Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post

Moonduck · 01-20-2004, 06:35 AM

-Firing out of battery. Most Glocks will do this to some degree, especially those improperly maintained.

-Significantly overpressure rounds. These occur mostly in homemade reloads or in commercially remanufactured ammunition, but have occurred in factory ammunition as well.

-Lack of full case support in the critical area over the feed ramp of all large caliber (.40 S&W, 10mm, .45 ACP) Glock pistols. [See Annotation #5]

2 out of 3 of the above are operator error. I've seen kB's on S&W Police Model .38 Specials for goodness sake. They're basically bulletproof and wildly over-engineered, yet people still blow them up by over-charging handloads (and the rare oddball overcharge from factory). I personally consider this statistical puffery from someone with an axe to grind on Glocks. The 1911 series has, in standard trim, a partially unsupoorted barrel and can kB when improperly maintained and used with overcharged handloads. Nothing about dangerous 1911's kB'ing.

You will always see Glock hate out there. Like em or not, Glock's changed the face of handgunning forever. Prior to Gaston Glock's M-17, there was precisely zero serious consideration of a plastic-framed gun. Now damned near every major manufacturer makes one, or has made one. The problem here is that there will be those that despise change in any form, and Glock is the flagwaver for change in handgun design.

I like Glocks. I have a Glock 19 that has been, hands-down, the most reliable autopistol I've ever owned (zero stoppages, period). The only guns I've ever owned with record like it has are revolvers. Hell, I've owned revolvers that were less reliable. (In case anyone is wondering, I've also owned products by Sig, H&K, Ruger, etc so I do have a fair pool to compare it to).

As to the safety argument, I disagree. I learned gun safety a long time ago, and the rules taught me not to trust mechanical safeties. I also learned to shoot on revolvers, what have no active safeties anyway. That whole "Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot" lesson comes to mind. There are no "safe" pistols, only safe gunhandling practices.

Now, if you want to talk about what the trigger-face safety does to the quality of the trigger pull, I'll grouse with you. Awful triggers, but it isn't in my possession as a target gun anyway. If you want to gripe about drop-free mags that don't drop, or the fact that it (liek all polymer framed guns) has a nasty tendency towards increased muzzle-flip as you empty the clip due to changing center of gravity, I'm with you. The whole kB thing is, as I've said, statistical puffery though, so I can't really go with you on that one.

As to Sig's, they're great. What can I say? They are a shooter's gun, and I don't think I've ever talked to anyone that has had any sort of relationship with a Sig that didn't like the like. H&K is similar, though I am not the rabid USP fan that others seem to be. I can get lathered up over the P7, but the USP is merely nice and practical, not zoomy cool like the P7. Bottom line is that Sig and H&K make very, very good guns that shooters like quite a bit, and this is, in many ways, a shooters' forum.

01-20-2004, 06:35 AM	#5 (permalink)
Moonduck Junkie Location: SE USA	-Firing out of battery. Most Glocks will do this to some degree, especially those improperly maintained. -Significantly overpressure rounds. These occur mostly in homemade reloads or in commercially remanufactured ammunition, but have occurred in factory ammunition as well. -Lack of full case support in the critical area over the feed ramp of all large caliber (.40 S&W, 10mm, .45 ACP) Glock pistols. [See Annotation #5] 2 out of 3 of the above are operator error. I've seen kB's on S&W Police Model .38 Specials for goodness sake. They're basically bulletproof and wildly over-engineered, yet people still blow them up by over-charging handloads (and the rare oddball overcharge from factory). I personally consider this statistical puffery from someone with an axe to grind on Glocks. The 1911 series has, in standard trim, a partially unsupoorted barrel and can kB when improperly maintained and used with overcharged handloads. Nothing about dangerous 1911's kB'ing. You will always see Glock hate out there. Like em or not, Glock's changed the face of handgunning forever. Prior to Gaston Glock's M-17, there was precisely zero serious consideration of a plastic-framed gun. Now damned near every major manufacturer makes one, or has made one. The problem here is that there will be those that despise change in any form, and Glock is the flagwaver for change in handgun design. I like Glocks. I have a Glock 19 that has been, hands-down, the most reliable autopistol I've ever owned (zero stoppages, period). The only guns I've ever owned with record like it has are revolvers. Hell, I've owned revolvers that were less reliable. (In case anyone is wondering, I've also owned products by Sig, H&K, Ruger, etc so I do have a fair pool to compare it to). As to the safety argument, I disagree. I learned gun safety a long time ago, and the rules taught me not to trust mechanical safeties. I also learned to shoot on revolvers, what have no active safeties anyway. That whole "Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot" lesson comes to mind. There are no "safe" pistols, only safe gunhandling practices. Now, if you want to talk about what the trigger-face safety does to the quality of the trigger pull, I'll grouse with you. Awful triggers, but it isn't in my possession as a target gun anyway. If you want to gripe about drop-free mags that don't drop, or the fact that it (liek all polymer framed guns) has a nasty tendency towards increased muzzle-flip as you empty the clip due to changing center of gravity, I'm with you. The whole kB thing is, as I've said, statistical puffery though, so I can't really go with you on that one. As to Sig's, they're great. What can I say? They are a shooter's gun, and I don't think I've ever talked to anyone that has had any sort of relationship with a Sig that didn't like the like. H&K is similar, though I am not the rabid USP fan that others seem to be. I can get lathered up over the P7, but the USP is merely nice and practical, not zoomy cool like the P7. Bottom line is that Sig and H&K make very, very good guns that shooters like quite a bit, and this is, in many ways, a shooters' forum.