrespect national leaders, other religions, but not the bomb throwing, flag torching, effigy lighting, peaceful people of Islam.

Link to the cartoons.

Charlatan · 02-03-2006, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

that's their right to SAY they want to, just like it's the right to complain. It's however not acceptable to ACT on it.

But when saying it, encourages or emboldens others to act, it is wrong. In my opinion it shouldn't be allowed. It is for this reason that hate laws exist.

02-02-2006, 01:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	it's not about critcism it's about depicting Mohammed which is not allowed in their faith since it can be construed as idolatry. currently some people in the US are mad at AOL for using I AM as part of an advertising campaign because they say that I AM refers to Yahweh. There's billions of people on the planet, there are billions of lifestyles, opinions and interpretations. Nothing to see here, really. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

02-02-2006, 02:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	What gets me is that the Wahhabists in Afghanistan pissed on the worldview of the Buddhists when they destroyed those centuries old statues of Buddha a few years back. A lot of Muslims are getting upset at this "desecration" of the Prophet, yet look the other way at the sacriligeous actions of their own people. The recall of ambassadors etc is ridiculous. Until the Muslims learn to seperate church and state, we'll keep seeing sill things like the extreme Muslim reaction we are seeing now. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

02-02-2006, 03:11 PM	#4 (permalink)
clavus pow! Location: NorCal	The Religion of Peace is full of tribal shitheads who will chop your head off for the slightest insult. But they aren't alone. Religious fanatics are generally humor-impared. I get shit occasionally for my cartoons involving Jesus. I even got threatened once. Some of my cartoons poke fun a islamic suicide bombers, but I haven't gotten any threats from Muslims yet. (Though I DO see my cartoons linked to Islam discussion boards). I figure it's just a matter of time. __________________ Ass, gas or grass. Nobody rides for free.

02-02-2006, 04:38 PM	#5 (permalink)
n0nsensical Junkie Location: San Francisco	It really is ridiculous...tell me again why it's the rest of the world's fault that Islam comes with all this baggage and is followed by a bunch of whackos who oppose freedom of expression. __________________ "Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." --Abraham Lincoln Last edited by n0nsensical; 02-11-2006 at 12:17 AM.. Reason: add sig

02-02-2006, 04:49 PM	#6 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	Hold on, folks. I agree that religious fanatics tend to lack a sense of humor, and I thought the reactions to the Danish newspaper were overdone. However, let's look at principles here. I don't understand why other European newspapers have published the cartoons. Imagine if all those newspapers had caricatures of Jews, all across Europe... gee, would anyone say that if Jews didn't like it, they were just way oversensitive and had no sense of humor? I highly doubt it. What if an American paper published a cartoon making fun of black people, Latinos, Chinese? It would not happen, or it would be severely looked down upon. How is this situation any different? It's not a matter of free press, it's a matter of tolerance and not stooping to the level of adolescents passing cartoons around in school. Political cartoons... now, they are often sophisticated enough to give the audience a better understanding of a complex issue. But I fail to see how these cartoons are acceptable journalism in any format, regardless of how overreactive "the Muslims" are being (and gee, what a nice generalization that is, since they are all obviously of one mind?). __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran

02-02-2006, 05:22 PM	#7 (permalink)
clavus pow! Location: NorCal	The cartoons don't mock Muslims as a people. The cartoons are about the Prophet Muhammad, an individual. That is vastly different from having "caricatures of jews." It's more like having a carictures of Moses. It is nothing like making fun of black people, Latinos or Chinese people. __________________ Ass, gas or grass. Nobody rides for free.

02-02-2006, 05:53 PM	#8 (permalink)
hunnychile Alien Anthropologist Location: Between Boredom and Nirvana	Having spent many many wonderful months in Denmark over the last 20 years because my in-laws live there, I must say that The Danes are wonderful, well read, educated open-minded people. They are always on top of world events & try to live their beliefs. I am proud that their newpapers aren't afriad to print the truth even if it offends the various religious beliefs - especially ones that openly teach hate against others. Remember that when the Jews were being persecuted by the Nazis and the occupying troops made all Jews wear yellow Stars of David on their clothes the King of Denmark & his family (not Jewish) started wearing the Stars and everyone in Denmark followed suit and wore them! That takes guts! To start talking censorship to the Danes is pure insanity. They aren't people who fear retalliation for saying what is truthful and fair. __________________ "I need compassion, understanding and chocolate." - NJB Last edited by hunnychile; 02-02-2006 at 06:02 PM..

