space debris: not a problem - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

vermin · 01-20-2006, 06:29 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/0....ap/index.html

Quote:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- More than 9,000 pieces of space debris are orbiting the Earth, a hazard that can only be expected to get worse in the next few years, according to NASA scientists. And currently there's no workable and economic way to clean up the mess.

The pieces of space junk measuring 4 inches or more total some 5,500 tons, according to a report by J.C. Liou and N. L. Johnson in Friday's issue of the journal Science.

Even if space launches were halted now -- which will not happen -- the collection of debris would continue growing as items already in orbit collide with one another and break into more pieces, Liou said in a telephone interview.

"On the other hand, we are not claiming the sky is falling," he said, "We just need to understand what the risks are."

The most debris-crowded area is between 550 miles and 625 miles above the Earth, Liou said, meaning the risk is less for manned flights. The international space station operates at about 250 miles altitude and space shuttle flights tend to range between 250 miles and 375 miles, he said.

But the growing collection of junk can pose a risk to commercial and research flights and other space activities.

Much of the debris results from explosions of satellites, especially old upper stages left in orbit with leftover fuel and high pressure fluids.

A 2004 NASA report identified Russia as the source of the largest number of debris items, closely followed by the United States. Other sources were France, China, India, Japan and the European Space Agency.

Even without any launches adding to the junkpile, the creation of new debris from collisions of material already there will exceed the amount of material removed as orbits decay and items fall back to Earth, the researchers estimated.

Only removal of existing large objects from orbit "can prevent future problems for research in and commercialization of space," they wrote.

"As of now there is no viable solution, technically and economically, to remove objects from space," Liou said. He said he hopes the report will encourage researchers to think about better ways to do this.

Tethers to slow down orbiting materials and cause them to fall back to Earth sooner could work, but attaching them to the space junk would be excessively expensive for the benefit gained, the researchers said.

Newly launched satellites and boosters could include engines that would direct them back to Earth, but that would require costly and complex power and control systems.

And use of ground-based lasers to disturb the orbits of satellites isn't practical because of the mass of the satellites and the amount of energy that would be needed.

"The bottom line is very simple." Liou said. "Although the risk is small, we need to pay attention to this environmental problem.."

"And use of ground-based lasers to disturb the orbits of satellites isn't practical because of the mass of the satellites and the amount of energy that would be needed." - no longer true.

The parent company (in Australia) of the company I work for has successfully moved space debris around with a ground based laser. Using an ablative laser they can move space objects along six axes and/or rotate it at will, much like a tractor beam (according to our CEO and chief genius, Dr. Ben Green). This project is being pursued with assistance from the U.S. Air Force, and it is not classified. Once again the media seems to like to produce fear instead of doing research.

Zeraph · 01-20-2006, 06:55 PM

That's really cool (what you said, not the fear mongering.)

Willravel · 01-20-2006, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vermin

...snip

"And use of ground-based lasers to disturb the orbits of satellites isn't practical because of the mass of the satellites and the amount of energy that would be needed." - no longer true.

The parent company (in Australia) of the company I work for has successfully moved space debris around with a ground based laser. Using an ablative laser they can move space objects along six axes and/or rotate it at will, much like a tractor beam (according to our CEO and chief genius, Dr. Ben Green). This project is being pursued with assistance from the U.S. Air Force, and it is not classified. Once again the media seems to like to produce fear instead of doing research.

IT'S NOT CLASSIFIED? I've never been so happy to hear that! My worry is, of course, that we use the grouynd based laser system for offensive purpouses (a.k.a. not so ground based planes with the laser). Is any of this technology based on Tesla's work? I've always wondered if his theories were sound.

Great news.

ASU2003 · 01-21-2006, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnn

The most debris-crowded area is between 550 miles and 625 miles above the Earth, Liou said, meaning the risk is less for manned flights. The international space station operates at about 250 miles altitude and space shuttle flights tend to range between 250 miles and 375 miles, he said.

Wouldn't this be a problem? All objects that aren't in geosynchronous orbit all fall back down to Earth and eventually burns up in the atmosphere. I'm not sure how long it would take for the little gravity there is at 600 miles up to pull stuff back to Earth, but it will pass through the human inhabited layer at some point.

I would think that it could be possible to target debris close to the space station, and use the laser to move it away. I'm sure there would be some big power requirement however.

Shields up, captain…

blahblah454 · 01-21-2006, 10:50 AM

I am sick of companies saying that it is too expensive to be practical to clean up their mess. They should be more responsible and take action no matter what the costs. Kinda the factories that used to just accept the fines instead of installing scrubbers on their stacks because the fines were cheaper.

Vermin, that is really cool what your company is doing and I also hope that it remains civillian and they are not researching the technology to become military.

Stiltzkin · 01-21-2006, 12:10 PM

There is an anime about exactly this called "Planetes".
There's a space station that has many sections that conduct business in outer space, and the lowliest section is the Debris Section, which is in charge of collecting space debris that's floating around in orbit. I just think it's interesting that this anime deals with a real issue, although in a sci-fi-ish (at least right now) sort of way.

grumpyolddude · 01-21-2006, 06:27 PM

Hey, Vermin! When the "killer" meteor gets in range, you guys can just nudge it off track! Thanks!

sailor · 01-22-2006, 02:31 AM

Vermin, what I'm wondering is if that laser thing is practical to use often. Several other such prototypes have been successfully made and tested, but they cost so much to make and run, and use so much electricity, that it just wasn't anything resembling cost effective.

Of course, if that thing works and does it at an acceptable cost, that's really damn cool...

01-21-2006, 06:27 PM	#7 (permalink)
grumpyolddude Deliberately unfocused Location: Amazon.com and CDBaby	Hey, Vermin! When the "killer" meteor gets in range, you guys can just nudge it off track! Thanks! __________________ "Regret can be a harder pill to swallow than failure .With failure you at least know you gave it a chance..." David Howard

01-22-2006, 02:31 AM	#8 (permalink)
sailor beauty in the breakdown Location: Chapel Hill, NC	Vermin, what I'm wondering is if that laser thing is practical to use often. Several other such prototypes have been successfully made and tested, but they cost so much to make and run, and use so much electricity, that it just wasn't anything resembling cost effective. Of course, if that thing works and does it at an acceptable cost, that's really damn cool... __________________ "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." --Plato

01-20-2006, 06:55 PM	#2 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	That's really cool (what you said, not the fear mongering.)

01-21-2006, 10:50 AM	#5 (permalink)
blahblah454 Let's put a smile on that face Location: On the road...	I am sick of companies saying that it is too expensive to be practical to clean up their mess. They should be more responsible and take action no matter what the costs. Kinda the factories that used to just accept the fines instead of installing scrubbers on their stacks because the fines were cheaper. Vermin, that is really cool what your company is doing and I also hope that it remains civillian and they are not researching the technology to become military.

01-21-2006, 12:10 PM	#6 (permalink)
Stiltzkin Junkie	There is an anime about exactly this called "Planetes". There's a space station that has many sections that conduct business in outer space, and the lowliest section is the Debris Section, which is in charge of collecting space debris that's floating around in orbit. I just think it's interesting that this anime deals with a real issue, although in a sci-fi-ish (at least right now) sort of way.