Neda: The Iranian protests personified (WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT) - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Martian · 06-22-2009, 07:59 AM

Warning: The following video contains graphic content. Not for work or the faint of heart.

This footage portrays the apparent death of a young woman in Iran, known only as 'Neda.' According to reports, Neda was participating in a protest march when she was shot by Basij militia members.

This is a graphic and compelling demonstration of the gravity of the situation in Iran. This is not a case of a violent protest going wrong, or even of simple lawlessness. This woman did nothing more sinister than walk in the road, and for that she died.

I have no further words. I feel the video speaks well enough for itself.

Crack · 06-22-2009, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

I have no further words. I feel the video speaks well enough for itself.

Martian · 06-22-2009, 04:17 PM

For those who are unable or unwilling to watch:

The video consists of two clips.

The first clip starts as the person recording runs toward Neda. She's seeing being lowered to the ground, and appears initially conscious. As the camera comes up on her right side her eyes can be seen to roll back in her head, and then blood begins to stream from her nose and mouth. A man is heard saying, then screaming her name with increasing desperation.

The second video is shorter, and the operator appears to be hiding what I can only assume is a cell phone camera with his thumb for the first moments. As he approaches Neda he uncovers the camera, and we see her lying on the ground in a pool of her own blood. The camera moves up to get a close up of her face. One eye is visible and is staring blankly; it's apparent at this point that if the life has not already left her body it will do so imminently. Her other eye is obscured by blood, which is also streaming over her cheeks and chin.

I won't blame anyone for not wanting to watch this, but I urge anyone who thinks they can manage it to do so. It will very probably make you uncomfortable; I know it does so for me. It's also very compelling and very important. This is what's happening. It's not a newspaper article or a blog entry or a twitter feed. It's Neda, who had the courage to stand up and speak out for her freedoms, and who paid for it with her life.

biznatch · 06-22-2009, 08:20 PM

I watched this earlier today, after hearing about it. Footage of the horrors currently happening in Iran is rare, and this just absolutely shocked me. Not because of blood, but because I was witnessing a person's painful, unfair death...And the suffering of everyone around her.

Martian · 06-22-2009, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biznatch

I watched this earlier today, after hearing about it. Footage of the horrors currently happening in Iran is rare, and this just absolutely shocked me. Not because of blood, but because I was witnessing a person's painful, unfair death...And the suffering of everyone around her.

This is precisely why I feel this is so important.

This video hit me so hard because it illustrates how dire the plight of the Iranian reformists is in a way that no article, blog posting or interview can. This is real and immediate. It's undeniable, and it refuses to be marginalized or dismissed. Therein lies it's power.

Charlatan · 06-22-2009, 11:39 PM

I have been watching this and, as I said elsewhere today, "Watching video of Neda I feel like a voyeur of an intimate scene. I realize this might help the cause but it still smells of exploitation."

This article about Neda with interviews of her friends and family adds more context: Family, friends mourn 'Neda,' Iranian woman who died on video - Los Angeles Times

In the end, I feel that this rebellion in Iran has become somewhat of a spectator sport. I am drawn to it as I am drawn to any good narrative and I am equally repulsed by my detachment from it... I am still trying to process it all.

At times, Neda's death feels like a Jessica Lynch moment and I hate that I am feeling that way.

Plan9 · 06-22-2009, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

At times, Neda's death feels like a Jessica Lynch moment and I hate that I am feeling that way.

I couldn't quite place it but you nailed it. I feel the same way.

Reese · 06-23-2009, 01:05 AM

It's just a shitty situation and hopefully the Iranian people can get the freedom they want and deserve. I'd rather compare Neda to the "Remember the Alamo" battle cry than I had compare her to the media hyped Jessica Lynch. It was only days later when the news really jumped on the Neda thing and by the time it was already seen by millions.

Martian · 06-23-2009, 07:12 AM

Charlatan, I understand what you mean. There is an element of vulgarity to all of this which is distasteful, to say the least.

The whole situation with Neda is an illustration. I can shrug off an interview or a bunch of statistics. There's a level of abstraction there which allows me to say 'well, that's not very nice' and just move on with my day. But this video makes it real. It's a name and a face, and that's why even though it is distasteful and hard to watch, it's also important and necessary.

