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Originally posted by flamingdog
First things first, this isn't a personal attack. I just noticed a few points...
By all means pat yourself on the back for contributing, but don't for a second pretend that response was even relevant to Unga's question.
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You got me, i misread unga's post and though he was just asking for opinions on philosphy in general. I guess
:::OshnSoul::: and TheKak did too, so i don't feel so bad. Anyway, score for you.
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I wish I could have popped out of my mother a fully formed filosofizin' machine, man, but unfortunately, I had this tiresome thing called immaturity to overcome. Good philosophy is the product of many years of study, argument and refinement. Sadly, most philosophers don't spend the time and energy they need to attain that level. In fact, most people who are new to philosophy are so taken with the fact that they're debating the biggest issues there are, it does turn into intellectual masturbation. So most philosophers suck. I know I do.
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I'm sorry you thought i was talking to you. I was actually talking to parkhurst since he was the one who thought it best to continue our discussion in a new thread. I guess since your comments echoed his it might still apply. I think you miss the point of this post though. My point was that parkhurst was trying to win, rather than trying to "learn and refine his perspective". My evidence for this was his apparent refusal to acknowledge the fact that i admitted that i find value in some philosophical disussions. Without my denouncement of all that is philosophy his argument is off base.
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So does that instantly invalidate my opinion? Is it worthless to argue a point, because I'm not very good at it? To my mind, it takes an awful lot of dedication to reach the lucidity of argument that produces philosophical truth. I view the bad arguments and the intellectual masturbation and the personal attacks and the 'but that's a cop-out' rejoinders as a hurdle to be overcome on the path to philosophical mastery. So let 'em have their arguments.
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I hope your not taking this personally, i wasn't trying to say that you can't argue well. Just that you're position doesn't contradict mine. As for your search for "philosophical truth"
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Originally posted by flamingdog
I have to agree with my man Parkhurst here, there's nothing in the world you can prove conclusively. As Karl Popper puts it, all knowledge is conjecture and refutation.
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What is truth if you can't prove anything conclusively?
If you want to use bad philosophical discussions as a learning tool, good, that's a good way to learn what you respect and don't respect in other people's opinions and reasoning. But don't pretend that such things have inherent value beyond learning how to argue. Sometimes you might find a gem of a discussion, but most of the time you may end up pondering an absurdity that you don't even care about.
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And with such scorching philosophical hot potatoes as 'If You Could Have Sex With God, Would You?' flying around, I have to say, man, I can't believe he hasn't participated more.
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You prove my point. No offense to anyone who enjoyed that particular philosophical discussion, but c'mon. Is that what you and parkhurst are talking about when you attempt claim that all philosophy is inherently valuable? Am i lazy or incapable for not being ultra-enthusiastic about debating such things?
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That just doesn't make sense. So I don't have a post in EVERY SINGLE THREAD on the board. That means I don't have an opinon on the matters? I don't know about you, but I don't really have time to sit here 24/7.
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Aha, so you admit it then. There are more important things to you than debating philosphy 24/7. I guess i got the impression that you thought i was dead wrong for pointing out that many philosophical arguments didn't matter to me, and were even irrelevant.
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And this is your picture of personal betterment? Something irrelevant to your view of the world is dismissed? Did it occur to you that once in a while your view of the world might need shifting? I wouldn't for a second suggest it in all cases. But what's the point in going into an argument thinking everything contrary is irrelevant to you?
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Do you know how to tell when your worldview needs shifting? As soon as you realize that your world view needs shifting, that is when your world view needs shifting. When your perspective becomes a problem than you should re-examine your motivations and your beliefs. Philosophy is a tool. If that tool ceases to do its job effectively than you need to find yourself a new tool. If i have a question, i ask somebody. The fact is that most discussions contain answers to questions i never asked and don't care to know. If you want to know than by all means participate, just don't tell me i'm wrong when i point out my perspective.
P.S. Just so you know that i find value in the discussions i participate in: This little discussion has made explore and rephrase my perspective on this matter. Thanks for your part.