rat

please read the responces AND preferrably the article involved before replying. much of what you said is way off, and has been addressed previously in this thread.

As far as "killing machines," no, that's not what they're trained to do. They may _receive_ training in the area of firearms and unarmed combat, but their training emphasizes forethought and judgement. Enlisted men are trained to follow orders, however, senior enlisted, especially NCOs are expected to exercise judgement prior to action. Their job description not only involves active leadership of lower-ranked enlisted, but to be sounding boards for the young officers that lead platoons and to a lesser extent companies. Anyone that holds to the killing machine mentality must be having flashbacks of conscript soldiers from the Vietnam era who went through very little training and have minimal exposure to professional soldiers. Yes, killing, the will to kill, and the ability to execute that fact are part of the training, but that is far from "what they are trained to do." It is oversimplifying something that is an intensely complex process.

Additionally, as enlisted members of an air wing detachment visiting the town, odds are their primary jobs are either administrative, technical/mechanical or as crew on helicopters. Regardless of the "Every Marine is a Rifelman" mantra, these men are not regular direct combat troops. They have their BS training, maybe some advanced stuff for the NCO since he had to go through the Marine equivalent of Army BNOC (don't know the proper Marine designation offhand)--or Basic Non-Comissioned Officers Course. Outside of that, their primary tasks more than likely DO NOT involve firing a rifle or tossing grenades--or fighting with knives.

Strictly speaking, this looks like another barfight gone bad. Hell, when Americans have been known to murder their relatives over the dinner table (ie, a turkey leg or chicken wing) because they do not exercise forethought or judgement, why is it that anyone is surprised when two Americans escalate a barfight out of proportion? Is anyone surprised that a Marine might happen to be carrying a knife--one that odds are is a Ka-Bar equivalent, standard issue knife or simply a personal keepsake/favorite? Hell, any military in the world will train you to rely on your weapons, to keep them in working order, and keep them always at the ready. Wondering why he's carrying the knife? Because there's always the chance he would be on the receiving end of a barfight escalation or similar circumstances--especially outside his own country. He's been taught since the first day of Basic School that his weapon is his lifeline. Going unarmed for him is the equivalent of you walking around without trousers and underwear. Being without a service sidearm is one thing, but expecting him not to carry any weapon is naive at best--and unintelligent at worst.

None of the above is meant to mitigate the end result of the issue at hand--that a university student was attacked and stabbed in the neck by two American Marines. Rather, it is simply there to possibly help clear up some misconceptions and dispel certain hintings here regarding the circumstantial evidence (ie, knife posession) at hand.


Three men were drunk. At least two of them traded words. One got hurt. Sound like any barfights you've ever heard of? Only thing out of the ordinary was that it was two uniformed servicemen in a foreign port of call. That fact doesn't make them immune to the effects of alcohol, the lack of inhibition that is involved with alcohol consumption, nor to the stress of a foreign cruise. They go to a bar to blow off steam, an argument breaks out, a fight happens, and one man takes it way too far. It's happened countless times in other places, with other troops, in other countries. Sometimes the soldiers are on the giving end, sometimes they're on the receiving end. Just depends on the date/location and people involved. Pathetic and sickening to say the least, but surprising not in the slightest.

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