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Old 01-14-2004, 11:04 PM   #24 (permalink)
chavos
Banned
 
Location: St. Paul, MN
bar enosh is not clear in the daniel text...i took a seminar on the book with Prof. Agabo Borges de Sousa, a noted scholar on the text. The views presented by Collins, Koch, and others contained significant conflict as to the meaning of the phrase. it is clearly a divine figure, but may serve to indicate that God intends to act radically with in human history using a human as God's agent for change. It may also refer to an angel, who is devine but not a diety.

Simply because of the confusion, it is not enough to claim that Jesus must have meant or been understood as claiming to be God by referecing the passage. He could have just as easily been claiming to be a human, annoited messenger of God. His apocalyptic world view would fit in well with either interpretation. Simply, we will not find resolution with the term Son of Man. Its use was much wider than the Daniel text, for one thing...which you note.

Taming of the sea...again, we do not see by what power he is performing the action. In the book of Samuel, Elijah rains down fire. Is he God?

Regardless of if a eyewitness was still alive...John was clearly not written by an eyewitness. it disagrees substantively with the synoptics on timing, theology, and almost everything. it is a witness to the Jesus movement, surely. it is not a terribly reliable witness to Jesus of Nazareth. Some early material finds inclusion...but the corpus bears the signs of late authorship, and attendant high Christology.

The Epistles? If you refer to Paul's letters, or the Pauline material, then yes, there is some material that would suggest high Christology. IMO, its uncertain. But it is rather irrelevant, given that Paul never met Jesus of Nazareth. I'll assume he met Christ, but the witness is of Paul's faith, not of Jesus's words.

i maintain my forgiveness arguement as it stands, as i think i've responded to those points in previous statements...it is a point of disagreement on which there is probably soley sematic distinction, so it may not be profitable to argue.

Simiarly, i believe WWJD is a specious question much of the time. I don't always imitate Isaiah, Elijah, John the Baptist or Saul of Tarsus....as it wouldn't make much sense. I feel the same way with Jesus. He reveals and uncovers a means of interaction with God, the unbrokered basilia (kingdom). I tend towards liberation theology, so i would point to the importance of Jesus the Christ as being God's declaration that God will be fully present in our suffering and stay with us in love to resist and heal our rebellion, pain, and fall.
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