02-02-2006, 06:49 PM	#10 (permalink)
hunnychile Alien Anthropologist Location: Between Boredom and Nirvana	Newspapers don't need guidelines to follow when depicting ANY religions right wing insanity and "excuse" for violence and the proliferation of hatred and war. Too bad the Muslims can't just protest verbally. Any excuse for violence is their focus now. __________________ "I need compassion, understanding and chocolate." - NJB

02-03-2006, 12:13 AM	#14 (permalink)
aKula Psycho	I would find a similar depiction of Christ offensive. Sure some aspects of the protest are extreme in their nature, some are legitimate. It's not directed at an individual, it's directed at a whole religion. Couple this with something the religion forbids and it's even more offensive. The criticism directed at the newspaper by me is not about following the rules of Islam, it's about having some sense when dealing with a sensitive issue. To put it in forum terms: they've just flamebaited a whole religion. __________________ "I am the wrath of God. The earth I pass will see me and tremble." -Klaus Kinski as Don Lope de Aguirre

02-03-2006, 12:54 AM	#16 (permalink)
aKula Psycho	Yes I agree. I also think it's rather unwise that this is being taken out on non related entitities who had no part in printing the cartoon. Also the nature of some of the responses (kidnapping people etc.) are inappropriate. __________________ "I am the wrath of God. The earth I pass will see me and tremble." -Klaus Kinski as Don Lope de Aguirre

02-03-2006, 03:21 AM	#17 (permalink)
stevie667 Too Awesome for Aardvarks Location: Angloland	Thinking about it further, if someone had just written a letter, then the Danes would have probably said oops, our mistake, we'll be nicer next time. The muslim world pushed the west with violence, and the west pushed back by publishing more cartoons. __________________ Office hours have changed. Please call during office hours for more information.

02-03-2006, 03:42 AM	#18 (permalink)
jwoody Shackle Me Not Location: Newcastle - England.	I'm going to open a flag shop in Palestine. cha-fuckin-ching __________________ .

02-03-2006, 05:19 AM	#21 (permalink)
Astrocloud Apocalypse Nerd	Here's one that should've been printed:

02-03-2006, 06:02 AM	#22 (permalink)
stevie667 Too Awesome for Aardvarks Location: Angloland	LMAO! Thats pretty damned funny. __________________ Office hours have changed. Please call during office hours for more information.

02-03-2006, 08:45 AM	#24 (permalink)
billege Watcher Location: Ohio	I've read some of the comments mentioning that images of Christ in a manner such as Mohammed was depicted would also be offensive. That's interesting, as it helps make a point. We're not so much discussing that the images are offensive or not, but rather let's assume they are. The interesting thing is the Muslim's reaction to the image. Those that aren't arming themselves and screaming "death to country XXXX" are having big protests. It's interesting to me that they seem to have such reactions. I'd like to touch on the idea that images of other religous figures would be as offensive to Christians or other religions. I present the Buddy Christ. The Buddy Christ Statue. The Body of Christ, now with chocolate sprinkles. A poke using the birth of Christ. While not a religious leader the US President. Some charming cartoons in Arab media. If you spend some time doing a GIS for images of world religions in the media you'll find that there's no shortage of them. There's also no shortage of cartoons that are "offensive" to those depicted in them. Especially when including world leaders, or countries. In fact, the US is depicted quite horribley on a very regular basis in Arab media. I have yet to try shutting down and embassy in reaction... Christ is a pretty popular figure in cartoons, both political and non, and has also featured regularly in a few TV shows as of late. I seem to remember Dennis Leary talking to Christ in his show. Christ certainly gets around. I mean to show that on a daily basis the religious figures of the world are depicted in ways ranging from revered to rediculous. Yet, most of the worlds population is not beside itself with indignation, taking hostages, and firing AK-47's in the air. Last time I checked, there was no Catholic protest marches, nor hostage taking when "Dogma" and its "Buddy Christ" debuted. Nor was there "death to xxxxx" calls when during the Catholic sex abuse scandel's height had "offensive" cartoons in the US and EU papers on a weekly (if not daily) basis. At the very least, the Muslim community seems to have unrealistic expectations of how others should conduct themselves in reference to Islam. They're certainly not impressing me any. __________________ I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence: "My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

02-03-2006, 08:55 AM	#25 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	Catholic League seems to be quite active in complaining about religious depections: South Park Book of Daniel Senator Diane Feinstein groups will complain, just happens to be how much actual press someone gets, those heroin puppies made it all over the news around the world. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

02-03-2006, 09:19 AM	#26 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	No problem with people complaining or protesting - that is their right, as it is the right of newspapers to print material that may be offensive to some. But when you start suggesting people should have their heads cut off, as many are doing in the Muslim world, or storming embassies, that's well over the line. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

02-03-2006, 10:16 AM	#28 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	And now the US State Department is condemning the European papers for publishing the cartoons. I'm so confused... __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

02-03-2006, 11:00 AM	#29 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	England isn't quite so merry these days. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. Last edited by Ustwo; 02-03-2006 at 11:03 AM..

