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Scipio · 02-15-2004, 10:17 PM

If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.
-Voltaire

Religion started out explaining why the sun rose and why the rainy season didn't come this year, and now all it can give us is a book and an unproveable promise. Eternal happiness? Yeah, that shit makes a lot of sense.

That's all the screed I'm gonna give.

The religious difficulties I think you're imagining are linked closely to religion, but they're also linked to the "traditional values" of earlier decades and to dubious arm-chair science. I mean "traditional" in a pejorative sense. The sorts of values that include (but aren't limited to) the idea that marriage is a sacred bond between a man and a woman, and that it's ok to keep black people as slaves. Interestingly, a similar logical principle was at work as each belief met its end. The southerners needed to keep slavery, because otherwise their slavery based economic way of life would be lost (obviously). In much the same way, if the right to marry is extended to homosexuals, the status of marriage as between men and women will also be lost.

Boo hoo.

Personally, I like to think that our moral intuitions and our sense of right and wrong are too universal for any religion to be their originator. If there were no God, wouldn't murder still be wrong?

Religion gives us a more arbitrary and less free morality. It's the morality of a person (or persons or priestly class or what have you) that thought they had it all figured out. And in a sense, they did. If everybody does what the good book says, within reason, things tend to work out alright. However, the way we choose to live our lives today ought not be grounded in the arbitrary lifestyle decisions of a priest or a poet.

I'm getting off topic. The short answer is this: with or without religion, people would continue to hold on to beliefs that are anti-scientific, arbitrary, or out-dated.

edit: I equated supporters of man-woman only marriage with supporters of slavery. Go me. I hope no one is offended.

02-15-2004, 10:17 PM	#15 (permalink)
Scipio Mencken Location: College	If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him. -Voltaire Religion started out explaining why the sun rose and why the rainy season didn't come this year, and now all it can give us is a book and an unproveable promise. Eternal happiness? Yeah, that shit makes a lot of sense. That's all the screed I'm gonna give. The religious difficulties I think you're imagining are linked closely to religion, but they're also linked to the "traditional values" of earlier decades and to dubious arm-chair science. I mean "traditional" in a pejorative sense. The sorts of values that include (but aren't limited to) the idea that marriage is a sacred bond between a man and a woman, and that it's ok to keep black people as slaves. Interestingly, a similar logical principle was at work as each belief met its end. The southerners needed to keep slavery, because otherwise their slavery based economic way of life would be lost (obviously). In much the same way, if the right to marry is extended to homosexuals, the status of marriage as between men and women will also be lost. Boo hoo. Personally, I like to think that our moral intuitions and our sense of right and wrong are too universal for any religion to be their originator. If there were no God, wouldn't murder still be wrong? Religion gives us a more arbitrary and less free morality. It's the morality of a person (or persons or priestly class or what have you) that thought they had it all figured out. And in a sense, they did. If everybody does what the good book says, within reason, things tend to work out alright. However, the way we choose to live our lives today ought not be grounded in the arbitrary lifestyle decisions of a priest or a poet. I'm getting off topic. The short answer is this: with or without religion, people would continue to hold on to beliefs that are anti-scientific, arbitrary, or out-dated. edit: I equated supporters of man-woman only marriage with supporters of slavery. Go me. I hope no one is offended. __________________ "Erections lasting more than 4 hours, though rare, require immediate medical attention."