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asaris · 02-13-2004, 07:16 AM

Well, I'll bite. Right and wrong both come from God and are grounded in our nature. Because God is God, he didn't have to create, and creating, he didn't have to create any specific world (i.e., there is no "best of all possible worlds"). But having created this world, he created a world with the sorts of creatures we are. Now, God is good. So he had to create a set of moral laws such that they would lead us to our natural end -- union with him. But our natures are such that there is more than set of moral laws that would lead us to union with God. So he had some choice in the matter.

So, there are three classes of moral laws: those that, given our nature, are necessary; those that are contingent, but 'well-fitting'; and those that are 'arbitrary' (that is, arbitrary in the same sense that which side of the road we drive on is arbitrary). The difficulty is an epistemological one: for any given moral law, we don't know what category it fits into. Note that, among all of the last four (or six, or five, depending on how you count) of the 10 commandments, God commands at some point a breach of the commandment, except in the case of adultery (yes, adultery, not murder (see Abraham), and not lying (It's somewhere in Kings). So either God is not good, or he can, for our benefit, set aside part of the moral law in a particular situation.

I might add two things by way of an addendum:
1. My position is essentially derived from that of the medieval thinker John Duns Scotus, though not identical to his.
2. This is a philosophical position, not a religious position. That is, while it excepts the Biblical accounts as largely true in the important ways, it is not dependant on my Christianity for my belief in it, nor is my belief in Christianity dependant on it. Similarly, it is not a position that could be proven from scripture alone.

02-13-2004, 07:16 AM	#2 (permalink)
asaris Mad Philosopher Location: Washington, DC	Well, I'll bite. Right and wrong both come from God and are grounded in our nature. Because God is God, he didn't have to create, and creating, he didn't have to create any specific world (i.e., there is no "best of all possible worlds"). But having created this world, he created a world with the sorts of creatures we are. Now, God is good. So he had to create a set of moral laws such that they would lead us to our natural end -- union with him. But our natures are such that there is more than set of moral laws that would lead us to union with God. So he had some choice in the matter. So, there are three classes of moral laws: those that, given our nature, are necessary; those that are contingent, but 'well-fitting'; and those that are 'arbitrary' (that is, arbitrary in the same sense that which side of the road we drive on is arbitrary). The difficulty is an epistemological one: for any given moral law, we don't know what category it fits into. Note that, among all of the last four (or six, or five, depending on how you count) of the 10 commandments, God commands at some point a breach of the commandment, except in the case of adultery (yes, adultery, not murder (see Abraham), and not lying (It's somewhere in Kings). So either God is not good, or he can, for our benefit, set aside part of the moral law in a particular situation. I might add two things by way of an addendum: 1. My position is essentially derived from that of the medieval thinker John Duns Scotus, though not identical to his. 2. This is a philosophical position, not a religious position. That is, while it excepts the Biblical accounts as largely true in the important ways, it is not dependant on my Christianity for my belief in it, nor is my belief in Christianity dependant on it. Similarly, it is not a position that could be proven from scripture alone. __________________ "Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht." "The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm." -- Friedrich Nietzsche Last edited by asaris; 02-13-2004 at 07:19 AM..