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shakran · 01-28-2004, 11:54 PM

Ya know, I've been fuming about this latest twist to the conversation for a couple of hours. Comparing a black person to a disabled person and trying to imply that the black guy has it anywhere NEAR as rough as the disabled guy is the utmost in ignorance.

illesturban, let's go over a few things shall we?

When's the last time a you went into a family restaurant and got openly disgusted stares from many of the diners? Happens to my brother all the time. The public doesn't like seeing disabled people.

When's the last time you were sitting at a restaurant and had patrons complain that your chair was sticking too far out and the manager should "kick those kinds of people out so normal people can eat in peace?"

When's the last time you crossed the street, only to discover that you can't get on the sidewalk on the other side due to an impassable barrier? Try rolling a chair over a curb that has no curb cut, or that has a curb cut but it's a deep puddle after a rain, or that has a curb cut that's in such awful repair that the chair would get stuck. My brother deals with this every day.

When's the last time you couldn't go into a store because there weren't any parking places available that had enough room next to them to get out of your car? Ever see motorcycles parked in the white hash marks next to the handicapped space? Guess what that does for the guy with a wheelchair lift.

When's the last time you couldn't go into a store because there were only 6 parking places you were allowed to park in, and they've all been taken up by people who don't need them? Happens every DAY to disabled people.

When's the last time you tried to go into a store only to discover they didn't have an entrance that you could physically get through?

When's the last time you were out in public and couldn't go to the bathroom because you couldn't fit in the stall?

When's the last time you got exasperated sighs, coughs, and shouted insults from customers and clerks because it took you too long to get your credit card out to pay for something? Try losing most of your muscle mass so your fingers can't grip anything very well, and then see how long it takes you to get a card out of your wallet.

When's the last time you were going down the sidewalk and were yelled at because you're "taking up too much space, asshole?" Just saw that happen to my brother last week.

When's the last time you were walking down the sidewalk, and your body suddenly turned off so you couldn't move, and no one would help you? Happened to my brother when his chair died. He was stuck there for 3 hours waiting for someone to help him.

When's the last time you were terrified to stand because you're not strong enough to stop yourself if you start to fall, and your bones have atrophied due to lack of use, so if you DO fall you're gonna break a lot of them?

When's the last time you had to pay $70,000 just to get around? When's the last time you had to pay $10,000 just so you could get out of bed? When's the last time you had to have someone wipe your butt after you used the toilet because you couldn't reach around to do it yourself? When's the last time your entire family was destroyed because your condition made it impossible to focus on anything BUT your condition?

When's the last time you had to plan your trips away from home very carefully because if you go too far and have to take a crap, you'll have to go in your pants because there aren't any toilets in public that are tall enough for you to get off of?

When's the last time your son had to lift you off the toilet because you couldn't get up yourself, even though you have an extra-tall ADA toilet with a 1.5 foot riser on top of it?

And when's the last time the simple act of getting out of bed was such a long, hard ordeal that it depressed you for the rest of the day, because you feel utterly useless and totally dependant on everyone for everything?

My point in all this is that the disabled population has a VERY tough row to hoe. If black people think they face daily discrimination, they should try being disabled some time. It's infinitely worse. Blacks, as a rule, no longer get disgusted looks just because they had the audacity to be in public. They can enter any public building they want. They're not automatically disqualified from the majority of jobs out there (hint: disabled people can't do physical jobs. Kinda limits their options). If you want to start comparing disadvantages, I guarantee you that NO minority has as many as the disabled community, because the disabled community is at the same stage of the discrimination timeline as the black community was in 1950. Except that a black guy in 1950 could go from one end of the sidewalk to the other without worrying about getting stuck and not being able to move. A disabled guy can't do that even today, 50 years later.

The bottom line is that we're all human. We're all people. Race doesn't mean dick when it comes to evaluating a person. Labels don't mean dick either. African American, People of Color, Negro, Black, it all means the same damn thing. Shut up and move on. If you get this bent out of shape over a damn LABEL then you need a serious reality check.

Ya know, the disabled community largely doesn't give a shit what you call them. the PC community loves to come up with new and exciting labels - "physically challenged" and "differently abled" being my favorite. The majority of disabled people think that's all bullshit, and it is. They'd rather have unrestricted access to restaurants and stores than waste time dicking around trying to change what we call them.

And regarding the award, first off, like I've said, there isn't one person on this forum that can say with 100% certainty what the motives of these kids were. They might have been being royal pricks. They might also have been making a political statement. Assuming that because they're white or because one of them is south African or because they come from a rich school, or whatever other bullshit reason you base your groundless assumptions on - -assuming that they're being assholes because of that is pure prejudice.

"oh well, they're white people. They just wanna be racist and stir up trouble."

It's wrong, and it shows the ignorance of anyone who does it.

Let's break this award out and carry it to its logical conclusion.

This award can be projected into lots of other programs so we can be sure to "enhance diversity" by making exclusionary awards the norm everywhere. Let's have the black Indy 500 winner trophy. Fastest time from a black driver wins. Black-only golf tournaments. Black Wimbledon. Black-only National Merit Scholarship. This is also called segregation, discrimination, and racism, but I guess all that is good as long as it's not being done TO you, but FOR you, is that it?

Fine, if the black community insists on special awards, months, holidays, etc, that highlight the fact that black people are different from everyone else, that's your decision. Do whatever the hell you want, but don't go running around crying because people view you differently. If you don't want to be viewed as different, don't make such a damn big effort to tell everyone you're different. Instead try telling the truth - that you're people, just like every other person. Diversity doesn't mean blacks, whites, and mexicans. Diversity means individuality.

At any rate, don't act like when it comes to discrimination you're even in the same league as disabled people, because compared to them, no matter what discrimination you face, they face far more.

And finally, I guarantee you that Martin Luther King would be disgusted at the state of affairs today. We as a society have taken his dream of a colorblind world in which people were judged on their merit rather than their appearance and twisted it into a nightmare of constant racial bickering and hatred. We took his vision and turned it into a fight for labels - the very thing he gave his life fighting for. We've taken all the ideas he had and corrupted them to the point where they're unrecognizeable, insisting instead on a society in which we do the exact opposite of what he fought so hard to achieve. Yet we have the audacity to name a holiday after this man, as though that will make up for our destroying the future that he made possible. Give me a break.

