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Tophat665 · 01-01-2004, 11:59 AM

Sure, the particular scene you describe has the capacity to offend. So what? It's no one's right to not be offended.

I am beginning to view the plaints of Christian bashing as just another effort on the order of the successful one that gave us the myth of a Liberal Media. Get over it. There are more Christians in this country than any other religion. Merely on a per capita basis, they should be criticized more often. Now, there are some very vocal, very organized Christian sects that have successfully gotten their members selected (elected or installed is not the argument I am making here. Save it for later) to be the highest officials in this country. This means that national policy will be shaped by fringe Christians, fundamentalists, people who are every bit as Christain as, say, Ariel Sharon. Still they call themselves Christians, even though they are actually Old Testament fetishists, and, by and large, those who are truly Christians - you know: faith is Christ, love thy neighbor, forgivenss is a virtue type people - don't get up in arms about this. Well, if one disgrees with the policy, then the Christian Fundies shaping our national agenda deserve one's opposition, the groups that they rode to power deserve one's anger, and the folks who actually believe in Christ who have let their faith be hijacked deserve one's contempt.

Don't get me wrong, I despise Fundamentalist Muslims and Jews and Hindus every bit as much. Fundamentalist Jews block any move by Israel toward peaceful coexistance with the palestinians. And fundamentalist Muslims, well, they would largely like to see this country turned into a sheet of radioactive glass. It seems to me that fundamentalism is any religion is the same as mistaking the religion's metaphors for literal truth. So Fundamentalists are not going back to fundamentals; they are mistaking the symbol for the substance. Because of this it is not possible to argue with a fundamentalist. What is is written and that is all there is to it. One can kill fundamentalists, but then one goes to jail, and rightly. They're still people, if ridiculous people. The only viable option is to ridicule them at every opportunity.

Now, in order to effectively ridicule Muslim and Jewish fundamentalists, one must set up the conditions that make them look unreasonable. Right now, American foreign policy does not do that. American foreign policy is, at the moment, controlled by Christian Fundamentalists. Therefore, as a matter of effect, the Christian fundamentalists must be ridiculed to the point of marginalization (or until they do something so grossly stupid that they can be locked up as a clear and present danger to the security of this country. One would think that advocating the Nuking of Foggy Bottom would have been enough to get that ball rolling, but low friends in high places and all that.) Once we get some leadership that is willing to see the world the way it is instead of just reading about it in the Bible, then we can start on marginalizing the rest of the fundamentalists.

This Does Not Mean that I advocate driving all Christians into the ocean or anything similarly drastic. This means that The majority in this country, actual factual believing Christians, have got to take back their religion. If they don't even try, then they deserve my contempt and my ridicule as well.

Other things that would really help to keep Christians from being ridiculed:

Do something about priest buggering little boys. (Yeah, it's the Catholics, but they are a big part of Christianity. the first part, at that.)

Figure out exactly when the soul enters the body. We know it is before birth, but one loses credibility when one claims that a blastocyst is a human life.

When Creationists get vocal, intelligent Christians need to shout them down.

Stop trying to get books banned from the library. Stop trying to censor the internet. Make sure that people know that being Christian is about a choice to hold faith, not limiting the choices of others. What do you care if I go to Hell? If I tell you it is not your problem, you need to respect that.

OK, I have gone on a bit.

In summary, there is no actual increase in Christian Bashing. There is an increase in Fundie bashing because the most bloody problems of the world and this country are being fueled by fundamentalists of one stripe or another. Christians can actually take steps to further decrease manifestions of contempt by making sure that people know they are not fundies and by working to solve the problems that fundies cause and to stop them from creating more.

01-01-2004, 11:59 AM	#17 (permalink)
Tophat665 Minion of the scaléd ones Location: Northeast Jesusland	Sure, the particular scene you describe has the capacity to offend. So what? It's no one's right to not be offended. I am beginning to view the plaints of Christian bashing as just another effort on the order of the successful one that gave us the myth of a Liberal Media. Get over it. There are more Christians in this country than any other religion. Merely on a per capita basis, they should be criticized more often. Now, there are some very vocal, very organized Christian sects that have successfully gotten their members selected (elected or installed is not the argument I am making here. Save it for later) to be the highest officials in this country. This means that national policy will be shaped by fringe Christians, fundamentalists, people who are every bit as Christain as, say, Ariel Sharon. Still they call themselves Christians, even though they are actually Old Testament fetishists, and, by and large, those who are truly Christians - you know: faith is Christ, love thy neighbor, forgivenss is a virtue type people - don't get up in arms about this. Well, if one disgrees with the policy, then the Christian Fundies shaping our national agenda deserve one's opposition, the groups that they rode to power deserve one's anger, and the folks who actually believe in Christ who have let their faith be hijacked deserve one's contempt. Don't get me wrong, I despise Fundamentalist Muslims and Jews and Hindus every bit as much. Fundamentalist Jews block any move by Israel toward peaceful coexistance with the palestinians. And fundamentalist Muslims, well, they would largely like to see this country turned into a sheet of radioactive glass. It seems to me that fundamentalism is any religion is the same as mistaking the religion's metaphors for literal truth. So Fundamentalists are not going back to fundamentals; they are mistaking the symbol for the substance. Because of this it is not possible to argue with a fundamentalist. What is is written and that is all there is to it. One can kill fundamentalists, but then one goes to jail, and rightly. They're still people, if ridiculous people. The only viable option is to ridicule them at every opportunity. Now, in order to effectively ridicule Muslim and Jewish fundamentalists, one must set up the conditions that make them look unreasonable. Right now, American foreign policy does not do that. American foreign policy is, at the moment, controlled by Christian Fundamentalists. Therefore, as a matter of effect, the Christian fundamentalists must be ridiculed to the point of marginalization (or until they do something so grossly stupid that they can be locked up as a clear and present danger to the security of this country. One would think that advocating the Nuking of Foggy Bottom would have been enough to get that ball rolling, but low friends in high places and all that.) Once we get some leadership that is willing to see the world the way it is instead of just reading about it in the Bible, then we can start on marginalizing the rest of the fundamentalists. This Does Not Mean that I advocate driving all Christians into the ocean or anything similarly drastic. This means that The majority in this country, actual factual believing Christians, have got to take back their religion. If they don't even try, then they deserve my contempt and my ridicule as well. Other things that would really help to keep Christians from being ridiculed: Do something about priest buggering little boys. (Yeah, it's the Catholics, but they are a big part of Christianity. the first part, at that.) Figure out exactly when the soul enters the body. We know it is before birth, but one loses credibility when one claims that a blastocyst is a human life. When Creationists get vocal, intelligent Christians need to shout them down. Stop trying to get books banned from the library. Stop trying to censor the internet. Make sure that people know that being Christian is about a choice to hold faith, not limiting the choices of others. What do you care if I go to Hell? If I tell you it is not your problem, you need to respect that. OK, I have gone on a bit. In summary, there is no actual increase in Christian Bashing. There is an increase in Fundie bashing because the most bloody problems of the world and this country are being fueled by fundamentalists of one stripe or another. Christians can actually take steps to further decrease manifestions of contempt by making sure that people know they are not fundies and by working to solve the problems that fundies cause and to stop them from creating more. __________________ Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life. Last edited by Tophat665; 01-01-2004 at 12:03 PM..