The biggest problem with the Iran reformist movement for the West is that there's nothing we can do here. We are necessarily spectators to these events, and cannot get directly involved. I don't kid myself that sharing a video or changing a profile picture is making any sort of a difference in all of this, but what else can I do? Far greater men than I are powerless to affect this. The best I can hope for is that I can make more people aware of the situation, and show my support through what little means I have.

This Is Real, It's Important, and It's Happening Right Now.

ring · 06-23-2009, 07:48 AM

The Twitter factor has the media all in a tither.
Much will be written about the unforeseen/not unforeseen
applications of this social networking tool's capabilities.

Charlatan · 06-23-2009, 04:13 PM

Martian, I agree with what you are saying.

For me it is an oscillation between two states of being. On the one hand, I am drawn in and riveted to what is happening in Iran. I have friends there that I haven't heard from (they might be back in Toronto now). On the other, I can't help but feel like I am just an armchair critic here and that I am being served a dish of entertainment.

It's the nature of the media of the Internet and TV that I should feel this way.

Tully Mars · 06-23-2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

This Is Real, It's Important, and It's Happening Right Now.

Yes, it is. And I feel completely helpless about it.

biznatch · 06-23-2009, 04:59 PM

I was trying to articulate this yesterday, but it wouldn't come out coherently. Still haven't gotten a good way to put it, but I feel like this video is one of those great pieces of photo/video-journalism. Like the famous picture of that girl from the Vietnam war. In a few seconds, it captures so much humanity.

Herbert West · 06-24-2009, 11:03 AM

Did anyone else notice that, for a few moments, it looks like she was looking directly into the camera (about 0:07)?

Making eye contact with a dying or recently deceased person (hard to tell which) is creepy.

dlish · 06-24-2009, 11:14 AM

did anyone draw a parallel between Rachel Corrie and Neda?

both girls die fighting injustices. one is mocked and forgotten, whilst the latter is lauded for her courage.

taking nothing away from Neda, it is honourable to fight any injustice. However, till now, we dont know the extent to which she partook in the activism. and the media is playing it up to their advantage.

Rachel Corrie on the other hand was crushed by an israeli D9 excavator and was the front line in the fight against the injustices she saw. she was championed by the arabs alone.

young women with eeringly similar stories. both treated in vastly differnt lights.

The_Jazz · 06-24-2009, 11:47 AM

dlish - that's a VERY interesting observation. I'd completely forgotten about Rachel Corrie - I remember being very busy during that flare-up and missed a lot.

I just did a little reading on her based on your post and I think you've got a very good point. It makes me realize that we see what we want to see in news stories.

Martian · 06-24-2009, 03:44 PM

The comparison with Rachel Corrie is interesting. I was too self-absorbed at the time to be very much aware of what was going on in the wider world, so most of what I know about Ms. Corrie's situation comes from what I've read today. My understanding may not be complete.

The key difference I see is that Ms. Corrie was an American citizen getting involved. Certainly I don't think that lessens the significance of her actions, but it does enable a certain faction to portray her as 'spoiled little rich girl sticking her nose where it doesn't belong.'

There's also the fact that the Israel/Palestine situation is much more volatile than the one in Iran.

According to my reading, Neda wasn't particularly for any particular candidate, but was very much for democratic freedom and was invested in the Reformist movement. At the time of her death she was planning to participate in the protest, but had not arrived at the main event itself.

It all comes through media filters, naturally. There's a part of me that thinks that the whole situation would be an even more powerful statement if Neda wasn't politically motivated. Simply being shot as a bystander by the Basij, by sheer virtue of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

There's a part of me that feels a bit dirty making these comments. Goes back to Charlatan's observation.

IdeoFunk · 06-24-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

This article about Neda with interviews of her friends and family adds more context: Family, friends mourn 'Neda,' Iranian woman who died on video - Los Angeles Times

Excellent article. I had been lazily following the Iranian election on the web when today I saw an article about this story and watched the video.... It absolutely blows my mind. At this point though I'm still not sure who exactly shot her. Was it security forces or some civilian extremists? In the former case, I would say something like this definitely warrants some form of political recognition.

