tiberry

Mantus - I truly admire your mastery of logic. Yet you permit the logic to prevent you from understanding. Use the force Luke...sorry, couldn't resist that...

It is exactly as you stated: There was no creation, everything was always there (here), we were never created, we always were, (and always will be).

I think you feel as though you missed something because of my analysis of the word 'motivate', and following my logic - there is no need for motivation. I believe, that was a necessary progression to disprove your perception that there was once nothing, and now something - creation, and that this creation somehow needed to be prompted by a motivation. Now that we've cleared that hurdle, and we accept that everything that is always was, is, and always will be (we do accept that, right?) we can move further. More clearly, I didn't mean to imply that god has never acted - merely not acted in the way you once thought.

Let's try this: Perception=Reality. You've heard that, right? Well guess what...its true. Probably more true than most are willing to accept - on the grandest of scales. Imagine yourself floating inside a very (infinitely) large sphere. I tell you that the exit is "up". How can you get out? Impossible, because you have no reference or perception of up or down. Now. Imagine yourself not only floating inside the sphere, you ARE the sphere, all the space inside, and outside the sphere. Pretty hard to draw a reference, huh? For that matter - how can you even be sure you exist? You are either everything, or you are nothing - but you can't PROVE either! What a predicament!! Probably pretty boring too as someone stated earlier.

You need a reference point. How can you make one? Since you are EVERYTHING; the only option is to divide yourself into parts, so that you can reference between them. You can now PERCEIVE movement, distance, time, weight, height, and an infinite number of other 'experiences'.

Keep in mind - you are only experiencing yourself, not really creating anything in the literal sense. Everything that is always was. But you can keep "pseudo-creating" just by coming up with new ways to experience yourself! How cool!!! THIS, THIS very thing is what 'motivates' god.

Your old perception: God is an individual that is constantly working to create new things, devising plans, implementing plans, causing things to happen, etc. You've already seen the flaw in this logic!!! You know this isn't right, or you'd have never asked the question!

Reality: God isn't "doing" anything except for experiencing himself. In an infinite number of ways.

Again - Experience motivates god.


O.K. Last thing. You stated that :::OshnSoul's::: post contradicts my view. Quite the contrary, read again:

This energy- this pure, unseen, unheeard, unobserved, and therefore unknown-by-anyone else energy- chose to experience Itself as the utter magnificence It was. In order to do this, It realized It would have to use a reference point within.
It reasoned, quite correctly, that any portion of Itself would necessarily have to be less that the whole, and that if It thus simply divided Itself into portions, each portion, being less than the whole, could look back on the rest of Itself and see magnificence.

And so All That Is divided Itself- becoming, in one glorious moment, that which Is, and that which is this and that which is that. For the first time, this and that existed, quite apart from each other. And still, both existed simultaneously. As did all that was neither.

Thus, three elements suddenly existed: that which is here. That which is there. And that which is neither here nor there- but which must exist for here and there to exist.
It is the nothing which olds the everything. It is the non-space which holds the space.

Where is the contradiction?

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My life's work is to bridge the gap between that which is perceived by the mind and that which is quantifiable by words and numbers.