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Originally posted by nanofever
[B]Okay thats about enough o' the bull that you are spinning....
The deaths caused by Stalin were in the name of statism just because Stalin was a sociopath has nothing to do with his beliefs. Furthermore, Stalin did take Russia from a back-water third world country to a country that can do toe-to-toe with the united states and he did this in less than 30 years.
On Saddam you said "I do remember Saddam imprisoning and crushing the beliefs of Shiites because it challeneged his power..." Gee a dictator killing people who challenge his rule, how very, very predictiable. This one is again a product of politics and statism.
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So one thing I never got was this, perhaps you can help me out Nano... When the church put people to death they were just being corrupt and evil. *Note that these people that challenged their politic power* But when a secular atheist like Stalin targets people of particular religions and sends them to their deaths "its just a product of politics and statism".
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"Further more you may resent the Church for sins of the past, but my humble and most honorable leader PJP II has asked for forgiveness of the sins of the past and if you are not "man" enough to forgive the church that beef rests on you"
You fail to see that the Church then and the Church now are the same, the Catholic Church is a power structure and it tries to get people to live the way it wants them to live. The CC still has a misguided worldview because that worldview is based on a static 1900/1700 (Nicea) year old book. The beliefs against birth control is only their so that more Catholics are born and thus the Vatican power structure is propped-up. The lies (Condoms can't stop AIDS, ect) coming out of the Vatican hurt all people and are solely propigated to further the Catholic Churches agenda. The reason I can't forgive the Catholic Church is the acts have changed but the mindset is clearly the same.
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Comments like "You fail to see that the Church then and the Church now are the same" just show your ignorance regarding the church. PJP II and Vatican II (which was done in 1960's, not 1700's) have done a great many things that brought the church into the modern century. However you feel just because the church holds its ground on morals and its beliefs, because it hasn't caved to the "moral progress" that is eating away at the moral fiber of our culture and society, they are stuck in past.
The whole Catholics only like birth control because its creates more catholics is a pretty weak comment, there may be some truth to it, but not much. I think its more an issue of those crazy catholics and their crazy beliefs value the sanctity of life. Having sex creates a human life, who'd a thunk?!?! Condoms can't stop aids is a lie? What if it breaks? Is not a cell of the Aids virus several hundred times smaller then the would be semi-permiable holes of the condom? Besides whats wrong with the churchs' message of abstinance, it is the true means of would be safe sex... even though there is a lack of said sex.
Bottom line people like you knock the church for the same reasons that you are bitching at them, their agenda doesn't fir yours.
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Your aguments against Muslims are absurd since Christians and Jews were taxed a bit and then left alone in Muslim society. All-non Christians were killed in a LOT of Christian societies, hell a lot of the time it was Christians killing Christians (Spanish inqusition, France's religious wars.) Nevermind that Muslim society PRESERVED western (Greek/Roman) society when Europe into the Dark Ages till the Renissance/Enlightenment.
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Actually a big part of the preservation was due to catholic monks who kept writing and copied hundreds of years worth of literature. But I'm not going to argue history. All I ever said was that church fucked up in the past, we have asked for forgiveness now, but obviously you aren't man enough to acknowledge that and forgive them.
Also sorry if I am thread hijacking here, but I think my rant is relevant to the topic at hand.