Martian · 06-24-2009, 03:58 PM

Reports are that she was shot by a Basij militia member. The Basij are a volunteer paramilitary force working under the Revolutionary Guard. Analogous to the National Guard in the US, I suppose.

There have been many reports of violence perpetrated by the Basij, as well as reports of victims arriving at hospital dead or wounded by gunfire. The Basij is acting to suppress and disperse rioters, and seem to be prone to using lethal force to do so.

06-22-2009, 07:59 AM	#1 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	Neda: The Iranian protests personified (WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT) Warning: The following video contains graphic content. Not for work or the faint of heart. This footage portrays the apparent death of a young woman in Iran, known only as 'Neda.' According to reports, Neda was participating in a protest march when she was shot by Basij militia members. This is a graphic and compelling demonstration of the gravity of the situation in Iran. This is not a case of a violent protest going wrong, or even of simple lawlessness. This woman did nothing more sinister than walk in the road, and for that she died. I have no further words. I feel the video speaks well enough for itself. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

06-22-2009, 04:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	For those who are unable or unwilling to watch: The video consists of two clips. The first clip starts as the person recording runs toward Neda. She's seeing being lowered to the ground, and appears initially conscious. As the camera comes up on her right side her eyes can be seen to roll back in her head, and then blood begins to stream from her nose and mouth. A man is heard saying, then screaming her name with increasing desperation. The second video is shorter, and the operator appears to be hiding what I can only assume is a cell phone camera with his thumb for the first moments. As he approaches Neda he uncovers the camera, and we see her lying on the ground in a pool of her own blood. The camera moves up to get a close up of her face. One eye is visible and is staring blankly; it's apparent at this point that if the life has not already left her body it will do so imminently. Her other eye is obscured by blood, which is also streaming over her cheeks and chin. I won't blame anyone for not wanting to watch this, but I urge anyone who thinks they can manage it to do so. It will very probably make you uncomfortable; I know it does so for me. It's also very compelling and very important. This is what's happening. It's not a newspaper article or a blog entry or a twitter feed. It's Neda, who had the courage to stand up and speak out for her freedoms, and who paid for it with her life. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

06-22-2009, 08:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
biznatch Junkie Location: France	I watched this earlier today, after hearing about it. Footage of the horrors currently happening in Iran is rare, and this just absolutely shocked me. Not because of blood, but because I was witnessing a person's painful, unfair death...And the suffering of everyone around her. __________________ Check it out: The Open Source/Freeware/Gratis Software Thread

06-22-2009, 11:39 PM	#6 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I have been watching this and, as I said elsewhere today, "Watching video of Neda I feel like a voyeur of an intimate scene. I realize this might help the cause but it still smells of exploitation." This article about Neda with interviews of her friends and family adds more context: Family, friends mourn 'Neda,' Iranian woman who died on video - Los Angeles Times In the end, I feel that this rebellion in Iran has become somewhat of a spectator sport. I am drawn to it as I am drawn to any good narrative and I am equally repulsed by my detachment from it... I am still trying to process it all. At times, Neda's death feels like a Jessica Lynch moment and I hate that I am feeling that way. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

06-23-2009, 01:05 AM	#8 (permalink)
Reese Delicious	It's just a shitty situation and hopefully the Iranian people can get the freedom they want and deserve. I'd rather compare Neda to the "Remember the Alamo" battle cry than I had compare her to the media hyped Jessica Lynch. It was only days later when the news really jumped on the Neda thing and by the time it was already seen by millions. __________________ “It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry

06-23-2009, 07:12 AM	#9 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	Charlatan, I understand what you mean. There is an element of vulgarity to all of this which is distasteful, to say the least. The whole situation with Neda is an illustration. I can shrug off an interview or a bunch of statistics. There's a level of abstraction there which allows me to say 'well, that's not very nice' and just move on with my day. But this video makes it real. It's a name and a face, and that's why even though it is distasteful and hard to watch, it's also important and necessary. The biggest problem with the Iran reformist movement for the West is that there's nothing we can do here. We are necessarily spectators to these events, and cannot get directly involved. I don't kid myself that sharing a video or changing a profile picture is making any sort of a difference in all of this, but what else can I do? Far greater men than I are powerless to affect this. The best I can hope for is that I can make more people aware of the situation, and show my support through what little means I have. This Is Real, It's Important, and It's Happening Right Now. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