02-03-2006, 11:04 AM	#30 (permalink)
stevie667 Too Awesome for Aardvarks Location: Angloland	Thats england? Those are the people we're always complaining the government should kick out, ******rs. __________________ Office hours have changed. Please call during office hours for more information.

02-03-2006, 11:10 AM	#31 (permalink)
alpha phi seeker Location: home	And here I thought the outrage over the washington post cartoon was ridiculous http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=100599 Now this?......this is just plain pathetic __________________ All ideas in this communication are sole property of the voices in my head. (C) 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 "The Voices" (TM). All rights reserved.

02-03-2006, 11:32 AM	#32 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	Coming from a Christian perspective. Christians were quite inflamed when an 'artist' put a cross (I forget if it had a figure of Christ ON the cross of if it was just a cross.) and placed in a beaker of piss. An art museum even displayed the 'creation'. Christians protested against it being considered art. YET I don't recall ONE Christian marchin on the museum with guns and a show of force. As for comparing a depiction of Christ as a suicide bomber it is an inaccurant comparison to Muhammed depicted as a suicide bomber. Name for me ONE Christian who blew themselves up in a public place in the name of Christ?? Ok, now name for me ONE (or multiple) muslims who blew themselves up in a public place in the name of Muhammed?? or their God?? The cartoons could have been somewhat tasteless but I've seen cartoons in our country that knock Conservatives, Christianity, Creationism, etc and NO ONE reacts like dumbass militants. If Islam is a peaceful religion then PROVE it. By reacting to criticism and mocking with honest open communication and criticism of their own. They're just showing themselves to be just what the cartoon depicted. I guess it was accurate? __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

02-03-2006, 11:39 AM	#33 (permalink)
AngelicVampire Insane	And for some reason Islamic people are surprised when others consider them a religion of hate? Europe is the cancer, Islam is the answer... Exterminate those who slander Islam... Now I am not saying that Christianity, Buddhism etc are the religions of tolerance but wtf! To make a complaint, fine. To stage a protest, ok a little extreme imo however its still peaceful. To blockade countries, attempt to storm embassies and threaten violence... quite frankly its this sort of thing that makes people turn round and say "why not just nuke the middle east" (heard it at least twice today in relation to this topic). While we cannot hold all members of a religion to bear for what some members do the leadership of this religion should at least be attempting to douse the flames rather than throwing on fuel, we live in a global world, if you want to play hardball there are many others willing to play. Islam cannot reasonably expect others to follow its teachings, all it can do is hold itself "above" the rest of us and show us the way... if we are to follow what Islam is teaching us right now I think the world is going to be a very messy and unhappy place shortly. Further proof that Christianity gets mocked fairly regularly: GIS for "Jesus Lol" Last edited by AngelicVampire; 02-03-2006 at 11:41 AM.. Reason: Added link

02-03-2006, 11:44 AM	#34 (permalink)
trickyy ►	so what are the specifications of this cartoon ban? if i draw a car with a nametag that says "mohammed," is that wrong? how about a dotted line that represents mohammed? no good? as far as breaking the laws of religion...christ is often joked about, which has been mentioned. as for fundamental religious rules, there are the ten commandments in judeo-christian faith. secular media doesn't go out of their way to adhere to these rules, but luckily no one is getting shot (usually). i wish the level of tolerance and forbearance in the many corners of the arab world had developed faster than their ability to obtain automatic weapons.

02-03-2006, 11:54 AM	#35 (permalink)
Astrocloud Apocalypse Nerd	It's time for a Holy War.

02-03-2006, 12:19 PM	#36 (permalink)
clavus pow! Location: NorCal	I saw this on FARK today. Draw your own conclusions (and draw your own cartoons!) ````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` * Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage. * Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim outrage. * Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No Muslim outrage. * Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No Muslim outrage. * Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt. No Muslim outrage. * A Muslim attacks a missionary children's school in India. Kills six. No Muslim outrage. * Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage. * Let's go way back. Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No Muslim outrage. * Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No Muslim outrage. * Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured. No Muslim outrage. * Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No Muslim outrage. * Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No Muslim outrage. * Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons. No Muslim outrage * Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world. No Muslim outrage. * Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No Muslim outrage. * Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed. Muslims are outraged. __________________ Ass, gas or grass. Nobody rides for free.