01-28-2004, 11:54 PM	#126 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	Ya know, I've been fuming about this latest twist to the conversation for a couple of hours. Comparing a black person to a disabled person and trying to imply that the black guy has it anywhere NEAR as rough as the disabled guy is the utmost in ignorance. illesturban, let's go over a few things shall we? When's the last time a you went into a family restaurant and got openly disgusted stares from many of the diners? Happens to my brother all the time. The public doesn't like seeing disabled people. When's the last time you were sitting at a restaurant and had patrons complain that your chair was sticking too far out and the manager should "kick those kinds of people out so normal people can eat in peace?" When's the last time you crossed the street, only to discover that you can't get on the sidewalk on the other side due to an impassable barrier? Try rolling a chair over a curb that has no curb cut, or that has a curb cut but it's a deep puddle after a rain, or that has a curb cut that's in such awful repair that the chair would get stuck. My brother deals with this every day. When's the last time you couldn't go into a store because there weren't any parking places available that had enough room next to them to get out of your car? Ever see motorcycles parked in the white hash marks next to the handicapped space? Guess what that does for the guy with a wheelchair lift. When's the last time you couldn't go into a store because there were only 6 parking places you were allowed to park in, and they've all been taken up by people who don't need them? Happens every DAY to disabled people. When's the last time you tried to go into a store only to discover they didn't have an entrance that you could physically get through? When's the last time you were out in public and couldn't go to the bathroom because you couldn't fit in the stall? When's the last time you got exasperated sighs, coughs, and shouted insults from customers and clerks because it took you too long to get your credit card out to pay for something? Try losing most of your muscle mass so your fingers can't grip anything very well, and then see how long it takes you to get a card out of your wallet. When's the last time you were going down the sidewalk and were yelled at because you're "taking up too much space, asshole?" Just saw that happen to my brother last week. When's the last time you were walking down the sidewalk, and your body suddenly turned off so you couldn't move, and no one would help you? Happened to my brother when his chair died. He was stuck there for 3 hours waiting for someone to help him. When's the last time you were terrified to stand because you're not strong enough to stop yourself if you start to fall, and your bones have atrophied due to lack of use, so if you DO fall you're gonna break a lot of them? When's the last time you had to pay $70,000 just to get around? When's the last time you had to pay $10,000 just so you could get out of bed? When's the last time you had to have someone wipe your butt after you used the toilet because you couldn't reach around to do it yourself? When's the last time your entire family was destroyed because your condition made it impossible to focus on anything BUT your condition? When's the last time you had to plan your trips away from home very carefully because if you go too far and have to take a crap, you'll have to go in your pants because there aren't any toilets in public that are tall enough for you to get off of? When's the last time your son had to lift you off the toilet because you couldn't get up yourself, even though you have an extra-tall ADA toilet with a 1.5 foot riser on top of it? And when's the last time the simple act of getting out of bed was such a long, hard ordeal that it depressed you for the rest of the day, because you feel utterly useless and totally dependant on everyone for everything? My point in all this is that the disabled population has a VERY tough row to hoe. If black people think they face daily discrimination, they should try being disabled some time. It's infinitely worse. Blacks, as a rule, no longer get disgusted looks just because they had the audacity to be in public. They can enter any public building they want. They're not automatically disqualified from the majority of jobs out there (hint: disabled people can't do physical jobs. Kinda limits their options). If you want to start comparing disadvantages, I guarantee you that NO minority has as many as the disabled community, because the disabled community is at the same stage of the discrimination timeline as the black community was in 1950. Except that a black guy in 1950 could go from one end of the sidewalk to the other without worrying about getting stuck and not being able to move. A disabled guy can't do that even today, 50 years later. The bottom line is that we're all human. We're all people. Race doesn't mean dick when it comes to evaluating a person. Labels don't mean dick either. African American, People of Color, Negro, Black, it all means the same damn thing. Shut up and move on. If you get this bent out of shape over a damn LABEL then you need a serious reality check. Ya know, the disabled community largely doesn't give a shit what you call them. the PC community loves to come up with new and exciting labels - "physically challenged" and "differently abled" being my favorite. The majority of disabled people think that's all bullshit, and it is. They'd rather have unrestricted access to restaurants and stores than waste time dicking around trying to change what we call them. And regarding the award, first off, like I've said, there isn't one person on this forum that can say with 100% certainty what the motives of these kids were. They might have been being royal pricks. They might also have been making a political statement. Assuming that because they're white or because one of them is south African or because they come from a rich school, or whatever other bullshit reason you base your groundless assumptions on - -assuming that they're being assholes because of that is pure prejudice. "oh well, they're white people. They just wanna be racist and stir up trouble." It's wrong, and it shows the ignorance of anyone who does it. Let's break this award out and carry it to its logical conclusion. This award can be projected into lots of other programs so we can be sure to "enhance diversity" by making exclusionary awards the norm everywhere. Let's have the black Indy 500 winner trophy. Fastest time from a black driver wins. Black-only golf tournaments. Black Wimbledon. Black-only National Merit Scholarship. This is also called segregation, discrimination, and racism, but I guess all that is good as long as it's not being done TO you, but FOR you, is that it? Fine, if the black community insists on special awards, months, holidays, etc, that highlight the fact that black people are different from everyone else, that's your decision. Do whatever the hell you want, but don't go running around crying because people view you differently. If you don't want to be viewed as different, don't make such a damn big effort to tell everyone you're different. Instead try telling the truth - that you're people, just like every other person. Diversity doesn't mean blacks, whites, and mexicans. Diversity means individuality. At any rate, don't act like when it comes to discrimination you're even in the same league as disabled people, because compared to them, no matter what discrimination you face, they face far more. And finally, I guarantee you that Martin Luther King would be disgusted at the state of affairs today. We as a society have taken his dream of a colorblind world in which people were judged on their merit rather than their appearance and twisted it into a nightmare of constant racial bickering and hatred. We took his vision and turned it into a fight for labels - the very thing he gave his life fighting for. We've taken all the ideas he had and corrupted them to the point where they're unrecognizeable, insisting instead on a society in which we do the exact opposite of what he fought so hard to achieve. Yet we have the audacity to name a holiday after this man, as though that will make up for our destroying the future that he made possible. Give me a break.