06-23-2009, 07:48 AM	#10 (permalink)
ring ░ Location: ❤	The Twitter factor has the media all in a tither. Much will be written about the unforeseen/not unforeseen applications of this social networking tool's capabilities.

06-23-2009, 04:13 PM	#11 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Martian, I agree with what you are saying. For me it is an oscillation between two states of being. On the one hand, I am drawn in and riveted to what is happening in Iran. I have friends there that I haven't heard from (they might be back in Toronto now). On the other, I can't help but feel like I am just an armchair critic here and that I am being served a dish of entertainment. It's the nature of the media of the Internet and TV that I should feel this way. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

06-23-2009, 04:59 PM	#13 (permalink)
biznatch Junkie Location: France	I was trying to articulate this yesterday, but it wouldn't come out coherently. Still haven't gotten a good way to put it, but I feel like this video is one of those great pieces of photo/video-journalism. Like the famous picture of that girl from the Vietnam war. In a few seconds, it captures so much humanity. __________________ Check it out: The Open Source/Freeware/Gratis Software Thread

06-24-2009, 11:03 AM	#14 (permalink)
Herbert West Upright	Did anyone else notice that, for a few moments, it looks like she was looking directly into the camera (about 0:07)? Making eye contact with a dying or recently deceased person (hard to tell which) is creepy.

06-24-2009, 11:14 AM	#15 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	did anyone draw a parallel between Rachel Corrie and Neda? both girls die fighting injustices. one is mocked and forgotten, whilst the latter is lauded for her courage. taking nothing away from Neda, it is honourable to fight any injustice. However, till now, we dont know the extent to which she partook in the activism. and the media is playing it up to their advantage. Rachel Corrie on the other hand was crushed by an israeli D9 excavator and was the front line in the fight against the injustices she saw. she was championed by the arabs alone. young women with eeringly similar stories. both treated in vastly differnt lights. __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

06-24-2009, 11:47 AM	#16 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	dlish - that's a VERY interesting observation. I'd completely forgotten about Rachel Corrie - I remember being very busy during that flare-up and missed a lot. I just did a little reading on her based on your post and I think you've got a very good point. It makes me realize that we see what we want to see in news stories. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

06-24-2009, 03:44 PM	#17 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	The comparison with Rachel Corrie is interesting. I was too self-absorbed at the time to be very much aware of what was going on in the wider world, so most of what I know about Ms. Corrie's situation comes from what I've read today. My understanding may not be complete. The key difference I see is that Ms. Corrie was an American citizen getting involved. Certainly I don't think that lessens the significance of her actions, but it does enable a certain faction to portray her as 'spoiled little rich girl sticking her nose where it doesn't belong.' There's also the fact that the Israel/Palestine situation is much more volatile than the one in Iran. According to my reading, Neda wasn't particularly for any particular candidate, but was very much for democratic freedom and was invested in the Reformist movement. At the time of her death she was planning to participate in the protest, but had not arrived at the main event itself. It all comes through media filters, naturally. There's a part of me that thinks that the whole situation would be an even more powerful statement if Neda wasn't politically motivated. Simply being shot as a bystander by the Basij, by sheer virtue of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. There's a part of me that feels a bit dirty making these comments. Goes back to Charlatan's observation. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

06-24-2009, 03:58 PM	#19 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	Reports are that she was shot by a Basij militia member. The Basij are a volunteer paramilitary force working under the Revolutionary Guard. Analogous to the National Guard in the US, I suppose. There have been many reports of violence perpetrated by the Basij, as well as reports of victims arriving at hospital dead or wounded by gunfire. The Basij is acting to suppress and disperse rioters, and seem to be prone to using lethal force to do so. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame